Empirical, Theoretical or....Theatrical


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mister2
January 4, 2005, 06:40 AM
See, ]"1911 45ACP Headspace Gauge" [/U] . The orginal thread's closed, but this should be a sidebar, anyway.

Dave Sample submits he can do a chamber check (y'all notice he didn't say "headspace check") with an empty shell. He also proves to all and sundry he does own a much-disdained headspace guage. Empirically, he claims he's never had a failure.

1911 Tuner, on the other hand, correctly points out that headspace is more than a chamber check. Always has been, always will be. Theoretically, guns with the wrong headspace go KABOOM. His point is simple, though the measurements are complex.

In a very fitting way, Dave decided to stage his presentation using Shakespeare and what a drama it has been. Wit, sarcasm, name-calling, it's all there. Although the thread title mentions the words "headspace guage", Dave himself does not perform the check, and that was his whole point. Then, there is a multitude that jumped in and tried to get him there, but he insists (or seems to) that a chamber check is all one "needs", unless one is a "coward". Others jumped in, and said "leave him alone". In the end, Dave walks away and threatens to keep his little tweak secrets to himself. Promise?

The more the protagonists presented their case, the clearer it seemed they were talking about two different things and actually emphasized, in a roundabout way, each other's points. Bill (Shakespeare) would have loved the irony, and might have had the chorus mantra: the real ado about nothing is your little puny pistol cartridge. All you Globe habitues can add yer own smart@ss comments here.

Theatrical: Step right up to rifles and see real fireworks - bloated receivers! splintered bolts! blood! guts!

Gentle readers, the above-referenced thread cannot be explained any clearer than it already has. And no one's budging. The question remains: does going all the way and doing the headspace check in a 1911 comprise cowardice? Read and enjoy it. But more than that, think about it.

And walk away, wiser.

Thank you for your time,
MR2

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1911Tuner
January 4, 2005, 08:22 AM
Howdy Mister2,

This dang mule just ain't gonna die... :D

To see where the tough horse first drew breath, go to this thread and see figure #9, and read posts 10-16, where the question of headspace comes up...and the response was that: "It's as good as it gets." ...based on the
loaded round in the chamber method.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=113364

While it's entirely possible that a given pistol with that chamber to hood interface could well have ideal headspace...that check alone...no matter
how "perfect" does not indicate ideal headspace. The chamber shoulder to hood depth doesn't have anything at all to do with it. It only shows that the chamber depth from hood to shoulder is in-spec.

So you see...Mr. Sample did insist that it was an indication of ideal headspace...which it most asuredly is not. I have that very barrel
in my possession...untouched...and so far, it has taken a .920 gauge in every slide that I've tried it in with room to spare. The tightest one still allows a .004 feeler gauge to slip between the breechface and hood. Dangerous
and unserviceable.

Bill Z
January 4, 2005, 08:45 AM
Hey, since this is a sidebar that Tuner must be in approval of, and since there was an interest in horse smilies' in the last one, and since P95 re-opened the last one long enough to one up mine, I'll meet your neat smilie and raise you another appropriate horse smilie. :D :neener:

http://winace.andkon.com/pics/dead_horse.jpg


http://winace.andkon.com/pics/high_horse.jpg

;)

1911Tuner
January 4, 2005, 09:00 AM
Pretty good Bill...but Dave was dead wrong, and all the rants and pictures and Shakesperean quotes and condescending remarks and name-calling and clever insults ain't gonna make him right.

Moreover...If something posted on this forum can cause somebody to get hurt, I can't let it stand and I won't let it stand without correcting it.

Keep in mind the wise advice of having a gunsmith verify that an old or surplus rifle is safe to fire...by checking the headspace. That check is done with standard gauges, and the bolt is part of the check. The smith doesn't remove the bolt...drop a round or even a gauge into the chamber...eyeball it and say: "Yep. Looks pretty good to me! Go shoot it!"

It ain't gonna happen, Bill...not by anyone who knows their business.

P.S.

This one's closed too.

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