1911 bedstand gun... cocked & locked???


PDA






PAC 762
December 28, 2004, 09:23 PM
For those that keep a 1911 in their bedstand, do you keep it in condition 1 or 3? I've been keeping a kimber in condition 3 for some time, but a recent 3:00 am wake-up (false alarm) left me fumbling to rack the slide.

I am very comfortable carrying in condition 1, but the thought of leaving one for weeks on end cocked & locked leaves me a little unsettled for both parts wear and, to a lesser extent, safety. What are your opinions?

BTW, there are no children in my house to worry about.

If you enjoyed reading about "1911 bedstand gun... cocked & locked???" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
John Forsyth
December 28, 2004, 09:45 PM
C&L here.

bratch
December 28, 2004, 09:46 PM
Have my Kimber and 870 both in Condition 3. The 870 has the slide started so I don't have to fumble with the button.

wally
December 28, 2004, 10:04 PM
C&L.

The pump shotgun is dry fired on a snap cap, tube filled, safety off, with stock folded (I've a rather narrow hallway to deal with).

--wally.

Zonamo
December 28, 2004, 11:19 PM
I am very comfortable carrying in condition 1, but the thought of leaving one for weeks on end cocked & locked leaves me a little unsettled for both parts wear
Springs do not wear by being maintained in a compressed state as the force on the spring is designed to always be well below the yield limit of the spring material. Springs fail when their stresses reach the material's fatigue limit as a consequence of the repetition of oscillatory loads. Loading and unloading your pistol each night will actually wear the springs in your firearm faster than simply leaving it cocked and locked.

and, to a lesser extent, safety.
A firearm in good working order without any material defects loaded with two separate safeties engaged is no more or less safe than a firearm with the safeties disengaged and the chamber empty-until you place your finger on the trigger. It is a lot handier to put into immediate use, however.

Guido_the_Legbreaker
December 28, 2004, 11:37 PM
Cocked, Locked and ready to rock....it's easier to knock the safety off and stand ready for trouble....try both ways from a laying down position to a roll out and stand up postion with an empty weapon....

HSMITH
December 29, 2004, 12:09 AM
I have mine with chamber dry. I want them to KNOW what is coming if they pursue the issue and it takes a fraction of a second to charge the weapon. Hopefully they head the other way at high speed when they hear me charge the 1911 and then the 870. Then there would also be the sound of my wife charging a Glock or a 1911, depends on which one she picks up. From there we can defend until we can get to serious weapons. I would much rather the bad guy retreats and I don't give up but a small part of a second over just picking it up and wiping off the safety, I think the noise of weapons being charged would turn most bad guys around. If for some reason I wanted to be quiet about things there are always revolvers around too.

Whatever you are comfortable with is the right way to do it.

OEF_VET
December 29, 2004, 01:20 AM
I have two 1911's (Para/Ord C745LDA and P/O Stealth HiCap 1445LDA) in my bedside table, both of which are ready to rumble by simply lowering the safety. They alternate as my carry weapon, depending on what I'm wearing that day, so they both reside next to where I get dressed. I don't worry about any undue stress being put on the springs or about it being unsafe. It is highly unlikely that all the safeties built into those pistols are going to fail at one time. I shoot both pistols quite often, so they don't just sit there either.

I also keep an 870 Police Magnum close by, "cruiser ready", which is to say the chamber is empty, trigger is pulled, safety off, with the tube loaded one less than full capacity.

jem375
December 29, 2004, 01:53 AM
mine is in condition 2...............

crucible
December 29, 2004, 03:06 AM
C&L, but with the hammer down-I'm using a C&S SFS on my Dan Wesson.

Cruc

PaleRyder
December 29, 2004, 04:21 AM
C&L in all situations.

Chuck Jennings
December 29, 2004, 04:24 AM
870 "cruiser ready" 1911 C&L.

wildehond
December 29, 2004, 07:11 AM
Hi

My carry a Government model cocked and lock allday and it goes in my night stand like that every night. I have no problem with that.

wildehond

Shovelhead
December 29, 2004, 07:11 AM
1911 C&L, Mossberg 500 five in the mag, 4 in the stock, one in the spout.

Swamprabbit
December 29, 2004, 07:13 AM
C&L'd

Bacchus
December 29, 2004, 07:48 AM
C&L at all times.

1911Tuner
December 29, 2004, 07:52 AM
I have personal experience with a Colt that was stored cocked and locked....magazine loaded...for over 60 years. The chamber was cleared, examined, reloaded and fired with the same ammunition. It functioned just like it was designed to, right up to slidelock on empty.

Matt G
December 29, 2004, 08:46 AM
This is funny-- I find myself the proponent of an obstacle. :what: Unusual for me.

I carry a 1911 cocked and locked. While at home I keep one in Condition One on a high shelf. But at bedside... I want an obstacle to my dreamlike conditions.

Think to yourself. Be HONEST, here-- haven't you had your significant other or a friend refer to a conversation that they had with you after you had answered the bedside phone, but which you had ZERO recollection of? I've had half-hour conversations (proved by information that I gave out or I wouldn't believe it) that I have no memory of.

My wife's family has a strain of somnambulance running through it. My wife's father used to walk around the house, dead asleep. My wife doesn't seem to do it (though she sleeps with her eyes open), but my eldest daughter has a few times. Scares me, actually. I have no idea if I could ever do that. I sure hope not. But here's the deal-- my bedside gun requires a little finagling to actuate. I have a DAC SportSafe (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2221464&cat=136858&type=21&dept=4125&path=0%3A4125%3A4155%3A136858) with a pushbutton code bolted to my bedside table. Yes, it does actually add about 2 full seconds to getting my gun (virtually silently), but I don't find myself terrified of my actions in my sleep.

My mother, before her arthritis made it unfeasible to rack it, used to keep a Colt Government Model as her house gun. When I was still a teenager, I noticed and was surprised that she kept it in Condition Three. (She had been trained properly, and knew that Condition One was an inherently safe way to carry. I asked her why. She expressed just my above concern, and said that she would rather have to rack a round than worry about taking lethal action before waking fully. I didn't understand then. As a daddy of two and a husband, I understand now.

1911Tuner
December 29, 2004, 10:08 AM
Very good points made by MattG, and something to think about on a serious level. I'd like to take the opportunity to recommend the best first-line of defense that would jolt us awake and provide the buffer of time to shake the cobwebs out and take the first steps to defend the home against an invader.

That device would be none other than man's best friend...the dog. The mouthier the better. I have four Collies that free-roam the house at night.
The female is the alarm...The three males stand by to repel borders when they're alerted by the Labs, who maintain a vigil over the yard unless they're in the basement.

It's a good system...and you'll quickly learn to tell the difference between a
"What's the moon doin' in my window" bark and the real deal. :cool:

Woof!

45auto
December 29, 2004, 10:18 AM
Condition 3.

unreal45
December 29, 2004, 10:48 AM
Cocked & Locked on top of my nightstand.

Swamprabbit
December 29, 2004, 11:03 AM
Good point about needing an "obstacle". That's why mine is located across the room on top of a closet. I figure that if I need something quicker than that, the BG is too close for me to come up out of a dead sleep and deal with anyway. Besides, in my case, I have three kids in the house so "bumps in the night" happen about 6 times every night :rolleyes: .

1911 TERRY
December 29, 2004, 11:18 AM
1911 on the night stand is cocked and locked. Shotgun on the wall just needs a shell cycled into the chamber. I want the intruder to hear that round chambered.

Black Majik
December 29, 2004, 03:43 PM
My 1911 is in Condition 3 on the nightstand.

dairycreek
December 29, 2004, 04:44 PM
C&L all the time :fire:

NavajoNPaleFace
December 29, 2004, 07:15 PM
One in the tube, seven in the clip and hammer forward.

Heavy Barrel
December 29, 2004, 09:05 PM
You guys must all live in troubled areas or be paranoid. :rolleyes:

Zonamo
December 29, 2004, 09:30 PM
One in the tube, seven in the clip and hammer forward.
No offense, but that is the least safe way to carry, especially if you are carrying an older 1911 pattern firearm with no firing pin safety.

Dropping the hammer on a loaded round is an opportunity for Mr. Murphy to knock, and several safeties that are functional when the weapon is cocked and locked are rendered inoperative by the Condition 2 state.

Condition 1 or 3 are much better alternatives.

Of course if it is a Sig or other quality double action firearm, never mind.

GigaBuist
December 29, 2004, 10:40 PM
You guys must all live in troubled areas or be paranoid.
Heavy Barrel, this is something I get fairly often. Not the exact quote, but something similar.

If you had 20+ fire estinquishers in your house wouldn't you feel like a real moron if your house got burned down and you couldn't get to one of them quick enough?

When I have guests at my place I keep a gun on my hip. Typically I'd just have one laying about at the ready but with guests over that's not a prudent thing to do. I don't take exceptional effort to conceal it, however, and it has been noticed. Upon discovery I simply tell them that I would feel rather foolish -IF- something happened and being surrounded by a dozen firearms (and then some) with 5-6,000 rounds of ammo I was caught unable to do anything. They've all understood.

As a child, my mom would sleep with a 20 gauge shotgun and shells in her nightgown when dad was away. Prudent. However, threads like this reinforce the idea that a conditon 3, conditon 2, and even condition 1 "ready" guns are stable, safe, and prudent.

It is not paranoid, it is prepared for the unlikely.

With that said, it's an 870 in Condition 3 (4 rounds of 000 buck, low recoil) and a CZ-75B in Condition 3 with 15 rounds of 9mm Speer Gold Dots typically.

roo_ster
December 29, 2004, 10:51 PM
My SW1911 is in Condition One, in the aforementioned DAC Sportsafe, with a Surefire G2 Nitrolon light on top of the safe.

Two mouthy German Shorthaired Pointers as EWS.

NavajoNPaleFace
December 29, 2004, 11:56 PM
Zonamo, I responded with the idea of a weapon on the nightstand and not being carried.

The hammer is forward but at half cock so it's not a safety issue.

I like it that way and I don't see any more safety issues than if it were cocked and the safety was on and I fumbled to find the safety in a red condition (I have far too many handguns to try and remember all of the safeties on a particular gun in the time of an emergency.).

But, thanks for your concerns.

Heavy Barrel, being prepared is not necessarily the same as living in a bad neighborhood or being paranoid. I like the idea of, at least, attempting to have a 'one up' on the bad guy if they come in.

I can just see it now...."Wait.....mister burglar who intends to kill me. I have to load my gun before you can come any closer."

DHart
December 30, 2004, 06:07 AM
Anytime I have a 1911 around that is intended for defense, it's cocked and locked. I have absolutely no doubt about my safety and competence with it whether already awake or freshly awoken. I also have a fully loaded .357 M13, M65, M686, or GP-100 on hand as well. Mossberg fully stoked, also cocked and locked. No children in the house... well, except this guy:

Mister Harley
http://www.legendportraits.com/Images/MisterHarley.jpg

Of equal importance, I think, if possible your bedroom door should be locked so no one can creep in on you and get the jump on you while you are asleep (sometimes dogs sleep through some things!) also, a charged and turned-on cell phone should be by the bed to allow contact with the police regardless of your land line's status, and a good flashlight! I'm not paranoid... just prepared.
:cool:

71Commander
December 30, 2004, 08:12 AM
Just the thought of hearing a noise and your response is to rack the slide while in a state of anxiety. Yikes. :what: At that moment, before a threat has been identified, your gun has been put into condition "0". Hammer cocked, fully stoked and NO safety engaged, except half a concious brain. :what:

I have my bedside gun C&L'ed. If I didn't feel secure keeping it that way, i'd keep revolvers on the table (which my wife does).

Leaky Waders
December 30, 2004, 08:56 AM
condition 4 when inside the wire.

At home, in the States, everything is condition 4 too. If travelling/carrying then they are condition 3.

But none are 1911's yet...just auto beretta's. When I get home I'm still debating between a 1911 in .38 super or a 3913 smith. My fickle mind changes monthly on that one.

My two pesos worth,

L.W.

Leaky Waders
December 30, 2004, 08:57 AM
Killer Bike!!!

Zonamo
December 30, 2004, 10:42 AM
The hammer is forward but at half cock so it's not a safety issue.
Once it is in that condition, yes, except for the very unlikely possibility of being dropped on the half-cocked hammer with the safety off (assuming no firing pin safety). When I said least safe, I did not mean to imply that your choice was unsafe, just in a condition with less safety features engaged. When I said preferable, I did not mean to imply that your choice was unacceptable.

I like it that way
Then far be it from me to tell you otherwise, if that is what you are practiced and comfortable with.

I don't see any more safety issues than if it were cocked and the safety was on and I fumbled to find the safety in a red condition (I have far too many handguns to try and remember all of the safeties on a particular gun in the time of an emergency.)
You have a well-reasoned basis for your choice, which brings home the essence of this thread. There are many good reasons for choosing Condition 2 or 3 over Condition 1. Safety and wear are not among them.

But, thanks for your concerns.
Sincerely offered, and meant as a general observation not a personal criticism.

Zonamo
December 30, 2004, 08:16 PM
Couple of reasonably informative links I found on the subject at hand:

Is "Cocked and Locked" Dangerous?-from The Site M1911-A1 page (http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/cockedandlocked.htm)

Cocked And Locked by Robert H. Boatman (http://www.smartcarry.com/cocklock.htm)

PAC 762
December 31, 2004, 03:33 PM
Thanks for the replies. I think I'm leaning towards condition 1.

Zach S
January 2, 2005, 12:04 PM
My 1911 is holstered under my bed, with my 590 not far away. Both are in C1.

bama1911
January 2, 2005, 01:09 PM
Even though I carry a 1911 C&L. By my bed I keep a S&W 686 so when I'm woken in the night I don't have to worry about a safety, is a round in the chamber or if the hammer is cocked. I want to keep it as simple as I can.

If you enjoyed reading about "1911 bedstand gun... cocked & locked???" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!