[s&w 24]

If you were picking a caliber for a NEF rifle that was going with you on a extended trip to northern MN for canoeing,hunting, and trapping what would you pick? For dangers you could run into black bear, moose, wolves, and feral house pets. For hunting you would be covering deer, rabbit, squirrels, and grouse.

to help pick the pistol look here

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=147305#post147305

[Pheonix]

.308 best all-around for under 800 yds.

[GW45]

Marlin lever action in .357 Magnum, iron sights, and a wide range of different weights from 110gr to 180gr - to handle whatever came up.

[Keith]

I'll second the .357 Mag. The heavier loads are at least credible for black bear defense (from a rifle) and you could use .38 specials for small game. Come to think of it they also make shotshells in .357....

You could do the same with .44 mag/.44 Special and they also make shotshells for that.

It's pretty hard to choose one caliber for everything from squirrels to moose, but I think those would fill the niche as good as anything.

Keith

[Keith]

Now I'll take all that back (after looking at the list) and say the .410/.45 Colt would be the best all around choice. With one caveat that the .45 Colt is capable of handling stout loads, not just the anemic black powder equivalent loads.

Keith

[Kentucky Rifle]

The new Marlin 1894 that the wife is getting me for our 25th anniversary is in .357 mag. So, I voted for .357.:)

KR

[jjmorgan64]

For that range of targets, I think i'd have to go with a 12 guage, slugs for bigger, shot for smaller.

[Kharn]

.45/70. If I only get one shot, I want the target to go down.

Kharn

[CaesarI]

These NEF single shot rifles weigh about 5.5 lbs if you get the Superlight model, which limits you to the .243 Win. Or 7lbs if you get the larger calibers.

The Kimber 84M comes in Calibers up to .308 and provides 5 shots in the same, or less weight (5.1lbs - 5.6lbs). The primary disadvantage I can see is the greater length, and its only 3-6 inches, which can be trimmed by 2 inches, cutting the barrel to 20".

But I'm rather smitten with the rifle, so my opinion on the matter may be biased.

Even dropping the Kimber 84M, cause let's suppose we're on a budget that precludes $800 rifles, the Remington Model 7 is 6.25lbs with a 20" barrel and more rounds in the magazine.

Part of the reason I'm insisting on the greater capacity is that it really sucks to miss if you're shooting a bear. Single loading under-stress is not something I'd enjoy doing. Additionally it gives you the option of keeping your lighter loads for deer, squirrel, rabbit, grouse in the chamber and a full magazine of bear loads. The procedure then being: See bear. Eject round in chamber. Chamber bear round. Shoot bear.

If you want a gun that will take bear... the .22 hornet should prolly not be on the list. The 45-70 is the most powerful round on the list (loaded to modern levels), but then you get to shoot 45-70's at squirrels, and rabbits, which... while interesting... effective, certainly isn't efficient.

-Morgan

[Art Eatman]

I'd prefer a MilSurp rifle, with a decent, soft buttpad installed. And some good .22 pistol, self-loader. Colt Huntsman or a Ruger...

Relatively inexpensive, hard to hurt, easy to maintain.

Art

[Fatelvis]

I like a 5" Smith 44. I think this is one of the most versitile rounds around, especially for the handloader. Bear isnt a problem with heavy loads, and light loads and headshots for rabbit/sqirrel. I like to make sure I use "enough gun". A handgun makes much more sense to me, keeping your hands free.

[COHIBA]

four
four
four.

[Ikari]

I'd be leaning towards .357, with a Ruger GP-100 as an accompanying handgun.

[MLC]

I'm definitely not one to shun the big bores, BUT, in a light little rifle like the NEF I'd go for the 280 Rem. Sadly it is placed at the bottom of the list. In 7mm one has a broad range of bullet weights available in a cartridge that is no slouch.
Do you handload?

[labgrade]

For the asked about/intened use = "NEF rifle that was going with you on a extended trip to northern MN for canoeing,hunting, and trapping what would you pick? For dangers you could run into black bear, moose, wolves, and feral house pets. For hunting you would be covering deer, rabbit, squirrels, and grouse."

From you list, personally, I'd go with a Contender handgun in the .410/45 Colt. (I know nothing about the NEFs), but the TC's right up there with being able to use a stouter load than normal.
Playing around a bit with that barrel currently to wring out what it'll really do - we'll see.

The .410 will likely require a screw-in "choke-thing" to prevent the pattern turning into a doughnut, but for just small game hunting, that's really no big deal = you'll have the time.

A 300 gr hard cast .45 cal bullet at ~1200 fps is no slouch.

Although the TC is attractive, think I'd go with a 12 ga - just too versitile not to take. Stoke it with slugs/buck & you're ready for anything within defensive range & switch out for small game when you'll do that.

I'd add a lightweight .22 handgun just for grins.

[ruger357]

.357 to go with both my rifle and handgun.

[Brian Williams]

in the NEF I pick 357.

I would pick 45 but they are terrible accuracy wise cause of the 410 chamber
I would ask this question here if you like NEF
http://www.hr1871.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi

[LIProgun]

This is a tall order to fill. I think your primary criteria should be the expected use: Hunting deer, rabbit, squirrels, and grouse. I think the expectation of use for small game like rabbit and squirrel, and even upland birds, tends to go against a high-power cartridge like .308 or .30-06, though one like that might be my first choice for deer and defense from bear, moose or wolves.

With .45 Colt, you could use standard power ammo with non-expanding bullets to cleanly take small game without too much meat or pelt damage (compared to a .308, for example). With heavy loads and serious bullets (e.g., heavy, hard-cast SWCs) you could easily take deer and black bear sized game, and still have something reasonably effective to ward off the dangers you mentioned. I have no personal experience with .410, but I presume you could use that on grouse and small game as well.

[Art Eatman]

I've spent a fair amount of time in wilderness country. A couple of five-day canoe trips in the Lower Canyons of the Rio Grande, where you're a good 20- to 40-mile walk to the nearest sign of civilization if things go wrong. (That first 1,000 feet is a booger. Straight up. After that, the cactus is easy to deal with.) Numerous week-long sojourns in the Solitario back country, where I was the only person in some hundred-thousand acres--with no park rangers or game wardens or even other sightseers.

Hunting and trapping and meddling around? A chance of dumping a canoe and wetting down most of your gear?

I've never worried at all about mountain lions. I guess about the only time I'd worry about bears would be around camp, with meat or hides hanging. I guess I gotta stay with my first choices...

:), Art

[22luvr]

I'll take that Marlin Guide gun in 45/70 with the ported barrel. This tenderfoot, raised in the suburbs, wants something that will take down man or beast with one shot. B-O-O-M.

[scotjute]

The 12 gage is the only gun that adequately handles the complete range of game you have mentioned, from squirrels to moose/black bear. No single caliber of rifle is going to be suitable for that range of game, as its either too small for some or way too powerful for the others. Art's suggestion sounds good.
If this is a hunting trip, I'd take rifle suited for the game I was after. If pressed use it for self-defense.
If this is a pleasure trip, then I'd tend to pick larger caliber gun for bear defense. 12 gage single shots would cover the gamut of game you have described and are cheap (in case canoe capsizes).

[Sven]

.30 Carbine - just an odd-ball suggestion.

Working off the assumption that your primary food in northern minnesota would be small light 'game', and that you would need to haul around a ton of ammo without a pickup truck.

The M1 is lightweight and won't slow you down with snow-shoes.

[labgrade]

Perfessr,

"I would pick 45 but they are terrible accuracy wise cause of the 410 chamber."

That's what I've heard & may run into it with my TC barrel - the jump to lead's just too long.

I've read (somewhere on the 'net) that some guy was working with something along the lines of a .45 "mongo" .... (mumble) something-or-other. Essentially a .444 Marlin loaded to 45 Colt-stuff - helped to eliminate that jump.

Any ideas or pointers?

(& sorry for being too specific - as if) ;)
Please do respond if any have heard of this "conversion."

Me too as far as spending a boat-load of time out in the boonies & ya know what? a firearm has never once played into the scheme of things - not once. (It has in the cities though.) Something to consider.

I'll always have a shooter of some sort where ever I go, that's just me (The Motto, et al), but other than having the "capability," it's never been needed.

Can't argue with Art's choice (& do slide a .22 handgun in there somewhere - just too handy not to have), but I'd still go for a 12 ga - does so much more than any rifle can - within reasonable range - for what you're looking at.

& just gotta ask, s&w 24, are you going to be doing this during an actual hunting season? or "just going off" to have a fun time/yada?

[/wondering]

[s&w 24]

well if your going to trap you better do it in season. Being trapped in the citys all the time wakes me want to take a trip like this for 2 or 3 months to get away from all this. To save on wieght I would probably pack in a lee loader and a single cavity bullet mold, I got that idea from Skeeter Skelton.

[Bruce H]

Take a NEF in.22 cal. Carry both short and long rifle cartridges. Know where both shoot with the same sight setting. Bone up on being aware of your surroundings. A better choice would be a .22 over a 20 gauge for this adventure. Carry plenty of fishing tackle.

[Keith]

I think some of you are missing the point. The odds of being attacked by wild beasts in Minnesota are a million to one - with the possible exception of some neighborhoods in St. Paul...

What's needed is something that will feed you. Small game is much more plentiful than big game and small game is most easily procured with a shotgun of some type.

A light pump gun would probably be the best overall choice, but that's not on the list.

Keith

[labgrade]

"To save on wieght I would probably pack in a lee loader and a single cavity bullet mold, I got that idea from Skeeter Skelton."

Do the "cost/weight/analysis" - thing is you'll find that just taking loaded rounds far exceeds any benny of taking reloading equipment, & that whole thing is really a stupid thing for what this man is asking to do.

Really! The guy's gonna do a 2-week canoe-trip through MN waters - not like he's gonna deal with completely unknowns - here to fores.

A 2- week canoe trip - for God's sake.

Yup, I'd take "some protection."

I'd use a 12 gauge with a bit of slug/buck variety.

Nope. You're not going to "forage," as you'll take the food with you (unless a tweak-trip where you get to "eat as you come"-type of thing - & still, why dintcha talke what you wanted to eat in the first place?

I've taken backpacking trips longer & never had to "worry" about "foraging."

Just hafta ask ....

[cratz2]

I voted for 45/70 for serious work but that might be on the strong side for plinking. The 45/410 would be a decent choice since it has shotgun potential but the 410 is pretty limited. 357 would be a good choice as the hot 357s can be formidable and 38s are available for cheap or less serious use. And we can never discount the 44 Magnum. The 308 would be good for longer distance shooting.

So I guess my point is there are several good choices, but I'd go for the 45/70.

[goon]

"Now I'll take all that back (after looking at the list) and say the .410/.45 Colt would be the best all around choice. With one caveat that the .45 Colt is capable of handling stout loads, not just the anemic black powder equivalent loads."

The original .45LC load used a 255gr bullet over 40gr of black powder. They were a load to be reckoned with. The manufacturers later cut them back to around 35gr because they were too wicked. I read somewhere about a guy who loaded some 40gr loads with 250gr LRN and he got about 1100FPS out of them in a 7.5 inch Blackhawk.
Not something that I would call anemic.
The real problem came when they switched over to smokeless powder. The guns couldn't handle the pressure, so they had to be loaded down.

[amprecon]

Another vote for the mighty 12 gauge pump, the real gun that won the West.
Personally, if I were to go into the boonies for an indefinite period of time and had to choose a single firearm, it would be without hesitation my trusty Remington 870. I would take as many slugs and #4 lead shot as I could carry, this combination will feed you if their IS any game to be had.
Of course if I weren't relegated to only one weapon, I would take my trusty G21 for my sidearm. However a sidearm in any of it's vast variations would suffice enough for back-up for primary weapon damage/non-function/loss.

[Marshall]

I know that country well! I have over 2500 miles logged canoeing and portaging in MN, from south of the Bemidji area on up to Canada. The guide gun is the rifle to have, in your choice of large caliber, 45-70, .444 Marlin, 450 marlin, 44Mag etc.

Whatever you do, tie it to your canoe or it's a gonner! I don't know how much experience you have canoeing but, those large bodies of water up there can get nasty and if you don't have much experience you can count on capsizing at least once.

I know you said NEF but just had to tell what I thought, LOL. Still, stick with this kind of caliber. If you're taking a pistol, either take the same caliber for convenience or, take a completely different caliber to enhance your options. I think the above calibers with a Ruger or Browning .22lr camp pistol would be great! OH, and have a great time, it's some of the most beautiful country there is! I'm jealeous, I want to go back!

Browning Buck Marks (http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/category.asp?value=006B)
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/images/051353490m.jpg


Ruger 22/45 (http://www.ruger-firearms.com/pistolsrf.html)
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/images/ruger_guns/pistols/Rimfire_Pistols/p512b.gif

[s&w 24]

[quote]Whatever you do, tie it to your canoe or it's a gonner! I don't know how much experience you have canoeing but, those large bodies of water up there can get nasty and if you don't have much experience you can count on capsizing at least once.
[quote]

I have been up the gunflint trail most resently, also down the red river and some others. I also went to college in Ely MN what a great time if you don't count my grades but how can you study with all that hunting and woods loafing to do!

[Dr.Rob]

You'd be better off with a single shot HR in 12 ga. You can even get a floating gun case.

Seriously, for everything from rabbits to moose? There is no other choice.

I've done a LOT of canoeing, learned a lot of things the hard way. Buy your self some Sealine dry bags, and watch out for stuff bubbling up near your boat (in the boundary waters it could be a moose).

And again, it's ok to do a little fishing and hunting... but take enough food with you. I've seen too many he-men trying to prove what a nature boy they are come home scrawny and shivering, or not come home at all.

Be careful, and have fun!

[Steven Mace]

Of the choices available I would go with the .30-06. Outside of these choices I would be very tempted to look at a Marlin 336C chambered in .35 Remingtion. Yes, a real oddball.

Steve Mace

[ReadyontheRight]

I'll go with a modified version of Mr. Eatman's suggestion. A 30/30 Marlin or Winchester and a .22 pistol.

Relatively inexpensive, hard to hurt and easy to maintain. A "cowboy gun" is also somewhat non-imposing if spotted by bliss-ninny but friendly fellow campers. Easy to make it imposing if running into unfriendlies.

A .22 can get you small game, tons of ammo if you get lost and a little fun plinking out in the boonies.

[Art Eatman]

Somebody really experienced in wilderness living might manage to live off the land. However, a lot less time is used if you have water purification supplies and a bunch of freeze-dried food.

Living off the land takes so much time. Shoot something. Clean it. Then, clean you. Then, carry or store. Then, cook. Find natural veggies. Clean. Clean you. Carry/store...

Whatcha gonna do with a deer or bear? Enjoy the third-day aroma in your canoe? :D

Seems to me the idea is to enjoy "being out there", and being able to set up camp and not have to worry about how to deal with supper makes this enjoyment easier. Fishing along the way during a canoe trip is a whole 'nother deal...

BTDT.

:), Art

[SquirrelNuts]

I voted for .30-06, and regardless of what Art just said-he would choose the .30-06 as well. Takes care of anything that might arise from the rabid chipmunk to the deranged moose, just by picking the right bullet.

-SquirrelNuts

[s&w 24]

It's not a "live off the land " type thing after being a BSA camp instructor in widerness survival I know that it's not easy it's more of a suplement the FD food (yuk) and also somthing to have along "just in case". I know if I re worded my statement to some far out SHTF thing I,d get more input but I don't want a FN/AK/AR
shutzen blaster I want to go have some fun in the woods.

[Art Eatman]

Meddlin' along canoe trip in the boonies? Odds are that a .22 pistol or rifle--depending on one's skill level--and some fishing tackle would do a great job of enabling "fun in the woods" and supplementing brought-along food.

My experience with FD stuff is that it's bland, so toting some spices along is a good cure for that problem. The nice thing about a canoe is that you can tote canned stuff quite easily.

A bunch of us did a five-day canoe trip on the Lower Canyons of the Rio Grande, years ago. We had dry ice in the taped-shut coolers, and were still eating steaks on the last day. :) Ah, wilderness! Catfish filets and eggs do pretty good for one's innards, as well.

:), Art

[magyars4]

I have been going on extended white water canoe trips for the last 20 years. In that time ihave had 3 confrontations with armed agressors....I have also been fired upon 2X...I dont much worry about a gun for food, although as an emergency back up it might come in handy. I carry for personal protection...I have carried everything from 22 revolvers to 12 ga shotguns to 30-30 rifles and damn near everything in between.
!2 ga is hard to beat for all round use: birds to big game to self defense, go with the 12 ga!

[s&w 24]

Problem hopefully solved I found an H&R 12 bore for $40 and I will probably get an MCA sports bore sleave in 30/30 or 30/40 for $65. I also found a Hawes 22 SA for $20 in 22 mag it needs anew hand but the part is on the way and at the next gun show hopfully I can find a 22 lr cylinder.

[Glamdring]

I would go with 45-70 plus Hammond Game Getters (a device that lets you use 22 blanks for nail guns to shoot lead round ball from the rifle, it looks like an empty shell. Snail mail Box 41061, Petrolia PO, Edmonton Alberta T6J6M7, Canada.) Or 308/30-06 with Alex cap (lets you shoot 22 rf hollowpoints in your rifle)http://www.alexcartridge.com/cap_adapters.htm

Figure 20 rounds of regular rifle ammo for big game is plenty plus hundred or so caps or 22 blanks and roundballs for rodents or plinking or whatever.