[rdbrowning]

Last week I had a discussion with a MI holder of a CPL. He stated that you are required to give a verbal warning that you are armed before firing? I have not been able to prove this, but as rediculus as this sounds I am afraid that it may be true. Can any of you MI CPL holders or lawyers give me some help that will either set him straight or keep me out of jail?

Thanks

[tc300mag1]

All i rember was in ccw class they say to give a verbal warning becuse if there are witnesses they will have heard it .. As in " Stop i have a gun i will shoot" lame example but thats one of the ones they gave us in ccw class ...

They told us to say/shout that so if the person you shoot surives and says to cops he didnt say a word just started shooting hopefully witnesses can say ya you warned um ..

[The Rabbi]

"Stop, go away, I have a gun, I will shoot," is standard teaching doctrine in the NRA self defense in the home course. But that assumes you are barricaded in your safe room at home behind a closed/locked/armored door.

Maybe in MI that is mandated. If it is I would recommend "I have a g--BANG!!"

[beerslurpy]

No, the 3 rules are generally all that apply:
-the person must have the ability to inflict severe harm or death upon you
-the person must appear to have the intent to inflict severe harm or death upon you
-there must be no way for you to retreat/avoid the situation (except in your home, business, fenced in area of property)

Disclaimer:
In many states, you may intervene when a 3rd party is threatened in that manner- putting yourself in their shoes to gauge your course of action. In some states you may use lethal force against many felonies that might not necessarily involve an unavoidable threat to your life, such as commonlaw burglary. In some other states, you must retreat from your home. In some other states, great bodily harm is not sufficient- it must be immediate threat of loss of life with no path of retreat. In some countries, you cant even defend your life.

If the confrontation hadnt reached a point justifying self defense before you drew your gun, you are in the wrong for brandishing to escalate the situation. Thus it would clearly be a crime of some sort depending on the reasoning and mood of the DA or cops who show up.

If the confrontation has reached that point, you are justified in using self defense and thus justified in shooting, regardless of whether you warn that the device in your hand is a loaded gun that you intend to use.

[SteveS]

I have never heard of any doctrine, legal or otherwise, that states you have to give a warning. I can see where it would be beneficial, in terms of making a case for self-defense, but I can also see where it would be stupid...such as allowing the person to get closer because you are blurting out some warning.

[El Rojo]

In the PRK there is no mandate that you must warn someone. Think about it. There has to be a life threatening situation that you feel the need to stop before you can even draw your pistol. So even to be able to pull your gun, you are already at a legal stage where you can legally shoot the person. You don't have to warn them. Any half way decent lawyer that you hire is going to be able to point to there being no law that states you have to warn someone. Sure the relatives that sue you are going to have their lawyer try to make an issue of it. So it is going to come down to a jury of your peers. If the situation is one where you feel a warning might be benefitial, then maybe you shouldn't be drawing in the first place.

Then again, I might be somewhat of a nice guy and give the guy one last split second to save his own life. If there are more than one, they get no chance. If there is only one and I surely have the drop on them, sure. In my mind every situation is different and it is up to you.

[R.H. Lee]

Is there an exemption for deaf mutes?

[SLCDave]

Yes Riley. They have to flip the other party of....

[dustind]

There is no requirement in any place that I can think of to say anything. It could possibly help you out in court later if it comes to that. As always, let your lawyer do your talking.

[CarlS]

There is no such requirement in Florida. When it comes time to defend my life, there ain't no time for a fancy speech! However, a verbal warning may be an asset in civil court. Beerslurpy summed it up well. Know what your state laws regarding the use of lethal force for self defense say.

[griz]

Maybe while reloading you can forcefully yell: Stop or I will shoot again! :evil:

[spacemanspiff]

gonna depend on the situation. if it helps my tacticallity, then i will verbally warn the person. if not, front sight, press. repeat as needed.

[Firethorn]

:neener:

You just have to yell "He's coming right at us!" before you shoot. :rolleyes:

[Ringer]

When I took my training for Michigan CPL one of the two courses was the NRA Home Defense Course. As The Rabbi mentioned, part of this course describes a situation where you are barracaded and the BG/intruder is outside your (bedroom?) door. You are instructed to give a warning including stop, I have a gun, I will shoot. Hopefully you have the Police on the phone at the time you shout this warning. It was taught as good advice and again applied to being barracaded. Maybe someone confused this with a legal requirement. I'm no lawyer but have never seen this presented as law in anything I have read.

Personally I think the person you had a discussion with was mistaken but to find out for yourself I would recomend perusing the Michigan State Police CCW (http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654---,00.html) website and the Firearms Laws of Michgan (http://www.michiganlegislature.org/documents/publications/firearms.pdf).

[Zach S]

Is there an exemption for deaf mutes? Sign language. Clearing leather and holding your sidearm at low-ready should get the point across, even if both parties are deaf mutes.

[Diggler]

It will be obvious soon enough.

[shermacman]

I was told just the opposite. If you have the time and the wits to shout out a warning then your life is not in danger. My Massachusetts gun safety instructor and a friend who is a NH State Trooper both said that when the gun comes out it goes bang. No brandishing, no warnings. That being said, I would want to try some sort of action before I gun him down.

[The Rabbi]

I was told just the opposite. If you have the time and the wits to shout out a warning then your life is not in danger. My Massachusetts gun safety instructor and a friend who is a NH State Trooper both said that when the gun comes out it goes bang. No brandishing, no warnings. That being said, I would want to try some sort of action before I gun him down.

I am not sure how true that is or how good advice. I also dont think you can make a hard and fast rule. Remember, most incidents where guns stopped crimes happened without a shot being fired. That said, if you pull it at least be prepared to go all the way, is how I look at it.

[foghornl]

Since I don't have my CCW license yet, i wll most likely be in my home if such situation comes up.

In that case, my warning consists of the "Snick." of the 1911-A1 safety being set to 'fire' mode.

[Werewolf]

My Massachusetts gun safety instructor and a friend who is a NH State Trooper both said that when the gun comes out it goes bang. No brandishing, no warnings. The attorney who taught the CCW class I attended in OK said essentially the same thing. His exact words were, "If you pull your gun someone better die". I remember that to this day.

The class was collectively amazed. The attorney was grilled repeatedly and said the same thing over and over. It all boiled down to you don't pull your gun unless your life is in danger and if your life is in danger and you pull your gun you make darn sure you end the threat. No warning necessary!

He meant every word.
He showed us the law in our workbooks.
He was deadly serious and was trying to weed out those without the proper mindset necessary to carrying a gun, the cowboys and Rambo wannabees.

He then went on to discuss the "step into their shoes" doctrine and then related multiple true life scenarios of why it was a bad idea to do it.

I didn't agree with everything he told us - still don't but he gave excellent instruction and that is what I will base my decision to pull my gun on if the situation ever arises that I have to do so.

I will not be providing a warning because like another said if the situation is such that a warning could defuse it then the use of deadly force is most likely not warranted.

[charby]

In my CCW class the instructor was very clear and informative. He told us basically before you fire your weopon yell something like, I have a gun and if you don't leave I will use it. This being in your house.

He also told us that you shouldn't fire your weopn unless the alternative is you being killed if you don't.

IMO I think a verbal warning sets precedence that if the person whom is threatening you doesn't stand down they are planning on killing or seriously injuring you.

Charby

[rlq9thrk]

My CWP instructor, a retired career FBI man with a law degree, recommended keeping it hidden and only whip it out to actually fire. Anything else exposes you to charges of menacing, etc.; of course, laws vary from state to state.

Tuco Ramirez put it most succinctly: "If you got to shoot, shoot! Don't talk!"

[wasrjoe]

I was told just the opposite. If you have the time and the wits to shout out a warning then your life is not in danger. My Massachusetts gun safety instructor and a friend who is a NH State Trooper both said that when the gun comes out it goes bang. No brandishing, no warnings. That being said, I would want to try some sort of action before I gun him down.

If a man is coming at me with a tire iron, but is too far to hit me, but clearly shows that he intends to use said tire iron on me, I have the right to draw. In such a situation, a person would be capable of verbalizing his or her intent to use their firearm. There are plenty of situations in which your life can be in danger but you have time to react.

[Zonamo]

-there must be no way for you to retreat/avoid the situation (except in your home, business, fenced in area of property)
While retreat is certainly a good idea if it can be safely done, it is not a universal requirement. In most western states there is no requirement to run, hide, and cower.

Arizona Revised Statute 13-411. Justification; use of force in crime prevention

A. A person is justified in threatening or using both physical force and deadly physical force against another if and to the extent the person reasonably believes that physical force or deadly physical force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's commission of arson of an occupied structure under section 13-1704, burglary in the second or first degree under section 13-1507 or 13-1508, kidnapping under section 13-1304, manslaughter under section 13-1103, second or first degree murder under section 13-1104 or 13-1105, sexual conduct with a minor under section 13-1405, sexual assault under section 13-1406, child molestation under section 13-1410, armed robbery under section 13-1904, or aggravated assault under section 13-1204, subsection A, paragraphs 1 and 2.

B. There is no duty to retreat before threatening or using deadly physical force justified by subsection A of this section.

C. A person is presumed to be acting reasonably for the purposes of this section if he is acting to prevent the commission of any of the offenses listed in subsection A of this section.

[MarkDido]

Stop...BANG or I'll shoot!

[Gray Peterson]

Oregon has a duty to retreat, but Washington does not.

[crashresidue]

MY three laws of gun defense:

1) I never carry unless I REALLY think I'm gonna' need it.

2) I NEVER pull it unless I intend to use it.

3) I NEVER use it unless I intend to kill!

When the gun clears the leather, it's gonna' be "smokin'"!

I DON"T give warnings, I don't shoot "warning" shots, I'll show you the weapon before I pull it - if there's time - then it's up to YOU to decide whether you want to proceed.

Run and hide? - NOT in my house! You cross the threshold - your MINE!

That's why the ONLY weapon in my house that does NOT have a round chambered - is the shot-gun - if you're stupid enough to contine in, after hearing her "cycle" a round being chambered - then it's time to take you OUT of the gene pool! (No lifeguards at the shallow end - sorry!)

It's much easier to get out of jail - than a graveyard!

Remember this!

Gentle winds,
Russ

[Model520Fan]

Last week I had a discussion with a MI holder of a CPL. He stated that you are required to give a verbal warning that you are armed before firing?

You just learned something about the guy who said that. If he is otherwise a friend, you might want to warn him that he is FOS. It is utterly amazing some of the things that people say and believe.

[joelr]

Ask your friend what the statutory or case law basis is for that claim. My guess is that he doesn't have one.

That said, if you can shout out, say, "Stop! Don't hurt me!" a few times, repeatedly, without getting killed during the time, why not?

[CAPTAIN MIKE]

...Okay, let's think about this:

1. You are faced with a no-choice situation.
2. You draw and fire as required and stop the attack before it culminates in either your or someone else's death.
3. Later, when the police are interviewing witness(es), two or three of the witnesses recall they were minding their own business eating dinner when suddenly (just before the loud gunfire that made them poop in their pants) they heard someone (YOU) yell out "Stop right there or I'll shoot!" -- or words to that effect.
4. Police later write in their report that immediately before firing, you yelled out a 'last chance' warning to the (now dead) perpetrator, who's gun/knife/billyclub or whatever fell to the floor next to his body.
5. District Attorney - on reviewing the shoot, comes to a legal conclusion - 'Justifiable (defensive) Homicide'. No charges filed against you.

When I practice, whether I am told to or not I give a nice loud verbal command to the target as I am lining up my front and rear sights. It takes the time from holster to sighting-in to get that command out, and doing so doesn't slow me down one bit.

[artherd]

<BLAM><BLAM><BLAM><BLAM><BLAM><BLAM><BLAM><BLAM><BLAM><BLAM><BLAM><BLAM><BLAM><BLAM><BLAM><BLAM><BLAM>

Stop, <Click of mag falling out> or I'll shoot <click of new mag going in> you again!<clank of slide falling forward>