[TCW]

Hi all,
I'm going to get my first bolt gun for killing paper targets! I think I've narrowed it down to these two calibers (I like the idea of short actions). It will probably be a standard barrel (not varmit)...but not sure. I don't hunt, but I could forsee using this gun in the unlikely SHTF senario. Mainly just want something besides my mini-14 for the range (my only oher rifle).

.308 sounds good for: the power and cheap ammo

.243 sounds good for: lighter recoil (not that I'm that sensitive, but it's a nice bonus)

...Or should I just get a CMP M1-Garand?

:)
Thanks,
TCW

[Art Eatman]

SHTF: Charles Whitman had a one-shot kill with a 6mm Remington at 420 yards, so I doubt there's any practical difference in your cartridge choices.

Both cartridges are known to have the potential to be "tack drivers". Back when my eyes weren't tri-focaled and my nerves were a tad steadier, I could regularly get 1/2" and 5/8" five-shot groups from my Sako .243 carbine. Many people are doing the same with .308s as well as .243s. Some are doing better.

I sorta like the little .243; heck, take up reloading. You can tailor your loads to your rifle, and it keeps you out of the beer joints at night.

Never been enamored of the .308, being a .30-'06 fella, but that's not important...:) For paper-punching, I sure don't see anything wrong with it.

Art

[chevrofreak]

Well, .243 has one of the flattest trajectories there is, and .308 is very common, ammo everywhere.

I'd probably go .308 because of all the decent milsurp ammo out there.

[lmccrock]

When the question is:
...Or should I just get a CMP M1-Garand?
the answer is always: Get the M1 :) :) :)

That was easy. Anyway, a gas operated 30-06 will feel like less recoil than a bolt action .308. .308 ammo can be had in a from downright cheap to ultra premium, so that would be my choice.

Lee

[Fumbler]

If you're only going to shoot factory loaded ammo then .308 has a wider variety, you can get surplus NATO for $5/20 and then you can get up into the $40/20 premium big game loads.

I think accuracy potential of both are close to the same.

If you handload then both cartridges can be more accurate than you (and your rifle) can shoot.

Would you ever use it for hunting?
If so the 243 would be a better varmint and medium game round while the .308 is a better medium to large game round.
You can buy factory .308 loads that exceed 30-06 performance (Federal High Energy and Hornady Light Magnum).

I picked the .308 for my hunting/range gun. I did it because there are few very long shots in NC and the .30 cal will bust through brush a little better. Also because 7.62NATO is so cheap.

If I was going to get a gun for just the range, my list of centerfire cartridges would be .223Rem, .308Win, .338 Lapua Mag, .300 Win Mag, and .50BMG.
Since I can't afford to shoot the .338 and up and the .223 is too small for deer I naturally chose the .308.

There would be absolutely nothign wrong with the .243, it's just not what I wanted.

[mustanger98]

Let's see here, .243 bolt, .308 bolt, CMP Garand... get all three and be done with it. Seriously.

1- .243 has a 2" mid-range trajectory at 200yds. My ballistics charts in the Hornady 5th Edition show trajectory to 500yds. I chose .243 because I'm planning to hunt with it.

2- .308 bolt: as was stated, has a lot of cheap surplus ammo choices, plus you can match load it.

3- a CMP Garand is always a good choice in my opinion. I like mine in '06. However, it was stated a '06 Garand will kick less than a .308 bolt. If you rebarrel a Garand to .308, it'll kick even less and still be accurate to 800yds.

[nipprdog]

It will probably be a standard barrel (not varmit)...but not sure. I don't hunt
then get the heavy barrel. you don't need something light to carry. (yes,I know you mentioned SHTF) and it will be more consistent with POI at the range, where you will be shooting several groups.

my caliber suggestion; 308. ;)

[varoadking]

Get a Garand alright - but skip CMP and get one built for you by Clayton Smith at West Texas Ordnance.

For $800.00 you get an all USGI M1 with new .308 Wilson barrel (or 30.06 if you insist), handrubbed Wenig stock (walnut or maple), and fresh park job.

http://groups.msn.com/WestTexasOrdnance/m1garand.msnw

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/varoadking/WTOSAGarand.jpg

[twoblink]

Blasphamy in 3...2...1...

Get an M1Garand in .308.

That way, you get a cool gun in a cheap ammo that's a tack driver, but allows for shooting of milsurp.

OR..

Buy a Mauser and rebarrel it in 308.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=1417748

With new barrels so cheap, I'd highly recommend it. Pick up a Mauser with a not go great barrel, rebarrel it, new stock, for $300, you've got a 308 Bolt that's a tack driver, strong action, and you can probably try to sell the old barrel to recoup a little bit of the cost. Poor man's Scout Rifle.
http://www.gunaccessories.com/ati/SyntheticStocks/MauserStk.jpg

[TCW]

Thanks for the replies! I guess another question on my mind would be what the effective range of .243 would be against two-legged foes.

Yea the garand is a consideration. I have the money to get either a cheap used bolt ($300 - internet) and a Yugo SKS ($200 - Turners) OR...

a $500 for a Garand.

All would be for range fun and self/homeland defense? And like I said, my only other rifle is a mini 14 ranch w/red dot.

[mustanger98]

I guess another question on my mind would be what the effective range of .243 would be against two-legged foes.

1- .243 has a 2" mid-range trajectory at 200yds. My ballistics charts in the Hornady 5th Edition show trajectory to 500yds. I chose .243 because I'm planning to hunt with it.

Okay, now at 500yds you'll have to know the trajectory which is 34.5". My suggestion would be to forget the scope. Really, you need to know the clicks up for the known distances from your 100yd zero (and you'll need to know how many clicks up from bottom for that). I'd recommend using a Lyman #57 or Williams FP and sight them in for 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, etc. I'll have to look at the ballistics tables for the actually ft-lbs/fps at those distances for a 100gr BTSP running 3000fps according to Hornady. To know anything past 500yds, I'm thinking you'll just have to play with it and find out.

[squirrelsniper]

I have both calibers, but if I could only have one, I'd go with the 308.

The 308 has enough power to take big game, plenty of good factory match ammo available, if you're stuck with factory ammo it is the superior choice for 1,000yd shooting and it has good barrel life. The only real downside is more recoil.

The 243 has a flat trajectory out to 500-600yds and can be made to work fine at 1,000yds but requires specialized handloads to do it. The downside is much shorter barrel life and it's not a good choice for larger types of game at extended ranges.

[kotengu]

I agree with the "squirrel" above. .308 is the way to go - you lose a BUNCH of barrel life with .243, along with downrange "power" (moot point if you're only shooting paper), and only gain a little flatter trajectory and a little less felt recoil.

Go with the .308, shoot it until the barrel wears out, learn your drops (you'll need to lear these no matter what caliber you shoot), and by the time you wear out your first barrel you'll just be starting to get good. If you go with the .243 you'll have to go through a few barrels to get good :)

[DigMe]

.308. Cheap ammo. You said you're recoil shy but I've never found the .308 to be a heavy recoiling round.

brad cook

[Art Eatman]

Trajectory is relatively unimportant when shooting paper at known distances. It's very important beyond 200 yards when hunting, if there's some doubt as to the exact distance to an animal.

A lot of folks can't "good eye" the difference between 300 and 400 yards. Problem is, the typical drop at 300 yards for a 200-yard zero is 6"; at 400 yards it's closer to two feet.

Art

[c_yeager]

They both have an excellent reputation as game stoppers. The .308 fires a heavier bullet and the .243 has better sectional density (penetration) but with proper bullet selection I think they are a wash when it comes to terminal effect.

They both have excellent potential for accuracy. .308 ammunition is cheaper and more readily available than .243. However if your going for maximum accuracy your looking at handloading and/or high end premuim ammunition which will probably negate a lot of the price difference. The trajectory for the .243 might be a bit more forgiving if you are shooting at unknown distances. But you can't really go wrong either way Get whichever one you like the most (gut instinct).

[twoblink]

I slide on a neoprene booty on the guns, and the 308 becomes really mild.

I never think a 308 with a barrel longer than 20" is a problem as far as recoil is concerned.

The 308 is the most versatile round there is, can't go wrong with a 308..