[jake01]

I have a S&W 642. It's great to carry but I can't shoot it!!!! Everytime I go to the range, I can only shoot it accurately up to about 12-15 feet. I've tried different ammo too. I carry Federal nyclad 125 g, non plus p.

With my Kahr P9, I can hit everthing at much longer ranges. The barrell length can't account for that much....can it?

The problem is that I'd much rather carry the 642 in my pocket. :rolleyes:

Any tips?

[Bacchus]

Snubs are best for close in use. Whenever I fire one, I can usually get good groups from 3 to 7 yards. Anything past that and the rounds shoot too low. Barrel length and sight radius are probably to blame.

[Greybeard]

The j-frames typically have far more inherent accuracy than the operators. But then, they are not intended to be 25-yard good groupers, altho some people can.

IMHO, very short sight radius and lousy rear sight (often just a groove) contribute to the problem. And lousy DAO triggers, especially on the Smiths of more recent production. (My 2-year old 340 went to the gunsmith twice and is still not as good as previous 342 or very old 36.)

And then again, in conjunction with the above, old eyes get to be a contributing factor, especially around 40 and beyond. Altho certainly not totally dependent upon, the Crimson Trace overmoulded laser grip has proven to be a very nice addition for quicker, longer range accuracy here. :D Handy too for seeing any undesireable last-instant movement during lots of (cheap) dry fire practice around the house. :)

[BigG]

Learning to work a double action trigger, especially on a lightweight revo is a matter for conscious practice. There is no royal road to snubby mastery, like Aristotle told Alexander about geometry, iirc.

[braindead0]

So true, I've shot decent 25yd groups with a 2" snubby (an EAA Windicator no less, they just cut off the 4" barrel and don't even re-crown it). It's certainly possible, but I do find things easier with my 4" gp-100..

[BigG]

Sorry, that prior reference should have been Euclid according to Google. So, if I may be so bold I will offer the following aphorism to posterity. You saw it first on THR, folks!

"There is no royal road to snubby mastery." George

[38Mike]

Jake,

Hang in there, like others said, it just takes work...lots, lots, lots
of practice.

Also, you might try loads with different bullet weights. I've got a fairly new 442 that shoots very low and to the right ( at 7 yds. )
with the 125-130 grain loads. I tryed 158gr. lead and I'm shooting
point of aim..........

good luck,

Mike

[44]

At about 20 feet, use the sights until you get the right grip and trigger roll, and are hitting with no problem. From there on it's easy, one-hand or two. A great feeling when you cross this line.

But you have to keep practicing. I shoot mostly one-handed, with a titanium 340PD.

[P95Carry]

I'm afraid yeah .... IMO the short answer is ''practice'' ........ lots of it. My M85 Taurus is a summer carry piece .. and I almost always practice D/A only (it has a very smooth D/A I might add too)... after all, that's the way you'd most likely need it .... ''up close and personal''.

However . I do and always have, check out a few S/A shots at greater distance .. just to know it can ''reach'' ..... have to aim off a tad to right always but .. if it were a case of connecting with COM at say, 20 - 25 yds ... it'll cut it!! At least I know that.;)

[Mike Irwin]

Short sight radius, low profile (read hard to use) sights, and normally a butt that doesn't fit the hand well all contribute to problems shooting small-frame revolvers.

All I can say is practice, practice, practice.

And then, practice some more.

[M1911]

Like the other folks have said. The short sight radius, non-existent rear sight, and long hard trigger pull all conspire to make them difficult to shoot accurately. Now you see why I don't advocate the titanium and scandium revolvers. To shoot a snubbie accurately, you've got to practice a lot. And you're not going to practice a lot with a 15 oz .357 :what:

[Jim March]

Ya know, it's barely possible the gun is a lemon!

Do the checkout :).

[10-Ring]

Off a bench rest, my j-frame shoots very accurately. I'm sorry I figured that out because now all I can do is blame me :(

[dairycreek]

But, because of the shortened sight radius are more difficult to shoot accurately. But they can be mastered! As others here have said the secret is practice, practice, practice. It is indeed a challenge to "master" a snubby but it shure is a great accomplishment and a lot of fun as well. Good shooting')

[rock jock]

I have heard it stated before that the length of the barrel has no effect whatsoever on the stabilization of the bullet. This seems inherently illogical. Isn't there some minimum percentage of a complete twist that the bullet must make before exiting the barrel? Based on the aforementioned logic, a bullet fired out of a one-inch barrel would be as completely stabilized in flight (minus the effects, if any, from the reduced velocity) as from a twelve-inch barrel with identical twist and land/groove pattern.

[Blueduck]

Lousy sights and heavy trigger pull of most J frames (especially compared to the weight of the gun) are the primary factors to make them hard to shoot well not short barrels IMHO.

I have a 2 1/2" K-frame with great sights, great trigger, and more weight than any J-frame. Did quite well with it at the last THR mail in shoot. In fact I won my class (hope no notices I was the only one in that particular class:uhoh: )

Seriously I've found as I get older I actually shoot 4" guns better than 6" ones just because it's easier to get that perfect crystal clear front sight picture on the closer front sight. Maybe some day I'll shoot my 2 1/2" guns best of all :D

[Old Fuff]

During my misspent youth I would sometimes show off by dropping six shots out of an older Colt Detective Special into the center of a police silhouette target at a measured 100 yards. This might, or might not sound outstanding, but the truth is there were plenty of others I knew who could do the same thing. That old Colt had a bigger grip then today’s run-of-the-mill S&W “J” frames and was splendidly accurate. Yes, the short sight radius did make a difference, but thanks to the Army’s Small Arms Training School at Camp Perry I knew the basics, including the need to focus my eye on the front sight, not the target. In other words the sight picture had to be in sharp focus with the target image blurred. This is important in any case, but it is particularly true when one has a very short sight radius.

A lot of today’s shooters have not been as lucky as I was when it comes to marksmanship training. I believe that any quality snub-nose revolver with “controllable” ammunition (most likely not +P) will shoot into a 4-inch circle at 25 yards if the shooter does his or her part. Of course using a larger, heavier revolver with a longer barrel will help. But the “snubby” can be mastered – if and only when the shooter understands and practices the correct principals of handgun marksmanship. Otherwise simply practicing may make the situation worse.

[Mastrogiacomo]

I can't hit the side of a barn with my 442. The only cure for that is practice. Damn!:banghead:

[Jim March]

One trick I use: shooting from a weaver, I find that with the right grips on my snub, I can get a good hold that lines my forearm bones up with the ejector rod/cylinder pin of the gun, in a "single straight line".

At that point, everything just "clicks". I can do it on a K-Frame-class of course or anything with that grip (if it's round-butt!), and most SAs except the SBH large grip.

But not Glocks or 1911s, they just feel "completely wrong" and I can't shoot 'em for squat.

[Prodigalshooter]

Good point Jim. It never ceases to amaze me how one person will love the way a particular handgun feels, the next guy hates it, same size hand yet! Hard to explain that "feel", that is so personal. That's sorta what makes it interesting too!

[dude]

"I have a S&W 642. It's great to carry but I can't shoot it!!!! Everytime I go to the range, I can only shoot it accurately up to about 12-15 feet."



If you need to shoot any further ..............the 642 is the wrong weapon!!
A sub with a bigger grip like the Taurus ones with the 'ribber' grips will improve your acuraccy at longer ranges, but are not to good for CCW.

I bought a 1000 rounds of .38 FMJ full/flush wadcutter relaods a year or so back that I shoot through my Taurus 617T titanium snub .357 for training. They shoot like .22s and have given me a great feel for where my point of aim is with the little blue lightweight beast. I always shoot a few cylinders of full power .357 mags at each training session and can put them to the same point of aim out to 10 yards or so. I still have a 100 or so left and just to keep current I will get another 1K at the next gunshow.

My 617T is not for CCW but rather the go-to gun for aroud the house and my river walking piece for fishing when traveling light. The small invetment in the 1K of reloads was well worth now being familiar enough to shoot by point rather than sighting down the barrel as if I need this thing, it will most likely be in the dark.

[Jim March]

If there was a real crisis that called for a 50yard shot and all I had was my snubby, I'd take a whack at it. I'd cock it first mind you :) but I've done some target shooting at that distance and trust the little critter.

[Mike Irwin]

"50 yard shot... cock it first..."

Hum...

I'll have to practice cocking my Smith 042... :)

[makdaddy03]

I really dont understand this either. I shoot my snubbies just as well as my other guns.

[22luvr]

First, the unlikely deadly encounter will occur within a few feet, probably in an area the size of the average home bedroom.

Second, snubs DO require regular practice and the right techniques. I tend to shoot at short distances, shoot DA only, and as quickly as I can acquire my target.

Third, grip is vital to me. I utilize a very strong, tight, wraparound grip which is secure and minimizes recoil dramatically.

What results am I aiming for? To empty my 5 rounds rapidly into an 8" pie plate at 5-7 yards. That's hitting "center-of-mass" effectively.

[BigG]

I've found that 158 grain ammo prints to point of aim moreso than the wunderblitz Patrone neuer Art.

I think Old Fuff's advice really encapsulated what I was trying to say. Watch the front sight and pull thru on the trigger the target should be a blur.

[Quantrill]

Put a grip on a model 36 that fits your hand and then (as Mike says) practice, practice practice. Review the basics all over again. I have seen 36's whup some pretty decent target revolvers. Quantrill

[Unisaw]

Dry fire daily, concentrating on only three things:
Proper, consistent grip
Front sight focus
Proper double action trigger pull

Don't worry about speed, that can come later.

[Gordon]

When I was plainclothes in the Army 71-73 I was issued S&W Mod 12 2" barrel. I had to qualify on regular 45 range every 6 months with ball issue ammo (130 grain as I remember) and had to compensate for the guns slightly low right impact, BUT it did group as well as the .45's I was shooting against. Some of the older range NCO's shot the .45 real well too. Old Fuff was right again, at Camp Perry they taught you real good about front sight in sharp focus, I went in 64&65 with ROTC team. My mod 19 2.5" shoots as tight as my 3 1/2" 27 or 6" Mod 19. My Colt snubbies shoot real well too, just got to hold em and squeeze em.

[Topgun]

My CCW has 2 of em....M36 and M640.

Qual scores were 292/300 and 296/300 last time.

You don't have to just practice with the snubbies. Good practices with ANY handgun will suffice. If the sights are aligned properly and you are not yanking the trigger or flinching, they will shoot just fine.

Sure, practice with em once in a while and as often as you like, but IMO, just plain handgun practice will serve you just fine.

You don't hear of many worries about the 4" barrel being so hard to shoot as opposed to the 6"

People just THINK they are hard and they handicap themselves.

Get the hold, trigger control, sight picture right and your handgun will hit what you aim at.

I find that ONE HAND offhand shooting at 25 yards is my BEST and MOST EFFECTIVE practice. 25 yard offhand groups are good indicators of your ability. Then 2 handed seems like a sandbag.

[BigG]

Good practice with ANY handgun will suffice.

Basically what I was trying to say. I would specify a REVOLVER as DA trigger work takes some getting used to. A nice K-frame like a M&P (mod 10) will give you all the practice you need on accurate double action revo work but it IS WORK before it gets to be FUN.

[mashaffer]

When I had my dearly departed Chief's Special it was deadly accurate beyond 25 yards firing SA. DA I was in trouble beyond 10 yards.

[22luvr]

My wife's uncle was a bank robbery investigator with the LAPD. He has a venerable old model 36, the original "Chief's special." He toted that gem around his entire career. One slick little gun; I wish He'd sell it to ME. (not likely in my lifetime)

[jake01]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll try some of your advice.

Right now, I'm using 125g fed Nyclad non +P. I'll try some 158 g ammo.

[Poohgyrr]

Old Fuff and others have it right. I've seen other shooters (not meself) shoot the snub J frames well out past 25 yards. It definitely can be done, just takes more parctice.

I have had fun shooting steel at 75 yards with a snub Speed Six against a bud's 6" Python, but I shot single action seated at a bench, and he shot dbl action standing up. I hit the steel at least as often as he did :)..

[Kahr carrier]

Nothing .It just takes PRACTICE .:)

[SteelyDan]

Has anyone mentioned "practice" yet?

Also, since no one else has mentioned it, there is one little trick with the _42s. You can zero in on the target, pull the trigger about 3/4 of the way, until you hear the second click, then re-zero-in and pull the trigger the rest of the way. Not too useful in defensive situations, but it works well on paper.

[Okiecruffler]

I can hit 3 inch plates at 35 yrds all day long with my Taurus 650. If I'm playing with paper, the groups shrink abit with my Rossi M88. But I cut my teeth on a snubby (an old S&W model 37, wish that was in my collection today) and have never been without one. In case no one's mentioned it, it takes practice, just like any other firearm, but honestly, if you can put 5 inside 6 inches at 7 yrds, it should be adaquate for it's intended use.

[sm]

Have to agree with Mike Irwin: short sight radius, low profile sights...gun fit.
Of course I always mention gun fit, regardless of platform.
Practice, with a proper fitting firearm , always good idea.

[twoblink]

Shooting DA; I can't hit paper past 7 yards. Shooting SA, I can keep that group down to 4" WAY out there..

IT's the trigger man.. Your Kahr has a smooth long trigger that you are use to. Revolver DA's all suck except on the Colt Pythons that I've shot. It takes a lot of practice, or an SA.

It's accurate, you just aren't with it. Usually the story with Snubbies.

[280PLUS]

I'm getting a kick out of all you folkies with your big 'ol hand cannons that can't shoot a decent group. especially with a snubbie. Just a FRACTION of an inch of movement of the muzzle upon firing is multiplied downrange enough to make you miss the paper let alone the bullseye. If you are not shooting a decent group you are not consistent in your trigger pull end of story, as long as the gun is not defective. Dry firing (while protecting the gun from damage ) is the best way to see that because you are not preoccupied with the fact that the gun is about to fire and you can actually see the movement of the gun when you pull the trigger. You'll be surprised how much you're actually moving the gun while pulling the trigger. I suggest you dry fire 30 to 50 times each session BEFORE you ever fire your first live round. Once you can do that and see NO movement in the gun when the hammer falls then i would do about 25 or so single shot, loading a new round between each shot. Another thing, if, after firing, you do not have a feel for where the round went on the target that is fairly correct in terms of where it actually went ("CALLING" your shot) then, without realizing it, you are involuntarily blinking, therefore your eyes are actually CLOSED at the exact time the gun has fired and cannot register the fact that the muzzle did in fact move as the gun fired. hence, you think you were aiming at the bull but the round is out or off the paper entirely and you just can't understand why.

more later, if you all would like. Ive been shooting decent groups out at 25 yards with that .32 mag snubbie ive been raving about, least ways i'm hitting the paper, (what 8" x 8"?) which aint bad for 25 yds.

PS, when I was working on my "Expert" rating in U.S Navy bootcamp (I qualified with a 298 at 50" with a .45, two hands, open sights, 18 y.o., never shot a handgun before) you shoot dry fire forever and then when they thought you were ready one shot at a time until you shot a perfect slow fire target, only then would they let you advance to timed and rapid fire. Meaning, maybe you all are taking it too fast and need to back up and start with the basics again. Just a thought.

m

[LAWDOGKMS]

Get a competent local gunsmith to do an action job on your 642..

I did...

It shouldn't cost more than $50.00.

The smith can put some mildly abrasive grease that will smooth up the action even more as you dry fire or shoot it over the next year or so..

My 1-year old 642 is silky smooth..

I also "almost" dry fire it alot, rolling on the trigger until I hear/feel the hammer locks back internally and the hammer is ready to fall internally, and then let off before actually dropping the hammer.

I can fire my 642 like a single action, because I practice this so much...

I love my 642......

[280PLUS]

yea, i like that trigger rolling youre talking about too. i like to practice finding that pause spot in between cocking and firing on mine. click, squeeze...click, squeeze...

i'm satisfied with the trigger out of the box but its really the only revolver i've shot for any period of time, it seems to have broken in ok. kind of heavy maybe but i thinking thats what i want.

a little more about calling shots. i'm shooting .22ruger mkII with a red dot at 50 ft right now. on the good days i'll pull a shot and think, hmmm,,,felt low and left, then when i spot it its on the 10 ring at about 7 o'clock. i love those days.

:p

m

"Happiness is a warm shotgun, when you're outside and it"s 10 degrees"

Anon.

[Poohgyrr]

Twoblink,

Hey !!! I've fondled and drooled over some nice Python actions, but Smiths' dbl action triggers can yes indeedy be verrrrrrryyyy smooth, sweet, and accurate !!!!!

My 640-1 is way more accurate than I ever expected, especially in my hands and with my aging eyesight. I routinely make one hole groups at 25' with maggies. Better shooters do even better than that. This is the second 640-1 I've been able to do this with, and I should have kept that other one.

This isnt EVEN discussing the fantastic K & N frame actions out there. My old 4" 686 (no dash #) was very good, smooth, and accurate as well. Its' new owner, a friend's wife, is so happy with it she laughs at the idea of selling it back to me and tells me to sit down and have some homemade pie :)...

Dry fire practice goes a very long way and is one of the advantages of revolvers. My wonderful S&W's do so have accurate smooth triggers. They do they do they do...
:neener:

[280PLUS]

just looked at the 640 on the s&w site, hmmm, very nice and how is the recoil with that one? its got to be better than the airlite. darn, now i really do have to go back to s&w i mean, you got the .50 cal, then i'm pretty sure im staying away from the .44 mag airlite:D then i see tamaras medium frame lightweight .44 special, now the 640,,,what can one do? what was the price on that 640?
i could see that one in a holster under my arm for certain occasions.

m

[Poohgyrr]

My 640 was about $350 back then. That was $100 less then other local shops, and I scooped it up. UM boot grips and the steel frame help with the recoil, but maggies still kick more than .38's (and .38's have worked well for a lot of folks).... It is entirely manageable for me, but followup shots are slower than , say, a S&W 908 or G27. I readily admit I do not want to shoot one of the new Ti models, my hand hurts just thinking about that.

You really can't go wrong with any good Smith, each has its strong points, but they all are good.