[Drizzt]

California Gun Owners Blamed
For The Loss of Gun Rights

Gun Owners Are All Bark and no Bite!

By Ralph Weller
Editor, GunNewsDaily.com
.

March 3, 2003 - It has been suspected for quite some time that gun owners were generally all mouth and no action. But, we really didn't understand the gravity of the situation until we received an email from John Brantuk, 2002 candidate for the 56th Assembly District in Southern California. John is upset, and he has every right to be.

John had a shot of winning his district had he received the pro-gun vote. Southern Californians don't need to be told how pro-Second Amendment John is. Suffice it to say, he's one of those rare types who makes protecting our Second Amendment rights a top priority in his personal and public life. But, the information he sent in his email is the type of information that makes the hearts soar of gun grabber Don Perata and other liberals of his ilk in Sacramento. It is the kind of information liberals know about, but very few pro-gun types are willing to acknowledge. So who got the pro-gun vote instead of John Brantuk? The answer is most disappointing.

John took a look at a list of people that regularly attended gun shows in his district. He compared the attendee list to voter registration lists to determine how many of the 12,000 gun show attendees were registered to vote.

Do you want to guess the results? Would you say only half are registered? You would be considered an eternal optimist if that was your guess. How about 30%? Well, you're getting closer, but you still have a long, long way to go. How about 10%. No, you're still too high. No... I'm not kidding. Try about 670 people. That's a whopping 5.6% of gun show attendees are registered to vote. Now, of those 670, an optimistic number of those who voted would probably range at about 50%. That means of the 12,000 gun show attendees only about 335 probably voted. Ok, that's being a little harsh. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that all 670 voted. Somehow inflating the number won't make most feel all that much better about the whole thing.

The problem is, there is no pro-gun vote in California. John didn't get the pro-gun vote, but neither did anyone else! It doesn't exist because the overwhelming majority of gun owners don't vote. And the liberals know it and act upon it with impunity. They don't fear California gun owners! Why would they? Gun owners certainly won't vote them out of office!

Are John Brantuk's results indicative of the rest of California? Sure they are. In fact, most professional pollsters use around 1000 people to achieve very accurate results. John had 12,000 gun owners on a list and registered voting lists that simply don't lie. This is pure data. Not thoughts, not polls, not desires. It's the real thing, and unfortunately it is fact!

The bottom line is gun owners could own California if they vote. John Brantuk would be in the state assembly this very day protecting gun owner's rights along with dozens of other newly elected pro-gun legislators. Instead, gun owners lament the demise of Second Amendment rights and take NO ACTION to resolve it. Gun owners are the problem in California. They're all bark and no bite.

Gun owners avail themselves of the right to participate in freedom of speech on the net, but do nothing to preserve it. They complain endlessly about erosion of Second Amendment rights, but do nothing to change it. Gun owners claim they'll have to pry their guns from their 'cold dead hands' before allowing them to be confiscated. But, gun owners don't vote because they're afraid to be on a government list? California gun owners aren't scaring anyone with their bravado, least of all liberal politicians. If gun owners can't demand their rights in the voting booth, it is easily assumed they'll fold like the paper tiger they're perceived to be when they come knocking for their guns.

On the other hand, those who do vote deserve a medal because they're a rare breed of people. Very rare as the numbers go. They are so out of the mainstream they could almost be classified as a radical fringe group. Those who don't vote deserve a bigger medal hung around they're neck and a short plank into the Pacific because that's all they're worth... fish food.

A lot of people think erroneously that California is hopeless because liberals outnumber conservatives. It's clear gun owners outnumber themselves. Gun owners are engaged in an act of self-flagellation. They love victims and they are it. They wallow in their own self-pity claiming this or that pro-gun group, Northern California liberals, or the Brady Bunch are their downfall.

Here it is point blank. There is no one else to blame. 'We have met the enemy and it is us.' Only when gun owners finally take charge of their destiny will all this anti-gun nonsense come to an end. Until then, hope and pray gun owners take action at the polls before they knock on your door demanding your firearms. If California reaches that point, it's too late because most of you cannot be depended on to do anything. You've already proven that.

John Brantuk is going to run again in 2004. For the life of me, I can't imagine why he would waste his time if he can't count on gun owners to get him into office. But John is a driven man with a vision of saving gun rights in California. If you are inclined, there are few people in this state that deserve gun owner's support more than John. Visit his site and donate. Then register to vote online using the link below and start participating in the only process that will make a difference. VOTE!

One final comment. Can you imagine John's shock as he matched up gun show attendees to voter lists and recognized fellow gun owners in the community who "support" him, only to find the people who talk a good game aren't even registered to vote? A lesser person would have thrown in the towel and called it quits. Don't be a big mouth spouting about how no one in California is protecting your rights. It starts with you. If you can't do anything about it, don't expect your neighbors to do something. They probably aren't voting either so it's up to you, the individual gun owner to make a difference.

Make your check or money order payable to "Brantuk For Assembly" and mail it to:
Brantuk For Assembly
P.O. Box 171
Whittier, CA 90608
Or donate online at:
www.BrantukForAssembly.org
(562) 698-2870 Phone
(562) 698-2810 Fax

Do something useful with your life and register, then vote!

Register to vote on-line

Your comments are welcome: rweller@cris.com

Unrestricted distribution and republishing of this article authorized
providing credit is given to GunNewsDaily.com as the originating source.

http://www.gunnewsdaily.com/rw509.html

[MitchSchaft]

All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

-Sir Edmond Burke

[CZ-75]

Sad.

Some of these folks would seem to be the sporting clays/pheasant hunter folks and deer hunters who think long guns, so long as they aren't "evil" and black, will not be taken away.

Truth is, gun ownership includes far more people than have any use for the 2nd.

Even Andrew Cuomo owns a shotgun for sporting clays.

[Phyphor]

Exactly. For every ONE person that's active (such as myself,) there's always 20-50 who own guns, but think "Oh well, it's not going to affect me. "

That's probably what they thought when the SKS ban came through, then the "junk guns" ban...

Now, I'm wondering where they'll go from here... gawd, I gotta get outta here.
:fire: :cuss: :banghead:

[UnknownSailor]

Ya know, this is the third thread on this subject. ;)

Not to rain on anyone's parade.......

[riverdog]

... and I always vote. I usually vote a straight Republican ticket unless a particular candidate stands out enough to make me vote otherwise. What does that matter though? I will be out of this state before the next election, unless the recall Davis group gives me another opportunity to vote against him ;)

[bad_dad_brad]

I vote in every election. I consider the key issues to be sound economics, quality education, anti-abortion, pro-gun, and a strong defense.

I hardly ever vote for anyone but a Republican.

But the key is, for all gun owners, dang it, GET OUT THERE AND VOTE!!! If you are not voting, then shut your yap about gun control, because you have no excuse to whine if you DO NOT VOTE! None.

[MitchSchaft]

this is the third thread on this subject.

Some issues deserve more than one thread. This one deserves 100 threads, IMO.

[Sven]

Registered and I vote. And I support CRPA and NRA (easypay life). And I take my liberal friends out shootin.

But there is more I could do, I know.

[Standing Wolf]

I vote in every election, and I'm often the first to vote at my polling place.

I question the percentage of gun show attendees who are registered voters: the numbers given don't seem at all realistic.

[Sven]

Do you ever see voting registration at gun shows?

[MitchSchaft]

Do you ever see voting registration at gun shows?

AHHA! This an excellent idea. I'll see if we can set up a table like that.

[CZ-75]

Not only Voter Registration, but Brantuk needs to make his point, so he should be at every gun show in his district for 6 months before an election, either with a table he paid for, or is donated by the exhibitor, right up front.

He needs to make it clear how the 12000 gun show attendees, had they been registered, would've made the difference for gun rights candidates like himself.

[QuickDraw]

Couple a things.
How did he get the names of the people attending a gun show?
I've never "registered" to enter one.
I was at a local gun show a couple of weeks ago.Seems theres always someone
wanting you to sign a petition for something.
I,like Sven,was wondering "howse come
theres always some petition but no voter registration"?
It is truly amazing how many people b--ch and moan and then
claim they don't vote!
I guess I'm a minority...voter,gun owner!:rolleyes:
I'll have to call the registrar of voters and find out whats involved
in registering voters.
Good reason to go to a gun show(like I need one!):D

QuickDraw

[JohnBT]

I'll bite too...

...what is a gun show "attendee list"?

Is that a California invention?

Just curious. And voter registration is a good idea.

John

[Master Blaster]

I hate liars

QUOTE

John took a look at a list of people that regularly attended gun shows in his district. He compared the attendee list to voter registration lists to determine how many of the 12,000 gun show attendees were registered to vote.

END QUOTE

HORSEPOOP, there is no itemized list of gunshow attendees.

Maybe an estimate that 12,000 attended gunshows, and he had 670 votes in total?

Since when do they keep itemized lists by name of who voted and share the vote by persons name with the candidate???


They call it a SECRET BALLOT FOR A REASON.

[Russ]

QuickDraw and John BT,

Good question!. If you really do care where the gun show list may have come from, go to the original article and E mail Ralph Weller who wrote it and ask him. There is another thread on this entitled (CA) Comments? where his e-mail address is listed. It's listed above also.

Please report back on what you find out. I don't know if he knows since he was relying on Brantuk. As he said:

Your comments are welcome: rweller@cris.com

[CZ-75]

They call it a SECRET BALLOT FOR A REASON.

They check ID before you vote. Why can't they mark you "present"?

[David Park]

Since when do they keep itemized lists by name of who voted and share the vote by persons name with the candidate??? He just looked at the list of those registered to vote, not those who actually voted (which as the article suggests was probably a smaller number than 670).

I, too, would like to know how he got a list of gun show attendees. Maybe he collected the names himself at shows? Candidates usually have a mailing list of supporters.

[seeker_two]

Like the residents of Chigago's cemetaries, I vote early & often...:evil:

[Monkeyleg]

I have no idea how he could have gotten a list of gun show attendees, but lists of voters are available here in WI from the state. You can also get a list of ballots that show how a voter voted. Both parties do that in order to find "independent" voters. If you cross party lines when you vote, they want your name and address so they can hammer you with literature.

Regardless of whether the above story is true or not, the author's point is. Work a political table at a gun show sometime. After doing a few, the blank stares, grunts and rude comments you'll get from gunowners will make you want to buttstroke them.

[Sven]

This brings me to one of the sad realities of gun culture: paranoia.

I'm sure a lot of those folks at gun shows don't want to register because then the gov'ment will know where they live and can come and take their guns someday. Perhaps a prudent fear?

The other side would prefer that we not vote or organize. The atmosphere of fear surrounding gun culture today ensures that - unless some of us swim against the stream - we are destined to stay isolated and cut off from any chance of political success.

My personal hope is that by making firearms politically correct on a small scale (namely, by taking friends shooting), I can eventually have some effect on the global outcome.

I took my voting application from Jessie Jackson, who was speaking at my college. Wonder how Jessie would feel about my voting record?

:evil:

[2nd Amendment]

The Attendees List is easy; Gun show promoter offers door prize, for which you register. Promoter harvests those names for a mailing list which he uses to advertise every area gun show he is involved in, via postcard. Our hero simply has a buddy who is a promoter/organizer and handed over his list...

Makes ya all warm and fuzzy inside, eh?

[MikeK]

I also question how he got the list of 12,000. However, as others have pointed out, the concept of the article is still good. I work a political table at local gun shows and the number of registered voters seems much higher here (purely subjective). There is voter registration at gun shows in our area (or at least passing out of registration forms).

I circulated this article to some local activists and as a result we may take some polls of gun show attendees regarding voter registration, party affiliation and some other items of interest.

It would be easy to get a head count of attendees, and many might fill out the promoters form as suggested earlier.

Only 3 threads on the subject?

[Russ]

I e-mailed Ralph Weller, the author of the article yesterday afternoon. He got back to me and said he would be posting information as to how the gun show attendee numbers were arrived at in a couple of days. If you haven't visited his site, check it out. Great place for news from all over.

www.gunnewsdaily.com

I found Jim March and TFL through Ralph site.

[twoblink]

When I was in the PRK, always voted... always voted libertarian, the REAL group that is concerned with the 2nd amendment, but I always voted.

[JohnBT]

Thanks for asking him.

This should be good. I doubt if half, or even a tenth, of gun show attendees enter the raffles or sign up for anything like a mailing list of future show dates.

Maybe they had the police or someone with connections videotape the license plates in the lot and make a list of the registered owners. But that doesn't equate to a list of who actually drove the cars to the show - only who owned them - or who rode with them.

Like I said, this should be good. I'm keeping an open mind, but not so open my brains fall out and I believe just any old story.

John

[emc]

As an example of how politicos DO pay attention to votes, let me pass along the following example. The details are to the best of my recollection.

At the time that the Assault Weapon Ban was under consideration, a delegation of gun owners organized by some of the NRA volunteer coordinators attempted to meet with Richard Lugar, one of the Indiana senators. He kept them waiting for months before he would even see them, and ultimately voted FOR the ban. [Many of us Hoosiers are all too well aware of his posturing as a conservative when he's back in town, while his voting record tells a different tale, the swine. Unfortunately, not enough people are aware of this.] When questioned on this, and presented with petitions in opposition to the ban, a staffer replied that they had checked the lists of names on the petitions, and found that the majority of them were not registered to vote, so that this wasn't anything that the Senator was going to worry about. This account was provided to me by one of the volunteer coordinators.

This is a good example of how calculating these jerks are. Principles? Standing up for the Bill of Rights? Doesn't mean a damn thing unless it helps them get out in front on something that looks good in the various polls taken by the liberals.

It's up to us to understand how this game is played, and then to beat them at it.

FWIW,

emc

[No4Mk1*]

Wouldn't it be nice if gun stores, ranges, and shows provided a small discount if you showed your voter registration card? I have never seen this so maybe I will speak with a few local shops about the idea. I would preferentially conduct my business at places that offered even a $1 discount upon display of a voter registration card. They wouldn't take names or anything, just glance at the card and give the discount.

[Skunkabilly]

The only Republican I voted for was Simon, I guess you can blame me.

[Russ]

Here is the reply to all of you doubters about how the gun show statistics and voter registration correlations were made. This from
www.gunnewsdaily.com The article is by Ralph Weller.


Gun Owners Vote?
The Numbers Say Otherwise.

By Ralph Weller
Editor, GunNewsDaily.com
.

March 10, 2003 - I was only half-amazed at some of the responses to my article "California Gun Owners Blamed For Loss Of Gun Rights" published March 3, 2003. I fully expected some negative email, but I didn't expect such viciousness. A couple of you need professional help because you're just plain sick.
To those who wrote to tell me you vote, thank you for your dedication to ensuring freedoms in this wonderful country of ours. It is people such as you that deserve praise for your efforts. You are the patriots in this fight to protect our constitutional rights. However, because you vote, don't assume most gun owners vote as a number of you stated. That just isn't the case.

To those who wrote to argue that the data is flawed, let's take it from the top with a little more detail.

People are on gun show mailing lists ALL OVER THIS COUNTRY! Some of you are having a hard time believing it. Here are the facts:

12,000 people were on a gun show mailing list that reside in 56th Assembly District. To the one person who wrote and said there are no gun shows in the 56th AD, therefore the data is a lie... you sir are obviously not the brightest bulb in the factory. So we'll go on.
Those on the list receive a card in the mail announcing the gun show about one to two weeks before the show is held in the region.
The card offers a discount to get in or a chance for nice prizes if they bring the card to the show. It all depends on the gun show promoter. Some promoters do it. Some don't.
The card holder is given their discount in exchange for the card, or the card is put into a hopper for a drawing.
If you never bring the card your name is eventually dropped from the mailing list. Therefore, not all people who attend a gun show are on the mailing list.
If you are on the mailing list, you are in most instances, in all probability, a regular gun show attendee that brings the card to the show. Get it?
To get on the mailing list, some gun shows just let you sign-up at the show. Some people enter drawings that occur frequently during the day. Some let you sign up on their website. Yes, some gun show promoters have no mailing list, but a lot do.
How many more than the 12,000 attend gun shows from that district is unknown. Any guess is pure speculation. However, we do know that of those on the list, about 670 are registered to vote. You may find these numbers hard to believe. Trust me. Don't spend much time analyzing it because you are whizzing into the wind. If this were 12,000 people who shop at Vons or Ralphs and only 670 vote, it probably would be disturbing enough. But for them to be gun show attendees is deplorable.
Some of you said the data is skewed or erroneous because not all the people who attend gun shows are on the list. Does this mean those who aren't on the list vote, and those who are on the list don't vote? Where did you get your data? You don't have data. You have nothing!

One person said gun owners don't attend gun shows. He doesn't know one gun owner that attends so the data can't be right. Huh? Oh well.

Does the data mean that only 5.6% of ALL California gun owners are registered to vote? This is unknown. But 12,000 people is one heck of a large sample size. It is probably representative of the L.A. region. But, it is highly unlikely that San Diego, San Francisco and other heavily populated metropolitan areas have significantly varying numbers. Again, that's pure speculation based on the results of the 56th AD. Some of you are far better at speculation than I, based on some of the email I received.

Some of you couldn't understand how that data could be correlated accurately using a PC, specifically a gun show list to a voter registration list. Proclamations were then made that the data is false and how dare we publish such information. I'm always amused by people who draw different conclusions from the data but offer nothing to back up their assumptions.

Let me offer another scenario that some I know won't believe. Split the 12,000 names sorted appropriately across ten people armed with voter registration lists. The answer is provided within several hours of hard work. The election was in November, this is March. Do you think the Brantuk team had enough time to do this manually with reasonable accuracy? Do you really insist that a program must be written to sort the data by a MAC or PC in order to determine the results? Using that logic, the whole country must have been complete idiots prior to the advent of PCs in the early 1980s. I can assure you we were not.

If you continue to have lingering doubts about whether gun owners are on board, let me alleviate the internal pressure from within your cranium. Volunteer to work at a GOA, GOC, NRA or CRPA booth at a gun show with the express goal of registering voters. If you don't want to go home discouraged at the end of the day, it's not the thing to do. You won't believe the number of people who will refuse to register, and the unbelievable reasons they will give you why they won't. And, no matter how much persuasion you use, they will not budge an inch. I know, I've done it. You're lucky if you can get 1 out of 100 to register. I received a number of responses from people who have been equally frustrated by their "get out the vote" efforts. It's dismal to say the least.

Need more proof that gun owners don't participate? It is estimated there are at least 5 million people in California that own firearms. If you think that's over-estimated, cut it in half. Only about 60,000 belong to the California Rifle and Pistol Association. There are some 76 million gun owners in this country. Some number less than six million belong to ANY pro-gun organization. Do the math. It's clear that most gun owners are completely oblivious to what's going on, or simply don't care. A small minority are pulling the wagon for the rest of them. I want them off the wagon and helping to pull the load!

Every pro-gun organization has done sampling of voter registration records to their membership rolls. The number registered to vote is horribly low. If the pro-gun organization is honest with you, they'll tell you the truth. It isn't good. Pro-gun organizations wouldn't waste their money every election trying to get their own members to register and vote. They wouldn't have to spend good money preaching to the choir. They know a huge number aren't registered. But based on your email responses to my last article, a lot of you out there just aren't buying it. That's your opinion. You can certainly believe what you want. However, you are wrong and I defy anyone out there to come up with the data that would prove otherwise. It doesn't exist, at least not in the large metro areas of California.

And now, for the clincher. Los Angeles had an election March 4. The voter turnout was abysmal. 13% of registered voters made it to the polls. About 185,000 went to the polls out of 1.4 million registered voters. It's fair to say with all the anti-gun nonsense going on at the L.A. City Council recently, gun owners could have owned this election. The sad part of this is, not only did they not show up, hardly anyone showed up. And the people who did, put into office some of the most liberal anti-gun jerks one can imagine by large margins. Does the name Antonio Villaraigosa ring a bell? He was only one of the most rabid anti-gun Assembly Leaders ever to preside over the California Assembly. As of March 4, he's now a new L.A. City councilman. Do you think the pro-gun vote came out in droves when only 13% of registered voters went to the polls? Obviously not. And please, don't tell me there was no one else to vote for. ANYONE would have been better than this clown.

Why did former state Assemblyman Rod Wright, running for the 10th Council District in L.A., end up third with only 2100 votes? He's pro-gun to the hilt and a Democrat on top of it all! Where were the gun owners in a district that only mustered about 16,000 people to the polls? If the pro-gun vote went to the polls, Rod Wright would be on the L.A. City Council.

If the March 4 L.A. election is not illustrative of the problem we have with gun owners, at least in the L.A. area, I don't know what is.

To those who said the information is a lie or wrong: First, I don't lie. Secondly, if I screw up and publish bad information, I'll retract it as I have in the past. I'll make it available to everyone and I will take the heat quite deservedly. But folks, I don't lie. Everyone that knows me will back that up. I had a boss tell me once: "Weller, you're just too damn honest." I consider his criticism a badge of honor.

Lastly, to the person who said on one hand gun owners vote, but doubt that gun owners would sign up on a gun show mailing list because they are deeply distrustful of lists... you answered the problem in a nutshell. The same people who will say, 'oh not me, I'm not going register and be on a government list'... walk around with a driver's license and a social security card in their wallets and pay taxes every year. They routinely clean their handguns for which California has a record of the purchase if purchased since 1979. And their response is 'I don't want to be on a government list.' Good grief! Trying to get people to vote assumes you're talking with someone that has at least half their brain intact.

Press me with data folks, not your feelings. If you want feelings, hang around with liberals. The bottom line is this: A lot of gun owners aren't voting. They're either paranoid, ignorant of what's going on, don't care anymore, dropped out, or lazy. It may not be as bad in all regions of the state as some of you have speculated. But one thing is for certain: The L.A. region isn't going to win any patriot awards. The city elections results of March 4, 2003 back that up.

To win the battle statewide, we need gun owners in the major metro areas to do their part. The rural areas of California simply don't have the numbers to overcome the liberals in the cities. Gun owning urban dwellers need to get involved in the process of voting. One overwhelming statement made by a number of you from the rural areas of California, and I'm paraphrasing, was: 'We vote early and often in the rural counties, but the cities hold the destiny of California.' Without help from the cities, gun ownership itself will be challenged in the legislature by 2010. I know that's a target set by anti-gun factions. They want this state gun-free, or nearly so, by 2010. They are certainly well on their way to achieving it. We must stop it in the voting booth.

Do something useful with your life. Register, then vote!

Register to vote on-line

Your comments are welcome: rweller@cris.com

Unrestricted distribution and republishing of this article authorized
providing credit is given to GunNewsDaily.com as the originating source.

[Russ]

Come on all you whiners that called the gun show attendee list a fake. There's another thread called "California Gun Owners Don't Vote" It includes the same article as above by Ralph Weller. What arguments do you have now?

It amazes me when people from the PRK on this board acknowledge voting for Bill Klintoon and Gray Davis. That's really sad seeing that both of them have been absolute disasters for gun owners.

Better to waste, and I mean waste, your vote on a Libertarian who has as much chance of being elected as the man in the moon. Time to get real out there in the PRK.

[Jim Diver]

They check ID before you vote. Why can't they mark you "present"?

In PRK they are not allowed to check ID before you vote.... vote fraud is a civil right here.