Misconceptions of Military Service


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Jorah
December 30, 2002, 06:54 PM
I've found it common for people to think that everyone who has been in the military has had combat training.

I was in the Navy, and got some stock control training, and a lot of OTJ training as a Mop Jockey.

In Starship Troopers all troopers were fighters; I've heard that the Marines say that "every Marine is a rifleman... (OWTTE)" and I think those are good ideas.

In the Navy, the closest thing you could say to that was "every sailor is a fireman," being as there ain't nowhere to run when things catch on fire.

What other assumptions have you noticed about military service or about people who have been in the service?

-J.

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Jmurman
December 30, 2002, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by Jorah
I've found it common for people to think that everyone who has been in the military has had combat training.

I was in the Navy, and got some stock control training, and a lot of OTJ training as a Mop Jockey.

In Starship Troopers all troopers were fighters; I've heard that the Marines say that "every Marine is a rifleman... (OWTTE)" and I think those are good ideas.

In the Navy, the closest thing you could say to that was "every sailor is a fireman," being as there ain't nowhere to run when things catch on fire.

What other assumptions have you noticed about military service or about people who have been in the service?

-J.

As an ex Air Force, Viet Nam era. Most people thaink that we are all drones...non thinkers, you know?

Pilgrim
December 30, 2002, 07:26 PM
I've run into people who thought that because I flew jet aircraft I was in the Air Force, even though I flew off of aircraft carriers.

I've argued with people who thought that service members didn't pay income taxes.

I've even met people who thought when we went to the commissary we received free food.

El Tejon
December 30, 2002, 07:30 PM
I believe that in the gun culture the biggest misconception is that everyone in the militree is some sort of crack shot. I can tell you that's not true.:D But just watch me dial a phone.;)

Bullshooter
December 30, 2002, 07:51 PM
Sorta the same thing, when I tell people I was in the Navy during Vietnam they immediately think I spent my time riding a haze gray ship. When I (seldom) try to explain that I was in the Seabees and spent three tours in northern I Corps building roads, bridges, air strips and SEA huts, they get the familiar glazed look, kinda like they're wondering what to have for lunch.

Boats
December 30, 2002, 07:57 PM
Ironically, I have found one misconception to be that no one but the SEALS receives any combat training in the US Navy.

Far from Jorah's experience, I got to handle firearms extensively while in the Navy from 85-89. First of all, things happened after I got my crow for Boatswain's Mate Third. The smaller a ship's crew is, the more generalist its crew needs to be and there are likely to be no Marines aboard. Because I served on a destroyer, and because my weapons officer liked me, I was on the ship's reaction force and qualified to stand armed roving patrol. This watch and reaction force position got me acquainted with the M1911 and the Remmy 870.

When we were assigned to go on a WestPac in '86 and again in '88, we were ordered by CINCPAC to form a ship's contingent for dynamic boarding of suspicious vessels and whatnot in the Persian Gulf. We trained in basic small unit tactics with the 25th Infantry Div. at Schofield Barracks Hawaii. We got fatigues and the whole nine yards, playing with blanks and MILES gear against some of their troopers, but using M-14s instead of 16s. We routinely got killed in the beginning, but then given a clean bill of health when we could hold our own against them after a few weeks.

We also got introduced to MaDeuce because we were mounting some dual rigs to our ship to tag Iranian motorboats.

The training was nice, and I still remember many of the hand signals for small unit tactics and know the basic formations and maneuvers. However, all we ever really shot with small arms were magnetic mines. We did get some .50s onto some Iranian motorboats

piccolo
December 30, 2002, 09:12 PM
One assumption made by a personnel guy at a Tugboat outfit is that EVERYONE in the Navy knows EVERYTHING about working on the water.

He'd hire ANYONE that had been in the Navy with pretty sad results.

It never occurred to him that he'd hired, for example, a Hospitalman that had spent his entire hitch with FMF, or some guy that had been a clerk stationed in Crane Depot in Indianna for 4 years. After all, didn't the Navy teach their guys everything about the water?

He also hired retired career guys that had a VERY hard time adapting to the way civvies do things. A lot of the guys took savage and perverse satisfaction watching one retired Chief get the pomposity knocked out of him on an almost daily basis.

Oddly enough, the HM turned out fine.
The clerk quit and got a job on the beach
It took the Chief a few years of sheer hell, but he finally turned out all right.

The personnel guy finally saw the light and lerned to ask the simple question: WHAT DID YOU DO IN THE MILITARY?

HABU
December 30, 2002, 09:42 PM
I have heard that in order to be accepted into the Coast guard, one needs to be at least six feet tall.


In case the boat sinks!:D :D

Hkmp5sd
December 30, 2002, 09:52 PM
1. Submarines have windows so you can see out.

2. Submarines have headlights to see where you are going.

3. If the Submarine sinks, the DSRV will come and rescue you from the bottom. (The bottom is a lot deeper than crush depth in most of the world's oceans)

4. That a submarine can stop and sit on the bottom. (Go to a beach at the ocean and stand in the water a few feet deep for a couple of minutes, then try to move. Plus, all suction and discharge piping are on the bottom of the sub)

5. That US surface ships can track US Submarines. Nope. No way. Uh-uh. Not in this lifetime. Never Happened. We actually installed "noise makers" on the boat to allow surface ships to track us during excercises.

6. That US submarines do not enter the territorial waters of foriegn nations without permission.

NewShooter78
December 30, 2002, 10:03 PM
I've heard a few growing up in a military family, but with all my friends being in civvy families. Most have to do with people not knowing just how active the Coast Guard really is.

Betty
December 30, 2002, 10:21 PM
misconception: Some college kids who join the military to pay for college think they're getting the money for free.

I remember a TV crew interviewing some anti-war college army reserves during Desert Storm, and the college kids were saying, "I joined the military for the scholarship money, not to fight. I'm not going to fight."

Ummmmm. :rolleyes: When you sign your butt over to Uncle Sam.....

Jorah
December 30, 2002, 10:52 PM
Far from Jorah's experience, I got to handle firearms extensively while in the Navy from 85-89.

Boats: I was on a sub tender, so that would explain a lot of the difference. There were guys on my boat that did weapons... the nuke guard team. We had subrocs below decks.

One night, I was quietly waxing the mess deck and this very agitated squad of guys with carbines, .45s, and shotguns, all wearing underwear, came charging in, told me to STAND STILL (I did) and then did a very graceful entry into the weapons storage area under the mess deck. Very impressive.

Turned out to be an unannounced drill, but they didn't know that, as far as I know. They looked very worried and very competent.

-J.


PS: runt, you are so right...

sm
December 30, 2002, 10:58 PM
Dad spent 35 + years in Army National Guard.

have heard "Weekend Warriors , don't /can't do squat"

OK- I can't tell you what he did those times he was Federalized, gone along time,didn't know if and when he'd back...I do know he wasn't sitting around on his duff.

Zundfolge
December 30, 2002, 10:59 PM
Another big misconception about current and former military is that they are all pro gun, conservatives/constitutionalists.

Some of the biggest blissninny socialists I've ever met wear the uniform of one of our armed services. :(

HSMITH
December 30, 2002, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by Boats
Ironically, I have found one misconception to be that no one but the SEALS receives any combat training in the US Navy.

Far from Jorah's experience, I got to handle firearms extensively while in the Navy from 85-89. First of all, things happened after I got my crow for Boatswain's Mate Third. The smaller a ship's crew is, the more generalist its crew needs to be and there are likely to be no Marines aboard. Because I served on a destroyer, and because my weapons officer liked me, I was on the ship's reaction force and qualified to stand armed roving patrol. This watch and reaction force position got me acquainted with the M1911 and the Remmy 870.

When we were assigned to go on a WestPac in '86 and again in '88, we were ordered by CINCPAC to form a ship's contingent for dynamic boarding of suspicious vessels and whatnot in the Persian Gulf. We trained in basic small unit tactics with the 25th Infantry Div. at Schofield Barracks Hawaii. We got fatigues and the whole nine yards, playing with blanks and MILES gear against some of their troopers, but using M-14s instead of 16s. We routinely got killed in the beginning, but then given a clean bill of health when we could hold our own against them after a few weeks.

We also got introduced to MaDeuce because we were mounting some dual rigs to our ship to tag Iranian motorboats.

The training was nice, and I still remember many of the hand signals for small unit tactics and know the basic formations and maneuvers. However, all we ever really shot with small arms were magnetic mines. We did get some .50s onto some Iranian motorboats

I had the same basic experience a few years later on the east coast. I was the ships armorer though, and rangemaster.

Wakal
December 30, 2002, 11:23 PM
All Air Farce types are pilots.

Umm....no, they go fly over enemy airspace and get shot at while I stay in the back and drink beer. That is why we pay officers more :D





Alex

Gewehr98
December 30, 2002, 11:38 PM
If you're military, and somebody finds out in the course of a conversation, they assume you know everybody else in the military. "Hey, you're in the Air Force, do you know so-and-so stationed at Yokota AB, Japan?" Yeah, sure. Saw him just last week. He says "Hi!". :banghead:

UnknownSailor
December 31, 2002, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by Boats
Ironically, I have found one misconception to be that no one but the SEALS receives any combat training in the US Navy.

Far from Jorah's experience, I got to handle firearms extensively while in the Navy from 85-89. First of all, things happened after I got my crow for Boatswain's Mate Third. The smaller a ship's crew is, the more generalist its crew needs to be and there are likely to be no Marines aboard. Because I served on a destroyer, and because my weapons officer liked me, I was on the ship's reaction force and qualified to stand armed roving patrol. This watch and reaction force position got me acquainted with the M1911 and the Remmy 870.

When we were assigned to go on a WestPac in '86 and again in '88, we were ordered by CINCPAC to form a ship's contingent for dynamic boarding of suspicious vessels and whatnot in the Persian Gulf. We trained in basic small unit tactics with the 25th Infantry Div. at Schofield Barracks Hawaii. We got fatigues and the whole nine yards, playing with blanks and MILES gear against some of their troopers, but using M-14s instead of 16s. We routinely got killed in the beginning, but then given a clean bill of health when we could hold our own against them after a few weeks.

We also got introduced to MaDeuce because we were mounting some dual rigs to our ship to tag Iranian motorboats.

The training was nice, and I still remember many of the hand signals for small unit tactics and know the basic formations and maneuvers. However, all we ever really shot with small arms were magnetic mines. We did get some .50s onto some Iranian motorboats

Agreed. What "combat" training you receive in the Navy varies greatly with what rate you are, and what ship or shore station you're at.

For instance, the Gunner's Mates I work with, get to shoot all the time. As for myself, I can count the number of times I've gotten trigger time on the government's dime on one hand.

Of course, I'm just a brown shoe, so what do I know. :D

Hkmp5sd
December 31, 2002, 02:12 AM
What "combat" training you receive in the Navy varies greatly with what rate you are, and what ship or shore station you're at.

That's for sure. Our total firearm training in boot camp consisted of firing six rounds through a worn out 1911. We receieved better training once assigned to a submarine so we could "repel boarders." Once we started carrying nuclear weapons, we got some pretty good training.

One thing I remember distinctly, even after all of these years, if someone takes hostages and tries to use them to hold you at bay while they messed with nuclear weapons, shoot everybody.

UnknownSailor
December 31, 2002, 02:30 AM
Hey, at least you got to use a genuine 1911. I had to use the Ace .22 LR knockoff, that jammed every 5th round.

I hear that they use rifles now, and even award the rifle ribbon if you qualify expert.

Redlg155
December 31, 2002, 02:46 AM
I don't know about the other branches of services but in the Army EVERYONE is a "grunt" sooner or later. You may ride a fancy tank or hummer into battle, but chances are you just might be walking back. :D

Instant "Grunt"

Good Shooting
RED

Nightcrawler
December 31, 2002, 02:54 AM
That if the military uses it it must be the best gear around.

Had a fellow in Basic simply insist- insist! ...that the USGI kevlar helmet would stop a .50 Browning round, but it would still kill you because it would break your neck.

Of course, helmet or no, if you take an M2HB round to the head your noggin isn't going to be there anymore.

Our drill sergeants (a couple of them) insisted that the kelvar helmet would stop a rifle round. From tests I've seen, this is a falsehood.


Another one: that everyone in the military is some kind of lethal killing machine. I'm in the National Guard, right? I had a kid ask me "you could kick my ***, then?".

I replied "yes", of course. I had all of four hours of hand-to-hand training in basic, which even the drill sergeants admitted was just enough to get your butt whooped in a fight.

But the way I see it, I agree with what my senior drill, SFC Hemmingway, said. Something to the effect of that if somebody's giving you trouble, you don't take them on one on one. You go get Bubba, you go get Leroy, and you beat 'em down. :cool:

Bob A
December 31, 2002, 06:19 AM
That all Marines are stupid.

That all Marines are tough.

That basic training teaches you how to fight/kill. (It did teach me to shoot a rifle, but mostly how to march, iron a uniform, polish boots and be yelled at by everybody who had something on their sleeve or collar)

That if you are military, you get loans for cars/jewelry/stereos and such from the government, or that these things are free.

That you can go to college in your "off time"

That you will receive "valuable training" for a future job on civie street

That if you are "only a Corporal" you didn't have anything valuable to add

That the Marine Corps does everything better than the Army

That the MC is part of the Navy. It's in the Department of the Navy. the Men's department :D

That polishing a scuttlebutt (water fountain) and it's supply and drain pipes has a legitimate military purpose

That it is important to train the way you fight, just so you can go to war and find out that you do everything differently because there's a "war" and we are under combat conditions. I can't tell you how many dummies almost got shot coming through our positions at night with lights on because they never trained driving tactical vehicles with blackout lights. Ditto for NVGs and PVS4s because the batteries were expensive.

That chow sucks no matter where you are. The Navy, Air Force and Army all ate better during Desert Storm than we did at Camp Lejeune in garrison. :(

That the guys in Supply/Motor T./Admin/Cooks have easy jobs. These guys get to do all the grunt stuff, then work 60 hours at their MOS while the grunts go on liberty. That and all these jobs promote slower also. :mad:

That Reservists are not real Soldiers. Huh! I had D Battery, 2d Battalion, 14th Marines with my unit in DS. These guys were awesome. Good morale, good leadership, and well trained. Not as proficient at first as the AD troops, but much better discipline and initiative. Ditto for my own reserve unit later on. I guess the difference is that they want to be there.

That once you get out the VA will help you get a house, and take care of your medical needs.

That it matters to somebody that you have ever worn a uniform.

That all military people want to overthrow the government and institute a dictatorship.

That they all want to go to war also.

That you only go into the military if you can't find a job

That civilian employers know what a DD214 is or what it means.

That all troops in combat get to sleep in portable buildings, have real toilets and get warm meals and showers every day.

That just because the Navy put you on the USS G.W. which is 300 miles from the MLR, you are safe.

That an Airman who is safely in the rear with the gear is in no danger (even though a large amount of that "gear" is high order explosive ordinance made by the lowest bidder, and damaged planes come back to the base to land. ... or crash)

But the absolute worst is that these poor slobs will ...

... go do what silliness it takes to earn the uniform they chose,
... be sent off to train for and possibly make war,
... face death from hundreds of different ways,
... be separated for days, weeks, and months at a time from their families who often qualify for food stamps so the rest of this wonderful country can sleep at night without worrying about anything more important than the Jerry Springer show, not asking for recognition or reward...

and do it all knowing that most people never even notice, much less say "thank you."

I am ashamed to say that this is the first Christmas since 1986 that I forgot to add in my prayers the members of our armed forces who cannot be with their families.

Hkmp5sd
December 31, 2002, 06:31 AM
That all Marines are stupid.
That all Marines are tough.

That's not true? :) I know a fellow that was a marine stationed in Japan during the '60s. He got busted for unauthorized absence a few times and wound up with 30 days in the brig at hard labor.

He says that after banging on this rock with his sledgehammer a few times, he walked over to the guard, set the hammer down and informed him he'd have to find something else for him to do because busting rocks was too hard.

Apparently the guard had never had this occur before because he stood there with his eyes popping out. After they discussed it among themselves, the guards provided this fellow with a little physical persuasion involving his head and their feet, after which he was allowed to remain in his new cell for a few days. The new cell was rather poorly furnished, containing nothing but a concrete floor and tin walls with an overall size of about 30 cu. ft.

This fellow was a marine, dumb and tough.:)

KMKeller
December 31, 2002, 08:14 AM
My experience was the same as boats, except I went to "Rambo" school (SSEW/SSET). Assigned to the reaction force and got to be the team leader for the six man entry team. I think boats probably had more intense training than I, but I guarantee mine was just as fun! :D

I think one of the biggest misconceptions is the advertising. Join the Navy, see the world!?! Join the Navy, see the third world. It's not just a job, it's an adventure!?! It's not just a job, it's an indenture.:uhoh:

I did have a bit of fun though. It was most definitely, not what I expected.

444
December 31, 2002, 08:47 AM
That during WWII, the Marine Corps. had a corner on the amphibious landing market. And that the Marine Corps. did all the hard fighting and then the Army came in to act as an occupying force.
When I hear this BS I birng up the little landing that occured on June 6, 1944. And all the events in the Europeon theatre after that.

telewinz
December 31, 2002, 09:10 AM
Some parents in my age group are still anti-military citing their experience (or lack of) with the Vietnam War. Mind you NOT ONE served in the military and have first hand experience, they just view the military and government as untrustworthy.

Leatherneck
December 31, 2002, 10:12 AM
spent three tours in northern I Corps building roads, bridges
Hey! I flew 412 missions blowin' that stuff up! Maybe we should coordinate...:D
TC
TFL Survivor

Sean Smith
December 31, 2002, 11:00 AM
Anything involving military intelligence (my old job).

Half the people crack jokes about "military intelligence" being an oxymoron.

Half the people think you are claiming to be James Bond.

And the third half :D have NO idea what you are talking about ("is that some kind of psychiatric job?").

Sodbuster
December 31, 2002, 11:46 AM
That it is important to train the way you fight, just so you can go to war and find out that you do everything differently
Reminds me of a couple things I heard when I was stationed in (West) Germany a few years back. A German general said the reason the U.S. does so well in wartime is because war is chaos, and the U.S. military practices chaos on a daily basis. A Russian general said it was hard to prepare to fight the U.S. because its rank-and-file military members see no need to follow their doctrine in wartime and throw their training manuals away and do what they want. Contrast that last statement with the fact that the Russians would only entrust their officers with maps. Enlisted personnel weren't trained to read maps; I wonder why.

JohnBT
December 31, 2002, 01:16 PM
After completing a year of college, my tomboy, gun shooting cousin decided to join the Army and see the world. Well, about the time they found out she was National Honor Society in H.S. and knew about computers, they gave her a big old security clearance and a job at this big communications post in northern Maryland a number of miles up the road from D.C.
Gee, she got to move from Virginia to Maryland.

From the Army she went to work for the Navy as a civilian programmer back in VA and now appears to be working for the government somewhere west of D.C. - at least she says she's working and seems to be getting paid.

I've heard rumors from other sources, probably unreliable, that in case of emergency they'll all have to leave the mountain and go outside to make room for the VIPs who are coming by tunnel from D.C. (My friends in the same town seem to know a lot about the place :) )

See the world sounds like false advertising.

John

Oleg Volk
December 31, 2002, 01:41 PM
My greatest disappointment was the realization that even the US Army doesn't trust its personnel with weapons. Near as I can tell, soldiers are actually unarmed most of the time, not even a sidearm. That might change once at war, but that's how it seems to be while intraining or on bases. Anyone verify this impression?

Viking6
December 31, 2002, 01:54 PM
In the US Army, arms are kept in arms rooms unless they are being used for training or when soldiers are deployed in a combat zone or similar mission. I won't debate the reasons just affirming your observation.

Boats
December 31, 2002, 01:59 PM
There are not too many Army personnel operating under the delusion that they will see the more desireable parts of the world. Join the Army and see the world? I don't think so.

Reasons I joined the Navy in 1984 with a deferred enlistment beginning in 1985:

1) I wasn't ready for college. I was by the time I ended my hitch.

2) The Navy actually has bases in exotic locales. I was stationed in Pearl Harbor, but even San Diego would've been preferable to most of the mainland Army and Air Force bases I have seen.

3) Most of the Navy runs one or two times a year and I hate jogging.

4) Most of the Navy lives in air conditioning of varying effectiveness.

5) Three hots and a real cot almost everyday. My only time in the mud was voluntary.

Now to maximize my chances of travel, I chose to become an unrated seaman and strike into a rating OTJ aboard ship, rather than get an instacrow rating as a Fire Control Technician or something else requiring a six year hitch, A and C, schools though I was offered this track by a very eager recruiter based on my ASVAB scores. Once you get over the idea of learning a "civilian marketable skill," :scrutiny: especially since I only wanted some seasoning and the college money, the "dream sheet" for assignments opens up wonderfully. I went to Pearl after choosing Hawaii with my detailer after I had graduated boot and basic seamanship training as an E-2. I found that I was appreciated in the deck division of my destroyer by my division officer, Chief Boatswain's Mate and the weapons officer, because they considered me pretty sharp, so I struck to become a Boatswain's Mate myself and I became an E-5 with almost a year left in my enlistment because the rating was wide open for advancement compared to others.

I went to Canada, Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, San Diego, Maui, Hawaii, Kauai, Guam, The Phillipines, Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, Singapore, Diego Garcia, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, Kenya, India, Sri Lanka, Austrailia, Tonga, Western Samoa, and American Samoa. I explored extending my enlistment, but the only billets available in Hawaii were in supply ships or the minesweepers and those vessels do not interest me to this day. I got out.

All of the places I went in the Navy beat the $%&* out of Fort Hood, Texas where I visited my brother the 21st Cav helo mechanic once. Of course my best friend in high school joined the Navy around the same time I did and got to see RTC San Diego, the Philly Naval Shipyard, and Keflavik, Iceland. It sucks to be a Yeoman, YMMV!

wingnutx
December 31, 2002, 02:10 PM
Most people have a hard time understanding why a Navy unit is stationed Arizona, as 99% of them have never heard the term Seabee. They don't know what a combat engineer is either. I tell them we get to build stuff and shoot anyone who messes with our bulldozers.

When they hear that I weld, they assume it is underwater welding.

When somone finds out that I have a military background, they think that's all I have to talk about. Sailors/marines/soldiers are just one-dimensional caricatures. They don't know that Socrates was a soldier, and only know the military from the teevee, where they are either sadistic bullies or unimaginative cannon-fodder.

Right now, every single person I meet asks if I'll get recalled to active duty for Iraq. How the hell should I know? Doesn't bother me too much, but drives my girlfriend crazy.

wingnutx
December 31, 2002, 02:13 PM
Boats-

Reasons to join the various branches:


Navy- to travel and see the world.
Army- for the great advancement potential
Air Force- for the nice accomodations
Marines- to break things and kill people


:D

M1911
December 31, 2002, 02:50 PM
I remember a TV crew interviewing some anti-war college army reserves during Desert Storm, and the college kids were saying, "I joined the military for the scholarship money, not to fight. I'm not going to fight."Runt, I was at Stanford during the Gulf War. One of those clowns was a student at Stanford. But get this, her reserve job was as a medic. Her tortured logic was that she was a conscientious objector because if she went to the Gulf, she'd be patching up soldiers who would then go back to fighting.

Contrast her behavior with that of my wife's colleague. This fellow was brought up as a Quaker. When he was drafted during the Vietnam war, he went to the draft board and told them he was a Quaker. They told him that as a CO, he would not have to serve. He insisted that he serve in some way, because if he didn't serve, someone else would have to serve in his place, but that he wouldn't serve in a combat role. He ended up in Vietnam mapping rock formations to help site drinking water wells. He was unarmed and was shot at on more than one occasion.

I just can't understand why in the world we let them get away with that kind of crap. We should have sent several very large MPs to collect that particular young lady (and any others like her), put her in handcuffs, throw her into a GI car, and tell her she can choose between two destinations: Leavenworth or the Gulf, and she's got 1 minute to decide.

When you sign on the line with Uncle Sam, you get all of the benefits -- tuition, salary, health care, etc. But the flip side is that Uncle Sam owns yer butt. If he wants you to go to some nasty place, kill some people, and maybe get killed in the process, that's what you do. If you don't like that, then don't sign up.

M1911

Rangerover
December 31, 2002, 02:55 PM
M1911:

Well said!

11xray
December 31, 2002, 04:02 PM
Oleg, weapons in the U.S Army are very strictly controlled.

I don't know how it is done now, but when I was in a weapons card and an identification card and a signature were required to draw a weapon.

And that was only if the weapons room had been opened by previous arrangment from higher up.

The weapons card had to be surrendered before receipt of the weapon. You never had both in your possesion at the same time.

The issuing of live ammunition, other than periodically for training purposes , is an extremely rare event.

There are at least two reasons for the above state of affairs, but that would be a subject for another thread.

Blackhawk
December 31, 2002, 04:40 PM
My greatest disappointment was the realization that even the US Army doesn't trust its personnel with weapons. Near as I can tell, soldiers are actually unarmed most of the time, not even a sidearm. That might change once at war, but that's how it seems to be while intraining or on bases. Anyone verify this impression? In Vietnam, I was armed 24/7, but it may have been up to the commander to set the policy. Of course, those on firebases were armed 24/7. Even so, I heard about some areas where weapons were kept locked in the armory.

As said in other posts, weapons were "not availabel" except in special circumstances in stateside postings.

Come to think of it, the only thing that makes sense is for weapons policy to be commander's option, even stateside.

Nineisfine
December 31, 2002, 07:59 PM
Destroyer Tender - Vietnam War. Carried a 45 as Petty Officer of the watch. Training consisted of firing a couple of mags from the fantail of the ship. Just had to be able to make it go bang not hit anything.

Security detail for some of the weapons we carried. Received some serious training with M1 Carbine and 45 ACP. Had to requalify every quarter with both weapons so we got a fair amount of range time. Funny thing is that my regular job was a computer jockey but I got more weapons training than most of the guys on the tender. To this day, I love to shoot my old M1 Carbine.

Once in Subic Bay we were moving weapons so the security detail was called out. My station was on an upper deck overlooking the pier. A local civilian worker was walking by and it was obvious he was noticing armed sailors on the ship. Next day we were told to stay out of sight when on security detail.

Whoever said that a ships company consisted of firefighters sure got it right. We got some intensive firefighting training. Put my whole company into a bunker with some fuel oil in a shallow tank in the center and then they lit it off..I was blowing black junk out of my nose for days but sure learned how to fight a fire in a confined space.

Hkmp5sd
December 31, 2002, 11:24 PM
The issuing of live ammunition, other than periodically for training purposes , is an extremely rare event.

That's surprising. We used to have Repel Boarders and Nuclear Weapons Security Drills all the time and we would head to the small arms locker and get handed a M16, 870 or 1911 and several loaded magazines or a handfull of shotgun shells. Then we're go tearing off through the boat in search of someone to shoot. We even had them while the boat was high and dry in drydock with a few hundred yard workers aboard. It was always fun watching their eye bulge out at us.

All our normal guards carried firearms and any time we handled nukes outside the boat, we had an armed perimeter with permission to use deadly force if ANYONE crossed the designated line.

Jorah
December 31, 2002, 11:44 PM
Of course my best friend in high school joined the Navy around the same time I did and got to see RTC San Diego, the Philly Naval Shipyard, and Keflavik, Iceland. It sucks to be a Yeoman, YMMV!

I joined out of high school in '78. High asvabs, was told that I could basically have anything but nukes (bad math) so joined with no set job in mind. Halfway through boot I was called to review dreamsheet, select job... when interviewer heard I was colorblind, he circled about 5 jobs in the corner of the sheet; store keeper, aviation store keeper, and three other varieties. So I became a ****kicker and ended up in New London, CT, about 80 miles from where I grew up. Lived on "Building 11" on State Pier; the ship left the pier once while I was on board, steamed around long island sound for a day or two, then came home. When I asked about getting transfered elsewhere if I re-upped, was told that they needed SKs right there in NLON, but I might get a chance to move on my second re-up... eight years in New London I would have been in an asylum. I saw... Great Lakes, Meridian MS, and NLON... some world. As we sang in boot camp, "raisin, raisin, don't be blue... my recruiter screwed me too...


-J.

PS: I actually did get a couple jobs with my hard-earned Store Keeper Skills, and I surely grew up fast in those two years I was in the Nav... I just wonder -now- if that interviewer in Boot was told... listen, we need SKs... get 50 of them out of the current crop...

Blackhawk
December 31, 2002, 11:53 PM
I just wonder -now- if that interviewer in Boot was told... listen, we need SKs... get 50 of them out of the current crop...That's exactly how the military works -- you make what you have fill the needs you have. People can adapt and be trained. "I need 5 volunteers, you, you, you, you, and you" isn't a joke, it's SOP.

dfrog
January 1, 2003, 12:00 AM
I served in the US Navy. Most people think I was on a ship....I never seen a US Navy ship during my entire hitch. I was strickly land duty in isolated places.:cool:

Griff
January 1, 2003, 07:52 AM
Ever heard that "the ones who have/had security clearences are part of the vast government conspiracies" ? :rolleyes:

Bigdog
January 1, 2003, 09:29 AM
Any multi-service people here? My first hitch out of high school was the USAF - three and a half years at Tyndall AFB, 115 miles from home. Was gonna re-enlist and go elsewhere, but was told (after being out for eight months!) that my job was critical - I'd go back to Tynadall as if I'd been on extended leave. I wanted to travel . . .
So I re-upped into the Navy. "Join the Navy and see the world!" Well, the world is 3/4 water and I saw alot of it. :D
Actually, it wasn't bad duty on a frigate - I spent three years getting paid to take carribean cruises! Lot's of beach partys! ;)
Being bored with quarter deck duty, I joined the Reaction Force/Asroc Guard Force/Roving Security - with a small crew and no Marines, we did all that. I trained with the Colt .45, Rem 870 and the M14. Liked 'em so much I have my own Colt and 870 now - the M1A is still a bit too steep.
Our best training was during Refresher Training in Gitmo (with weekends at Ft. Lauderdale - loved Spring Break!). I got to draw down on a Senior Chief who popped his head up a hatch in the Exclusion Area - looking up the 870's barrel, he told me "Good job, Petty Officer!" then beat a hasty retreat. :eek:
We did donuts off the coast of Beirut in '83, but didn't get to shoot anything. The fireworks started three days after we left the AO.
My ET and Crypto experience was a factor in my eventual job in the computer field. I was one of the few operators/programmers who could actually fix hardware problems. :cool:

I still detest those people who find out I'm ex-military - "did you ever kill anyone?" they ask. :fire:

Robby from Long Island
January 1, 2003, 03:04 PM
Anybody in the navy knows how to handle small boats! Sorry, I was on an aircraft carrier (U.S.S. FORRESTAL CVA-59).

Wouldn't know how to operate an 18' runabout.:D

Average Guy
January 1, 2003, 03:37 PM
If you're military, and somebody finds out in the course of a conversation, they assume you know everybody else in the military.

That's a good one. Got that all the time.

Strangely enough, someone once asked me if I knew another guy in the USMC. As it turned out, he happened to be one of my closest friends.

TarpleyG
January 1, 2003, 06:09 PM
That Reservists are not real Soldiers. Huh! I had D Battery, 2d Battalion, 14th Marines with my unit in DS.

Bob A,

I was in that unit up until shortly before DS. We didn't seem all that organized but I guess we were after all.

GT

vulcan
January 1, 2003, 08:10 PM
Some people think once you made sargent, you got it easy. My civilian friends think so anyway. The promotion comes with a lot of responsibility IMO. I remember each step up the NCO rank meant less sleep & more work, Being a Corporal was the best:) . You had enough authority to get details done & but were still considered one of the guys. I ran a Vulcan gun platoon in the 82nd ABN at age 21. The unit was understrength & had "acting jacks" filling positions meant for 2 grades higher. I often wondered what my friend back at home was doing while I burning the midnight oil filling out platoon paperwork. It was kinda weird,my driver was in his 30s. I sometimes think people get this idea from watching gomer pyle & seeing the sargent "get over". My hat's off to all the young NCOs in the service:) . My mother definitely liked what she got back from the service:D

Bob A
January 2, 2003, 01:37 AM
That Reservists are not real Soldiers. Huh! I had D Battery, 2d Battalion, 14th Marines with my unit in DS.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Bob A,

I was in that unit up until shortly before DS. We didn't seem all that organized but I guess we were after all.

GT

GT, compared to 2/10, the boys from Waterloo had all their feces consolidated in one sock. And the sad thing is that 2/10 was better than most battalions in the 2d Division.

Semper Fi

BA

.45Ranger
January 2, 2003, 09:55 PM
Hey Robby! What years were ya on the F.I.D? My brother in law served on her from 85?-89 I think. Me I haven't heard any misconceptions in regards to ex-military. But then I never brought the subject up in casual conversation. I wasn't very proud of my time in the Navy. Felt like I had basically wasted 2 years of my time and others. Mostly doin this:banghead: My attitudes is slowly changing but there is still that one steaming pile of oxygen wasting sewage I wouldn't mind havin' a crack at.

BlackArrow
January 2, 2003, 11:07 PM
Jorah may have not gotten a lot of training in the Navy but the Boy can shoot! Don't mess with him!:cool:

Robby from Long Island
January 3, 2003, 12:58 AM
.45Ranger,

I was on the USS FORRESTAL from '61 to '63 after spending a year with VW-2 at Patuxent River Naval Air Test Center, Md.

Wish I could say I had an exciting job on the flight deck, CIC, Pri-Fly, Bridge or engineering, but I didn't. I spent a couple of years working in the Air Office pushing papers. Hey, we can't all be heros........

Safe shooting.

Sodbuster
January 3, 2003, 01:03 AM
That Reservists are not real Soldiers.
Or not real Marines. Joe Foss was a Marine reservist. Lots of them buried in the south Pacific. Lots of Army reservists buried above Omaha Beach. Air Force reserve pilots died in Korea.

MarineTech
January 4, 2003, 07:55 PM
I just can't understand why in the world we let them get away with that kind of crap. We should have sent several very large MPs to collect that particular young lady (and any others like her), put her in handcuffs, throw her into a GI car, and tell her she can choose between two destinations: Leavenworth or the Gulf, and she's got 1 minute to decide.

M1911

This is pretty much what happened in the Marine Corps when Desert Shield kicked off. About 5 or 6 Marines decided that they were Conscientious Objectors when they found out that they'd actually have to make good on their enlistment and fight. As I recall, most of them claimed that they had joined up for college money or to learn a skill and that they didn't believe in fighting. They were re-assigned to the Pendleton Brig. Not on the good side of the bars.

M1911
January 4, 2003, 08:22 PM
This is pretty much what happened in the Marine Corps when Desert Shield kicked off. About 5 or 6 Marines decided that they were Conscientious Objectors when they found out that they'd actually have to make good on their enlistment and fight. As I recall, most of them claimed that they had joined up for college money or to learn a skill and that they didn't believe in fighting. They were re-assigned to the Pendleton Brig. Not on the good side of the bars.Hooah! Thank God for the Marine Corps.

I did not serve. My cousin, who was my best man, recently retired as a CWO4. I've forgiven him for looking more impressive in his whites (and sword) then I did at my wedding.

Hkmp5sd
January 5, 2003, 01:05 AM
That CPO's are GOD.

Ooops, that's not a misconception, just a fact.:)

Chvelle
January 5, 2003, 01:42 AM
When I was in the Army, I was in a gunbunny unit stationed in Germany. On the rare occassion we would have to pull gate guard duty, we were armed with a -16 and an unopened case of ammo. We also had two of our live fire field exercises were cancelled and another was cut short due to budget cuts.:rolleyes: If somebody wanted to do some damage, they could have beenin and out before we woul of had the case broke open. We only went to the range once or twice a year just to requalify. When I was in, I only got to shoot the 16, an M60 and the 203, I missed out on th .50cal, .45 or the M3 Grease gun.:( I don't know what they would do if you requested to go to the range

When it was time to pay in the desert one of our female soldiers stole a guys truck, six cartons of smokes and shagged a$$ back to Wisconsin. THe trucks owner had to take a taxi to the ship and fork over all his cash for the ride. Four months later, she was caught and instead of getting slammed in jail, was given a general discharge. No charges for theft, desertion,...nothing. The trucks owner got a storage bill for $1500 :what: , He wrote back and told the guy to come on over and pick it up.

During DS, four out of seven females in my unit got pregnate during their time over there, and two others before the SHTF stateside.

UnknownSailor
January 5, 2003, 03:11 AM
I joined out of high school in '78. High asvabs, was told that I could basically have anything but nukes (bad math) so joined with no set job in mind. Halfway through boot I was called to review dreamsheet, select job... when interviewer heard I was colorblind, he circled about 5 jobs in the corner of the sheet; store keeper, aviation store keeper, and three other varieties. So I became a ****kicker and ended up in New London, CT, about 80 miles from where I grew up. Lived on "Building 11" on State Pier; the ship left the pier once while I was on board, steamed around long island sound for a day or two, then came home. When I asked about getting transfered elsewhere if I re-upped, was told that they needed SKs right there in NLON, but I might get a chance to move on my second re-up... eight years in New London I would have been in an asylum. I saw... Great Lakes, Meridian MS, and NLON... some world. As we sang in boot camp, "raisin, raisin, don't be blue... my recruiter screwed me too...


-J.

PS: I actually did get a couple jobs with my hard-earned Store Keeper Skills, and I surely grew up fast in those two years I was in the Nav... I just wonder -now- if that interviewer in Boot was told... listen, we need SKs... get 50 of them out of the current crop...

Supply field news flash.

As of 0001 01 January 2003, the AK rating no longer exists. AK and SK merged.

All I can say is......I'm not happy. I liked being an AK. :(

One other thing. The sea/shore rotation is 48/36 for SKs now.

That is all.

jmbg29
January 5, 2003, 06:58 AM
I served in the US Navy. Most people think I was on a ship....I never seen a US Navy ship during my entire hitch. I was strickly land duty in isolated places.I saw a few, but I didn't have to ride around on 'em. :D

The old days of the MN rate being flown to all of their duty stations is over.:fire: The filthy Klintonista made them pull sweeper duty half of the time.:fire: Any self respecting mineman would swim to shore, rather than bob around over a damn minefield.:scrutiny: :cuss:

Thank you God, for sparing me the indignity of serving under that Demorat commie.

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