Strange Fail to Feed


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Ringer
January 5, 2005, 08:41 PM
I have a Para LDA 3.5" barrel that I have had nothing but problems with. Have posted on it before but here is the latest. I thought I was out of the woods with this gun. Had gotten almost 400 round through without a malfunction after the last trip for repair. Well yesterday after about 75 rounds or so I get a failure. It's not the first or last from the mag, somewhere from the middle. I have never seen this but the cartidge ended up sticking straight up at a 90 degree angle to the slide/barrel with the bullet facing up. Is this a common mishap and what might cause it? It's like the bullet rode up the feed ramp and straight up instead of into the chamber.

Thanks for any insight.

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cottontoptexan
January 5, 2005, 08:58 PM
Ringer, You might run this by one of the members who goes by 1911Tuner. He is well experienced with the 45 and these kind of problems. Maybe he can help okay.

1911Tuner
January 5, 2005, 09:31 PM
Howdy Ringer,

That's known as a Bolt-over-Base feed, and it's usually due to a weak magazine spring...and usually on the last round. When it happens in the middle, most of the time it's caused by a short-cycle...the slide isn't makin' it all the way to the frame in recoil. Think of it as a stovepipe fail to eject
in reverse. The breechface catches the round in the extractor groove instead of at the rear. Butt goes down....Nose goes up. It's fairly common
with the chopped variants...especially those shorter than Commander length.
When it happens on the last round, a Wolff extra-power mag spring usually cures it.

The most common cause of short-cycle malfunctions is an oversprung slide,
along with a less than firm grip...though if the spring is right for the gun and the load, it should function with the loosest grip that you can manage without the gun flyin' out of your hand.

Other things can also play a role in short-cycles...Slide to frame fit too tight...
Ammo too light for the spring...anything that interferes with free movement of the slide. If you're getting these with 185-grain +p ammo, try some 230 Hydra-Shoks and see how it does.

Standin' by...

Ringer
January 5, 2005, 09:46 PM
Thanks for the info Tuner.

Helps to at least understand what might be going on. The last time this gun was back at Para they fitted it with a completely different slide. Not that it would necessarily matter in this case but the new slide has the new Power Extractor. Also I did notice that with the recoil system in this slide, which is quite different than the original, there seems to be a higher tension from the recoil spring. I'm pretty much done fooling with this gun, it has been back 4 times for various problems. Either they replace it or I'm done with Para for good and it goes for sale at a low price with a disclaimer. Maybe someone who works on these things can make it run.

Thanks for the quick response! Oh yeah, forgot to mention I was shooting S&B 230 gr FMJ.

FunGunner
January 5, 2005, 09:52 PM
My guess is the slide is not catching the next round behind the rim, but just a little past the rim of the casing. Then as it hits the feed ramp the round is being pushed on a different axis and stuck between the slide, the rounds pushing from below and the feed ramp the round has nowhere to go but up. Having a short super fast moving slide doesn’t help the mags that are trying to keep up with it. The first thing I would try is cleaning your mags. Strip them down and give the body and spring a good cleaning and see if that gives them a little more power. Next would be new mag springs, yours might be going south on you. Wolff makes some good ones for not too much, and has some extra power ones that I would recommend.

Others will probably correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

(edit) Oh well I tried.

1911Tuner
January 5, 2005, 09:54 PM
Hey Ringer,

There's your problem. Just a guess...but were you havin' failures to return to battery the last time they had it? If you did...I'm gonna bet that they upped the spring load to force it to battery. I see a lot of that approach...and it's the wrong approach in most cases.

If I remember correctly...your gun has the fully ramped barrel...Right?

If the system has a dual spring...clip a full coil off the inner spring and try it.
If it's a single spring system...clip a half-coil off the spring and get a good grip on the gun. Cut the front of the spring...the open end.

For what it's worth...Sellier & Bellot could stand to be a little warmer. Hydra-Shok 230s could be what it wants to run with.

Bottom line is that the too-short guns can be a pain sometimes.

mete
January 5, 2005, 10:00 PM
I was just going to ask about the too-short guns , you repeated the answer I've heard from other knowledgable people.

Ringer
January 5, 2005, 10:17 PM
FunGunner

I was originally using aftermarket (Wilson and McCormick) mags. I switched back to the factory mags when I started having problems. On the second or third trip back Para replaced both mags so I wouldn't think the springs would be worn out, but maybe their mags/springs aren't that great. I've been trying to keep things stock on the gun so there is no room to pass blame. Appreciate the feedback.

Tuner

Correct the barrel has the integral ramp. And yes the last time back was for failure to feed, where the cartidge would end up at an angle along the feed ramp. I'm a little hesitant to start working on it myself but I may have to resort to that.

Going to contact Para and see what they say. The frustrating part is getting almost 400 rounds and then 1 malfunction. Not really enough to deem the gun broken but I sure won't trust my life to it.

saltydog452
January 5, 2005, 11:10 PM
Ringer,

Been there myself. My source of frustration was a Colt Officers Model. The little blaster had been back to Colt and replaced. Then the replacement wasn't any better than the original. It went back and forth to other 'smiths and still wans't anywhere near any definition of 'reliable'.

1911Tuner did a little guitar pickin' carolina tarheal mojo jitsu on the little blaster and it now works just dandy.

If you are intestered in my little saga with the 'Officers Model From Hell' see my original request for info/help in this forum under the thread 'premature slide un-locking'.

If nothing else, its an intestering read about someone else's frustration other than your own.

salty.

gamachinist
January 6, 2005, 12:45 AM
After reading all the posts about problems with 45's,I guess I must be really blessed,since I have only had two problems in over 25 years of shooting them.

I had an Auto Ord that had some problems that I tinkered with,mostly accuracy related,and I had a Star PD that wouldn't always fire a certain handload (Speer 200grain hollow point with the BIG hole in the end :D ).Those would fire in all the other guns I had at the time,even the ones that wouldn't fire in the PD would fire in the Gov't Models I had then (I checked to see if they were duds since I loaded them).

Otherwise,they have worked fine with USGI surplus ball (the real stuff),some various other store boughten ammo and my handloads with jacketed bullets and my own cast bullets,even wadcutters with reduced loads and no spring changes.

I just fired the Commander LW I bought earlier this year,and my Officers ACP with no problems,and the PD I formerly owned always worked as far as feeding and extraction and ejection.

To date,I have owned a total of 18,with only two problems,so I really am just lucky I guess!

Regards,Robert.

Bladeandbarrel
January 6, 2005, 03:02 AM
try new 6rd Novak or Colt mags.
Para mags are junque.

Tinkerer
January 6, 2005, 01:39 PM
Had a similar problem with my Para P-10. This pistol uses the dual recoil spring. First I purchased a replacement recoil spring assembly from Brownells just in case I really screwed up. Then, I clipped a coil from the large spring. Been working ever since.

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