Need 1911 bushing help.


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clipse
December 21, 2004, 07:23 PM
Is this a problem?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/clipse/1911%20GI/MVC-003F.jpg

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Bill Z
December 21, 2004, 07:27 PM
Hopefully it's the lug on the bushing that is out of spec and not the slide itself. If so, fitting a new bushing will take care of it.

Is your accuracy suffering from this? I would imagine the bushing is moving with the recoil and motion of the slide and barrel. Either way, I would see if fitting a good bushing would solve this for you as at the very least you will have increased wear.

clipse
December 21, 2004, 07:32 PM
I have only shot about 75 rounds through this gun. And when I shot it, it was almost 20 degrees outside. I was shaking pretty bad and couldn't tell if it was me or the gun that was getting such bad groups.

clipse

Old Fuff
December 21, 2004, 07:44 PM
Field-strip the pistol and replace the barrel bushing without the barrel in place. Then wiggle the bushing to see if it is excessively loose in the slide. If so, it would be best to follow Bill's advise and replace the bushing.

You didn't mention the make and model of the pistol. This information could make a difference. It could also indicate what would be the best choice in picking a new bushing.

kart racer
December 21, 2004, 08:16 PM
is it a s/a gi?i saw one at the gun show almost identical,i was looking for my first 1911 and wondered what the deal was.

Mac's
December 21, 2004, 09:12 PM
I'm assuming that this is a used pistol?.......If so, you should also check for abnormal wear patterns on the inside of the bushing and the out side of the barrel. If it's been "running crooked", replacing the bushing may not improve the accuracy that much. You may have to replace the barrel too. Good luck and keep yer powder dry, Mac.

Mac's Shootin' Irons (http://www.shootiniron.com)
Tuff-Gun Firearm Finishes. The Name Says It All.

Jammer Six
December 21, 2004, 09:21 PM
Bill, how could the slide be out?

Isn't the slide what everything is fit to?

I'm not saying this very well, but isn't the slide what sets the baseline?

gamachinist
December 21, 2004, 10:18 PM
Jammer,
The slide could have been mismachined as easily as the bushing!

And from what I have been reading here lately,I'm not too sure anyone builds one right anymore! :banghead:

Guess I'll have to stick to my old USGI's and old Colts,I had an Auto Ordnace some time back that soured me on copies.

Robert.

1911Tuner
December 21, 2004, 10:37 PM
Hmmmm. Just to toss in another "possible" here...

The bushing is kicked out on one side. I'm gonna take a WAG and say that the bushing lug is a loose fit in its raceway AND the bushing to slide clearance is excessive. Maybe as much as .010-.012 inch.

Use a caliper to measure the bushing OD and the slide bore's ID to see what the difference is. If the slide bore is over .704 inch, you'll need an oversized bushing for a good fit...or a max dimension drop-in for an ordnance fit. MGW
drop-in bushings are .698-.700 OD and may give you what you want without going to a hard-fit bushing, which usually run to .705 or more. The drop-in bushing's ID averages .583-.584 inch, and generally provide a fairly good fit to most production barrels. Usually in the neighborhood of .003 inch clearance in battery position.

Standin' by...

macavada
December 21, 2004, 11:44 PM
Hey Tuner. That's what my DW looked like after I sent it back to the factory and it was "fixed". That is, until I had it fixed again.

1911Tuner
December 22, 2004, 12:04 AM
Marco...sssshhhh :scrutiny: We ain't supposed to mention that. :uhoh:




:D

Bill Z
December 22, 2004, 01:29 AM
Either part could be out of spec. but even if the slide is machined wrong, a good tight bushing will help greatly as it shouldn't let the bushing cant at that angle. Not much you can economically do to the slide.

Looks like the pistol has never even been holstered from the pic. If it's new, send it back to the manufacturer unless you can find a good local smith to fit a match bushing reasonably. Usually a factory gun can benefit from one anyhow.

Out of curiosity, how long is the bushing? Wonder if they put a commander/officer bushing in it to boot?

stans
December 22, 2004, 08:07 AM
I've seen bushings like that, usually it is just a way undersized bushing.

Some guns are built, others are "assembled". :scrutiny:

clipse
December 22, 2004, 10:18 AM
This is a brand new Springfield Armory GI fullsized pistol. Like I said, I have only shot about 75 rounds through it and I have had it for just a few days now. I did install the bushing in the slide with the barrel out and it was excessively loose. I will measure the OD of the bushing and the slide bore this weekend. (I really need to get a caliper) I am trying to figure out if I should try to get a new bushing or just send it back to SA. I really don't like the idea of sending a gun someplace so if I can do fix this with a new bushing that would be great. I don't really want this to be super tight. I intend on this being my carry gun not a match gun.

Thanks for all the advise. After I get the deminsions I will let you guys know wha they are.

clipse

Bill Z
December 22, 2004, 11:23 AM
Well, I'll get jumped for this as all of the consumer advocates will come crawling out of the woodwork and say that Springfield needs to make it right and them mumble something like it should have never left the factory that way, etc... Well, they are right about that, they should and it shouldn't have, however, let's be realistic. The only thing they are going to do is reach around in their parts tray and keep popping in bushing's until one fits better and ship it back. They are an assembler. You've got a great deal on a working firearm, you couldn't buy the parts to build one for double what they retail for. Unless you are just adament about them tossing in another 'drops-in-easily' bushing, you would be 'aggrivation' and accuracy ahead by having one fitted or fitting one yourself. A good bushing can be had for about 20.00, and with your dimensions you can just about find one that fits or have one fitted for about another 20-40 dollars depending on the local market.

GaryK
December 22, 2004, 12:12 PM
I had a similar problem with a Norinco. It wasn't as loose as yours but it was still looser than I wanted. The biggest problem with mine was that the ID of the bushing was ground oblong. I measured both the slide and barrel and then looked in Brownell's catalog to find the drop in bushing with the closest fit. In my case it was the Ed Brown bushing. I bought one and it dropped in and worked well.

clipse
December 22, 2004, 12:50 PM
I emailed SA about. I am going to see what they say. If they want the whole gun back then I will likely just get a bushing from Brownells and see if that works first. If the deminsions on the on the slide are too far off I will complain about that and send the gun back. Probably just send the slide back if that is ok with SA.

clipse

clipse
December 22, 2004, 02:15 PM
I just tried the bushing in an older (much older) Colt and the bushing was fine in it and the bushing from the Colt had the same problem in the SA as the original SA bushing.

clipse

45auto
December 22, 2004, 02:40 PM
I'd send that one back to Springfield.

clipse
December 22, 2004, 03:06 PM
I called them and the lady I talked to put me on hold and when she came back on she told me that they were supposed to be loose. :uhoh: I explained that it was excessively loose and she said she would have to talk to one of the tech's and get back with me. She hadn't and I had to go back to work. I'll call them back here soon.

clipse

Bill Z
December 22, 2004, 03:42 PM
In 1974 Chevy told me my Vega was supposed to rust.

clipse
December 22, 2004, 04:16 PM
I called them back. The lady told me again that the bushing was supposed to be loose. I then told her that the accuracy was suffering and I believed it to be the bushing. I then told her that if I was supposed to be getting 6 inch groups with this pistol at 7 yards then I would just take it back and use the money on a Colt. She told me that accuracy was supposed to be better than that and that I should send it in. I got and RMA # ( I have no idea what its for) and I will ship it off Friday. I have absolutely no idea what I am supposed to be doing here. Especially with the packaging. I suppose I will just put in the its box, include a letter and take to UPS and explain what I am doing. I think I remember that either I or they need to note that there is a firearm in the box. I will find out Friday. She said that I should send it in about the accuracy and just mention the bushing being loose. This is a little frustrating. I guess I should have noticed the bushing before I bought this pistol. Oh well. I keep you guys updated.

clipse

45auto
December 22, 2004, 04:19 PM
Ha, I had a 1972 Chevy Vega GT, fenders and cowl rusted out in 2 1/2 years.

stans
December 22, 2004, 06:41 PM
RMA # ( I have no idea what its for)

Returned Merchandise Authorization, or some such thing. It lets the receiver know that this item is expected. I expect UPS will need to know what they are shipping, they are real picky about firearms and I have heard horror stories about UPS agents not wanting to accept a firearm for shipment. I do think Springfield should take of this obviously out of spec issue. If it is a case of an undersized bushing, the fix is easy. If the inside of the slide was hogged out, then the fix is more difficult and there could also be problems with insufficient locking lug engagement in such a situation. If the slide was hogged out, they should opt to replace the slide.

Jammer Six
December 22, 2004, 07:28 PM
In 1974 Chevy told me my Vega was supposed to rust.

In 1974, they were.

That's what you get for buying a Vega. :D

Kruzr
December 22, 2004, 07:58 PM
To use SA's UPS number, you will have to go to a real UPS office and depot not a satellite UPS shipper. Don't tell SA that the bushing is loose, tell them it's in the slide crooked. Good Luck!

Jeff Timm
December 22, 2004, 08:38 PM
In the 1970's the paint companies made paint more environmentally friendly. It soaked up water like a sponge and held it against the metal. In 1980 a 1968 Ford truck was worth twice as much as a 1974 F-150.

Geoff
Who had a 1973 American Motors Hornet. <Puts on hearing protection from the loud laughter.> :cool:

Bill Z
December 22, 2004, 08:59 PM
Well Jammer, does that mean you get that for buying a Springer in 2004?

If the other bushing is off that much I would have to lean towards it being the slide out of spec, it's unusual but possible. This is one I would definately send back, print a pic and circle it and a pic of what one should look like, Maybe you'll make it in the next assemblers training manual. Don't let them blow you off on this one.

BTW, all's well that ends well with the Vega, maybe they'll transform you pistol too.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL14/878560/6030187/77510182.jpg

No, I don't own the Vega anymore and I am sworn off of racing(Repeat ten times and find a quiet place. )

Jammer Six
December 23, 2004, 04:35 AM
No, I don't own the Vega anymore and I am sworn off of racing(Repeat ten times and find a quiet place. )

Man, if you raced a Vega, I know why you swore off racing...
:D

clipse
December 29, 2004, 12:23 PM
I got it sent off last night. I'll let you guys know what they say when I call them tomorrow.

clipse

Kruzr
December 29, 2004, 03:47 PM
It used take a few days for SA to log in the guns they receive. When I sent mine back (not recently) I called the day after I got a delivery confirmation and they couldn't tell me if the gun was there or not, they said, call back in 2 days.

clipse
December 30, 2004, 10:22 AM
Well it got there at 9:40 yesterday morning. I'll call today just in case. :) then I wll probably have to call back monday.

clipse

clipse
January 5, 2005, 12:48 PM
I just talked to Megan at SA and she told me that they were going to take it back to the range Friday to see if they had fixed the problem and I should have it back in about two weeks. I will call again Monday to see for sure though.

Bill Z
January 5, 2005, 02:20 PM
How far away is thier range?

Kruzr
January 5, 2005, 02:39 PM
Springfield doesn't have their own test range. They told me that they rent space at a nearby range to test their guns. The range is outdoors and they said the weather dictates their testing schedule in the winter.

clipse
January 12, 2005, 01:41 PM
I just talked to Tracy and she said that after the range session yesterday they had deemed the pistol good to go. I should have it back by the end of the week.:D I'll let you know how looks and feels when I get it back.
clipse

BluesBear
January 14, 2005, 12:56 AM
Hey the performance of a 1975 Cosworth-Vega would suprise you.

Of course the words performance and Vega in the same sentence could be considered an oxymoron.

clipse
January 14, 2005, 03:58 PM
The saga continues.

Now appearently my pistol is either in TN and can't get out because of flight delays or its on a fedex truck becuase the driver said the street/driveway/sidewalk was to slick to deliver the package.

It started at about 9:30 this morning. I checked the tracking number on FedEx's website and it said that the package was in TN and the delivery time was expected to be 10:30 this morning. I waited untill 11:00 and when no package had arrived I called 1-800-GOFEDEX and after hitting the '0' button on the phone about 50 times I finally got a real live person. She said that the package was stuck in TN because of flight delays.

Fast forward one hour........

I go to lunch and see on the caller ID that a packaging company with a local number had called at 9:40 AM. I call the number and the lady takes my name and number and says she find out why they called and call me right back. Two minutes later I get a call back and the lay says that the driver reported that the either the road, driveway, or sidewalk was too slippery to deliver the package. Then she asks me for an alternate address. I start to give her my father-in-laws address then realize that his street, driveway, and walkway are alot worse than mine. So I ask if they could just hold the package there I'll pick up the package in the morning.


So now I'm confused. I'm guessing that they just really really got the tracking screwed up.

I'll find out in the morning.

clipse

Walter
January 15, 2005, 01:25 AM
I want to know what SA did to fix the problem.

Fifteen, maybe eighteen years ago, I bought an Auto-Ordnance 1911 A-1
from an ad in the Shotgun News for, I think, $240. I know it was a pretty good buy at the time. The only problem was the gun was a POS.

The mag catch stuck so far out into the mag well that it prevented cartridges from sliding out of the magazine into the barrel. Not that that mattered
anyway, because the barrel throat had tool marks in it so deep it looked like you could plant corn in the furrows. It cut grooves in the copper jacket of a
G.I ball round we tried to run through it.

I was furious and wanted to send the gun back, but my brother, the
gunsmith, the one who ordered it for me , talked me into exerting a little
time and effort into "fixing" the problems. So we spent probably two or three
hours with a set of needle files, and a Dremel tool, filing down the mag catch, and polishing out the tool marks in the throat.

That done, we went to the range and proceed to put three hundred rounds through the gun in about two hours. No failures to feed, eject, or fire.
I was pretty happy. I brought the gun home, cleaned it and put it away,
and it hasn't been fired since. I only bought it because the price was right,
and I figured I could always use a spare 1911.

I was lucky that my problems could be taken care of by myself and my
brother, the gunsmith. But then, my problem wasn't a badly milled slide,
which is what it looks to me like clipse's problem may be.

I just want to know what SA is going to do about this.

Walter
:)

clipse
January 15, 2005, 11:18 AM
AHHHHHHHHHH.

I went to fedex this morning. The package was my dads not mine.(we have the same name) I checked the tracking number and it is on the truck for delivery. I should find out what exactly they did to it as soon as I get it.

clipse

clipse
January 18, 2005, 10:40 AM
Well I got it back finally. It was sent with a test target. Here is a pic of the gun with the target.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/clipse/1911%20GI/target.jpg

If you only see four holes, thats because there is only 4 holes. They wrote on there that there was only four shots. Kinda strange in my mind.

I took it out and shot it yesterday and this thing is much more accurate than I am. I am really really likeing it now.

Bushing is still loose but they refit the slide to the frame. I was planning on getting an oversized bushing anyway so I won't worry too much about it.

clipse

Black Snowman
January 18, 2005, 01:27 PM
Good to hear they made it right, at least in the performance department. A fitted bushing probably won't help accuracy (since you said it's already better than you are :) ) but it should help reduce wear since it won't be rattling around in the end of ths slide.

cottontoptexan
January 19, 2005, 08:49 AM
Clipse,
Did the guy actually fire seven and only hit with 4. Just kidding. Nice gun . I have the 4" GI Champion. Good value in today's world. It appeared the bad slide to barrel fit just slipped through the factory. I guess with the number of guns an outfit like Springfield builds you will always have more defects. Just the law of averages.

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