[Lightsped]

Check here for an official announcement.

http://ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/News-12-23-2004.html

[Ohen Cepel]

Wonder what they are using them for?

Maybe their local security force. 5000 isn't many in the big picture. However, I'm happy to see that at least someone will be carrying an American made weapon!

Hope it goes well and we see a growth of our small arms industry again.

[coltjeeper]

http://ruger.com/Corporate/News-12-23-2004.html

[Spot77]

So will Ruger ship them with 10 round mags or do they assume that every soldier is "dishonest"????? :cuss:

[Blueduck]

Wow! Interesting.

Would rather have a new Ruger than a 15 year old Beretta with questionable mags myself, good for them.

[Blueduck]

Not sure if this counts as it's such a small order (5,000 units) but would this be the first Polymer Framed and first stainless steel pistol adopted by the US Army???

Edit:

Sorry about all questions. I'm just a bit excited about a U.S. Manufactured pistol bieng adopted :D (even in small numbers- maybe a good sign of things to come?). But any clues on the "custom polymer composite frame"? Maybe a "345" style frame that will be relased to the public soon???

[WT]

I'd guess its for the rent-a-cops at the gates of Army posts. I doubt Rugers will be used in real combat.

[MrMurphy]

Umm...... the M9 Beretta is made in the U.S. The initial batch wasn't... it's an Italian design, made in the U.S (like the Belgian M240 and M249 made here).

[George S.]

The KP95D should be an excellent performer for the military but I would like to hear where they are going. Replacements for front-line units? Rear areas?

It would be real interesting to see what the specs were for the order. The Ruger poly frame is rugged and I would have to think the stainless slide will hold up in combat use but I wonder if the slide will be darkened in some way? The Ruger stainless slide is duller than the typical revolver stainless finish but it would still be pretty bright.

It could be that the "custom" in the frame may be something like a picatinny rail :cool: or no "safety features" like the retail versions. And you can bet they will come with 15-round mags. Maybe we'll see 15-round mags available for the P95 series just like Ruger has for the P85/89!!

I certainly hope that this is just the first order for Ruger. It will be great to see that our taxpayer's dolllars are going to an American company and the money will stay here and hopefully create jobs. Beretta did build a factory in the US, but IIRC, that was part of the original military contract. The money from the purchases of the M9 still wound up going to a foreign corporation.

[Onmilo]

Rock Island eh?
I wonder if these are the new General Officers pistols??

[Blueduck]

Umm...... the M9 Beretta is made in the U.S.

Doh! your 100% right of course, meant an "American" company. I actually like Beretta's more than most. Just nice to see a change every 18 years or so ;)

[Zeke Menuar]

I had a P95. Unquestionably the worst POS firearm I have ever owned or even fired.

Another fine example of my tax dollars hard at work.

This is my opinion, your opinion may vary.

ZM

[Gary A]

I could be wrong but I took the reference to the "custom" frame to merely be going along with how Ruger has, I think, always described the frame of the P95. It is a Dow Isoplast but custom designed for Ruger specifications. Of course, Dow Isoplast is "custom" designed for a great many applications. It will be interesting to see if it is, in fact, a modified frame. I think they always call that frame "custom" polymer though.

[albanian]

"I had a P95. Unquestionably the worst POS firearm I have ever owned or even fired."

It is a rare thing to hear someone claim that Ruger autos are not reliable. What kind of problems did you have?

I had the same gun as in the article and I really liked it. It had a few things I didn't like but for a combat pistol, you could do a lot worse. the funny thing about that gun was, I could shoot it as well in rapid fire as I could in slow aimed fire. I would get fist sized groups in slow fire or rapid fire. It was very inaccurate in slow fire and very accurate in rapid fire. Weird. There are not many autos that I can shoot well in rapid fire so I considered it a fun and good combat type of gun.

If I were armed with a P-95, I wouldn't feel slighted in the least. There aren't many guns I would choose over the P-95 for possible rapid fire deployment. The Glock 19, 17, and Beretta 92G make the short list.

[JeffC]

BARF!

Maybe the army is preparing to train its own squad of "Mall Ninjas" :rolleyes:

American made??? The Beretta is American made...... Accokeek, Maryland.... I know it is a communist state but still, it is part of the U.S.A.

[George S.]

I found a copy of the contract on the TACOM website: https://aais.ria.army.mil/aais/award_web_05/W52H0905C0058/000000.pdf

It describes the requirements for the pistol and how the polymer frame is to be finished. And the Army paid just over $250 each for them :eek:

[Spot77]

Watch those Commie remarks! :neener:

[George S.]

Apparently they are going to tank units for the tank crews. Per the contract, they will be shipped with two 15-round mags.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=117304

The M9 is a version of the Beretta 92 series, and while American made, the original order for them came from Beretta in Italy and AFAIC, the money we pay for the current M9 still goes to Beretta, a foreign company. I believe the original contract for the M9 with Beretta required that a factory be built in the US to produce the M9.

[shep854]

A little jealousy/chauvinsim here? Kind of like the 1911 crowd in '85?

[Wakal]

Perhaps some folks still remember that Bill Ruger was behind the "magazine limit" push and vote with their wallets.

Or that Ruger semi-autos have absolutely horrible ergonometrics...high bore axis, generally poor balance, unwieldy controls...

Or maybe that Ruger still refuses to sell real-capacity magazines for some of their otherwise tolerable products.



AlexYesIOwnStockInRugerAndIVoteSoGetOffMeWakal

[cookhj]

it sounds like the army is buying them to test them against other pistols to replace the M-9.

[SpaceCowboy]

God forbid they ever reissue the 1911.
OOOOPS! Sorry don't hate me, someone had to say it.
There are better firearms that could be issued, but there are fare worse that could be issued as well.

So we can all put this to rest: Beretta=manufactured in the USA by American workers. But the money goes back to a foreign country. Difference between GDP and GNP.

[Gewehr98]

Rock Island eh? I wonder if these are the new General Officers pistols?
That duty has belonged to the M11 Compact Pistol, alternatively known as the SIG P228, since 1992. ;)

[NMshooter]

Was the P-85 originally considered a subsitute issue for the M-9? I know a lot of units did not get M-9 pistols for years.

[InfernoMDM]

I dont know about the Army but we had Glocks over in baghdad, well I didnt but many of the TCN watchers etc. Problem was the little ????ing unjammable gun jammed alot even with dry lube.

[papaone]

I love my KP95. When first developed, they ran, I think, 20,000 rounds of +P or +P+ through it and there was very little sign of wear. While I am a .45 ACP kind of guy, I have no complaints about this pistol. It was made to function like a combat pistol should (in toughness that is).
God bless our troops,
papaone :) :)

[PMDW]

Base guards at Kings Bay Naval Base in Georgia carry P95s. But I think the Navy contracted out a private company to guard it. Either way, the army could be using them for the same reason.

[Greg Bell]

God, what an awful choice. I guess we are getting desperate. Next we will be issuing Nambus or Volkspistols or something. :barf:

[Werewolf]

RUGER????
P-95's????

GAWD!!!

Might as well save some money and buy Hi-Points! :eek:

Yes - you're right - I absolutely, infatically, positively and most assuredly despise Ruger and it isn't because of their politics. They just make crappy handguns. I've never shot one I'd pay two cents for and to this day feel majorly ripped off by the two that I did buy (both at the same time). Do the letters POS ring a bell?

Our troops deserve better. Just one more example of our tax dollars going to WASTE! :banghead:

[papaone]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz :p

[Lone_Gunman]

Man, it would suck to be issued a Ruger.

[Spackler]

Man, it would suck to be issued a Ruger.

Wouldn't be so bad. I don't care much for them. I think they're ugly and cumbersome and cheap-y looking and feeling. But they WORK. I think most of them would feed a magazine full of rocks.

[Roland of Gilead]

Ruger doesn't sell hi caps? for what? I just got three new high caps for my mini-14 the other day, all stamped with Ruger logos. I think its BS that Ruger pistols aren't reliable. The only Ruger I've ever seen malfunction was a cop's gun, and from the looks of it, he took about as good a care of it as he did his patrol car. That is to say, not at all.
I didn't opt for Rugers in my 9mm pistols, I like to tinker, and Glocks were to great a platform to pass up, but when I get a .45 I will prolly get a Ruger, just cause I get one so much cheaper, and the P89s I 've shot have all worked flawlessly, just like my Glocks. When did a Ruger slide fracture and knock a SEAL's teeth out, and break his jaw? Oh wait, that was a Beretta 92! Both times! Oh yeah, Ruger did design their autos so poorly that a hard lick to the end of the barrel can require disassembly, or so that a skilled, and lucky person can remove the slide with one had while its pointed at them. Oh no, that was Beretta too! Now I think I see why Rugers suck so much!

[ojibweindian]

I had a P95. It's a good gun. Extremely reliable, if not pretty, and tough as hell. The one I owned was capable of 3 to 4 inch groups at 25 yards, off hand and slow fire.

The only complaint I ever had was that in hot and humid weather, the stainless slide was prone to a little rust. Regular oiling and that wasn't really a problem.

Actually, there was one other problem; I eventually became enamoured with the .357 and ditched the pistol and caliber in favor of a 586.

[George S.]

Ruger doesn't sell hi-caps for the Mini rifles, the 10/22 or (for now) the P-series in .40S&W or .45ACP. I thought I had read something about 12-rounder for .40's but I have not found it again.

While there have been rumor flying about public sale of 20-round LEO Mini-14 mags, we may not see them. There are a number of aftermarket hi-cap mags out and the ones I have work every bit as well as the factory Ruger 5-round mag.

Ruger does build a very rugged and dependable handgun. I don't think any other pistol manufacturer prints a statement like Ruger does in the operating guide concerning what ammo it will shoot:

The Ruger P-Series pistols are compatible with all factory ammunition loaded to U.S. Industry Standards, including high-velocity and hollow-point loads, loaded in brass, aluminum, or steel cartridge cases. No 9mm x 19, .45 ACP or .40 S & W ammunition manufactured in accordance with NATO, U.S., SAAMI, or CIP standards is known to be beyond the design limits or known not to function in these pistols.

[p35]

Why would they go with a decocker model? Isn't it kind of against Army tradition to use a weapon that can't be left on safe?

Remember when Beretta was having problems with the Army 92s breaking? Ruger did a demo in which they (1) screwed a bolt down the barrel of a p-series 9mm (don't recall which one) and then fired a NATO standard round in it, doing no damage beyond, I think, a bent ejector- they stuck a new barrel in and fired it some more, and (2) cut out one side of the slide at the ejector port and then fired something like 1000 rounds without a hitch. Tough, reliable weapons- just what the military needs.

[denfoote]

Man, it would suck to be issued a Ruger

Personally, I'd rather have a Ruger in my hand than the lame Italian Stallion!!! :neener:

I've had a P95 since just after they came out!!
I got mine in '97.
I've lost track of how many rounds are through it!!!
I guess all the postings about how Rugers are TANKS finally had a positive effect!! :D

[Daniel Watters]

W52H09-05-C-0058 is the Ruger contract.

The next contract number in sequence shows a $1,756,550 award to SIG Arms for the purchase of 5,000 SIG SP2022 pistols.

https://aais.ria.army.mil/aais/award_web_05/W52H0905C0059/000000.pdf

I suspect but cannot prove these purchases are related to the following RFP from TACOM posted earlier this month. Less than a week was given for replies. Selected parts of the solicitation are as follows:

Description of Requirement: 10,000 each 9 mm Pistols with 2 each High Capacity Military/Law Enforcement (LE) Magazines per Weapon for Standard NATO 9 mm (9 X 19 mm) Caliber.

All proposed pistols must contain the following salient features:

9 X 19 mm (NATO) Caliber
2 ea. 15 round Military/Law Enforcement (LE) High Capacity Magazines per Pistol
Length: 7" - 8"
Weight: 28 - 35 oz
Single/Double Action
Finish: Gray/Black/Blue Flat Non-Reflective
Manual Decock/Safety Capable.

ISO9001-2000 is a requirement for all offerors. Offerors must submit with its proposal a statement certifying that any and all proffered guns were manufactured or will be manufactured in a facility with an ISO9001-2000 quality system.

Offerors may propose on all or part of this total requirement; however offerors proposing less than the total requirement of 10,000 each 9 mm Pistols must propose quantity ranges in increments of 100 each with a price corresponding to each range. NOTE: The minimum quantity an offeror may propose for delivery is 100 each.

One or multiple awards may result from this solicitation.

Requirements call for a Certificate of Conformance (COC), Acceptance at Origin and F.O.B. Destination. Concerning transportation, offerors should include in their proposal a price for shipment to two possible destinations. The first price would be for the contractor's pistols to be shipped F.O.B. Destination to:

XR WOL7 Anniston Munitions Center
Trans Officer
7 Frankford Ave., BLDG 380
Anniston, AL 36201-4199.

The second price would be for the contractor's pistols to be shipped directly to Baghdad International Airport, Baghdad, Iraq.

Note that between the Rugers and the SIGs, this adds up to the requested 10,000 pistols. My bet is that these are going to the Iraqi National Guard or Police.

[Roland of Gilead]

Ruger doesn't sell hi-caps for the Mini rifles, the 10/22 or (for now) the P-series in .40S&W or .45ACP.

Maybe you didn't understand, I just bought three LEO 20 rd Ruger Mini-14 mags last week.
I never understood the problem with this anyway, Ramline makes great 30 round Mini mags, so did Thermold, I own one of each. Butler Creek and Ramline both make awesome 25 or 30 round mags for 10/22, I own two 25 round BCs and two 30 rd Ramlines. The only Ruger I've ever been unable to find good high caps for was a PC9 I had while the AWB was in effect. I traded it for the Mini, and IMHO got the great end of the deal.

[papaone]

Sig may be a nicer (?) pistol and have a better trigger than Ruger. But a Ruger will far outlast a Sig in endurance and hot loads fired. Does Sig put in their manual what Ruger does about ammo? :D :D

[bbrown609]

I just bought a Ruger P95. I haven't fired it yet because my wife said it was part of my Christmas. It is my first semiauto other than my Ruger Mark II .22. I have been a revolver man and still will use a revolver as my carry gun at all times. (This is another arguement that I don't want to get into at this time. I just trust the reliability of the revolver.) Since the assault weapon ban ended, I figured I "had" to get a semiauto. I researched handguns for a while and had a good many friends with different guns including the Ruger. I also spent a lot of time on www.rugerforum.com. The Ruger is not a pretty gun, but I came to the conclusion that it was one of the most sturdy and reliable pistols out there. I bought it because of its reputation for reliability and the fact that I had two other Ruger firearms for years that have never given me a lick of trouble. I hear a lot of people bashing Rugers and Mr. Ruger a lot. I don't think they understand the true mission of the Ruger pistol which is to simply work when the trigger is pulled. As far as bashing Ruger, at least they didn't totally sell out like Smith and Wesson did. I had to buy a Taurus Ultralight several years ago, because I refused to buy a Smith. I think Bill Ruger knew he made a mistake, and he worked hard after that to make amends.

[Onmilo]

I think Mr. Watters is correct.
From what I can read these appear to be pistols destined for Police or Guard use in Iraq.

[albanian]

I would pick a Beretta 92fs over any gun I have yet owned or fired. They just don't jam.

[Solo]

I would pick a Beretta 92fs over any gun I have yet owned or fired. They just don't jam.

:rolleyes:

[Man-O-War]

I owned a KP89D in the past. It was absolutely reliable for the many years I had it. Never had a malfunction of any kind. I sold it to a relative when I bought my KP95D. It has also never had a malfunction of any kind. Neither pistol is accurate enough to be a target pistol, but both are plenty accurate enough for combat. 4 inch groups at 15 yards, to point of aim day in and day out with any kind of ammo.

I did not like the politics of Bill Ruger at all. I do not like the politics and policies of the Ruger company today. I do not blame anyone who refuses to buy any products from them based on the company's distrust and disrespect for the law abiding citizen. However, the P series of pistols are VERY reliable and plenty accurate for the intended purpose. Sure the pistols are ugly but they are more ergonomic than one would expect.

As far as I am concerned, if I were in the military and was issued a Ruger pistol, I would feel very well armed. As a civilian I feel well armed with a Ruger. That said, I am not sure I would buy a new Ruger firearm in the future. They have treated the law abiding citizen badly in their efforts to maintain their bottom line. I like and trust the guns but do not like the company.

[Nightcrawler]

I'd guess its for the rent-a-cops at the gates of Army posts. I doubt Rugers will be used in real combat.

I resemble that remark.

And I'd rather have a new Ruger pistol, any day, than the old police-surplus Beretta 92 I'm issued, complete with worthless Check Mate brand magazine...

[albanian]

"And I'd rather have a new Ruger pistol, any day, than the old police-surplus Beretta 92 I'm issued, complete with worthless Check Mate brand magazine..."

Nightcrawler makes a good point. An abused and tired old Beretta with cheap mags is not the same thing as my Beretta 92FS that I own. Mine has shot every kind of ammo I have put through it and it has seen som minor abuse but it is kept at least somewhat clean and it has not been owned by a dozen different idiots like some of the issue M-9s. God only knows what some of the new soldiers get up too when they are given a pistol for probably the first time in their lives.

It is like giving a BMW to a series of teenagers over the course of several years. After a while, it is not going to be "The Ultimate Driving Machine" anymore. :neener: Lets compare apples to apples. I would take a NEW Beretta 92 over just about any other auto that I can think of. If we are talking about beat up old war horses, then you can't expect much.

[MacPelto]

Sig may be a nicer (?) pistol and have a better trigger than Ruger. But a Ruger will far outlast a Sig in endurance and hot loads fired. Does Sig put in their manual what Ruger does about ammo?

I don't know what Sig manuals say, but aren't a bunch os the new Sig parts (slides, etc.) made by Ruger?

Mac

[cxm]

Some guys in the loggie community say the buy is for the Iraqi National police...

For them the Ruger should be nearly as good as the local Beretta 51 clones... maybe as good.

The Army will probably dump all the phased out M9 Berettas in Iraq as well when the 1911s .45s start coming back. :)

Sooner we get rid of 9mm the better off we will be.

/r

Chuck

[MatthewVanitas]

I've gotten a bit lost in the thread, from the changes to "for tanker units" to "for rent-a-cops" to "for Iraqi security forces". I'm more inclined to believe #3 over the others, but perhaps the folks more in tune with the process can explain?

Regarding replacing Iraqi gear: I would quite happily take a new Ruger over a Tariq (Iraqi ripoff of the Helwan, which is a ripoff of the 1951 Beretta). The Tariq is Single Action Only, and has a really, really funky safety (to American eyes). I believe we call it a "crossbolt" safety, like on an 870 shotgun. It's placed in the middle of the grips, slightly above where the hand rests. If I recall right, you press in from the right for fire, press in from the left for safe. The fit and finish on the Iraqi-marked Tariqs was pretty rough, but they seemed solid. Single stack mag, maybe nine round capacity. Last I saw, Iraqi cops were getting new Glock 19s, and Iraqi Border Patrol was getting refurbished Berettas 92s (not sure the name of the variant, but it's the European one with the heel mag release). Last I knew, Iraqi National Guard had no issue pistol (which ticked them off), so we gave them a motley collection of confiscated Tariqs (their preferred choice), FN High-Power (the status-symbol pistol of Iraq), Makarov, and Llama.

So, some pistols go to Alabama, some go to BIAP. But who will they end up with? Is any other company also involved in similar shipments?

[OEF_VET]

MV,

I think the people espousing the idea that these pistols are designated for tankers are confused by the fact that they are being bought by the Army's Tank automotive and Armaments Command. Those folks most likely just don't know that TACOM buys all weapons and vehicles for the Army, not just DAT's (Dumb A$$ Tankers for those who are unaware). I'd be inclined to believe these are, in fact, destined for the ING.

[MatthewVanitas]

Thanks OEF! Sure someone with some procurement knowledge would drop by on the topic. I confess a shameful lack of logistic savvy.

If this is, indeed, going to be the new ING pistol, it'll be interesting to see how the three pistols (Glock 19, Beretta 92, Ruger 345) stack up in their respective services. I'm inclined to believe that, at least initially, the Border Guards will be envied for their Berettas. The Iraqis I knew had a distrust of the Glocks due to the plastic, and would presumably have the same concerns regarding the Ruger. I think they believed that cheap plastic pistols were being foisted on to them by uncaring Americans. Additionally, the Beretta 92 was easily accepted by the Iraqis because it had the distinctive cut slide also seen on their Iraqi-made Tariq pistols. So, it'll be interesting to see if these go to the ING, or to some other type of ISF unit (Customs Police, Iraqi Air Force, Kurdish Home Guard, or whatever new units they're creating these days).

-MV

[Island Beretta]

I am very surprised by the bad mouthing the Rugers are getting.. but then again, I have been getting a lot of surprises recently on this Forum.. :barf:

[pezo]

Do any of us remember Bill Ruger backed the magazine capacity llimit? Yes but Bill Ruger is also dead. The Sturm Ruger company is not! they make very reliable and yet cost efficient weapons.

[shep854]

I was able to handle both the P95 and P345 today, and they seem to be good pistols. I concur about Rugers; pull trigger, go bang, and put holes much closer together than most shooters. I'm old-fashioned, though. I like the looks of the P85 and P90, as well as the metal frame.

[Gunnutz13]

I personally own three Ruger firearms...the P89DC ( decocker ) in 9mm, a Security Six in .357 magnum, and my most recent purchase, a Vaquero Bisley in .357 magnum. All three weapons are built like tanks...shoot when I pull the trigger, and hit what I aim at...all that I ask of a firearm. The first two were bought used from a friend...who was selling them for better than half the original price...to get cash for a new purchase. As someone already mentioned, back in '84-'85 when the military was conducting trials to replace the 1911a1 service pistol, Beretta won the contract even though there were slide failures. Part of that contract stipulated that the firearm had to be made in the US, so that if another shootin war ( WWIII...not the police actions like Somalia, etc ) broke out, our military would not have to worry about new guns to keep up with the demand or replacement parts for their existing stock. The M9 has served with honor since that time, even though most of the military elite forces went back to the 45 in leiu of the 9 for the obvious tactical advantages ( please...no 45 vs 9 flame war threads ). The M11 Sig has also proven it's self worthy in the hands of our brave fightin' forces. I don't think that any one issued a Ruger would be ill served ! :evil:

[Grampa]

Well, the P89 was good enough for Section One...


(Just watched Season 1 of Nikita)

[Brigrat]

I have carried Beretta's, Old Colt 45's, Glock's, and Ruger P95's in either the USMC, or Nuclear Security. My Ruger P95 was by far the most reliable of the bunch. I have carried my P95 when it mattered, and I would never doubt its abilities. I tend to carry my GLock 23 now, because I get free .40 ammo from work, but if not for that, my P95 would go with me everywhere.

[Caliburn]

What about a P series Ruger is so ugly? It's big, yeah, definitely a full sized service weapon rather than a CCW piece. What else? The grip feels about right to me for a double stack mag, and all the controls are convenient, easy to use one handed. (My hands are pretty big though.)

So what's ugly? It doesn't have the classic lines of a 1911 or Browning Hi Power (or Luger or...) but compared to other modern full-size service sidearms I;m not seeing any unattractiveness at all. Glocks are certainly no prettier. S&W autos are ugly (they even F'ed up the 1911 with that huge billboard on the side!), SIGs aren't very pretty either. The new Springfields look pretty futuristic but I wouldn't say they're pretty.

What's so fugly about them?

[Lobotomy Boy]

The reason people call them "ugly" is because they have to dig to find a way to put down a gun that functions almost perfectly all the time yet costs half of what they paid for their "pretty" gun.

[halvey]

What about a P series Ruger is so ugly? Same can be said for the revolvers. I've never found a Ruger revolver to be ugly.

[45auto]

Well, it's good news that an american company got the business for a change.

I understand S&W is coming out with a new "pistol" also that could compete with the wonderplastics.

It's about time.

[pezo]

Ruger revolvers dont look ugly , they just look strong. and they live to they're image. :)

[carebear]

The old P95 slides looked like pot metal to me, Very "functional" but ugly, rough finish. They were kinda lumpy, and felt "thick" compared to many pistols of the same calibers.

Ruger revolvers (except the .22 SA's and the Speed and Security Sixes) don't fit my hands well and they seem overbuilt and heavy compared to Smiths in the same calibers.

It is 90% aesthetic for me, the other is "fit" to my hands.

Wouldn't feel poorly armed with any, just wouldn't pay any money for one.

[45auto]

Concerning looks, and it's not important, I don't think Ruger would win the "ugly contest" next to a Glock, Sig or H&K.

[Desert Dog]

Concerning looks, and it's not important, I don't think Ruger would win the "ugly contest" next to a Glock, Sig or H&K.
Of your choices here, only the H&K is better looking than my P90, IMHO.

I find it interesting that most people who shun or flame Ruger pistols have never fired one over any length of time.


And for the Beretta guy, try this in your 92... put an empty cartridge case in the magazine, put the magazine in the weapon and try to chamber the empty case. My Ruger will do it everytime. It will even eat wadcutters without a hitch... Try that in your Italian special...

There, I feel better now. :neener:

[bnolsen]

I fired a couple of ruger semi autos. I think P89's. One friend has a 9mm the other a 10mm. One thing I never seemed to like about them was that they seemed to feel "sloppy" compared with other pistols I've fired. Like something was loose rattling around or something. Hard to describe.

[Lobotomy Boy]

I'll bet that "10mm" was real loose and sloppy.

[carebear]

That'd probably be 10mm Corto. ;)

[DT Guy]

Bill Ruger is, indeed, deceased. (RIP)

His company STILL refuses to sell rifle magazines that hold more than 10 rounds to mere civilians.

You spend your money where you want. I have too little 'gun money' to spend it on companies that don't trust me with large capacity magazines, so I don't.


Larry

[Cosmoline]

Great. But who buys Ruger PISTOLS!? That's like buying cheese from Florida and oranges from Wisconsin. Technically it's possible, but it makes little sense. They should have admitted the 9mm was a grave mistake and bought GP-100's for the tank crews!

[Island Beretta]

FWIW and FTI, The Iraqis have used a Beretta clone for years and they have functioned quite well, even in the sand.. hence their preference for the Beretta.

[BrokenArrow]

Looks like the Army wanted 10,000 pistols cheap and fast. Emphasis on the cheap and fast, not best, since no testing was done and they split it 5000 Ruger P95s and 5000 SIG sig pros (their cheapest gun).

Since we paid even less for the M9s we have, I guess they didn't want to part with any, had none to part with, or couldn't get any more as cheap... ;)

[fistful]

infatically Emphatically, please, emphatically. As in "emphasis."

[foghornl]

While Rugers are not the most AP {Aesthetically Pleasing} handguns around, they will always go BANG! when you need it. The KP-90 is a lot wider than the 1911-A1 Springy (got a pic of those side-by-side, somewhere ? ? )

Hmmm...

Looking in Foggy's Artillery Cabinet, I see a Ruger KP-90, "Sheriff's Model" .357 Vaquero, 50th Year Single Six, NRA Commemorative MK 2, Bull Barrel 22/45, Blackhawk .45 Colt, and a 40th Year 10/22. So, I must be sort of a Ruger fan.

[RON in PA]

I would suggest that no one on this forum or on any other gun forum that I read really knows what is going to be done with either the Rugers or the SIGs. All is speculation.

[carebear]

I would suggest that no one on this forum or on any other gun forum that I read really knows what is going to be done with either the Rugers or the SIGs. All is speculation.

What is going to be done with either the Rugers or the SIGs = All speculation
All speculation = Internet Fun

Therefore:

What is going to be done with either the Rugers or the SIGs = Internet Fun

[BrokenArrow]

I would suggest that you do not know what everyone on this forum or any other gun forum that you read really knows?

But I speculate your speculation is less specualtive than some... ;)