Pump action Carbine in 357 or 44 Mag?


January 2, 2005, 01:22 PM
Does anyone here know of any company that is making a 357 or 44 mag pump action carbine? Did Rossi once make a 357 pump action? If so do they still make them?

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January 2, 2005, 02:22 PM
Yes, they used to made a 44 magnum or .44 spl pump called the model 65 in 1989. But it isn't listed in their current catalog so I don't think it's produced any longer. Too bad, I'd like one too... :(

If I remember correctly they also had a .357 pump called the Timberwolf...

Rossi webpage (http://www.rossiusa.com/products/products-ammo.cfm)

January 2, 2005, 02:55 PM
IMI made one called the Timberwolf ... Kim du Toit did a piece on it here http://www.kimdutoit.com/dr/weblog.php?id=P3090

In that article there is referenced a rifle called "Lightning" (apparently a copy of the old Colt Lightning) made by American Western Arms http://www.awaguns.com/rifle.asp

And USFA makes some pump rifles (not sure what caliber) http://www.usfirearms.com/

January 2, 2005, 07:57 PM
Ah - it was IMI that made the Timberwolf! At least my memory was only paritally fouled... :rolleyes:

January 2, 2005, 09:23 PM
Action reliability was as good as a three dollar bill. Led to a quick demise.

January 2, 2005, 10:56 PM
Taurus is allegedly due to release its version of the Colt Lightning rifle, only theirs is called the "Thunderbolt" and allegedly due out in early 2005.

So far, chambered in .45 Long Colt for Cowboy Action shooters.


January 3, 2005, 12:42 AM
Mmm - now just get it in .44 mag and they'll have something...

Wait they're loading up the .45 LC now aren't they. Yummy! :D

January 3, 2005, 11:34 AM
That action may not be strong enough for those hot loads though...

January 3, 2005, 02:18 PM
I don't know about Taurus, but I have one of the late, much-lamented IMI Timberwolf carbines in .357. I wouldn't trade it for diamonds.

Contrary to RugerNo's opinion that the action is "about as reliable as a three dollar bill", mine has digested more than 5.8K rounds of both full-power .357 and .38 Spls without a single malf of any sort. Nothing has broken, and nothing shows more than minor wear.

The major reasons for its relatively short production life are:

1: Price. Compared to contemporary lever guns in the same calibers, it is a complex action. This made it more expensive to manufacture using the pre-CNC technology that was standard at the time. The MSRP was almost $100 more than a comparable Marlin, and import duties added enough to the cost to make it virtually impossible to even come close to the level of discounting a dealer could offer on the Marlin and still show a profit.

2: This one is kind of a toss-up between unfortunate timing and poor marketing. The design was initially conceived as a 'patrol' carbine for police use at a time when a .357 revolver of some sort was almost univerally seen in LEO's holsters. It hit our market just in time to coincide with the paradigm shift to self-loaders among LEAs as standard duty sidearms. In the absence of an aggressive 'Plan B' marketing campaign directed at the civilian market, the result was inevitable.

Even with the advances in modern metallurgy, I'm not sure if the old Colt LMR design currently being resurrected by Taurus and a couple of the Italian replica outfits for the CAS market is capable of handling the pressures generated by Magnum revolver cartridges without major modifications. It just isn't as inherently strong as the M92 action. I would expect that the factory manuals from all sources for CLMR replicas will include strongly worded warnings concerning the use of any factory or handloaded ammunition which exceeds SAAMI standard pressures, and I'd bet even money that they specify CASS-type low pressure loads exclusively.

IMI carbines in either caliber are both relatively hard to find and costly to acquire. For practical reasons I'd suggest that you find a nice Rossi M92 or Marlin M94. Both are strong, accurate, slick-handling little woodswalkers that offer the same wide range of possible applications for fun or 'practical' use.

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