Police Trade Ins...So here is the scoop


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orangeninja
December 30, 2004, 11:01 AM
Okay I have seen a lot of people asking this or that about police trade pistols and such. So for those of you who don't know here is the low down. For those of you who do know, go to the next thread and don't post "ad nauseum" etc.

Police trades are guns that as a rule have been carried a lot but shot little. Where the gray areas start to appear is how the guns were maintained. Since getting into LEO work I have noticed the following.

1.) The guns get carried every day just about in some type of unlined holster or gun belt with retention devices etc. This may leaving markings at the trigger guard or hammer spur or slide serrations.

2.) The gun butt will usually show markings from things like, seat belts, doors banging into the gun butt (happens a lot) or the fun yet always tedious task of running through bushes, fighting on the ground etc. (This is pretty rare though depending upon the Dept.)

3.) The guns are fired AT MOST every 6 weeks, usually about 150 to 200 rounds. Not much.

4.) Most guns are fired only every 6 months to qualify. Unless you get a cop that actually likes to shoot, which is probably less than 1 in 10.

5.) Upon inspection of weapons at my Dept. you will see guns maintained from little to none I.E. I once found an Officer with rust on the decocker, slide lock and top of chamber on a Sig 226. Very poorly maintained. This is a rare situation though, if the Officer sees a weapon as a life saving tool.

Others will be meticulously maintained. Like mine and about 25% of others. The rest fall somewhere in between.

Others will be maintained but have a crappy armorer providing things like LUBRICANT of wich my Dept does not. Therefore unless the Officer takes it upon themselves to lube before firing (not likely) you will see a little galling on the Stainless/Alloy type weapons.

6.) The guns will be issued for about 8 to 10 years on average, expect about a 10 to 12 year old gun by the time it makes it to you.

7.) Again, depending upon the armorer (most are not really into guns, they just know how to take them apart) the springs will likely be worn out in the mags and possibly the recoil spring. For instance, my Dept. stores the guns with slide locked back, mags fully loaded 24/7. Departments with take home weapons are usually unloaded periodically, but God only knows how they are stored. Be prepared to replace the springs.


So what did we learn. Cosmetically imperfect, shot little, loved little and in need of some TLC upon buying and you have a reasonable expectation for a police trade.


The end.

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Erich
December 30, 2004, 11:09 AM
Amen and well-said! Some of the best values out there. :)

thatguy
December 30, 2004, 02:53 PM
Mostly bought sight unseen, ex-cop guns arrive in conditions that vary from unissued to terrible. I have bought about 20 over they years and maybe one or two ere disappointing while 3 or 4 looked unfired despite being many years old. Never issued, maybe? The rest were well worm but perfect mechanically.

Browns Fan
December 30, 2004, 04:20 PM
I keep hearing about these police trade-in guns and see none. Where in the heck are they?

armedcitizen
December 30, 2004, 05:54 PM
I love 'em! They're the best firearms deal out there. There is only one store in central Ohio that gets them and it is by far the largest, oldest gun store in the area. So, the answer Browns Fan's (I didn't think there were any of you left! :evil: ) question, I would look at your larger, well established gun stores.

If you're in central Ohio, it's Vance's Shooter's Supply. The last batch they advertised were 4" Smith and Wesson 681's for $249 each.

45R
December 30, 2004, 07:52 PM
I picked up a Sig 226 chambered in 9mm for 299. The worst wear was on the slide. The rails were clean. No shiney or metal spots that wore through the anodizing. Probably the best deal that I have ever gotten on a Sig.

Bruce Gray reblued the slide and controls for me and performed a nice trigger job. Pistol runs like a champ!

http://www.pbase.com/45r/image/35429263.jpg

Felonious Monk
December 30, 2004, 08:07 PM
I've just ordered my first ( a Sig P232), and can't wait to see what I'm getting.
Alduro, you mentioned usually being 10-12 years old when 'retired'.

Curious, but how long have the Sig P232's been on the market?
I didn't think they'd been around more than a few years...

Am I mistaken?

Norm357
December 30, 2004, 08:09 PM
Best post ever! Make it a sticky!

m14nut
December 30, 2004, 08:17 PM
I keep hearing about these police trade-in guns and see none. Where in the heck are they?

Heres' one...

A Smith 4506-1

Also have gotten a Beretta 92 in about the same shape, along with my G19 :D

Dave Markowitz
December 30, 2004, 08:23 PM
Excellent post! It should be made a sticky, at least for a little while.

DMF
December 30, 2004, 08:47 PM
Be careful with the blanket statements. It all depends on the agency, and the individual.

3.) The guns are fired AT MOST every 6 weeks, usually about 150 to 200 rounds. Not much.I shoot once a week, 50 rounds minimum, usually 100 to 150 rounds. About half the guys in my field division shoot every two weeks, usually 50 to 100 rounds.
4.) Most guns are fired only every 6 months to qualify. Unless you get a cop that actually likes to shoot, which is probably less than 1 in 10.Well I'd say only about 25% of my field division shoots only on qual day. Although, that includes my boss who after 30+ years of shooting weekly, has decided he doesn't need to shoot as much anymore. However, he usually shoots a perfect or near perfect qualifier (his last score was 296 out of 300) so we cut him some slack. ;) As I said about half our guys shoot twice a month if not more.

Also, our quals are quarterly, and after we do our official qualification course of 60 rounds, we do other firearms training. The last time we did our quals we each fired over 300 rounds, doing lots of things to get us away from just standing on the lane banging away at a paper target.

5.) Upon inspection of weapons at my Dept. you will see guns maintained from little to none I.E. I once found an Officer with rust on the decocker, slide lock and top of chamber on a Sig 226. Very poorly maintained. This is a rare situation though, if the Officer sees a weapon as a life saving tool.

Others will be meticulously maintained. Like mine and about 25% of others. The rest fall somewhere in between.Well in general most of our guys keep their weapons clean and rust free. I do agree that a few of the folks who don't take firearms proficiency and maintenance seriously have had some issues with their guns. However, their bad attitude is not exclusive to firearms, and I avoid working with those agents if at all possible.

Be prepared to replace the springs.Yeah, in my agency if we don't proactively ask for new springs, mags, etc we aren't getting them. I replace the recoil spring every 5-10K rounds, but I doubt most agents will do that. After testing my duty mags, I don't use them on the range so they won't be constantly loaded and unloaded (cycling is what ruins springs fastest, not "taking a set."). I periodically inspect them to ensure they haven't gotten damaged from being carried around, and bumping into things.

m14nut
December 31, 2004, 06:43 AM
http://www.4wd.com/forums/images/smiles/worthless.gif


Pics...we need more pics!!!!! :neener:

Here's the Beretta. You can see there is minimal wear, just from riding the leather.

http://pic10.picturetrail.com/VOL326/682422/1127617/78702008.jpg

and the Glock!!! This gun was a trade in, but appeared to have been sittin on a shelf instead of a holster!

http://pic10.picturetrail.com/VOL326/682422/1127617/78702004.jpg

michiganfan
December 31, 2004, 07:06 AM
Just bought a Bereta 92G trade in from CDNN. It is basically as you describe. Holster wear but the internals are in great shape. the gun was clean and even appeared recently lubed. For $319 you cant beat it.

Billy Sparks
December 31, 2004, 07:41 AM
Browns Fan, most of the shops in NC don't necessarily advertise the gun as a PD turn in. It is just a used gun. Usually you can tell by it having a number or name or dept. initials on it some place. I had a G22 years ago and had JSO on it for Jacksonville Sheriff's Office. Where in NC are you at? I might be able to suggest some shops that might have them.

Fumbler
December 31, 2004, 01:25 PM
The only place in NC that I know of that sells police trade in is Lawmen's in Raleigh.

I have a Sig 228 that came from there. It was a police trade in and was 12 years old, the night sights had reached halflife.
There was a lot of holster wear, I suspect it was carried in kydex.
It was decently clean when doing a field strip.
I did detail strip it and the trigger mechanism, backstrap, and under the recoil lug block thingy, it was full of unburnt powder, dirt, and grease.
I figure no more than 2000 rounds were shot out of it.
I got all new springs and found the recoil spring in the gun was about an inch shorter than the new one, it obviously hadn't been replaced.
Overall very pleased, especially since it was half the cost of a new one.

Browns Fan
December 31, 2004, 03:13 PM
Billy Sparks,
I'm in Fayetteville. We get gun shows at least once a quarter and I have yet to see one sell any LEO trade-ins.

Dienekes
December 31, 2004, 06:26 PM
It varies as to agency and policy. Federal agencies, the last I knew, did not sell or trade in weapons under any conditions. They surplus them to another federal agency or destroy them--unless they just squirrel them away. There is a lot of that. Record keeping is a nightmare. Nothing nefarious, just decades of human error, neglect, and Murphy's Law. The care given those weapons is on a bell curve, from outright abuse to safe queens. The average is still pretty good, due mostly to noncorrosive priming and ammo.

Likewise most don't see all that many rounds through them in the time they are issued out. We ran ours pretty hard with .357s but with qualifications four times a year it still takes years to expend enough to really put wear on the gun. My personal opinion is that very few guns are "worn out" or even in need of much beyond a checkout and spring tuneup when they are replaced. I used to do that on an annual basis for weapons in my agency. Even then it was more a matter of PM than anything else.

Where privately owned weapons are in use the officer often is a pistolero in his own right, and the gun often has a lot of blue wear, some dings, is well maintained, and is mechanically perfect.

I have picked up my share of these and found them to be very good buys. Hard to go wrong with a quality duty gun.

Seven High
December 31, 2004, 06:32 PM
Does anyone know of any place in Indiana that sells police trade ins? I cannot seem to locate any.

FotoTomas
December 31, 2004, 07:46 PM
Shotgun News has ads from the major distributors that wholsale the police trade ins. Your local FFL can order for you and the price is between you and them. I have gone that route as well as lucked in on Police trade ins that the local FFL had in stock.

Most any small gun shop will have them on occasion as they can order from the big dealers/distributors. Whether they do or not is up to them. Go to your local FFL and ask. Might get something started! :)

I am an instructor/armorer for my agency. We keep our weapons locked up at work when not in use. I have a pair of Berettas in NIB condition in the safe with out a round through them. The other 13 weapons at my station are well used after two years on the job but in great shape.

I keep a detailed round count on each weapon and the numbers vary greatly depending on officer and the amount of training they volunteer for. Between 500 to 1000 rounds a year go through the duty pistols.

Off duty stuff is strictly personal weapons and I have no control of those. Different ballgame to be sure.

realmswalker
December 31, 2004, 08:36 PM
anyone know where in LA I can check out where to get a law enforcement trade in firearm. or a web site to get them would be cool.

meh92
December 31, 2004, 10:42 PM
alduro,

Excellent post. I'm an armorer (not one of the crapy ones) and at qualification/inspection time I'm regularly dismayed to see the poor condition some of some of the guns. I'd say your percentages are pretty accurate.

I just picked up a S&W model 66 (no dash) made in 1975 and issued to a department near youngstown, OH. The gun has its share of cosmetic blemishes and a severely dinged up front sight insert, but the action was very tight and it has practically no perceptable endshake... from a stainless .357 K-frame that's pretty remarkable. There was absolutely no flame cutting on the topstrap and no throat erosion. Obviously this was one of the "carried a lot, shot very little" guns.

As for some advice to the forum members, If you are able to request a "hand-select" option for a few extra dollars, do it. A gun with less cosmetic blemishes may very well be an "extra" which was never issued or only issued temporairly while an officer's primary issue was being serviced. Also, it may have been from a "boss" who rarely saw street time and spent his days behind a desk. Either way, those guns may have seen very few rounds downrange and could have a lot more life in them that a beater. no gaurentees here, but I'd spend a few extra dollars for a hand-select, if possible.

JohnKSa
January 1, 2005, 01:27 AM
Bought a police trade-in stainless steel GP100 awhile back. A little time with some emery paper and that puppy looked NEW. Had been shot a bit, but only with .38s--you could tell by the rings in the cylinders. Mechanically it's like new. Possibly one of the best deals I've ever gotten on a gun. It was $200 out the door! :D

thatguy
January 1, 2005, 04:45 PM
Of my many retired police revolvers this is my favorite. Came from the local sheriff's office after they switched to (ugh) Glocks. They dumped all the old guns with a local gun shop that turned them around. Rows and rows of Model 19s with this one N frame .357 circa 1956 sticking out like a sore thumb in the last row. Maybe 70% blue with the smoothest action I have ever felt. For $275 it was mine.

http://www.fototime.com/EDBD2A497F0B167/standard.jpg

Billy Sparks
January 1, 2005, 05:43 PM
Actually a lot of gun stores in NC sell PD trade ins they just don't advertise it as PD trade ins. I know that Beretta puts a little badge on PD guns. I have seen Ed's Guns in Vass sell them Glocks, Berettas, and S&W's.

Rupestris
January 1, 2005, 08:17 PM
I keep hearing about these police trade-in guns and see none. Where in the heck are they?
Does anyone know of any place in Indiana that sells police trade ins? I cannot seem to locate any.

If you have a Gander Mountain in your area, try there. The store here in SE Michigan keeps a good suply of Glocks, S&W 4506's and SIG 226's.
Their prices are probably not the best you'll find but you will have 5 or 6 of each model to chose from (all the same price).

Invisible Swordsman
January 1, 2005, 08:43 PM
Those 681's that armed citizen referred to were just traded in by my agency in November. Most were shot very little, and have spent the last 10-15 years sitting in officer's lockers or our property room. About 3 years after we got them the department started letting officers carry personally owned semi-autos. When we traded them in there were only two officers still carrying them.

Since all qualifying and street ammo was .38 special, none of them were subjected to much stress.

kimbernut
January 4, 2005, 05:06 PM
Seven High- I believe Keislers in Jeffersonville keeps a perpetual supply of one type or another- just going from their Shotgun News ads 3 times a month.


thatguy- That's a fine Smith! Just broken in.

donkee
January 4, 2005, 05:20 PM
Try J&G Sales I just got a S&W model 10-7 3.5" barrel. A few scratches and some dings in the stocks, but nice and tight with a beautiful bore and slick action. AIM surplus had trade in's to. they're out there, just got to find them. My local gun shops tend to ask way too much for them, so I hit the internet. Still cheaper after shipping and transfer fees. Try the local gunshows too, sometimes you can get a gem cheap, other times, way over priced junk.........

Cosmoline
January 4, 2005, 06:37 PM
Love em!

Some of my favorites, from both sides of the Atlantic, include:

Walther PP's.
CZ Model 50 and Model 70
CZ Model 52
Ruger Security Six
S&W Model 10
S&W Model 13
Colt Trooper
Colt Police Positive Special
Colt Official Police

stans
January 5, 2005, 06:00 AM
I have a trade in S&W model 19-3. The interior, including bore and chambers, is pristine, shot very little. The exterior is a nightmare. The barrel has numerous scratches and dings, the cylinder is not as bad, but has some corrosion marks where it contacted the holster. The side plate had to be replaced as the rust was so deep that buffing it out meant the loss of the S&W logo. The back strap no longer has serrations, it has pits so deep it looks like it was stippled. I replaced the side plate myself, not a job I recommend for anyone! I cleaned off the the rust and touched up the spots with cold blue. I did get the shop to through in a pristine set of Herret's target stocks, so the $150 I paid for this trade in was worth the money. How does it shoot? Best double and single action trigger of any of my revovlers, including my two Colt Pythons!!!! :)

tlhelmer
January 5, 2005, 07:45 AM
KimberNut is right! Kieslers is awesome. One of the largest gunstores I have ever seen.

sturmruger
January 5, 2005, 03:05 PM
I would highly recomend CDNN Investments in TX. They have one of the best selections of PD trade ins. If you have never ordered a gun from out of state you are really doing yourself a diservice!!! Some of my best deals have come from CDNN. They have a huge selection in their downloadable catalog, and their shipping is only $9.99 on all handguns.

meh92
January 5, 2005, 03:23 PM
CDNN often has excelent deals. I've never had any merchandise or customer service issues with CDNN.

student
January 5, 2005, 10:22 PM
Several years ago I bought a police trade in Beretta 92F from the New Orleans PD, sight unseen. It looked like sh#t, and I gave it back and coughed up the dough for a new one. In reality it likely was an OK gun, but it looked like it spent about a year in a swamp and a weekend in a cement mixer. I was vain about gun 'looks' back then, now I care about function and cost.

BluesBear
January 6, 2005, 04:34 PM
Seven High, Kiesler's in Jeffersonville (The Sunny Side of Louisville) is one of the largest police distributors on the planet.
They ALWAYS have trade in guns, but they sell to dealers all across the country so inventory changes fast. Give them a call to find out what's there on any given day.
They're really good people to deal with.

BrokenArrow
January 7, 2005, 01:56 PM
IMO, it's kinda like buying Speer's "reclassified" ammo; it's all safe to shoot, but not all of it is good enough to bet your life on. Or buying a rental car... buyer beware.

You do save money, but it is riskier. Most likely will get a good deal, but ya may get sumthin' that was rode hard and put away wet and/or near the end of it's service life. Some are inspected and reconditioned OK, some not at all.

For example, I wouldn't buy a P226 from the late 80s/early 90s w the scalloped frame rails at any price no matter how good it looked and/or how little it had been shot... ;)

Robert J McElwain
January 9, 2005, 07:51 PM
I've purchased two police trade-ins from KY Imports and am very satisfied. Good guns at great prices.

Bob

bstump2
May 11, 2009, 12:42 PM
Recently saw a dealer with several 3rd Gen Glock 22 .40s marked Henrico Sheriff's Office. They were great looking, well maintained apparently. Anyone else see any of these???

Rockwell1
May 11, 2009, 01:14 PM
Just say NO to posting in zombie threads

Mal H
May 11, 2009, 03:59 PM
Ok, I will - NO!

bstump2 if you wish to start a new thread on the pistols, please feel free, but resurrecting a 4 year old thread usually ends in confusion for the new posters.

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