[Greybeard]

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030303-50543080.htm

Good grief! Own any stock in Estes Industries?

[vulcan]

Whats next? Reloading supplies?:banghead:

[Gusgus]

Back in HS (early 70's), I was a member of the model rocket club. NJ back then required a "Amateur Rocketeer" permit, in order to legally purchase engines. Estes wouldn't ship into the state, unless they had a copy of your permit on file.

Lately, I've noticed Estes engines openly for sale in many hobby shops within the state. Jersey must have dropped the permit requirements. Wow, the Feds are now more restrictive then the brain dead tyrants that run Jersey. Amazing.

Oh, and of course the AFT is wrong again. Rocket engines burn, they do not explode (well, at least they are not suppose to).

[Navy joe]

Explode? No, unless of course you fill the rocket body with blackpowder. Another surefire fun source was to make bottle rockets with old hunting arrows, "D" engines and duct tape (:p Tom Ridge). Apparently fun will be outlawed before I have kids and can do such.

[labgrade]

Ah, F-Troop.

Anybody want to bet that radio-controlled model planes are next on the list because they are really nothing more than a civilian's version of an UAV?

[Leatherneck]

Any solid propellant can be made to explode. That obviously is not the intent of modelers. ATF is yet again overstepping their bounds. How many times must they show their colors before they get reined in?:mad:

TC
TFL Survivor

[braindead0]

They'll probably ban baking soda too....

The good news is, unless they can somehow ban urine...we can still get saltpeter, and sulfer and charcoal are relatively easy to come by....:neener:

[labgrade]

"ATF is yet again overstepping their bounds. How many times must they show their colors before they get reined in?"

The quick answer is never, Leatherneck.

We now live in a "brave new world." ATF & their ilk will never be reigned in, till they whole thing comes down & we start over with what freedom used to mean.

These idiots are "out there" making noise about model rocketry while any person with half a brain can have a mini-cam, mounted on an RC-controlled mini-UAV, fully packed with shaped-charge explosives & can dial it right through whatever while sitting at their own PC - remote & totally "innocuous."

GPS, mini-cams, PCs & a bit of skull-sweat ....

Last 50 cal shoot, we had a guy with a PC-prog'd helicopter taking aerial pix of the whole shebang.

Anybody not think one of these type things couldn't be flown into anything one of us "domestic terrorists" would want to?

Proper planning & one of these "model A/Cs" would have a range of 50+ miles & could be steered into anything you'd want to - remote controlled & real time. A flurry of 'em - call it 50 at a whack - would wreak a complete nut-so job on literally anything you'd want to do - with complete "stealth capabilities," BTW.

& the F-Troop's worried about Estes?

Too funny.

& these idiots think the Browning .50 cal "sniper rifle's" a threat .....

They have no idea what they're about to unleash - if they keep tightening the noose.

Next on the ban/"watch out for" list = balsa wood.

Not to be construed as anything threatening, but I've had some training here & there & my mind just goes there. Best way to defeat the threat is to consider all the alternatives .....

Estes. That's choice.

[Justin]

Personally, I don't think these restrictions go far enough.
I won't feel safe until the ATF makes it mandatory that you get a permit before purchasing powdered sugar and non-dairy coffee-creamer. After all, that stuff is incredibly explosive, especially when airborne.:rolleyes:

[labgrade]

Not to mention what the "fluffed" by-product of storing corn will do ....

Fer goodness sakes, you can explode aerial fluff from wheat chaff.

F'ing F-Troop. :rolleyes:

Granted, there's better things to look out for, but there's nothing that can't be overcome & their "oversight" is just plain silly, urbane & theatening to all we once held as freedom.

They've way overstepped their boundary & will some fine day, be held accountable.

Just the nature of the turn about fair play kinda deal.

& such as this is overseeing our "national defense." (sheesh)

[Bainx]

A friend of mine at work stated that the badgering and hasseling by the ATF was so bad, he gave up the hobby of flying rockets [the BIG ONES].

[geekWithA.45]

Why don't we just get it over with,

And lock EVERYONE :what: up.


Everyone gets an individual, padded cell, with a straightjacket.

It's really the ONLY way to make sure that everyone's safe, snug and secure.

And besides, it's for the children.

:barf:

[P95Carry]

I can't really say what I think ........ my chosen invective would I am sure give the mod's some editing to do!!!

Oh and ... I am a keen R/C model pilot also ... and I am damned if anyone's gonna make that be ''controlled'' ........ hell!!

Godammit .. I really need to rant................. !!!!:fire:

[Ian]

My roommate and I wrote letters to our Senators about this issue, and my roommate also phoned his. He spoke with an aid for Senator Voinavich (sp?) of Ohio, who said that they hadn't taken a side yet. Apparently, while they recognize that people like model rockets, they are afraid that terrorists could buy a trackload of Estes engines and build anti-aircraft missiles with them.

...
It's a shame that being elected requires only good PR, ain't it? A modicum of KNOWLEDGE on the topic being banned would be nice! :fire: :banghead:
...

For the record: To launch a 3 pound payload of explosives, a rocket would need about 100 18mm Estes engines. It need a 10-inch body tube and nose cone (not readily available), would be unguided, and have a max altitude 1,051 feet (and a flight duration of 6.5 sec). Furthermore, getting all 100 engines to light simultaneously would be practically impossible.

[Monkeyleg]

Estes rockets. Geeziz, that goes back nearly 40 years.

I and my equally-nerdy friends used to build and launch them in our subdivision. About the most dangerous thing that ever happened was when one guy didn't construct his properly. It launched, then at a height of about three feet, did a ninety-degree and shot sideways down the street.

Ayn Rand was really prescient: we've almost reached the point where every citizen is a criminal.