Has a .50 BMG handgun ever been made?


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Molon Labe
December 27, 2004, 11:35 AM
There's an interesting discussion on this topic at the SDMB:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=293627&page=1&pp=50

While there appears to be a some grainy pics floating around of an alleged Maadi-Griffin .50 BMG handgun, and a few obvious fakes (see www.birdman.org), no one in the above thread has produced genuine documentation that a real, working .50 BMG handgun has ever existed.

So here are my questions:

1. Does anyone have any firsthand knowledge / documentation / proof that someone has manufactured a .50 BMG handgun?

2. Does anyone have any firsthand knowledge / documentation / proof that someone has shot a .50 BMG handgun?

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50 Shooter
December 27, 2004, 11:50 AM
Yes, there was one at the SHOT show last year but it was a prototype. Here's the link to the Thunder .50 BMG handgun http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=729715

The Mfg was asked to not produce it, if they ever do it will be the end of all surplus .50 ammo.

50 Shooter
December 27, 2004, 11:57 AM
Forgot to add that Birdman's Maadi Griffin was registered as a SBR (short barrel rifle).

azrael
December 27, 2004, 12:06 PM
50 shooter,
Couldnt the BATF excempt the 50ap rounds, kinda like they did with the ss109 .223 rounds?

50 Shooter
December 27, 2004, 12:19 PM
I don't think so, it's made as AP. Isn't SS 109 just made with a steel core as part of the whole bullet to stabilize it? Might be able to get .50 BMG ball ammo exempt but it's still made with a solid steel core.

While the .50 BMG pistol is a neat idea as far as different ideas go, it just seems like a waste. You'd have to download it alot or you'd be wasting alot of powder, plus the torque it would be putting on your wrist, muzzle flash... Of course I wouldn't mind shooting it atleast once. :D

cordex
December 27, 2004, 12:21 PM
I've held one, but like Birdman's it was technically registered as an SBR, though it wasn't wearing the stock at the time. Also had a suppressor that came with the package (or so I was told by the guy selling it). Salesman said that to his knowledge it had never been fired, but he was trying to get someone with .50BMG loading dies to make him some mild loads so he could try it.

Harry Tuttle
December 27, 2004, 12:37 PM
http://www.custom-glock.com/shotday4/shotday4-Images/19.jpg

Southern Raider
December 27, 2004, 12:45 PM
Couldnt the BATF excempt the 50ap rounds, kinda like they did with the ss109 .223 rounds?
No, the ATF must follow the law. "Armor piercing" ammo from the legal sense has nothing to do with its penetrating ability, but instead is linked to bullet construction and materials,

http://assembler.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000921----000-.html
18USC921(a)(17)(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

larryw
December 27, 2004, 04:50 PM
Take a close look at Harry Tuttle's picture. See that lady's arm in the background? There were pictures and video shown in the booth of that same petite lady shooting MilSurp from that gun (complete with a 10 foot long fireball). :what:

They were at the SHOT Show looking for a manufacturer, but I don't know what came of it (they got my vote for best of show). Very impressive nitrogen gas recoil system (rods at the bottom and you can see how the barrel slides in the receiver) made it seem manageable. That lever in the back is the rotating breech block for loading.

...I have more pictures of that around here somewhere...

Wakal
December 27, 2004, 04:51 PM
Saw one built up from a Deuce barrel stub on a 1911 frame, with a long hammer and a huge muzzle brake. Wish I had a camera.

He wouldn't let us shoot it, though. Meanie.





Alex

azrael
December 27, 2004, 06:04 PM
thanks 50 and Southern...I was wondering about that...If I had a .50 I would most certainly be looking into reloading for it...

It has to be only a matter of time, before someone makes a pistol for it and the Batmen declare the mil-surp stuff illegal..

Would like to shoot one of those..well at least once.. :p

Pappy John
December 27, 2004, 06:08 PM
Can you all say "carpal tunnel surgery"? I knew that you could. ;)

azrael
December 27, 2004, 06:10 PM
Pappy JOhn,
I hadnt even thought of that...With my arm messed up, I can't even use my 870 effectively much less a cannon like that...GRRRRRRRRRR! :cuss:

ALS
December 27, 2004, 07:14 PM
There is a company out of Ohio that makes some very large Caliber single shot Handguns. Check out the Encore cartridge offerings.

Also check out the 14.5 mm JDJ rifle
SSK has non Destructive Device exemption for a 14.5 MM (.585") cartridge.

The 14.5 MM JDJ is based on the 50 BMG case. The neck is opened to accept the SSK 1173 grain bullet loaded over 235 grains of 5010 to fire form the case. Other bullets may become available in the near future.

In the test rifle 100 yard accuracy hovers between .3 and .5" with this fireform load. Velocity is chronographed at 26--2700 feet per second with the 1173 grain bullet. My worst 300 yard three shot group with it is 1.509". The 750 Barnes is a real performer at 3000 FPS. Dies are in stock. Actions suitable for the 50 BMG are the ONLY ones that will take this cartridge.

SSK Industries (http://www.sskindustries.com/)

50 Shooter
December 27, 2004, 08:05 PM
I know they offer the 14.5mm in a rifle, they don't offer it in a pistol do they?

tim71
December 27, 2004, 09:23 PM
I live in missouri and my local TV station had a segment called "made in the heartland" and a couple years ago they did a report on someone in missouri who made custom bolt action .50 BMG guns and one was a pistol and they showed the man firing it on TV and it didn't kick that much; of course it was HUGE. I saw it on the internet too, it wasn't that hard to find.

I saw something similar in a magazine too and if I remeber right it lost alot of velocity out of the shorter barrels.

Tim

Stevie-Ray
December 28, 2004, 02:17 AM
How bout this? :eek:

Taurus 66
December 28, 2004, 03:01 AM
Stevie, where can I get that revolver??? I want one.

stealthmode
December 28, 2004, 06:46 AM
ive seen that pic of the revolver before, thats awesome. im glad someone posted it i wanted to save it. thanks

HiWayMan
December 28, 2004, 11:58 AM
Not to spoil the fun, but ??WHY??

Oh wait...cause we can.

Molon Labe
December 28, 2004, 12:10 PM
That revolver looks a lot like this one:

http://www.pfeifer-waffen.at/Zeliska2.pdf

If it's the same revolver, then it's chambered for .600 NE, not .50 BMG.

But even still, it's a big gun! :D

Yooper
December 28, 2004, 12:49 PM
The 50 BMG handgun was really worth the design time/effort. I can think of a thousand uses for it. :neener:

Southern Raider
December 28, 2004, 01:59 PM
...in missouri who made custom bolt action .50 BMG guns and one was a pistol and they showed the man firing it on TV and it didn't kick that much
50BMG requires a 36"+ barrel to reach 2600fps or so. I can't imagine the velocity being anywhere near that in a pistol barrel, hence a big reason for the lighter recoil.

The amount of unburned powder coming out of that pistol must be staggering...

moxie
December 28, 2004, 02:08 PM
Please forward 500USD via PayPal to my account for proof of existence of this gun, photos of its firing and complete reloading data. Photos of Venusian LEO firing it are extra. Inquire for particulars.

tim71
December 28, 2004, 11:45 PM
Wow! Would that photo make liberals mad or what? I'd love to know more about that gun. Both for that matter. You can tell by looking at the photos it's not the same gun. Either one would be unbelievable. The pistol I was talking about was a big bolt action single. I had no idea that something like these revolvers existed.

Tim

Harry Tuttle
December 29, 2004, 12:34 AM
http://gamma.nic.fi/~3072/pics/RP-98%20B2%20one%20hand.gif

heres birdmans rig:
http://www.sksboards.com/sksinfo/50bmgpistol.jpg

he had a funny photoshop of a lady shooting it and loosing her limbs

BluesBear
December 29, 2004, 01:08 PM
Well then under 18USC921(a)(17)(B)(i) the Barnes X-bullets should be considered armor piercing.


ANY cartridge COULD be fired in some sort of handgun.


And no the two revolvers Stevie-Ray posted are NOT Pfeifer-Zeliska revolvers.
The P-F is much smaller and it has a prawl on the grip. The mystery 50 revolver is much bigger and has a standard plowhandle grip.
The P-F is actually able to be held in one hand AND fired.

tim71
December 29, 2004, 08:06 PM
You can tell that .600 nitro is much smaller. Also, if you notice on the mystery 50 the pic is dated 93 in the lower right corner. I'd like to have one of those just as a conversation piece if nothing else. Also, immagine if you showed up at the indoor firing range with that!

Tim

Southern Raider
December 30, 2004, 11:46 AM
Well then under 18USC921(a)(17)(B)(i) the Barnes X-bullets should be considered armor piercing.


ANY cartridge COULD be fired in some sort of handgun.
Yes, but the Barnes stuff is bullets. It wouldn't become legally AP until loaded into a recognized handgun cartridge. FWIW, the Thompson Center chamberings don't seem to qualify, for some reason. The ATF only seems to take notice when a real pistol is made, like the AR15 pistols in 7.62x39.

It's their system, it doesn't have to make sense to us.

pezo
December 31, 2004, 12:28 AM
I apologize for my lack of knowledge on the .600 nitro express but were those rounds going for like $100 a shell, or was it the .700 nitro? hmmm

InfernoMDM
December 31, 2004, 04:37 AM
Are 50 BMG's illegal to manufacture?

BluesBear
December 31, 2004, 08:42 AM
It's their system, it doesn't have to make sense to us.
AMEN to that!

The Barnes ARE loaded in handgun ammo. The Taurus .45 ammo is an example and there's another company doing it but their name escapes me right now.

Southern Raider
January 3, 2005, 04:32 PM
The Barnes ARE loaded in handgun ammo. The Taurus .45 ammo is an example and there's another company doing it but their name escapes me right now.
Ahhh...You'll notice that the Taurus ammo is always found in HP. If it were made FMJ/TMJ, it would be AP ammo no question. Although the HP configuration fulfills the legal description of AP, I think the ATF was wise enough to notice that it would never penetrate anything remotely armored and thus exempted it. Either that, or they consider the core to be made from air...

BluesBear
January 3, 2005, 06:47 PM
Either that, or they consider the core to be made from air...
Now that is a brilliant example of bureaucratic logic.

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