Would this irritate you? [long]


March 3, 2003, 09:35 PM
Sorry if this gets a little long. My brother and I live about 100 miles apart, and visit several times a year. We were both raised VERY pro-gun. For as long as I remember, there was ALWAYS a gun of some sort at each entrance to the house, and one in each vehicle. I am an avid shooter, and my brother is an avid hunter, so I guess I let myself assume that we had the same set of ideas about firearms in general. Several weeks ago I mentioned that I needed to go to the range and sight in the 308 Mauser that I had been building. He suggested that I bring it to his club range and we could visit and shoot. I called ahead Saturday to see if his range was available. He checked the schedule and said there was a shoot until noon, but past that we should be good to go. I said great, I'll even bring the AK to plink with. When I got there about 11:30, he met me at the car, since he was working in the yard. He looked at the Mauser quite approvingly. I pulled out the SAR-1 and said, I brought this to play with as well. He immediately got very uncomfortable. I asked why, and was reminded that he was a CHL holder, and therefore did not want to be around ILLEGAL weapons. I reminded him that I was a CHL holder as well, and knew quite well that I had broken no laws. A quick trip to the computer room cured MOST ignorance of the law, but there was a disturbing amount of liberal mindedness left lingering, with questions that I found very disturbing coming from a relative of mine. Like, "Why would you need such a gun?" I answered that it was the beauty of our system, that I didn't have to have a need. I had it because I like to shoot it. After a few minutes, his wife walked in and said something like, "Before you guys go to the range, could you ......" His answer to her kind of shocked me. He said, "We won't be going to the range today, there may be some of the regulars there using it." After a few minutes of uncomfortable conversation, I said that I had decided to invest the extra 200 miles and spend my afternoon going to visit out Mom. For what it's worth, I showed my Mom the Mauser and she said that she thought it was a really nice deer rifle. So I went out on a limb and showed her the SAR-1. She is a very religious 82 year old woman that looked very carefully at the SAR-1 and said something like "This is one of those guns where you anounce that your here to kick a$$ and chew gum, and I'm all out of gum.
At any rate, I spent 3-4 hours with my mother and that salvaged most of the day, but I am still a little shocked and irritated with my brother. Am I way out of line.

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March 3, 2003, 09:45 PM
Where does he buy all of his guns? A gunshop that specializes in only the PC stuff?


March 3, 2003, 09:45 PM
He was assimilated, get him back!

Ed Brunner
March 3, 2003, 09:45 PM
I am still a little shocked and irritated with my brother. Am I way out of line.

No! Do you wonder why he changed? Would he discuss it with you? It might help both of you to sort it out.

March 3, 2003, 09:59 PM
Stories like this make me wonder if we’ll ever be able to hold on to, much less regain our lost 2A rights.

I would have said the key word in your tale was “hunter” but the fact that he has a CCW really has me puzzled. That DOESN’T fit the “typical” pattern of hunter vs. RKBA conscious gun-owner.

The fact that he immediately thought your SAR-1 was illegal tells me that he’s been indoctrinated on some level by the media. Canceling the range trip because someone there might see the AK (even though you proved that it was perfectly legal) tells me that some or all of the BS may be coming from the hunters/shotgunners at his club.

For your own sake I think you owe it to yourself (and him) to have a long heart-to-heart with your brother and find out what is going on.

March 3, 2003, 10:09 PM
i have a sister who will let her three sons play paint ball but wont let one come w/ me to pick up downed doves.
i wanted to get the 12 yearold a lyman kentucky rifle kit to build and she about lost her mind. then she turned around and got him the said paintball gun.
hard to belive we were shot out of the same womb sometimes.
i attribute her lack of insite and liberal mind"less"ness w/ a college education of which i am lacking. she attended USC and I USMC.
go figure.
our namesake"s" on the other hand while divorced some 30 years both carry firearms daily and own numerous unPC types of firearms. moms being the calico 100 and dads preference running heavily toward short BBL'ed and large bore street howizers of the pistol gripped nature.
whenever we, dear sister and i, get into any type of gun argument i state "DAMN MARTIANS, GO BACK TO YOUR PODS AND GIVE ME MY SISTER BACK".
try that next time your fancy pants brother gets a whiff of some black rifle magic.

March 3, 2003, 10:10 PM
After some thought...

It sounds like he was too embarassed to been seen associating with an SAR owner in front of his upitty skeet and trap buddies (no offense to you cool skeet trap guys, you know who you are ;) )

Perhaps after being proven wrong, it put him back on the offensive. Is he your older brother? :D

March 3, 2003, 10:33 PM
ehenz: Yes he is older by 8 years. I like skeet/trap as well. He just couldnt seem to get past the fact that it was NOT a hunting caliber. I knew i was in trouble when he asked what caliber it was and a responded 7.62X39 and he just said, Yeah, but what caliber is it. I think the real problem is that he could not find "Browning" stamped on it anywhere.
Airwolf: Long heart to heart planned.
Ed Brunner: He is willing to talk, but just goes back to the fact that it has no practical hunting useage.

At this time my plan of attack is simple. He said he hasnt been to a 'gun show" in years. DUH!!! I am going to offer to meet him at the next Mesquite Big Town show. That should open his eyes some.

March 3, 2003, 11:13 PM
I think there are a lot of hunters who see the antis coming after their hunting weapons so they throw the pistol and black rifle folk to the wolves to save themselves, and have to wrap themselves in the antis lies to justify their actions (some even begin to believe the lies).

What they don't realize is that the PETA people are doing their best to make hunting illegal. I wouldn't be surprised if they succeed before the antis succeed in a complete gun ban (in fact it will be the fact that hunting is no longer legal that the antis will use to claim there is no longer a legitimate reason for civilian arms possession).

Aside from the political issues, your brother sounds like he was being kind of a baby by canceling your range trip (unless you where unwilling to leave the SAR in the trunk).

March 3, 2003, 11:55 PM

For me guns are inextricably linked to RKBA, Constitutional, governmental and social issues. They are tools to be sure but they are also incredible, tangible icons of the freedom that this nation represents. They are the ultimate expression of the ability to choose your destiny. Every time that I handle a firearm I feel a sense of pride, respect and admiration for all those that came before me that have put their butts on the line to preserve this nation and its true values.

For those that see a gun as ONLY a tool that facilitates a hobby or pursuit of some sort there is not going to be a “resonance” that those of us have that are involved in the RKBA “movement”.

That people actually argue about the form a firearm takes is ludicrous in the extreme. That there is some sort of morality or “rightness” linked to whether it’s a wood stock bolt action or a polymer semi-auto with gee-whiz features.

All firearms expel a projectile through a barrel by means of burning chemicals. That’s it. The rest is fine tuning the details.

This whole “sporting purpose” bullcrap makes my head explode. The idea that a bolt action rifle shooting .30-06 is somehow “better” than an SKS firing 7.62x39 because it’s not a “military” gun is just insane. Does the hunter with the .30-06 somehow think that it can ONLY hunt deer, that it can’t be turned against another human?

The fact that ALL gun owners are threatened and so many of them are chauvinists in their attitudes (mine is better, I don’t NEED that “assault weapon” therefore you don’t either) is just sheer, unbounded lunacy.

Excuse me while I go pound my head against the wall.

March 4, 2003, 02:47 AM
she turned around and got him the said paintball gun.

Maybe time to mention how shooting another person, even with a non-lethal weapon, is more harmful than learning respect for a real firearm and possibly leads to a cavalier attitude when around a real gun, such as at a friend's house.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and thinking that a few trips hunting or shooting with his uncle and his paintball experience extrapolates to a real firearm seems like a recipe for an accident.

It usually seems to be the kids who have a vague familiarity with guns that pull stupid crap like dropping the mag, then pointing the gun and pulling the trigger. BANG! No mag disconnect on that gun. Friend Bobby's brains look like a Jackson Pollock on the wall.

March 4, 2003, 04:01 AM
I can never understand the mentality of the "hunter" or "skeetshooter" that frowns on any other type of firearm. Is this some kind of deviant range snobbery?

Firearms owners should understand that we're all in the same boat, a boat that's currently sailing through choppy seas. Don't let anti's or anti sentiments divide us. ESPECIALLY FAMILY.

Talk with your brother. In a brotherly manner. It may take time and patience, but it's worth it. The gun show sounds like a good idea. Good luck. :)

March 4, 2003, 08:47 AM
Yeah, I don't want to ruin anyone's fun ( it IS a free country after all) but I have always wondered about the paintball games where you pretend to kill other human beings .....

March 4, 2003, 10:03 AM
:p well i guess i'm bi.
i have guns that are set up for hunting and a couple that would be military or military-style.
those hunter only folks better not be using .30-06, 308, .223 they are all military calibers, and there fore .25-06, .243, 7mm-08 etc. are all made from military calibers....:scrutiny: we stand togather or we fall separatly.:banghead:

Baba Louie
March 4, 2003, 10:34 AM

Don't the 7.62 x 39 have about the same ballistics as my .30-30 "huntin" rifle?

Dont them there russkies use the 7.62 fer huntin?

Slap a 5-rd mag in there, ya put one-o-them funny lookin scopes on it and yer good to go, up to about 150 yds or so. Bambi look out.

I suppose if'n ya practiced a mite ya oughta be able to bust a clay pigeon or two (Course ya wanta make real sure that there's nuthin in the vicinity of the bullet on its downward leg of the journey).

Maybe its just cause JMB didn't invent the darned thing? But he DID come up with that BAR thing and several other implements of death, mayhem and destruction utilized by our nations armed forces.

Just because it doesn't have little birds and dogs engraved on the metal and a polyurethane coated high gloss, circassian, no, ciriucassion, dang it... fancy walnut stocks, with checkering out the wazoo and a schnabel fore-end... its still a lot of fun.

He just doesn't know and probably doesn't care how much fun he's missing while he's busy being politically correct looking down his nose at his wild-eyed commie-gun loving little brother.

"Gee Wally, I thought a gun was a gun was a gun."

"I don't think so Beave. Some guns are guns. Others are just... wrong. Don't let Dad catch ya shootin that thing."

I love COHIBA's "Damn Martians" quote.


March 4, 2003, 10:36 AM
I tell folks "It's 'bout like a .30-30, only it self loads."

Take him shooting.

March 4, 2003, 11:09 AM
Hold on a second . Did some one come out with a bolt action rifle that shots the 7.62 for hunting!!:confused:I think it was CZ.

Yes i was right.

NEW CZ 527 Carbine in 7.62 x 39 cal. now available!

The CZ 527 Carbine is an intermediate range Brush gun, chambered in .223 Remington and 7.62 x 39" . This handy little rifle has a 5 round detachable magazine, open sights, a straight comb Turkish walnut stock, hammer forged barrel, single set trigger and weights in at less than 6 pounds.

http://www.cz-usa.com/_d/pri/33.jpg http://www.cz-usa.com/_p/pdt.php?id=33

March 4, 2003, 11:36 AM
I own 2 AK style semi autos but the reactions I get to them
are completely different.

The first one is a pre ban norinco AK Hunter it has a dark brown
checkered stock, 26in barrel, no pistol grip, nice blued finish
and a large rubber recoil pad.

The second is a SAR 1 with rough phosphate finish, light
ugly wood and the 16.5 inch barrel and a pistol grip.

I have taken both to different ranges on a number of occasions
with 5 and 10 round mags.

With the SAR1 some shooters smirk, the young guys
"oooh ahhh" and others ask me if I'm sure that its "legal"

When I bring the AK hunter no one even bats an eye.
except to maybe ask what kind of european hunting rifle it is.

They are for most practical purposes the SAME GUN.

I guess its like one lady dressing in a tube top and mini skirt and the other in a conservative business suit.

People will form their opinions based on an initial gut reaction.

March 4, 2003, 11:43 AM
1. Your mom sounds very cool.


March 4, 2003, 12:32 PM
seem the once inexpensive SKS rifles that were EVERYWHERE a few years ago have replaced just about everything else in the "inexpensive hunting rifle" catagory in a lot of places. You are apprently more likely to see a SKS nowadays in the field than a win 94. 30-30. the 762x39 is so close balisticly to the 30-30 as to make almost no difference in effect out to the most effective rangers of both guns (100-150 yards). the 762x39 has thew added advantage of using spitzer bullets in its magazine and cheap practice ammo. You can even use it in PA (in areas where rifles are legal) by removing the Op rod amd making it a manully operated rifle instead of semi-auto and adding a 5 shot magazine.

March 4, 2003, 12:37 PM
No, but there would be a discussion.... :rolleyes:

March 4, 2003, 02:18 PM
Just take him out with it, and a case of ammo....

He'll come around like everyone else who shoots them will.

Ignorance is no excuse... you must show him the light...


March 4, 2003, 02:26 PM
Talk to him and see what he thinks. Otherwise, let it go.

I assume an SAR-1 is somehow scary looking in some way? Is it bigger than a .30-06 BAR or harder hitting than a 12 gauge magnum? Just curious.


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