What's in YOUR Barrel? (Borescope Vid)


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Yo
December 28, 2004, 11:20 PM
Ever wondered what the inside of a factory barrel really looks like... and how it compares with a custom hand-lapped match barrel.

Rem + Lilja Borescope Video (http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html)

You will be amazed, trust me. Differences are like night and day. :eek:

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Third_Rail
December 29, 2004, 12:12 AM
Wow. :eek:


That's one shiney bore!

mbs357
December 29, 2004, 12:20 AM
The difference is amazing.
*applaud*

DWS1117
December 29, 2004, 12:28 AM
Amazing stuff.

schizrade
December 29, 2004, 12:50 AM
<-- [wonders how crappy his lands and grooves are] :confused:

BamBam-31
December 29, 2004, 01:01 AM
:what: Whoa! Wonder about my barrels....

jojo
December 29, 2004, 07:49 AM
What can you say but WOW :what: , thats quite a barrel. I'm sure none of mine look that way. :(

jojo

Cindog
December 29, 2004, 08:16 AM
WOW!!! :what: I can't even imagine what my first 10/22 barrel would like like under the scope. Poor barrel, I'm sorry.

kaferhaus
December 29, 2004, 09:24 AM
I have a bore scope that gets used at least weekly, and I can assure you that the remington barrel they pulled is not a "typical" Remington barrel.

I've no doubt that's it was exactly as Lilja said. I don't believe for a minute that this was an intentional stunt, just more of an opportunity that presented itself.

If the owner had returned that gun to Remington (likely he would have had to point out the issue with the rifling) they would have replaced it for him.

I've seen plenty of damn nice Remington, Winchester and Browning barrels.

But..

Expecting a $400-$500 rifle to be wearing a barrel that even approaches the quality of a Lilja, Hart etc. is ridiculous.

you'll pay that or more to get one of these chambered, threaded and fitted to your action.

The difference is in the preparation of the blank BEFORE it's rifled and then the lead lapping afterwards. All very labor intensive, time consuming operations.

Remington etc, can build the entire gun in that amount of time.

Run a bore scope down a Savage sometime! But many I've scoped shot great... bores looked like someone rifled it with a chisel and most of them foul like hell.

Peter M. Eick
December 29, 2004, 09:47 AM
Truly an amazing video.

To me, I guess I am more interested in buying a bore scope then running down the Remington Barrel or buying a custom barrel. The critical question is in the title. Who cares what I can buy, I want to know what is in MY barrels right now.

I guess I better start investigating the bore scope costs.

kaferhaus
December 29, 2004, 10:14 AM
I guess I better start investigating the bore scope costs.

About $479 for a straight one and add $250 for an angled eyepiece.

The critical question is in the title. Who cares what I can buy, I want to know what is in MY barrels right now.

If the barrel is shooting up to your expectations/needs/ability, does it really matter?

I've rebarreled rifles for more than a few customers that come back and say "it won't shoot any better than what I had". A quick trip out back has always shown that THEY are not shooting any better than they did! LOL

A hunting (other than long range varmint work) rifle with a benchrest quality barrel and ammo is in my opinion a big waste of money. (But I'll sell you one! :-) )

There are very few people on this planet that can shoot inch groups or better off hand or kneeling/sitting. Now if you do your hunting laying prone in the mud all strapped up.... God bless you!

Peter M. Eick
December 29, 2004, 11:38 AM
From my perspective, target shooting (not a hunter here) is a lot in your head. If I think that I have my bases covered and my barrel is clean, I tend to do better then when I start letting the gremlins in my head get the better of my skill.

Either way, the bore scope sounds reasonable. Besides It looks like a lot of fun and isn't that what drives a lot of this sport after all?

Also, I am going to change out a barrel in my 25-06. Its a stainless fluted and I don't like the looks of the fluting. The gun shoots well, but maybe the bore scope would convince me to dump the barrel sooner rather then later. Again, it is the "fun" factor more then anything.

Sam Adams
December 29, 2004, 11:48 AM
This video is, without intending to be so, a very good advertisement for David Tubb's Final Finish system. No, it isn't as good as hand-lapping, but it will get rid of almost all of the tool marks and make the bore a lot smoother (and, therefore, harder to foul and easier to clean). Anyone who is a C&R dealer can get the Final Finish system from Midway or Brownell's for under $23. Even if the innards will only be 80% as good as a hand-lapped Lilja, the price can't be beat.

BTW, I have no connection whatsoever with any person or company that benefits from sales of David Tubb's products.

Here are some places to research the product:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/affordable_accuracy.htm

http://www.zediker.com/tubb/finalfinish.html

http://www.jarheadtop.com/article_finalfinish.html

http://www.snipercountry.com/InReviews/DavidTubbsFinalFinish.asp

tc300mag1
December 29, 2004, 12:41 PM
amazing video .. When i had my 300 mag Remington muzzle braked the guys at the shop broke out the bore scope and let me check it out .. Also showed me where the lip is left when they cut the barrels off after attaching to action basically with a chop saw..



Lip looked huge rifle shot well but they were taking that part out anyways when they recrowned the barrel.. Shoots better now .

kaferhaus
December 29, 2004, 12:55 PM
a very good advertisement for David Tubb's Final Finish system.

you'll also find many people who feel it's a waste of money.

i tried this 'system" several times and all I ever noticed was more barrel wear, I'd certainly not ever try it on a barrel that was anywhere near new...

It may have a use for old military mausers and the like that have rough bores to begin with...

A good smith and a lead lap will cure "minor" ills, but blowing a "sandpaper" coated bullet down the barrel at high velocity/pressure/heat is not my idea of being helpfull.

It certainly wouldn't have helped the barrel in the video. Also to try and correct for any "burrs" or such using Tubb's system you'd have to shoot enough of them down the bore to pretty much wear it out.

Many other smith's I've talked to have the same opinion of it. I'm sure some somewhere like it, but I've never met one.

esldude
December 29, 2004, 01:05 PM
My thoughts too upon viewing the video is that Remington barrel was far from typical for them. Too many of them shoot very well, and don't foul much.

You can try shooting in a barrel with a digicam, using macro mode, and manual focus. In 30 cal you can get some view into the first few inches of a barrel. Not with the nice angled view of a borescope. But enough to sometimes get a gauge on general rifling and tooling marks. If I could get a angled mirror down the bore, you probably could take useful pictures that way.

Yo
December 29, 2004, 07:32 PM
I have a bore scope that gets used at least weekly, and I can assure you that the remington barrel they pulled is not a "typical" Remington barrel. I've no doubt that's it was exactly as Lilja said. I don't believe for a minute that this was an intentional stunt, just more of an opportunity that presented itself. If the owner had returned that gun to Remington (likely he would have had to point out the issue with the rifling) they would have replaced it for him. I've seen plenty of damn nice Remington, Winchester and Browning barrels.

Well, that may have been a particularly bad Remington, but I can tell you I personally have a Savage barrel that looks just as bad inside when scoped. The transverse tooling marks are even more prominent and you can see with the naked eye, sighting through the breach, that the lands have chipped edges, chatter marks, and are not uniform as they approach the throat.

Anyway, whether the average Rem barrel is better or not, the video does serve the purpose of illustrating "bad quality" vs. "good quality". I commend Dan Lilja for making this vid available.

"If the owner had returned that gun to Remington (likely he would have had to point out the issue with the rifling) they would have replaced it for him."

Don't count on it. Truly. I've sought replacement barrels from Springfield and Savage. In each case they ignored my request and returned the gun unfixed. I had to have the Savage set back and recrowned at my expense because the chamber and muzzle were so bad out of the box.

After fooling around with factory barrels for years, and wasting hundreds of hours on copper removal (I have a suitcase full of solvents), I've almost given up on factory barrels for anything I may shoot in a match or past 200 yards. Bad barrels, ultimately, are a waste of time, powder, and good bullets.

The best factory barrel I've ever seen is on my Pedersoli 45/70. Smooth as glass, no tooling marks, sharp lands, straight. It cleans up with 3-5 wet patches honest. The thing shoot sub-moa with iron sights and has won every match it has entered, yet never seen a brush... so I guess that shows factories CAN do it right--if they want to. :cool:

kaferhaus
December 29, 2004, 08:33 PM
YO: I believe I mentioned the Savage barrel issue in my first post to this thread.. They look horrible, copper foul like nobody's business etc. I agree with what you said on that..

My point was they still shoot good! I have a couple but the factory tubes are long gone down the ebay highway.

I buy them used, usually for 200 bucks and put a Douglas barrel on them. Still have too much money in them, but they shoot great and are easy to clean... the Douglas barrels are a bit easier on the wallet than some of the others.

I've never had a problem with Remington's customer service, I've sent 2 rifles back to them (both for new barrels) over the past 5 years or so and they were always corrected when they came back.

RUGER is another story.... I no longer buy Ruger rifles but I love their sixguns

Savage is a low buck/entry level rifle as they come from the factory and quite frankly I don't expect much out of them.

Slimjim
December 30, 2004, 08:19 PM
Lilja barrels are amazing. My uncle uses them in all the custom rifles he builds. I will be useing one in my custom rifle...as soon as i decide what caliber to build it in!

If you enjoyed reading about "What's in YOUR Barrel? (Borescope Vid)" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!