[Connecticut Yankee]

Please donate to “Adopt a Sniper” at http://www.adoptasniper.org/. They are gathering and sending sniper needed items as well as general items for snipers on the front lines. You can read all the details and have your questions answered by going to their link. What you need to do is DONATE. THEY NEED WHATEVER YOU CAN GIVE! Both Adopt a Sniper and Snipersonline are 501 c 3 non-profit organizations and all donations are TAX DEDUCTIBLE!

I spoke to Brian Sain and Keith Deneys. If you have any questions just call either one of them. Based on this conversation what they most need are the following:

Money for POSTAGE: Snipersonline, the parent organization, has material that is piling up because people send items but don’t make cash donations.

Big ticket items that are really needed are

Leupold Golden Ring Mark 4 12-40x60 mm Tactical Spotting Scopes Part No. 53756 which has the Mildot this is what they need.

Leica 1200 Laser (BEST) also Bushnell, Nikon Rangefinders that work out to at least 1000 yards

Leupold Tactical Mil-Spec Scopes e.g. Mark 4 MRT 3-9x M1 with Mildot Reticle Part No. 57070

N.B. My friend who is a dealer is selling these to me at his cost, no profit, since they are being donated. Ask your regular dealer if he will do the same.

Other items that are in demand are:

Blackhawk STRIKE Commando Recon Chest harnesses: they allow the sniper to wear the strike plates out of his issue body armor but remain unhindered for shooting his rifle.

Kestrel wind meters

Safariland 6004 drop leg holsters.

Their full list is at: http://www.adoptasniper.org/items.html.

SUGGESTIONS:

1) Take the Mil Spec Leupold or any Mil Spec scope off of ONE of your rifles and donate it to them. Make do with a Tasco for the duration.

2) Contact your local Police Department and see if they have any old items that they would be willing to donate. They can talk to Brian, he is a sworn LEO in Texas, so it would be an officer to officer or department to department donation.

3) Clean out you basement of the GOOD STUFF. Do you have any extra Randalls lying around? An extra Kershaw multi-tool? Decent quality spotting scope or binoculars that you haven’t used in ages? An extra lens pen or two? Pin-on compass? An old Harris bipod? Please don’t send them the garage sale items, they just have to throw it away after you spend money on postage. But we all have more than we need since the guys in the field don’t have everything they need!

4) Print out the flyer from their website and post it at your dealers and your range.

[Connecticut Yankee]

Please donate to “Adopt a Sniper” at http://www.adoptasniper.org/. They are gathering and sending sniper needed items as well as general items for snipers on the front lines. You can read all the details and have your questions answered by going to their link. What you need to do is DONATE. THEY NEED WHATEVER YOU CAN GIVE! Both Adopt a Sniper and Snipersonline are 501 c 3 non-profit organizations and all donations are TAX DEDUCTIBLE!

I spoke to Brian Sain and Keith Deneys. If you have any questions just call either one of them. Based on this conversation what they most need are the following:

Money for POSTAGE: Snipersonline, the parent organization, has material that is piling up because people send items but don’t make cash donations.

Big ticket items that are really needed are

Leupold Golden Ring Mark 4 12-40x60 mm Tactical Spotting Scopes Part No. 53756 which has the Mildot this is what they need.

Leica 1200 Laser (BEST) also Bushnell, Nikon Rangefinders that work out to at least 1000 yards

Leupold Tactical Mil-Spec Scopes e.g. Mark 4 MRT 3-9x M1 with Mildot Reticle Part No. 57070

N.B. My friend who is a dealer is selling these to me at his cost, no profit, since they are being donated. Ask your regular dealer if he will do the same.

Other items that are in demand are:

Blackhawk STRIKE Commando Recon Chest harnesses: they allow the sniper to wear the strike plates out of his issue body armor but remain unhindered for shooting his rifle.

Kestrel wind meters

Safariland 6004 drop leg holsters.

Their full list is at: http://www.adoptasniper.org/items.html.

SUGGESTIONS:

1) Take the Mil Spec Leupold or any Mil Spec scope off of ONE of your rifles and donate it to them. Make do with a Tasco for the duration.

2) Contact your local Police Department and see if they have any old items that they would be willing to donate. They can talk to Brian, he is a sworn LEO in Texas, so it would be an officer to officer or department to department donation.

3) Clean out you basement of the GOOD STUFF. Do you have any extra Randalls lying around? An extra Kershaw multi-tool? Decent quality spotting scope or binoculars that you haven’t used in ages? An extra lens pen or two? Pin-on compass? An old Harris bipod? Please don’t send them the garage sale items, they just have to throw it away after you spend money on postage. But we all have more than we need since the guys in the field don’t have everything they need!

4) Print out the flyer from their website and post it at your dealers and your range.

[ID_shooting]

:uhoh: :confused: :rolleyes: :scrutiny:

[DragonFire]

I'm sorry but I'm skeptical about this. I surf'd the adoptasniper web site and find it hard to accept.

I just can't believe that our troops would be better off with with donated equipment than they would be with what the services assign to them. I also don't believe that the military will allow the troops to carry anything they want.

And while I know we have snipers "working" in Iraq and Afganistan, I really hope we don't have them working all over the world.

I'm not saying that this is a scam, but at best it's some misguided good intentions.

[SapperLeader]

:confused: Umm, Im confused, Im familiar with regular line troops wanting to supplement thier gear with better stuff, but the military snipers and designated marksman Ive met all had thier gear issued to them and were happy with it except for ammo in some cases. Is this legit? :scrutiny: a

[why_me]

Called Port Arthur police department. The web site and program was started by Det. Brian Sain. He is on vacation. Dispatcher told me it was a legitamate charity.

[Connecticut Yankee]

Okay, don't believe me, again, check the website. They got written up in the NY Times, Stars and Stripes, Reuters and were featured on Fox News. I don't trust the media any more than you do but I find it hard to believe that all four organizations could be fooled by a conspiracy to scam us out of our money. They have 501 3 c standing, you can ask for their IRS papers.

http://www.adoptasniper.org/pdfs/NY-Times-Article-Dec2104.pdf is from their website it has a picture of Brian from the NY Times, this article is where I found out abot this group. You can call Brian in Port Arthur, Texas, his pager is on the website.

[Connecticut Yankee]

My understanding from Brian and the website is that these guys were good shots who are pressed into duty as snipers without the official MOS of "Sniper" so they can't get the equipment through channels since they aren't on the TOE. Please see the recent comments and my reply in General Gun Discussion. Brian is currently on vacation per another poster there but he noted that Dispatcher confirmed orginization.

[Connecticut Yankee]

My understanding from Brian and the website is that these guys were good shots who are pressed into duty as snipers without the official MOS of "Sniper" so they can't get the equipment through channels since they aren't on the TOE. Please see the recent comments and my reply in General Gun Discussion. Brian is currently on vacation per another poster there but he noted that Dispatcher confirmed orginization.

[CannibalCrowley]

How many of these threads are you going to spam the board with?

[Waitone]

I gotta ask, "Why the need?"

What ain't happenin' that should be happin'? How come basic tools of the trade aren't available in sufficient quantities to justify a canned goods pounding.

Something just don't add up.

[Connecticut Yankee]

I was never in the service so I don't know how it works. From the FAQs on the website and my discussion with Brian these are guys who are doing sniper work without being MOS sniper or being on the TOE so they can't get equipment through normal channels. I suggest you call Brian when he is back from vacation or call one of the other three guys listed on the website and ask them.

[hipeflip]

Add me in as one of the skeptical. This is from the website:

Q: How do I know that the snipers have received the items I sent?

A: The entire organization is based on a certain amount of trust. The snipers trust that we will not give up their identities. The people donating trust that we will actually spend their money on what we claim and that we will actually send the gear donations to the troops and not steal it or re-sale it. The snipers will usually send a quick email of thanks to Brian when they get access to a computer. We will try and post these to the site. However, their units, names, etc. will always be deleted. We will pass on a donation rather than give out the sniper's address.

[Khornet]

a while back and they seemed good, so I sent 'em four of those Blackhawk flak vests.

[ID_shooting]

Let me know if this sca.. er, I mean request works. I think I may need to suppliment my sniping collection.

[Gewehr98]

As somebody who's been a GI for nigh unto 20 years, I'd really like to see the Table of Allowances/Table of Equipment for these "impromptu snipers". Circumventing both the chain of command and the logistics train by sending non-GSA-approved stuff direct to the end-user is bad juju. :(

I'll be setting up a website of my own later, and use a Wisconsin address. I could use a Leupold scope or two.

[Preacherman]

Duplicate threads merged.

[artherd]

Leupold Tactical Mil-Spec Scopes e.g. Mark 4 MRT 3-9x M1 with Mildot Reticle Part No. 57070.

I am calling this out as a scam. No f-ing WAY do they need bloody consumer-market SPR scopes, used ones at that.

What, you expect me to belive we are fielding sniper teams with rack grade A2s with iron sights? If they're GETTING SPRs, then they will be issued the scope too.


Maybe this dispatcher lady has been fooled too, maybe even your LEO buddies. Somebody somewhere is pocketing this stuff, or worse.

[Connecticut Yankee]

1. I was never in the service and I have no knowledge of the intracacies of assignments and equipment. If this endeavor seems to be illegitimate to you then either don't donate or contact the people running the program and ask them your questions.

2. I have nothing to do with this group other than that I am donating to them. I was simply trying to spread the word so that others who concurred could help if they wanted to. If you want to help but don't want to donate to this group then do a google search, you'll find the USO, Soldier's Angels, and a half dozen other groups all of whom are asking for donations for our troops.

3. Thank you for combining duplicate posts didn't realize not allowed won't do again.

[Jamie B]

Yup...smells of spam here.

[ScorpioVI]

Looks legit to me. I donated money and bought a challenge coin.

[rock jock]

I have never met Brian Sain personally, but he is well known among shooting circles locally. I do know that he has been in LE for some time and is currently on the PA SWAT team. A colleague whom I have shot with for years and trust implicitly knows Brian pretty well and has vouched for him. I don't think Brian would jeaprodize his reputation and career to run a scam. Furthermore, I have seen similar stories as those Brian relates on his website about some troops not being completlely outfitted for specific tasks (in this case, sniper duty) in news print and on other shooting sites. I believe the organization is completely legit and even donated a Leica 1200 sent from Bear Basin this month.

[Valkman]

I think it's legit, and have given money a couple of times. Before you write it off do some checking! I hope none of the ones calling BS are turning around and giving money to the Red Cross or United Way. :uhoh:

[jaxfl]

I spent 20 years in the military and had numerious jobs that I was not MOS trained or qualified in, but never, never, never need to furnish my own equipment to do the job. I spent several tours in Nam (1968-1971) and never bought a thing as a door gunner, recon, or weapons maintenance spec. If the units they are in are not TOE qualified to be doing that sniper job, then why are they doing it??? If they get killed or shot up there could be action taken againest them (UCMJ). If they are required to do sniper work then the commander for that unit and the supply system can get them the weapons, scopes, bullets, rags, uniforms, food and whatever they need. Also the use of non-military issued combat gear can result in again UCMJ action of the personnel. You cannot make me believe this is not a scam. :what:

[rock jock]

I spent 20 years in the military and had numerious jobs that I was not MOS trained or qualified in, but never, never, never need to furnish my own equipment to do the job. I spent several tours in Nam (1968-1971) and never bought a thing as a door gunner, recon, or weapons maintenance spec. If the units they are in are not TOE qualified to be doing that sniper job, then why are they doing it??? If they get killed or shot up there could be action taken againest them (UCMJ). If they are required to do sniper work then the commander for that unit and the supply system can get them the weapons, scopes, bullets, rags, uniforms, food and whatever they need. Also the use of non-military issued combat gear can result in again UCMJ action of the personnel. You cannot make me believe this is not a scam.
jax,

First, you either have not taken the time to read through the site or did not pay attention to the information provided. Nowhere does it say that the equipment Adopt-A-Sniper is sending to our troops is absolutely necessary for their task. Are laser rangerfinders critical for sniping? No. But they do make the job easier and the operator more effective. Is an EoTech or Aimpoint critical for CQB operations. Obviously not, since many of our troops don't have them. But having them lets the shooter acquire targets faster and with greater accuracy. The equipment any Marine or soldier needs to be a sniper is already available to them, i.e., a rifle and a brain. With those, he can be a good sniper. The extras that Adopt-A-Sniper is sending can make them a better sniper.

Second, you need to go no further than THR to find stories from dads, uncles, and friends who are using their own money to buy their sons, nephews, or buddies an Aimpoint, or a factory Beretta M9 magazine, or one of many other items that will not be issued to make them a more effective weapon. There was a story on THR only a few weeks ago about a dad who bought his son an ACOG which later deflected a round meant for his son's head.

Third, I'll try to be as civil as I can about this, but basically, unless you have information that lends credence to your accusations, SHUT THE **** UP!

[Gewehr98]

Those tired old TF-33's turbofans are sucking JP-8 like there's no tomorrow, and maintenance on the 1960's vintage engines is sucking up manpower while lowering sortie generation (and mission success) rates.

I think I'll set up a website, ala' Adopt-a-Sniper and Kim duToit, and petition the general public to donate either funds or complete CFM-56 engine refit kits. Our mission suffers as a result if we don't do something to get better equipment on our jets. Now, because stewardship of taxpayer funds isn't an issue, nor is mil-spec certification of the items donated, we can just get rid of the archaic TOE. Unit armorers can just look the other way, there's no reason for them to get involved if a Cabela's Leupold ends up on their M24 or M40 rifles.

If equipment issue is indeed pandemic, then petitioning materiel on a website sounds like a Band-Aid approach to a sucking chest wound. As part of the chain of command in my own squadron, I know full well that measures are in place to identify deficiencies and shortfalls, and I have no problem letting my my superiors know it. They expect feedback on how the mission's going, at least in my neck of the woods. We also understand that the military budget won't put the latest Garmin GPS in my bail-out vest. How much of a chance did our impromptu snipers at Adopt-A-Sniper give their chain of command and logistics system? Did the IG get involved? Or, from the armchair commando perspective, do I need to STFU, too? :scrutiny:

[rock jock]

Or, from the armchair commando perspective, do I need to STFU, too?
Yes you do, unless you have some facts to back up what you're implying, i.e., have facts that relate directly to this situation.

[brianksain]

Hello Gentlemen,

Brian K. Sain here from adoptasniper.org. I understand the skeptiscm fellas. CENTCOM felt the same way and sic'd a JAG investigator on us. MC Sgt. Major from McDill called to say we were okay with them ...

If questions remain ... please contact the Chief of Police at the Port Arthur, Texas Police Department and ask what type of cop I am. I will allow you to look the number up so you will be able to verify it's authenticity as well.

We are currently supporting 95 sniper platoons of the US military deployed OCONUS.

Some info that may explain what we are dealing with.

See also the "What we are dealing with" thread on the site / forum.
http://adoptasniper.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=32&highlight=dealing

From the www.adoptasniper.org site ...

Regarding the government's support or perceived lack
thereof:

I cannot speak for the entire military. However, in
the sniper's cases it kind of goes like this.

The snipers are specially trained and should be
specially equipped and indeed, some units are exactly
that. The school trained snipers that have actually
graduated sniper school and that have been snipers a
good while often buy their own gear OUT OF CHOICE or
are VERY WELL equipped by their units. This is
especially true with the special ops guys.

However, what we have found is that the US military is
using snipers in numbers not seen since the Vietnam
conflict. Iraq and Afghanistan are ideal locations for
sniper deployement. However, this fact has been
forgotten after every war since the American
Revolution. When war breaks out, we then find that we
are behind the curve and are then scrambling to train
up enough qualified marksmen because all of a sudden
we now need people that know how to shoot. Plus, the
emphasis on marksmanship training has been steadily
decreasing in the US military, whereas it used to be a
priority. This, I believe is due to too much reliance
on smart bombs and technology.

That said, a sniper is pretty much the smart bomb of
the infantry, firing one shot and obtaining one kill
with no collateral damage to innocents. We simply
cannot rely on the air force to do everything at all
times.

Furthermore, the sniper schools have a high attrition
rate because only the best of the best can make it
through. Only the coolest thinking, smartest,
strongest, fastest, non quitters in the military can
stand up to the stress and discipline required to
become a sniper. Likewise, only the best policemen
make decent snipers in law enforcement. To lower the
standards would cost lives and the sniper schools run
a very high operational tempo program. This is because
the snipers may have to shoot right beside or over
their friends heads to stop a threat and the soldiers
and marines must have explicit trust in the sniper's
abilities to do this. In additon the snipers are often
operating in two to four man teams and must be as
totally self sufficient as possible, often times
behind enemy lines.

Our soldiers and marines are currently not in a static
battle, in the middle of nowhere, with a clearly
defined enemy and desolate surroundings for a
backstop. They are fighting an enemy dressed as the
rest of the populace, that uses women and children as
shields, who are often on the move, within the
civilian population of huge urban environments. Their
shooting has to be surgical in nature and there can be
no collateral injury of innocents as a result. This is
the same type of environment that the police sniper in
the US and UK lives in everyday. They simply cannot
miss because to do so means that the wrong person dies
or their friends are killed.

That said ... most of snipers are issued body armor
and helmets. But it is just too cumbersome to wear and
shoot with to the degree of precision demanded of the
sniper. However, the sniper's Commanding officers have
often times never been to sniper school themselves and
do not understand what it takes to do the job of the
sniper. A sniper is just one of many troops the CO
must look after and he may view the snipers as not any
different than any of his other troops when they
really do have specific equipment needs. The COs often
misuse the snipers because they either do not know or
care about the capabilities their snipers can provide
them.

In the sniper's cases, it is not that the snipers need
body armor per sey. But rather that the snipers need
different CARRIERS (specific clothing that holds the
ballistic panels) than the regular troops. This is so
they can shoot on the move and in cramped shooting
positions. The issue helmet hurts one's neck in the
prone position and is also cumbersome. If the snipers
use the standard armor, they either have to take it
off or try and shoot with it on.

If they take it off, their vital organs are exposed to
enemy fire and then they must quickly don the armor or
try and carry it with them if they have to quickly
change locations. If they try and shoot with it on, it
adversely affects their shot placement and we have
already established the ramifications of that.

Furthermore, the armored divisons and Stryker brigades
are also seeing the value of having snipers with the
convoys as they can engage the enemy with one shot and
end the threat. However, here again, the COs know
TANKS and vehicles and NOT snipers ... and often the
budget is spent on the vehicles and not on the needs
of six or eight snipers. These are the voids that
adoptasniper tries to fill.

Every soldier or marine that shot "Expert" on the
range is now being assigned as the "Company sniper"
although he probably has not had a chance to go to
sniper school. He has a rifle but often times no scope
or training to go with it. When he trys to get these
things from his supply officer, his unit probably has
not ever been issued this type of special gear and
getting approved is a mountain of beurocratic red
tape. If the soldier or marine's request gets shut
down by his CO or supply then he cannot usurp the
chain of command or suffer disciplinary action for
doing so.

Adoptasniper works because we are not in anyone's
chain of command. We know exactly what the snipers
need when they ask for it. We know where to get it
cheapest and we have the same address for these guys
that their momma has. All of this because we are
snipers ourselves. The items go from AAS shipping
sites to the snipers tents in 2.5 weeks. Done deal. No
red tape, no disciplinary action, no charge. Just that
simple ...

Furthermore, when units deploy overseas; they are
allotted funds that they do not receive here in the
States. Many supply personnel either do not know this
or the funds are spread elsewhere.

In my own very limited experience, it seems that the
problems lie more with the individual unit commanders
and supply officers either not understanding or caring
what their snipers need; moreso than the fact that the
government is not providing the funds to adequately
supply the armed forces.

The cutbacks in military spending from the previous
administration seem to have affected our military far
more than anything the current administration may have
done or has failed to do.

I hope this clears some of the common misconceptions
up. I believe our program is working and I think we
are making a difference.

Regards,

Brian K. Sain
www.adoptasniper.org

Stars and Stripes:
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=21396&archive=true

Reuters:
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6812320

[Khornet]

those vests are what I was talking about in my post above. Hope some Marines are wearing 'em now.

[Lone_Gunman]

I paid my taxes, and thats going to be about it for me.

If the President can't or won't equip the soldiers the way they should be equipped, then he shouldn't be fighting this war.

[Khornet]

I understand the sentiment. Lord knows I pay enough taxes, running a small business. BUT it's unrealistic to a) expect the President to control minutiae like the items AAS asks for, and b) to ever expect any government to field soldiers who have exactly what they need in adequate quantities. Human nature precludes this.

I can see the arguments of those who supect/disagree with the AAS concept, but I'm not a fool for donating.

[rock jock]

If the President can't or won't equip the soldiers the way they should be equipped
You obviously did not read a word in Brian Sain's post. This is essentially a matter of logistics. If your solution is to wait until that issue is resolved in our military before going to war, then we may as well lay down our arms now and wave the white flag. I have yet to read about any war where the troops got everything they needed when they needed it. If you don't want to contribute, fine, but don't imply that those who do are somehow wasting their money. Frankly, given the fact that there are quite a few THR members who can't seem to find it within their budget to support organizations fighting for our RKBA, it doesn't surprise me that they would not support AAS or any other group that helps our troops. Its much easier to throw around baseless accusations and feel smug contempt for those who contribute. I'm sure it helps you sleep better at night, for what that's worth. However, I think there are a few that will recognize the benefit of doing this. If the Leica I sent can help one sniper hit just one or two more targets, then it is worth it. That means there is one or two more dead insurgents that won't be fighting or strapping bombs to their chest and blowing up innocent civilians.

[jaxfl]

Rock Jock

As you told Lone…“You obviously did not read a word in Brian Sain's post. This is essentially a matter of logistics.” As a retired Logistics Analyst for the US Army I understand logistics and working currently for US Navy supply corp, I also understand supply and logistics in both military chains. I read every word and it is a nice sales pitch…

Some of what Mr. Sain said;
“The snipers are specially trained and should be
specially equipped and indeed, some units are exactly
that. The school trained snipers that have actually
graduated sniper school and that have been snipers a
good while often buy their own gear OUT OF CHOICE or
are VERY WELL equipped by their units. This is
especially true with the special ops guys.” Agree they are trained and equipped...

“That said, a sniper is pretty much the smart bomb of
the infantry, firing one shot and obtaining one kill
with no collateral damage to innocents.” And without being detected...

“They are fighting an enemy dressed as the
rest of the populace, that uses women and children as
shields, who are often on the move, within the
civilian population of huge urban environments” Been there done that 30 years ago in Nam...

“Adoptasniper works because we are not in anyone's
chain of command." “We know exactly what the snipers
need when they ask for it.” How?? “Every soldier or marine that shot "Expert" on the range is now being assigned as the "Company sniper"” How does EVERY SOLDIER know what they need if they are not trained to know???
“We know where to get it cheapest and we have the same address for these guys that their momma has.” But with the sniper behind enemy lines he will not get it and the post office doesn’t deliver behind lines. Also all items shipped are xrayed and the good stuff can be stolen, lost or sold. "All of this because we are snipers ourselves.” What do you mean we are snipers?? When was the last time you sniped a human??? Or do you mean you have been deer sniping?
“Done deal. No red tape, no disciplinary action, no charge. Just that simple ...” No UCMJ action, No accountability for equipment, No responsibility for who really gets the items, No forward maintenance when the stuff stops working???

“In my own very limited experience,” (the most truthful statement made) it seems that the problems lie more with the individual unit commanders and supply officers either not understanding or caring what their snipers need; moreso than the fact that the government is not providing the funds to adequately supply the armed forces. That is BULL every commander cares about the people under them and each understands the problems as they are normally alongside the troop. If a commander doesn’t care and the troops relies that the commander may vanish some night. Happened in Nam all the time, remember??

Also...
“Brian K. Sain here from adoptasniper.org. I understand the skeptiscm fellas. CENTCOM felt the same way and sic'd a JAG investigator on us. MC Sgt. Major from McDill called to say we were okay with them ...” A JAG investigator, really? I would think that CID or NCIS would be more likely to do the investigation, and Who is this mysterious MC Sgt Major?

Chief Master Sergeant Brownhill assumed duties as the Command Chief Master Sergeant, United States Central Command MacDill Air Force base, Florida, on February 27, 2004. It is also (USCENTCOM) not (CENTCOM). United States Central Command (USCENTCOM) is one of nine Unified Combatant Commands assigned operational control of U.S. combat forces. USCENTCOM’s Commander, Gen. John Abizaid, reports directly to the Secretary of Defense, who in turn, reports to the President of the United States. So if things were needed by our troops, this is a very short chain of command. A Unified Combatant Command is organized as a headquarters element; USCENTCOM has no war fighting units permanently assigned to it. Now if Gen. John Abizaid or Chief Master Sergeant Brownhill respond to this forum and attest that the items mentioned are being delievered to the ones that need it, I would be more than happy to donate to the AAS program. Below is the numbers that can be contacted.

CommanderU.S. Central Command7115 South Boundary BoulevardMacDill, AFB, FL 33621-5101 Phone: (813) 827-5894Fax: (813) 827-2211DSN: 651-5894E-Mail: pao@centcom.mil

Now with all due respect you STFU until you have all the facts and the commander or CMS says that this is a go.

[rock jock]

I would be more than happy to donate to the AAS program
Allright, how much are we talking? If you're proven wrong, what are you willing to donate?

[CannibalCrowley]

Every soldier or marine that shot "Expert" on the
range is now being assigned as the "Company sniper"Wow, that means my old company would be made up of almost 50% snipers. Weapons platoon must be in real trouble.

[jaxfl]

ROCK JOCK...

"Allright, how much are we talking? If you're proven wrong, what are you willing to donate?"

Prove me wrong! It will be worth while. :cool:

[Lone_Gunman]

You obviously did not read a word in Brian Sain's post. This is essentially a matter of logistics.

So what if it is a logistical problem?

The best funded military in the world needs to figure out how to fix its logistical problems.

I mean, snipers routinely use scopes and range finders. How the heck did we end up with snipers in the field without them?

[Hawkmoon]

We are currently supporting 95 sniper platoons of the US military deployed OCONUS.
I was on the fence, until I read this.

Sniper PLATOONS?

Give me a break. I call scam. Sorry, but I've been in the service, and there ain't no such thing as a sniper platoon -- let alone 95 of 'em.

[CannibalCrowley]

Sorry, but I've been in the service, and there ain't no such thing as a sniper platoon -- let alone 95 of 'em.You're wrong. We had one in my Battalion, it was located inside Weapons Company. It was called STA Platoon (Sniper, Target Acquisition IIRC). I'm pretty sure every infantry Battalion in the Marine Corps has one.

[rock jock]

Prove me wrong! It will be worth while.
Tell ya what. Since you have made these unfounded accusations and basically imposed a "guilty until proven innocent" policy on AAS, I'll offer you the following challenge, not for AAS sake or Brian Sain's, but for my own integrity. If I find out this is a scam, I will freely admit on THR loud and clear that I've been suckered. I'll even pay you $100. If I find out otherwise, you donate the same amount to AAS I already have.

[Lone_Gunman]

If I find out this is a scam, I will freely admit on THR loud and clear that I've been suckered.

When we get proof it is a scam, you won't have to admit anything... we'll know you were suckered.

[ID_shooting]

"Sorry, but I've been in the service, and there ain't no such thing as a sniper platoon -- let alone 95 of 'em."

We had them too. They weren't a whole platoon but part of our scout platoon. They still ALL had M24s that were FULLY equiped.

"Every soldier or marine that shot "Expert" on the
range is now being assigned as the "Company sniper""

Wow, I qualified expert on three weapon systems, does that mean I can call myself a sniper now?

I still don't bite this bait. If serious though, get a two or three star to do a press confrence on the major news networks to ask for assistance from the general public. You would probably end up with more equipment than you know what to do with.

Side thought on this though...

When these fine men and women come back from the desert, what happens to thier equipment you sent them? They will pass through several shake-down inspections, and will have anything that is not on the TOE confiscated. Small personal items exempted of course, but things like weapons and such are not allowed to be brought back.

So now when we leave, we are going to be equiping some foriegn sniper battalion?

[Lone_Gunman]

If serious though, get a two or three star to do a press confrence on the major news networks to ask for assistance from the general public.

Yes, I agree it would be a different story if I saw a general on CNN asking for help. That would incline a lot of people to help.

However, Bush won't allow this, as it would make him look bad politically to again be caught with his panties down regarding his war preparation.

[ScorpioVI]

Give me a break. I call scam. Sorry, but I've been in the service, and there ain't no such thing as a sniper platoon -- let alone 95 of 'em.



I dunno what freaking Army YOU served in, but when I was in 10th Mountain, the 6 Light Infantry Battalions all had sniper platoons, also known as "Scout Platoon". They all had M24s, walked around in ghillie suits, etc.

[Wags]

I don't like the sound of this, period. I'm thinking a bunch of Reservists (which I'm also proud of) are getting deployed, may have shot expert during there yearly rifle/pistol quals, and now everyone wants to be a "Designated Marksman".

So, once all this gear is donated to the U.S. Military, it should stay with the U.S. Military. Right? I see a bunch of "want to be" DM's gathering this free gear and bringing it home with them and sold on ebay afterwards. It's not going to be on the Military's TOA (table of allowance), so no paper trail. It's a win win situation!

If you guys are being sent off to fight a war and not having the gear provided to you to do the job, I'd be going up my chain of command, or writting my Congress person. Heck, call Donald Rumsfeld the Secretary of Defense, he's now an expert answering questions on not issuing the correct gear/equipment to the troops. This is the boat your in, correct?

This does not fly guys in my book........

Wags

[jaxfl]

Out of your own mouth...."I'll even pay you $100. If I find out otherwise, you donate the same amount to AAS I already have." You got it. If this is for real the snipers all 95 really need our assistance And you prove this is 110% real and you can prove it. That I will pay $100.

[HEiST]

If they're not being given the right gear in the first place, why should I have to do it? All this does is tell me that a) it is likely that this is a scam and b) if it is not a scam, I'm never joining the military. Not the US military, at least.

[artherd]

A friggin RIFLE SCOPE is a 'non-essential accessory'?!? You've got to be kidding me.

Wouldn't be the first time some chief of police wanted to start a collection all his own.

[rock jock]

Out of your own mouth...."I'll even pay you $100. If I find out otherwise, you donate the same amount to AAS I already have." You got it. If this is for real the snipers all 95 really need our assistance And you prove this is 110% real and you can prove it. That I will pay $100.
The conditions are: 1) I can show that snipers are receiving this equipment, and 2) that they in fact are in need of this stuff. AND, the bet is not for $100. Read my post. The bet is for the same amount that I have already donated. I sent a NIB Leica 1200 directly from Bear Basin to this outfit. I paid $500 for it. THAT'S the bet.

[RevDisk]

Sounds like a nice program. I'd be surprised if every single soldier getting goodies is a sniper, officially or unofficially. If it gets put to good use regardless, I'd be happy.

Last time I was OCONUS, I got lots of goodies around Christmas time. It was rather nice, and it certainly did cheer me up. Of course, not all of the gifts were something I'd use. Uhm, I don't have much use for "feminine products" and other items, but I passed them on to those that could use them.


As for the US Army supply system, try getting AA batteries that work. Half the time, supply is out. The rest of the time, the batteries had been sitting on a shelf for a decade and won't last more than a couple hours of usage. Want to donate something useful? Batteries. AA mostly, but a couple AAA's would be nice.

[jaxfl]

"The conditions are: 1) I can show that snipers are receiving this equipment, and 2) that they in fact are in need of this stuff. AND, the bet is not for $100. Read my post. The bet is for the same amount that I have already donated. I sent a NIB Leica 1200 directly from Bear Basin to this outfit. I paid $500 for it. THAT'S the bet."

No the bet is $100 usd, not what you have been ripped off. The magic part of your statement and the one that you will have a hard time with is #2) "that they in fact "ARE IN NEED" of this stuff"

I will be waiting ;)

[rock jock]

No the bet is $100 usd, not what you have been ripped off.
"you donate the same amount to AAS I already have"
That is pretty simple to understand. The bet is for $500. However, I can already see that you are backing off from putting your money where you mouth is. Not surprising. You make baseless derogatory statements about an organization and then are not ready to back up your words. Why are you so afraid to put $500 on the line? If you are so confident in your previous flippant comments about AAS, you should not feel the least bit nervous about betting $500, or even $5,000 for that matter. In fact, if you're right, you stand to make $100. Seems like easy money for you. However, the fact that you are now trying to change the conditions of the bet tells me that you recognize that your original comments were unwaranted and immature, but are now not man enough to admit it.

[JohnBT]

"If they're not being given the right gear in the first place, why should I have to do it?"

You don't have to, but some of us want to. Sure the military should fix their supply system, but meanwhile, while it's getting fixed, there's a war on.

As to what becomes of the donated items, I say let the folks who used them bring them home if they're not needed later on. They are gifts after all.

I wonder if there were folks stateside during WWII who wouldn't donate to the scrap metal drives because it was the government's responsibility? Probably, sad to say.

John

[jaxfl]

To get an offical answer I have sent an email directly to Chief Master Sergeant Brownhill, the Master Chief of McDill, AF Base. I have asked him to look into this matter and to vist the site and this thread and to also talk with JAG and any other points that can verify the information. I also asked about legallityof shipping weapon related items to the troops. I will await his email response unless he answers directly to this forum as himself, with his phone and official address. Enough effort expended on this topic at this time.

[homeka45]

Well this will be interesting to see.

[ScorpioVI]

Got my challenge coin in the mail the other day. I'm impressed. It's larger and thicker than the Army challenge coins I'm used to though.

[MaterDei]

I donate to this fund every payday. It's called taxes! If the military is not getting enough then they can take some money from the NEA or the Dept. of Education or from any other nonconstitutional use and give more to the military.

If this is not a scam it is pathetic.