[sm]

Folks , I am not a moderator.

I have to post this and yes I know it is probably in the wrong forum - I did so on purpose - so folks would read it. :)

Now I have made MANY mistakes on THR and TFL , I have apologized and I do so again now. There is not enough bandwith on both forums to list all my mistakes.

I was new and goofed, I have more experience now - and still make them.

What is going on ?

I have been doing some research here on THR . I have been working with some folks via PM and email. I have been reading some threads ...

I have PM-d mods many a time on "report this thread to a mod" . Folks - one of the things Rich / TFL taught us was to Police Ourselves. That is one of the reasons TFL was so Unique.

We brought this to THR and we have to remember we have folks that are from all over the World. Some places do NOT have the freedoms the US does.

We have those that are FLAT against Gun Owners and RKBA. We have many Folks that seek knowledge, THR is found by a search engine such as Google or Teoma. Many of these folks may never register , some may be fence sitters, we NEED to keep the HighRoad.

Attraction not Promotion gets a lot folks to change their thinking about responsible firearm ownerships.

http://www.thehighroad.org/code-of-conduct.html

Just wanted to Remind MYSELF first - then us all.

Steve

[Snowdog]

......the chair is behind the door......

......John has a long mustache......


Oh yes, I agree with you as well. Our conduct here and on other popular boards reflects our image as a group.
So far, I'm sure THRers and TFLers have only served to enhance our civilized image.

[jamz]

Did I miss something?

-James
(clueless, as usual)

[TheFederalistWeasel]

So far, I'm sure THRers and TFLers have only served to enhance our civilized image.

Oh yeah…

I recall on a very heated thread I posted some years back on TFL about Glocks, one particular gent became so mad he posted that he was going to "show me what is Glock could do", Rich quickly deleted that one as he and I took it as an overt threat not an invitation to go to the range based on the other mindless dribble this fool was also posting.

And now we have a thread going which a lot of regular posters here are advocating escalation of a encounter with a loss prevention officer for a store into a potential arrest situation simply because they do not want to be bothered with the simple act of showing a store employee a receipt.

Many here are constantly advocate planning and preparing for armed resistance for an inevitable encounter with (among other things) the government. That won’t look good when the liberals dig it up and turn us all into a bunch of Branch Davidian types…

You have folks here who constantly bash LEO’s at every turn of the corner simply because they have a set-in-stone notion that very soon all cops will be kicking in their door taking away their guns…

For someone just passing thru, on the outside looking in, it would appear that most here at a bit off their rocker, adding fuel to the “are these the people who own all the guns in the USA”?




:banghead:

[orangeninja]

I agree with TFW...recently read a thread that got into the race thing. :rolleyes:

Bonus

[CannibalCrowley]

And now we have a thread going which a lot of regular posters here are advocating escalation of a encounter with a loss prevention officer for a store into a potential arrest situation simply because they do not want to be bothered with the simple act of showing a store employee a receipt.Wow, I'm constantly amazed how people try to spin things to fit their narrow view. Nobody was "advocating escalation of a encounter". They were simple saying that they would not agree to a voluntary search. What's so wrong about that?

As for thread quality, nothing has yet trumped the short "nuke em all" period. Although it's still readily apparent that certain posters still harbor those feelings.

[Nick1911]

Did I miss something?

-James
(clueless, as usual)

You and me both...

-Nick

[USP45usp]

I think it's about the cop "bashing" that goes on in Roundtable. I used the " " because it's been going both ways with the cops doing civilian "bashing".

I agree that we need to cool down abit with the bashing and also the subdued personal attacks (of which I am shamefully guilty of). But it's both sides that need to calm down with the remarks, not just one side or the other.

Wayne

[TheFederalistWeasel]

You need to re-read that post CannibalCrowley, there are numerous posts yours included which, if they came to pass would escalate the situation into a potential conflict.

I’m sorry you cannot see that…

A lot of folks on that thread are worried about the “Stupid Door Drones” and “Idiotic Security”, if you know they are stupid and idiotic then why, willingly, by your own admission would you place yourself into a situation where you will be automatically outnumbered by these “Stupid Door Drones” and “Idiotic Security”, once half the store shows up to assist because you are “creating a scene” and you will automatically be assumed the bad guy and place considerable doubt into the minds of any arriving LEO, once he has 2, 4, 5, 10, 20? Employees plus a video with no sound showing YOU escalating the situation after the LPO has made contact with you, all because you didn’t steal anything you let your ego/libertarian you can’t touch me cause I didn’t do anything views cloud your judgment.

For the record, I think everyone I have ever locked up at one point told me they didn’t do whatever it was they were being accused of or I caught them doing.

Some even resisted, many were pepper sprayed; three went to the ER with broken bones (legs mostly due to an encounter with my ASP) some were tazed by other officers but they all had one thing in common they all went to jail, charged with whatever the initial complaint was plus obstruction, the three which required hospital treatment were charged and convicted under FELONY obstruction PLUS they had to repay the city for the medical treatment.

The last case I disposed was in November of 2004, person was sentenced to 5 years, to serve 1 with 4 on intensive probation, $5,000 fine plus court cost, probation fees, plus city medical reimbursement.

He only had minor traffic violations on his record, prior to this incident and I believe one loitering conviction, all misdemeanors.

Because he decided he wanted to resist on a traffic stop, (he ran a red light) he not only went to prison but he was seriously hurt in the process. I thank God for in car cameras, the judge watched it once, the jury saw it twice at the request of the judge, and they convicted him in less than 30 minutes.

He was an idiot…

What makes your story any different form the last 5,000 times the cop has heard that line?

See where I’m going with this?

Acting the fool, for no reason, will get you jailed if nothing more than DOC or Disturbing the Peace.

[joab]

I disagree with TFW

For every ignorant comment made there are 10 inteligent level headed comments to refute it.

If that does not hold true for a certain thread it is closed with an explanation of why (usually)

We may be gun owners but we are also people, with differing views, ideals, and opinions

[R.H. Lee]

In all fairness, Federalist Weasel, a Door Drone (tm) is very different from a LEO. I (and most of us here) would comply with verbal commands from a LEO, where we might not from anyone else.

[Jim K]

Unfortunately, there are store employees who believe their mission in life is to harass customers. Equally unfortunately, there are honest customers who resent any attempt to question any of their actions.

The best way those customers can avoid trouble with those employees is to not patronize that store. It is so simple. Why give your money to people if they do not treat you courteously?

I was given the "treatment" at a large warehouse "club", although I was not searched. I have never gone back, and have never missed the place. They had nothing I could not buy elsewhere, and the few bucks I saved were not worth the necessity of having to buy more than I needed, not to mention the hassle involved.

Jim

[Firethorn]

Hmm....

1. Everybody makes mistakes or has a bad day.
2. Everybody sees something a little bit differently.
3. Yes, some people are jerks, or worse.
4. Sometimes discussions get out of line.

From what I've seen, we manage to keep a civil forum with nothing more than gentle rebukes and the very occasional closure of a thread. That's a very good record.

[Tierhog]

I work in a prison. I deal with rapists, murderers, drug dealers and sex offenders everyday, I have found that with out fail courtesy works. A simple "excuse me" or a "Thank you" works wonders. You can be insistant, even demanding without being a jacka**. When I encounter an inmate with a bad attitude I lower my voice and speak calmly and courtiously to him until he complies or escalates to where I have to change tactics. More often than not it works, and when it doesn't the inmate has already decided he was going to go for it before I even arrived. Nobody responds well to a bad attitude and rude behavior. Why make things worse when you do not have to. Thats one of the reasons I like "The High Road", it has so many people having so many different points of view and everybody gets a chance to have their say.

I hope it stays that way.

[Bob F.]

Good post SM. I'm with TFW (et als). I'm often surprised at some of the responses when "innocents" are stopped or asked for ID by LEO's or even door drones. Why look for trouble?

Additionally, keep the "lurkers" and Anti's in mind: it doesn't tkae a lot to look REAL FREAKIN' BAD!! Think of the stories where the local VFD screwed up (They're Volunteers and often darned good!); the bad rep stays for years. Same with lots of other things and gunowners are certainly not exempt!!

Having said that, we're usually pretty good here. I like this forum!

Stay safe.
Bob

[CAS700850]

I've been here as a member for several months now, and have concluded that this is a forum I enjoy, and that I don't mind being a "Member" of. with that said, I have seen some posts that make me wonder about things, but I have met some good and interesting people through this site. I have gotten some good advice, and hopefully given the same to others. Yes, some people offer bad posts. Some slam LEO's, civilians, military, lawyers (GASP!). But, at the same time, I've gotten PM'd by people who offer support to me as a prosecuting attorney, and even some who offer appreciation for teh fact that I do my job based upon the facts and the law, and not the politically correct or generally accepted positions. That, my friends, is why I keep coming back, and will continue do so.

[Intune]

The shepherd always knows how to direct the sheep. It’s the wolves that scare him. And rightfully so.

I am courteous but I don’t bow.

[grampster]

You catch more bees with honey than with vinegar.

In 61 years I have never been confronted by a retail person, leo, guard, security person et al. I've also worked in law enforcement and in the private sector that depended on very good customer service in order to make a living. Most confrontations that I have had in those regards began with someone having a bad attitude about something that carried over into my spectrum. I learned that returning calmness when confrontation is presented usually stops the problem.

As regards to THR, I think just about anybody that is a denizen here is able to have a discussion about something that is emotionally charged without crossing the line. (knowing as he says that, that he has violated his own principle on a few occasions. I believe that is the pot calling the kettle black)

We just need a reminder once in awhile to think twice, post once.

[Smokey Joe]

I like Grampster's "Think twice, post once" dictum. I have hurriedly edited a few of my own posts because of not doing that. Civility, gentlemen, is where it's at.

I was once told, never put anything on the Internet that you wouldn't want to see on the front page of your own howmetown newspaper. If that works, fine.

The oft-repeated advice to "never annoy Art (Eatman)'s Gramma" is also good.

My own THR (and Internet) self-check is this: "Always keep your words soft and sweet. That way it doesn't hurt if you have to eat them." :)

[jojo]

I wish I could fuigure out how to do a "Quote"

I like that Smokey Joe, "Always keep your words soft and sweet. That way it doesn't hurt if you have to eat them."
Not that I have always done it, but I do try.

jojo

[Mike Hull]

jojo,- I wish I could fuigure out how to do a "Quote"



This is the first VBulletin forum I've seen that didn't have the simple "Quote" button enabled on every post.
It's there, but the admins have to enable that feature. :uhoh:

jojo, you have a "PM".

[LawDog]

We took out the 'Mass Quote' option because of the irritating tendency for people to quote an entire post, only to add 'Me, too', or somesuch at the bottom.

vB codes and explanations are found here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/misc.php?do=bbcode

LawDog

[Henry Bowman]

"jojo, you have a "PM"."

Could somebody PM me also? I have gone to the tech forum here and still can't figure out how to do the fancy blue box quote since the button was disabled. :confused:

BTW, the old quote button (on the old forum software worked just fine).

[Mike Hull]

Could somebody PM me also? I have gone to the tech forum here and still can't figure out how to do the fancy blue box quote since the button was disabled.


Soitenly!! :D

[jojo]

Thank you Mike I appreciate that.


I can understand that LawDog, I get irritated when I see that too.

jojo

[Smokey Joe]

Sometimes I, too, don't manage those, and have to eat them. They taste bitter, or sour, and the points of the capital A's really hurt my gums.

[rock jock]

TFW makes some very good points. The libertarian streak on THR is strong, to the point that some members are advocating instant resistance and a confrontational attitude towards anybody that is in any position of authority, governmental or otherwise. Standing up for your rights is a uniquely American trait, one which I would hope we would all continue, but please do it with maturity and character for the sake of all gun owners but mostly for your own reputation.

[Moondoggie]

I just reread the entire thread regarding store security personnel's authority.

The only folks who talked about using physical force were presumed LEO's. TFW mentioned that he and his bretheren would "beat the brakes off you" and Sean described how he used the color of authority to badge his way out of using escalating force against an obnoxious store employee. In Sean's case I'm sure a simple flash of the badge and a stern warning at the onset of the incident to the store employee that he might just be barking up the wrong tree would have sufficed. One purported store LP person seemed to relish the opportunity of physically subduing folks with impunity.

The remainder of us voiced varying opinions of displeasure regarding our real or potential treatment by retailers' policies and personnel. Most of us seem to be independent minded folks who strongly resent being hassled without good reason. No one advocated refusing to cooperate with actual LEO. The most common course of action espoused was "just keep walking and ignore them". The manner in which store personnel interacted with the customer seems to be a major determining factor in the attitude adopted by our members. Polite little old ladies seem to elicit a greater willingness to cooperate.

Are we supposed to present ourselves as something other than what we really are for the sake of appearances?? Is that The High Road? I apologize if I'm not a "senior enough" member to ask these questions.

That's my .02 cents.

[Sean85746]

:banghead: :fire: :cuss:

Mods...Other than simply never soming back, how does one remove oneself from the forum?

[P95Carry]

Sean ... ''removal''??? If really needed, you can have your name removed from member's list.

If there is something bothering you feel free to PM me or other mods.

[Brian Dale]

Moondoggie, you wrote,I apologize if I'm not a "senior enough" member to ask these questions.I'm a little puzzled that someone would feel the need to include that; I hope it's simply out of politeness.

I'll answer with my own take on it; someone will correct me if I'm wrong. I have plenty of posts; that conveys no more authority than the first post of a new member, as far as I'm aware.

No. You're not out of line at all with such questions. I have never felt a need, nor any pressure, to present myself as other than I really am here at THR. That is its primary attraction for me. My feeling about THR results in large part from the courtesy that virtually everyone exhibits here, the wealth of knowledge that's shared and the willingness of almost everyone to acknowledge their own mistakes and to learn from those who know more.

And I've been more impressed than I can adequately express by the willingness of the most experienced, the curmudgeons (I mean that in the kindest way) and the Mods to say, "yup; I was wrong, and I've got egg on my face. Sorry, everybody" -- and that they only say that when they are wrong.

So what is "taking the High Road?" You've demonstrated by what you write that you do know what it is.


But we still get to do this: :neener:


sm: Thanks. Just Thanks. Again.

[Moondoggie]

Bob;

My purpose for mentioning a factor of "seniority" on the forum was in case I've missed something in the big picture regarding the premise of the thread, which seemed to be maintaining the positive image of the forum in particular and gun owners/enthusiasts in general.

[spacemanspiff]

i think i missed something too. the last time i recall THR having to call in the fire department was over the whole 'no-knock warrants' and the superintense leo-bashing that came with it.

i havent noticed a lot of inflammatory stuff recently, even in the department store security thread.

:confused:

[Brian Dale]

That's just 'cause you're a tough ol' sourdough, spiff. :evil:

Wait a minute -- I haven't noticed anything specific, either. But thanks to sm for the gentle reminder: our words are open to all and those words matter. "Attraction rather than repulsion" ain't exactly what you wrote, sm, but I think that it's useful for me to repeat that phrase to myself.

Not ignoring your response, Moondoggie; I just don't have anything to add or to disagree with in what you wrote.

[B36]

The tone of a site is set by the administration. Admin drives the moderators. Moderators police site.

Self policing does not work, and never has. As long as the poster does not have to face the person he attacks IN PERSON, there is no fear factor. The ability to remain anonymous on this medium allows all sorts of activity that would not otherwise be acceptable in our society.

The strength and character of the site owner/administrator will govern the conduct of the site.

Members can help.

[rlq9thrk]

InTune wrote:

"The shepherd always knows how to direct the sheep. It’s the wolves that scare him. And rightfully so."

Perhaps the shepherd is scared that the wolf will eat the sheep before the shepherd himself can do so. Wonder what scares the sheep?

[dev_null]

I know I'll get flamed for this, but what the hey...

If we're going to consider how we come across to others (and isn't that part of communication?), then I suggest that we also take a moment to consider spelling and grammar. I know, I know -- this ain't Miss Pomfleroy's Finishing School, and for some of us English is our second language (including me, I might point out), but it only takes a minute to go back and correct obvious errors so as not to perpetuate the image of gunowners as ignorant, double-digit IQ, gully-dwelling goobers who post things like "I kno thet my Rugar is just is good is a glokc, but..."

I'm not suggesting we all need to obsess over whether a simple forum post is ready for publication in Scientific American, just pointing out that it doesn't take much to look over and correct the more egregious misteaks. ( :D )

OK, donning asbestos skivvies...

- 0 -

[Brian Dale]

Don't worry too much, dev_null; it isn't wrong to glance at posts for typos, or to edit them as we see them. No flames here. And aren't those skivvies kinda scratchy? :)

[USP45usp]

I think, in a way, all of our questions have been answered.

When it comes to the feds and LEO's on the board, we are, and always be, the bad guys until we prove ourselves innocent, with much money inbetween. With the others, we are guilty, until we prove ourselves innocent.

It's a shame really, I am starting to like TFW and others. They are following their rules of the job, which do go against the Constitution but will follow them anyway. They follow man's law, not the law's given in the constitution. I can't blame them really, they just want to go home.

Lets just let this die. The LEO's and the Fed's in the forum and in the US look at us as BG's, we must prove that we are not by bowing down to any of their commands. The more passive we are, the better they feel.

I always bring it up but they will never answer, I just wanted to come home also when I was in the middle east. I could have violated peoples rights (that don't even have the rights that we have here in the US) but I didn't. Sure, each time that I had to interact with a national I was afraid (they don't have the gun laws that we have) but I treated them with respect and with honor.

It's a different country over here. You are treated like a BG or scum until you satisfy the LEO or authority.

I lived in GA for over 3 years, I was stationed 50% at Moody AFB, the other 50% in other countries. I know about the Valdosta area, they gave our black personal a hard time (traveling while black?). My under Airman came in on Mondays complaining that they got a ticket on I-75. This is the same city that the cops shot out the tires on cars on the same highway with shotguns.

I think, due my growing up in the GA and Fla area, TFW is either in Tift or Tifton county. Cook county makes a good standing also. I don't think that he's in atlanta but inbetween Valdosta and Macon. Crisp county perhaps?

I was a child at Warner Robins (close to Macon) and then my father retired to Fla, Live Oak (McAlpin). I was stationed at Moody (Valdosta) but as a child we drove up to Macon) many of times. Yes TFW, you are in my home territory and I wish that we will meet up... just to try to figure you out. I know that us Southern Boys can be harsh, but damn man.

(I think that I gave enough insight to show, I've been and lived in your area).

Wayne

[spacemanspiff]

let this die?? LET THIS DIE??? LET THIS DIE????

we wouldnt be us if we didnt beat a dead horse at least once a week. psssshawww!

[sm]

Self policing does not work, and never has.

I beg to differ, respectfully of course. :)

Personally I have seen many a member remind another of the Rules of Conduct, a post edited, a person apologize , and members " shake hands" - even if they still disagreed. They did agree to disagree.

I have edited my own posts, and have rec'd a number of PMs or email as to why I did so...these from members, NOT Oleg, Staff, or Mods.

The other day I rec'd a PM from a Mod, whom made a "polite suggestion" about one of my posts. I edited my post, Mod PM-ed me again, he was happy he had chosen to PM me with suggestion instead of doing so in the thread.

I told him - as I have any THR Staff, AND members to PM me if I need to be .

This Forum is NOT about me. This Forum serves as a medium of ideas for folks all over the world, for or against what THR members "joined for".