Who's had a defective firearm right out of the box?


December 26, 2004, 05:00 PM
Even the best manufacturers put out a lemon or two. Ever have a brand new gun that was defective out of the box? Whether missing/broken/incorrectly assembled parts or failure to function correctly, it really dampens your spirits. Had this just happen to a co-worker with a M1911A1 (Auto-Ordnance, I think) and he was pretty miffed.

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December 26, 2004, 05:04 PM
I bought a S&W 329PD that had a crack in the frame that I didn't notice till I got home. I was pretty upset, upset at myself for not seeing it before I bought it.

R.H. Lee
December 26, 2004, 05:08 PM
Yep. New S&W Mod 19 that was so badly out of time it wouldn't fire on all cylinders-from the Bangor Punta era.

December 26, 2004, 05:28 PM

Also Yep for folks I've witnessed as well.

Hence the reason I prefer the Older well crafted firearms with real metallurgy, no internal / infernal locks,funky finishes ... and tricked out bling bling.

December 26, 2004, 05:35 PM
Bushmaster Carbon 15 type 97 pistol. It will only shoot 1 shot and then it jams. I have to send it back to Bushmaster at my expense to have them fix it.

another okie
December 26, 2004, 05:36 PM
Beretta NEOS. I've found three burrs so far and had them ground off. It wouldn't go into battery consistently. Grinding the burrs off has fixed that, but I'm still having an occasional feeding problem. Actually I think there's a small burr on the feed ramp.

December 26, 2004, 05:36 PM
Had a 642 that didn't lock up on slow DA, out of the box. Dealer sent it back to S&W and they fixed it (new hand, I presume).

Had a Colt Agent that had a horribly fitted sideplate, rode so high I couldn't use a speedloader, but it worked, and the innards were actually fitted very well.

Charter Arms AR-7 was a jam-o-matic POS.

lee n. field
December 26, 2004, 05:44 PM
I bought a Charter Arms AR-7 whose stock fixing screw wouldn't screw into the reciever -- not long enough or mis threaded or something.

December 26, 2004, 05:46 PM
Yeah, I've had one :( A SIG P220 that had THE WORSE TRIGGER PULL EVER! :banghead: The guy at the gun shop ran out of weights at 15# on the DA trigger pull and was 9# SA :( Sold it & haven't looked back

Randy in Arizona
December 26, 2004, 06:05 PM
OM Ruger Bearcat $40 new, Firing pin too short to reliably fire primers.

Santa Fe Arms 03-A3 $40 new, Receiver out of line, barely caught bolt on boltstop.

Took both back to the dealer, traded for a Browning Challenger, SN 102113U8.
I loaned it to an uncle that was having neighbor problems, it was stolen in a break in. :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

I still have an OM Super Single Six that has the barrel roll markings at an angle, but that is a defect that does not affect functioning.

December 26, 2004, 06:19 PM
Colt Defender. Bad extractor, and wouldn't feed corectly with the factory magazines. Not much fun trying to shoot when almost every spent case gets left in the chamber while the next round, when it did feed correctly, would try to go into a full chamber.

Feed problem got fixed with new mags. Called Colt to ask them to send and extractor. They wanted me to send them the whole gun on my nickle. After much jabbering and several calls. they finally sent an extractor. Replaced it with a Wilson extractor then traded the gun.

December 26, 2004, 06:19 PM
a 45 handgun para clone. should of realised it when it had C.A.I. engraved on the frame. that was the last firearm I will ever buy from century arms. was averageing 8 jams in a 10 shot mag. :cuss:

December 26, 2004, 06:21 PM
From the oldguy view point ,modern quality control sucks, now you pay your
money and pull the handle, companies are more interested in getting the product out the door rather then be concerned if its up to standard.

signed: an old QC supervisor.

December 26, 2004, 06:33 PM
Around 1978 or 79, I bought a Winchester Model 70 in 25.06. The 3-position safety wouldn't go all the way to full safe. I carried it back to the small town dealer where I bought it. He said " No problem, I'm a gunsmith,and I can fix it."
I came back in a couple of days to pick it up. Sure enough, it would swing back and forth slick as you please. I don't know what made me do it, but I slid the safety to "Full Safe", pulled the trigger,and then slid it to "Fire". The most terrible sound you ever heard came next------SNAP!!!!
It turns out this dumda$$ ground the sholder off of the firing pin to make the safety work. You should have seen the size of his eyes when that firing pin released. I found an "Authorized Winchester Gunsmith" in a local town to make it right.

December 26, 2004, 06:37 PM
I had a loose front sight on my Sig P226 which Sig repaired for me at no charge.

December 26, 2004, 06:44 PM

Marlin 1894C: returned for cracked stock
S&W 629: returned for timing problem
S&W 908: returned for fail to eject problems
Ruger 22/45: returned for ejection problems

I still have each gun described, but it is a pain to send them back to the factory. What a hassle.

I've bought new cars that were lemons. I'm beginning to believe QC is a thing of the past.

December 26, 2004, 07:05 PM
A used (I guess thats the key) Ruger MkII had the barrel/reciever interface out of spec, Ruger replaced the pistol for free.


December 26, 2004, 07:07 PM
My first H&K USP45 lost the left rear frame rail (what the slide rides on) the first time I shot it. There was a recall for all the pistols in that original production run.

My first Springfield Armory M1A was recalled right after I got it. The cast bolts Springfield was using at the time were breaking at one of the locking lugs. The Scout model I replaced it with blew up first time shooting. The replacement Scout had severe problems with the gas system, even after the second trip back to the factory. The last one was a full size rifle and worked OK most of the time.

My Springfield SAR8 had a very tight magazine well.

Those are just off the top of my head.

December 26, 2004, 07:08 PM
Only one, a S&W M19. It might have actually fired the way I got it but I wasn't going to find out. I sent it back , they fixed it at no charge, but I was still wound up about it so I sold it.

Standing Wolf
December 26, 2004, 07:40 PM
I bought a Smith & Wesson model 27-2 in 1978 or 1979 with a grossly inaccurate barrel. I sent it back to Smith & Wesson, which sent me a gun with a somewhat less defective, but still inaccurate barrel.

http://www.clarkcustomguns.com did it right years later.

December 26, 2004, 07:43 PM
Yup - about 3 years ago I bought a new Stoeger 12ga coach gun. Within just a couple shots, the stock cracked at the wrist. I took it back to the shop, and they replaced the stock for me.

December 26, 2004, 07:46 PM
Bought my sister a Henry .22 lever rifle. Out of the box, the sights would not move over enough to make it hit paper at 15 yards. Also, now it won't extract any brass after firing a shot. Henry told me I could send it back, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

Phil Ca
December 26, 2004, 07:49 PM
The only one that I bought that was defective out of the box was the first firearm I ever bought. I was 18 and in the army in Germany. I went to the Coleman Barracks Rod and Gun Club and bought a Winchester 77 Rifle. It was a .22LR and the sear was defective. Sometimes it would empty all seven rounds from the magazine in a single pull and release of the trigger. It was fun to shoot but no good for plinking at cans.

One day on the way back to my barracks after a session on the range my buddy and I were stopped by two MPs in a jeep. They anted to know if we had seen anyone at the range firing a submachine gun! We replied that we had seen No one at the range with a subgun. We did not bother to mention that my rifle was doublong and trippling ad even quadrupling when fired.

I ended selling it some time later to sergeant that was an amateur gunsmith. He managed to work on it and cure the problem.

December 26, 2004, 07:52 PM
I bought a Maddi that had a safety that wouldn't work. The distributer had it shipped back and repaired at his or the manufactures cost.

Zach S
December 26, 2004, 07:54 PM
My Kimber Polymer (BUL M5) would slide-lock with rounds left in the mag. I just changed the slide stop. It may have worked out after break-in, just never gave it the chance. As I understand it, it was a common problem with BUL pistols.

My Para Companion's extractor wouldn't hold tension. I swapped it with a Wilson BP extractor. Factory mag wouldnt lock the slide back when empty. Also replaced with a Wilson, several actually. Never failed again.

Otherwise, I cant recall any. Of course, I've got less than a dozen, not all were new.

edit: Oh, I did have a minor problem with my Taurus M85UL, cant remember what it was though.

Lee F
December 26, 2004, 08:07 PM
Three Savage rifles. 1985-2004.

The first two in 1985. After firing the bolt would lock closed and had to be hammered open. I traded the first for another model off the dealer's shelf and demanded a refund on the second.

After reading great reports on the "new, wonderful, accurate" Savages here and else where I ordered a 10FP last week. It never left the gun shop floor with me. The barrel to stock fit was cartoon like. The screw heads were marred. With all those visual defects there's no telling what was hidden inside. I honestly tried to give Savage another chance.

December 26, 2004, 08:27 PM
I had to send a CETME back to C.A.I. 2 times before to fired right. Now it shoots good.

December 26, 2004, 09:20 PM
I've had two pistols that were bad from jump-street.

The first was a Tanfoglio Witness Compact in 10mm Auto, Wonder finish. About as nice a fit/finish as I've seen on a Witness, but the thing would jam, misfeed and slide lock before emptying the mag. Several trips to EAA(USA importer/servicing agent) were a very challenging experience. The pistol still isn't 100% reliable, the slide isn't my original slide and to top it off, EAA seemed to feel they could never satisfy me so they asked that I never by another EAA product again(though they did offer to "buy back" the pistol). Not nice people and not truly customer oriented.

The second is a Walther P22. Correctly I should say that the next three are Walther P22's, as the original P22 and the first replacement P22 were both faulty to a point that S&W/Walther USA just decided to replace them. The third one isn't perfect either, but at least it has some brands of ammo that will function with some manner of reliability through it.

December 26, 2004, 09:37 PM
Had a Beretta Tomcat with a bevel on one side of the front sight. Didn't notice it until I went to the range that afternoon. Made for an interesting sight picture. Gunshop replaced it straight away.

December 26, 2004, 10:26 PM
AR-7 that wouldn't feed for beans directly out of the box . I put a slight chamfer in the bottom of the throat and it fed just fine but wouldn't eject . Now it works great as long as it's fed Velocitors , MiniMags of Super Max's .

Number 6
December 26, 2004, 10:56 PM
When I got my Benelli Nova, they failed to put the ejector onto the gun. I was pretty miffed, but the guys at the shop I bought it from called their rep directly and had the part there and installed in a few days.

Ky Larry
December 26, 2004, 10:57 PM
Tec-9 9mm. Jam-o-matic P.O.S. Sent it back to the factory twice and it still wouldn't feed. Traded it for a T/C Contender in .223. Best trade I ever made.

December 26, 2004, 11:09 PM
Colt Trooper Mark III, hammer would drop without touching the trigger, sent back to factory, came back, did the same thing, returned it to dealer in trade for a S&W model 19, haven't bought a new Colt revolver since (1979).

Do have an Official Police that I like, no problems there, made in the 1950s.

December 26, 2004, 11:10 PM
Winchester 1300. First shot out of the box and it scattered pellets all over the place. Upon closer inspection, I noticed a flaw in the muzzle where a dime sized chunck of slag was missing. Sent it back to Winchester, got it back 72 hrs later, new barrel. :)

Slag happens. :p

December 26, 2004, 11:22 PM
The second is a Walther P22. Correctly I should say that the next three are Walther P22's, as the original P22 and the first replacement P22 were both faulty to a point that S&W/Walther USA just decided to replace them. The third one isn't perfect either, but at least it has some brands of ammo that will function with some manner of reliability through it.


I don't have a P22, but I've been thinking about getting one for a long time and have been reading various forums regarding them.

Have you tried leaving the hammer cocked back for a week? I've read many times that when the pistol is new, the mainspring is too tight, and leaving it cocked for a week weakens it enough to make the pistol reliable.

December 26, 2004, 11:23 PM
Yes, another Walther P22. After three trips back, and one replacement It finally works like it should.


December 26, 2004, 11:35 PM
Kahr P9 Covert.

Rails that warped, loose sights, and a trigger pin that walked completely out after 30 rounds.

Sent it back to the factory. They said they would pay shipping but never did. Their idea of a fix was to melt and mash a piece of wire into the plastic frame leaving the trigger pin hole reamed out and sloppy. And they were nasty on the phone about it when I had the audacity to question their behavior after I was stuck for shipping charges on a brand new pistol that was jury-rigged and thrown back at me.

I don't care if they have worked the bugs out, Lucifer is going to be sellin' ski packages in Hades before Justin Moon sees any more of my money.

December 26, 2004, 11:48 PM
3 letters; AMT. Nuff said. :mad:

December 27, 2004, 12:53 AM
While out shooting today with my brother, his brand-new Kahr PM9 developed a problem after about 10 shots. The side panel pin came loose, allowing the panel to pop open at the rear. This allowed the trigger bar to pop out and jam the slide. After popping everything back into place, the gun fired ok, but the side panel pin kept coming loose and he had to push it back into place at slide-lock.

December 27, 2004, 01:41 AM
SA Milspec .38 Super, would drop the hammer with the safety in the on position. Traded it on a FN HP, never looked at SA products again. Although the M1A's are mighty tempting.

SIG GSR 1911, faulty hammer strut, bad ergo, stiff trigger, jammomatic from the factory. Two return trips later I have a very nice smithed SIG with great trigger and no reliability issues. Serial number in the low 700's probably contributed to these issues, need to learn not to be the 1st guy on the block with the new toy.

December 27, 2004, 02:20 AM
Had a Ruger Redhawk with defective lockwork or defective cylinder, not sure which. Cylinder would not go through a complete revolution.

Had a Winchester 94 with a chipped stock.

Didn't upset me, though. I had a good relationship with the dealer, and he had a good rapport with his distributor. In each case I had a replacement inside of a week.

December 27, 2004, 02:33 AM
Had a similar situation as TNGO but with a Ruger Blackhawk.

Cylinder locked up tight. Really sucked since I was buying it in Ca., and the waiting period was almost up, and since it was defective, they had to re-order the pistol, and start the 10-days all over again. :banghead:

That pistol was stolen only a couple years later, and the FBI returned it to me this year.

My CETME came with the extractor spring broken as well. I really shouldn't consider it defective though, because it still functioned 100%, it just didn't eject very far.


December 27, 2004, 05:59 AM
Many years ago a shooting buddy and fellow dealer had a SA M-1 Garand chambered in 7.62 slam fire twice. The first time it happened the 308 case looked as though it had been fired in a 30/06 chamber and had no bad side affects. the second time it happened the case came out of the reciever and actually broke the National Match appeture (sp) from the top of the elevator. That was enough of a warning that he quit shooting the rifle and brought it over to me to look at.

He had the rifle for probably a year and fired it a lot in that time in practice and competition with no problems. So what happened?

While inspecting the reciever I noticed a casting flaw or void in the reciever "bridge" that allowed the firing pin to "free float" and set the primer off before the bolt had rotated into battery for proper firing.

We drove over to Geneseo, Ill. to the factory and presented the rifle to them with an explaination that it was slam firing.

At that time the had a small (standing room only) waiting area where we were left while they inspected the reciever. After a period of time the technician returned with the reciever and the gage used to check the proper distance of the face of the reciever to the bridge and stated that it checked good.

We were allowed to check this out and it was obvious that the gage/gauge was wider than a firing pin and bridged over the void that allowed the firing pin to travel forward as it did. This was no fault of Springfield Armory but was faulty gauge making/design.

The remaining quistion of why the rifle did not fail for nearly a year of shooting was answered when I pointed out the shine on the inside of the reciever caused by the firing pin leg dragging on the reciever. This interferance had stopped the free floating untill it wore the end of the firing pin enough to allow it to slide forward under its own inertia when the bolt had stopped.

All this being said we were invited into the back room and giving a tour and allowed to pick a replacement reciever and barrel etc and watch them assemble it. Very GOOD treatment when they understood that we new what we were talking about.

The point is that there are many things that can and do slip through even after inspections etc.

We did have a good laugh on the way home when my friend says" We f#@&ed up!"
I asked "Why" and he said "If I would have bandaged up my face etc maybe we could have owned half the place."


cracked butt
December 27, 2004, 07:11 AM
Remington 597- Seems remington was building on Bill Ruger's philosophy and one-upping him by building a semiauto for the "honest man who doesn't need more than a 3-shot semiauto. I sold the POS as it wasn't worth my time or money to discover a fix for a $120 rifle.

Ruger Bearcat- the factory set fixed sights were off by about 1' low and to the right. Had it sent back to the factory, where not only did Ruger make it right, they even threw in a complimentary trigger job to make the formerly heavy trigger break at a nice clean 3 lbs. :cool:

Yugoslavian M48 and M48a- one had a safety that would not work, and I suspect that the receiver might be soft, the other had rough bolt lugs/bolt lug recesses that made it difficult to open after fired. I'm not entirely suprised as it was these people that gave us the Yugo.

December 27, 2004, 07:42 AM
Kimber target II, 10mm. Bad barrel, would mar the brass the emery paper, feed issues, eject issues. Couldn't hit the braud side of the barn from the inside with it. On 3rd trip to dealer, we put the barrel uner a 10x glass and you could see chatter marks from the chamber reamer. They were too deap to polish so back to Kimber. The put a "new" barrel in it and after the "gunsmith" from Kimber called me and assured it was fixed and 100% he sent it back. (wouldnt send the test target and test brass though, got real defensive what I asked for them) Well, same thing. Another trip back to Kimber and they wanted to charge for the next barrel. I told them to stuff it and send the pistol back. The dealer refunded my money and said he would fight with them so I didn't have to. They eventually got it fixed but he had so much invested in the he lost like 50% of the value when he finally sold it.

December 27, 2004, 09:09 AM
From the Performance Center, no less. Lots of FTFs from light primer strike. Sent it back and then got a call, wanting to know who "butchered the trigger."

As I was there when the shipping carton was opened, I told them THEY did. It was either sabotage or incompetence; pick one. :eek:

The gun worked fine for the little use it got (50 -60 rounds per session,once or twice a month). However, it has started doing it again. :banghead:

December 27, 2004, 09:28 AM
'From the Performance Center, no less. Lots of FTFs from light primer strike. Sent it back and then got a call, wanting to know who "butchered the trigger."'

I love these.

Had a savage once that fired on closing the bolt. Took back to the gunsmith to have the trigger readjusted. He asked "who is the three year old that did this trigger job?" I just looked at him with the straightest face I could and asked him when he was turning four. LOL The rest of the shop still teases him about that.

December 27, 2004, 10:47 AM
I bought a Firestar M40 that jammed and stovepiped a lot. I sent it back to Interarms and they replaced a part but didn't fix the problem. I sent it back and the ramp was polished and sent back to me. It worked fine after that.

A while later the slide would no longer lock back after the last shot. Interarms put in a new slide release lever that was made from a softer metal than the original. I later had a Gander Mountain gunsmith smooth out the notch in the slide.

There were other problems with this gun as well. It is now mostly a safe queen but I still want to keep it. Don't ask me why. :(

December 27, 2004, 11:31 AM
too many to list.the most memorable was a leinad pm11 that had a barrel that blew up on the very first shot,I was just glad it didnt take my fingers with it and only left me with some minor cuts.The kicker was when I found out it had no warranty from the distributer as the manufacturer went out of business.

December 27, 2004, 11:42 AM
A buddy had a new Dan Wesson 357....it would lock up when shooting DA with the hammer in SA mode and just freeze...he sent it back like 3 times...he finally used it's value towards a Pointman 45(this gun's front sight worked loose in like a month)..funny thing is I had a used DW 357 that did the same thing(lock up)..no more DW's for me.....

December 27, 2004, 11:45 AM
Kelgren "Grendel" .380s - the original one that used stripper clips to load. :banghead: Most frustrating. Eventually I just gave up on the breed.

Nando Aqui
December 27, 2004, 01:26 PM
DPMS Panther LR .308

(1) Mine did not cycle at all out of the box.
Problem: Gas block was incorrectly assembled and the port misaligned.
I was able to fix it myself, but it was frustrating. :fire:

(2) More frustrating is the fact that the plastic magazines included with the rifle don't work well, if at all. This problem is on-going, and DPMS, who is well aware of the problem and promised new magazines to be delivered in September, has been moving back that delivery date and has not delivered yet!!! :cuss: :fire: :cuss: :fire:

December 27, 2004, 03:26 PM
These were all quite a number of years ago, all new guns right out of the box, in the order in which they happened:

S&W Model 19, shot so far to the left the sights couldn't be adjusted onto the target, traded it off.

S&W Model 66, when shooting double action it would lock up tight, had a timing problem, sent to authorized repair depot 4 times without being repaired, finally sent it to S&W, they fixed it correctly, I carried that revolver on duty and I still have it.

AMT Government Model 1911, rack a round into the chamber, put it on safe, when you would take it off safe the hammer would fall and discharge, AMT fixed it.

S&W Model 908, magazine release fell off the gun after about 20 shots, S&W sent me a new mag release and no more problems.

December 27, 2004, 09:53 PM
EAA Bountyhunter.357=4 misfires out of first cylinder full. Fixed under warranty.

RIA Commander=Wouldn't go completely into battery. Replaced recoil spring with 22 lb Wolf spring.

Charles Daly=Slide locked back/wouldn't go completly into battery. Replaced recoil spring & mags.

Charter 2000 Undercover=Light firing pin hits. Missfired 2 to 3 times per cylinder full. Fixed under warranty.

Charter Arms Offduty=Same as Undercover.

All guns were nib bought from ffl dealer.

Guy B. Meredith
December 27, 2004, 11:51 PM
I have a Ruger MK512 that had a loose front sight. I put some locktite on the screw and put it back in place.

I had noticed that the cleaning patches would be tight part way down the barrel, go loose for a bit and then tight again. Recently took a look down the barrel and it appears that there is a wide place in the bore which is deeper than the rifling. I had purchased the Ruger due to earlier experience with a MK I, but have found I am not interested in autos, so it took quite a while to notice the defect.

I will probably send it back for repair and then trade it off for an 870 or Garand. Or maybe a 4" 686+. Or maybe...

December 28, 2004, 12:25 AM
Springfield Armory Loaded 1911 that shot pie plate sized groups 1-2 feet low at a distance of 15 feet. My other 1911 was printing 2-3 groups at POA. I kept going back and forth between the two to make sure it was not me. Extremely Frustrating!! :fire:

December 28, 2004, 11:34 AM
I had a Marlin 1894c that would jam if you loade more that 3 rounds in the magazine. Marlin fixed it under warranty.

December 28, 2004, 12:12 PM
Two in a row Sigarms GSR's. Ultimately, received a full refund and bought a flawless 220ST instead.

December 28, 2004, 12:34 PM
All were NIB when I got them . . .

Colt Mk IV Series 70 Government Model. This is the one known as the Jammamatic. The runaround I got from Colt's NON service as they avoided honoring their warranty and repeatedly LIED about having fixed the pistol convinced me to never buy another pistol with the pony on it. :barf:

Kahr P9. Very troublesome - walking trigger pin, failure to go into battery, and a trigger that frequently didn't operate the striker. After several trips back to the factory (Kahr DID pay shipping both ways) they replaced it. I traded the replacement for a Glock 26.

Bushmaster XM15E2S. Mistimed barrel - needed 17 clicks of windage to center the group. Bushmaster had the upper picked up, fixed it right, and returned in 2 weeks. Good company.

Browning HP. On rare occasions, it would prematurely lock back the slide. I traced this down to a slide stop that was just a tad too long. Carefully stoning off 0.010" cured the problem, and the pistol has gone through several cases of ammo without the least hiccup since.

December 28, 2004, 12:47 PM
Pre-'94-Ban Colt Competition HBAR (AR-15). I sent it back to get the most obvious problem fixed.

It may have to go back again. :(

December 28, 2004, 01:04 PM
My CZ75B wouldn't eject a magazine properly.
First I thought it was the mag brake, but ater removing it, I noticed that it wasn't the brake, but rather, the frame. The mag well was cut incorrectly and would cause the mags to bind up on insertion and removal.
I called CZ and they offered to fix it but I would have had to pay for shipping. Hopefully they get better about customer service in the future.
I took a dremel to the gun for a few minutes and fixed it myself.

December 28, 2004, 01:13 PM
Bought an Auto Ordnance 1911 about 5 years ago new in box. Before ordering the gun, the owner of the store advised me to consider another brand, but at the time, I wanted mil-spec, plain jane looking 1911. He ordered one for me and it turned out he was right, it was a horrible gun and of very poor quality. It jammed on factory ball ammo and the front site popped off after a few mags of ammo. AO sent the dealer some replacement sites. They popped off too. I think they were made of some brittle cheap metal. The sites didn't really matter, since the gun could barely get through a mag of factory 230gr ball ammo. Also, after a few mags of ammo, I noticed that the locking lugs on the interior of the slide (where the barrel locks in place with the slide when the gun is in battery) were chipping/wearing down noticeably!

I traded the gun in, and eventually got a Springfield Armory 1911a1, which was flawless out of the box (although I got a little hammer bite every now and then from the SA). That AO was THE WORST gun I've ever owned or shot.

December 28, 2004, 02:02 PM
I have been really lucky but two guns came back into the shop, sold new, that had issues.

1. Saiga .308 rifle, newer type with the manual bolt stop.
It is shaving chunks of cartridge case during the feed cycle.
It appears the bolt is roller coasting over the bolt stop causing the cartridges to feed into the chamber at a lower than optimum angle.
This rifle is going back to EAA for repair.

2. Thompson Center Encore Blackpowder rifle.
Customer says he attempted to pull the barrel from the frame and "Parts" fell off the gun.
I have not seen the rifle yet but if what he says is true this rifle will be returned to T?C for warranty repair.

December 28, 2004, 02:11 PM
Ruger 10/22
Ruger MKII

Both had bad extractors.

December 28, 2004, 04:45 PM
Had a friend that had one of those SIG GSR pistols give him nothing but problems right from the get-go. What was particularly galling was that I had just bought a cheapo Norinco Ithaca 37 clone ($150) that's been flawless right from the box. Somethin' ain't right somewhere.

December 28, 2004, 06:33 PM
EAA Witness .45

Jammed, threw brass at my eyes and front sight came loose when shooting the first magazine.

Went back to EAA for repairs and came back just as bad.


December 28, 2004, 10:04 PM
I've owned probably fifty guns in twenty years.
The only ones seriously defective right at purchase were four different Kahr MK9 pistols (Kahr's QC and customer service is the worst in the industry IMNSHO :banghead: ) and a S&W J-frame revolver (timing badly off).
A few other guns have had minor glitches or defects, but the great majority have been fine right out of the box.

December 28, 2004, 10:42 PM
Mossberg 500A, safety broken twice then it quite bringing the shells to the chamber. Sent back to Mossberg twice on the safeties, threw it away on the thrid problem.

7.62x39 upper reciever on an AR (or XM) receiver. Good concept, just need companies to get with the program and make workable 7.62 mags in standard capacity (20/30/40 rounds).


December 29, 2004, 05:49 PM
My beloved Rem 572BDL, the first gun I ever bought myself, at age 16, right out of the box, would bind up when cycling. Dad called Remington, who paid shipping both ways, fixed the problem the first time, and the problem hasn't cropped up since. That was fifteen years ago, and the gun has had 25 or 30 bricks of .22's through it since then, with not one malf. Guys can bash big green if they want to, but my personal experience with them was great.

December 29, 2004, 05:52 PM
I had a 54cal Sharps Carbine were the hammer was bent to the point were it would not fire, right out of the box :(

Shipped to and from the manufacter and Fixed at $0 cost.

December 29, 2004, 07:45 PM
My wife has a SA Loaded Micro that FTE's every 2nd or 3rd round. We've tried several brands of FMJs, but still have the problem. I guess some defense ammo, and different magazines are in order. She swears that if it keeps up, she will sell it and buy a Para LDA Companion or Carry. I have the later, and it is sweet!!

December 29, 2004, 11:33 PM
Bushmaster Carbon 15 type 97 pistol. It will only shoot 1 shot and then it jams. I have to send it back to Bushmaster at my expense to have them fix it.

Before you send it back check the gas rings. The gaps in the rings should be spaced evenly. One at the 12, one at the 4 and on at the 8 o'clock position.

As far as my defective firearm goes. I baught a Charles Daly 1911. When the mags are fully loaded the first round will do a slight nose dive and stop cold on the feed ramp. I'm not sweating it to much as I have already spoken with the dealer and they said as long as I have my receipt they will fix it or replace it.

I forgot about that POS Remington .22 semi I baught around 15 years ago. I think it was called the Apache 77 or something like that. It was supposed to be the shiznit, being polymer and all that. Well that sumbitch jammed every 2 rounds. After an early attempt at some home gumsmithing that failed miserably, I disesemble it and threw it away. Did anyone else ever have one of these.

December 30, 2004, 02:29 AM
I sent a new Colt AR back to mill an indent in the upper receiver so the charging handle will lock. Mine didn't have the milled portion at all. It's at Colt now. I had to pay shipping. I hope to have it back (fixed) in a month.

December 30, 2004, 02:44 AM
Im just lucky I guess


December 30, 2004, 07:41 AM
Detonics Backup DAO in .45acp. I figured it to be the perfect carry gun - except for the fact that it would never get through five rounds without a failure to feed or failure to fire. It quickly left my collection.

Dave Markowitz
December 30, 2004, 08:04 AM
Purchased new:

Iver Johnson M1 Carbine. Bolt was too soft and eventually the locking lugs peened. Sent it back to IJ and they returned it with a new bolt. Eventually traded it off. (I have an Underwood Carbine now. :) )

Hesse-slapped Saiga. Hesse used soft fire control parts when they converted it to pistol grip config, and they started peening after aroun 180 - 200 rounds. Replaced them myself with a Tapco G2 FCG and gun is now 100%. Traded this one off to a friend for some carpentry work at my house.

Century SAR-1. Developed major trigger slap after ~200 rounds, although other than that it ran just fine. Did the fix found on Linx310's Romanian AK page and fixed most of it. Would've installed a G2 FCG if I hadn't traded it in. (I should have kept it and dumped the Hesse.)

Purchased used:

Ruger Mini-14, 182-series. A police trade-in that some numbnuts took apart and left out the gas port bushing during reassembly. The bushing not only controls the amount of gas tapped from the barrel, it also fixes the gas piston in place. Yet, the rifle worked fine for 50 rounds before it jammed up when the piston came loose. Installed a new bushing ( < $5 from Brownells) and now it is 100% with anything I put in it. This gun is a keeper!

Ruger Blackhawk .357/9mm convertible. A 1976 model that I bought virtually unused. The chambers in the .357 cylinder were rough and .357s would stick, although .38s extracted ok. Wound up trading this off towards my Marlin Camp 45.

December 30, 2004, 11:37 AM
Bushmaster XM15E2S most expensive POS I ever bought.

Brand new: 20 rounds later it starts stovepiping every other round. Let it cool down and it'd run for 20 rounds or so and then start stovepiping.

To top it off it took almost all of the adjust right clicks on the rear sight just to get on paper.

Sent it back to BM to fix. They fixed the stovepiping but didn't do anything about the overtorqued barrel problem.

Traded that POS away post haste - had it for less than 2 months and 1 month of that it was at BM. BM'll never, ever, ever get my money again.

Taurus Raging Bull - 44 Mag.
Didn't fail right out of the box but did within first 200 rounds. Center pin in the star was sticking in the depressed position when closing the cylinder. Gunsmith said it was due to it being a bit oversize and damaged due to recoil. He fixed it - runs fine now (very accurate revolver) but I won't be giving Taurus anymore of my money either.

December 30, 2004, 12:17 PM
S&W 411
Beretta 950
Lorcin L380 (first gun I fixed myself)
AMT DAO45 (fixed myself after three trips to the factory)
Taurus PT-22
Davis D38 Derringer

December 30, 2004, 01:30 PM
Springfield M1A. It's back at the factory for the second time. They've had it more than I have since I purchased it, literally.

Black Snowman
December 30, 2004, 01:42 PM
I got a Taurus 455 Ti from CDNN that, occasionally, the trigger wouldn't reset and the action was very very rough. Took it apart and detail cleaned it. There was sand, looked like sand blasting cilica, all over the inside of the gun. A good cleaning fixed it.

pete f
December 30, 2004, 03:10 PM
I bought a NIB Winchester 70 featherweight in 280 that would not close on factory ammo. Went to Ahlman's gun shop and they dropped a go no-go case gauge in it and it would not close, smith took a hand chamber reamer to it and fixed it in about five minutes no charge.

Bought a NIB unopened marlin 81 many years ago from Target. Got home and opened the box and pulled out bolt to look down bore and no light. nada, nothing. took a cleaning rod and it sounded metalic. I went to shop and got a .20 brass rod and started tapping, then rapping it, and finally whamming away on it. Switched ends and hit it from muzzle end almost immediately obstruction was moving and out popped a steel nubbin. Only thing it could have been was the button used to make the rifling. When you looked down the barrel there was a obvious change in the bore about a third of the way down. Target exchanged the rifle no questions asked.

Bought a NIB Remington 572 pump, would never feed more than two in a row.
Sent it back to Remington after less than 100 rounds. They sent it back to the shop 3 months later and said all fixed. Gunsmith and I looked at the box and it still had the same tape we had used to ship the box in. He called Remington and screamed for ten minutes and they said ship it right back. A week later the gun came back, new box, check to cover shipping twice, and letter appologising. A week later the gunsmith got another box from Remington with ten brick of .22 ammo and a letter saying sorry again.
I think they replaced the receiver because the machining inside it seemed better.

December 30, 2004, 03:56 PM
Not that I've bought a huge number of guns, but in 35 years I've yet to have one that didn't work right, new or used (purchased about 50/50)...And some of the used ones (including milsurps)were often well used....

sigma 40ve
December 30, 2004, 05:39 PM
Smith & Wesson model 10-- 3inch-- rd butt

I bought this back in the early 80's NIB. The first time to the range I shot 3 rds of factory 158 grain lead round nose and the cylinder "locked up". It took me about 20 minutes to get it unstuck. I foolishy tried one more round--same result. Another 20 minutes to get it unstuck.

I took it back to the store where I purchased it and they sent it back to the factory for repair. About 6 weeks later I got it back. I took it out to test it. I used a different brand and load for this--same thing again. I took it back to the store and they gave me full credit what I had paid towards a new Ruger Security Six.

I do regret the Smith wasn't right because I really liked the balance and the size of that pistol.

December 31, 2004, 01:28 AM
Kel-Tec P32. Failed to feed and extract right out of the box. FedExed it to KT, then got it back.

Still did not feed or extract at least once per magazine. Then it locked up, with the guide rod AND part of the spring protruding from the slide.

I spoke with Mr. "G.K.", who I thought was the owner of the company. He assured me that he'll fix the gun and refund my FedEx costs for both trips back to the factory.

Some time later, I got the gun back with no refund, a new spring and guide rod and the same failures to feed and extract with at least three different types of ammo.

The very name Kel-Tec sends shivers up my back now. :cuss:

December 31, 2004, 10:17 AM
Kimber Ultra Carry II Stainless. This was the most expensive handgun I had ever purchased. It fired OK, but had constant FTE and FTF. Kimber stated that I should go through the break in period, but after 700 rounds it still was not close to reliable. They changed the extractor, and I switched to McCormick magazines and have had no problems since. I'm still not sure that any semi-auto can match reliability of my S&W revolvers so my S&W 640 is still my favorite carry gun. If I ever need to use it, I hope I don't have to aim at anything further away than about 10 feet. With the Kimber I'm comfortable hitting a human size target at 10 yards, but I worry about having an FTE at the critical moment.

January 1, 2005, 10:06 AM
Not exactly right-out-of-the-box, but I bought a Kimber Ultra Elite, a one-year distribution, changed the name to the CDP series. After about 300 rounds, the extractor broke off. Kimber offered to send me a new one, but I told them I'd end up with 5 or 6 pieces left over if I replaced it! Overnighted it to them (my choice to do the overnight) and had it right back. 100% since; well, it was 100% before the break, too.

The thing that stands out to me in this thread, is that pretty much EVERY manufacturer is represented in the thread. It happens, regardless of quality control-the more items one makes, eventually one of them is going to be out-of-specifications.

January 3, 2005, 10:33 PM

In that any manufacturer can(and will) eventually have a faulty product go out the door, you are quite correct. For me, it is in the matter of how that manufacturer then handles the issue once this has occurred. In this some stand head-and-shoulders above the crowd, while still some others squirm in the mud beneath this same crowd.... and I've experienced both.

I'll leave it go at that.

January 4, 2005, 09:07 PM

How right you are! Should have thought to have added that myself.

January 4, 2005, 09:10 PM
Kel-Tec P32 .. half way through the second mag the slide locked and it was done for .. sent it to Kel-Tec to be fixed .. got it back and sold it .. will never buy one ever again .. it felt like crap anyway ...

January 4, 2005, 10:10 PM
Right out of the box: Kahr P40.

To their credit, they replaced it with no whining in a display of better than average customer service. Regrettably, it was replaced with another dog. I gave up on it but somehow still don't feel like complaining about their service - I got the impression they would have made it right, eventually, if I hadn't called a halt to the proceedings.

January 5, 2005, 10:28 AM
I had so much 'bad' with this one, I have tried to wipe it from memory..

Century Arms "CETME"...of the 18 months I "owned" this dog, approx 17 3/4 months were spent in transit to/from or in the hands of Century.....

If you pointed it straight down, you might or might not be able to hit the ground. Extraction/ejection was iffy at best...Brass would end up anywhere from right beside you to as much as 20 feet away. Brand/type of ammo did not make any difference.

Finally sold this one off to a shooting buddy, who also had a CAI Cetme, and wanted a parts gun. Took a $200 beating on this deal, but was glad to be rid of it. Disclosure included "I would only do 2 things with this [ahem] 'rifle'. One is a door stop, the other would be to fill mag well and barrel with concrete, to make a better impact weapon."

January 5, 2005, 10:38 AM
haven't read all the post through to the end. so if this has been stated forgive me. i've worked with/for two people that have worked for ruger.

they've told me that the guns are just assembled from the parts and put in the box (no test firing or tweeking) and sent out, YOU are the quality control. if any thing is wrong you have to bring it to their attention.

January 5, 2005, 11:00 AM
2 Auto-Ordnance 1911A1's, 20+ years apart.

First one, rear sight started drifting out of its dovetail on the first box of ammo. Didn't matter much, because, by the end of that box of ammo, the extractor had simply vanished! I have no explanation for that one, but it happened.

Second one, a year or so ago, The hammer simply refused to fall all the way about twice every magazine. This happened regardless of how tight or loose my grip, even when depressing the grips safety with both thumbs on an unloaded gun. :banghead:

Finally, an AWA Longhorn I bought for Cowboy games. The cross pin holding the cylinder in place would release and allow the cylinder pin to drift out under recoil almost once every cylinder full.

None of the above manufacturers ever returned phone calls or e-mails regarding the problems, but all were purchased from the same local dealer, who, with profuse apologies, offered credit, refund, or repair, my choice. He has earned my undying loyalty.

January 5, 2005, 11:32 PM
I didn't read the thread past the first post that started it. "Auto Ordnance"
struck a chord with me. I bought a new Auto Ordnance 1911 A-1 .45 ACP
about 15 years ago, by mail order. A relative of mine was a gunsmith, and
we saw an ad in the Shotgun News for A.O. .45 Auto's for $239. So I ordered
The gun looked good, but it had big problems. Tool marks in the throat of the barrel prevented the bullet from feeding smoothly. Deep grooves, across the throat. The nose of the bullet just dug in.
The biggest problem, though, was that the slide stop lug inside the magazine well was too long, and prevented cartridges from moving up and out of the magazine into the barrel chamber. My gunsmith uncle and I spent about six hours with a dremel tool and files working on the slide stop and the barrel throat.
I sent Auto Ordnance a "hellfire" letter telling them what I thought about their quality control. They sent me back a half-assed apology and a Thompson
sub-machine gun patch.
We got the A.O. gun working, and ran about a box of rounds through it.
I cleaned it, put it away, and haven't shot it since. :mad:

January 6, 2005, 01:13 PM
Remington 597. Defective right out of the box.

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