[50 Shooter]

This coming Sunday night 60 minutes is going to run a piece on .50 cals. They're interviewing Ronnie Barrett from Barrett and Tom (the toad) Diaz from VPC. I'm sure this is going to be one sided in true CBS fashion.

Here's a little preview http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/06/60minutes/main665257.shtml

[Justin]

Political cartoon taken from Scott Bieser's website http://www.libertyartworx.com


http://www.scottbieser.com/images/Diaz_speaks_700.jpg

[reagansquad]

Yeah, sure it can hit something a mile away... but only if the person shooting it is really really good. Those things cost what... $500 just to sight in? That's not even counting practice time... Doesn't do too much more than a good 30-06 (does it?). :banghead:

[Nightfall]

Great. I can't wait to hear how the .50 BMG is the greatest threat the civilized world has ever seen. No doubt this will be unbiased, and bring to light the true nature of the firearm and its use. :rolleyes:

[foghornl]

Quote:

Tom (the toad) Diaz

You are waaaaaay too kind, 50Shooter.

In all fairness, though, I have gotten something of value from the VPC. A couple of years back, when the VPC ran their hit piece about the "Ring of Fire" arms makers [Phoenix/Raven, Jennings, Bryco, Davis, et al] I got the instructions, drawings, parts list, etc for Sis-in-law's Raven .25. With said docs, I was able to strip/clean/lube/reassemble Sissy's Raven, so that it now works as designed. Thanks for the help, VPC.

[halvey]

I bet you will hear: "you don't need a .50 caliber gun for hunting."

[Travis McGee]

Limosine liberals hate and fear the 50 for one reason: they can penetrate their armored limos.

[50 Shooter]

Thanks Justin,
That's about right when it comes to Diaz.

Foghornl,
I'm just trying to stay within the THR guidelines for language. :D

[Waitone]

Thanks for the heads-up on the broadcast.

As a public service to the bleeting media types to may or may not lurk THR and other boards, I propose we here at the THR assemble a comprehensive list of allegations, observations, and panic attacks SEEBS and Mr. Dias will provide.

I'm specifically looking to predict the performance claims and statistics Dias will produce. I'm also looking to predict how SEEBS will spin it.

Third, how will SEEBS portray Mr. Barrett.

In case you missed my point, I'm not expecting a pro-firearms piece.

[ZeroX]

"These deadly weapons, tools of criminals and terrorists around the world, are even capable of shooting down a satellite!"

:rolleyes:

[El Tejon]

Gee, I hope they ask him how many crimes have been committed with .50BMG weapons. :rolleyes:

[JL2152]

Using a 50 cal doesn't seem cost effective or terrorists. They can buy a gun that costs several thousand dollars to purchase and several dollars a round to shoot. Or they could sneak in 200 dollar AKs from some third world country. Oh or they could buy stuff available to anyone in any hardware store to build bombs.

[mbs357]

"As for terrorism, Barrett says, "Any rifle in the hands of a terrorist is a deadly weapon.""
Exactly, and so can box cutters. Should be ban box cutters? If we'd have banned box cutters, the terrorists on September 11th would have used shingle knives, or pointy sticks.
The problem isn't the object being used, it's the people using them (for wrong).

[Firethorn]

"No one in the U.S. government knows who has these guns," he says.

That's a good thing. But they pretty much know the type:
Prosperous middle-aged target shooters.

[Dmack_901]

Or they could sneak in 200 dollar AKs from some third world country.
Actually 60 Minutes, or one of them shows did a documentry in which they bought a fully functioning, full auto AK in either Iraq, Iran or one of those, for the equivalent of $50 usd.

[10 Ring Tao]

I'll be busy sunday night. Can someone record it and post it here? We can distribute it via bit torrent easy enough.

[rock jock]

Limosine liberals hate and fear the 50 for one reason: they can penetrate their armored limos.
Bingo!

[Standing Wolf]

Yeah, and besides, those terrible awful wicked evil dangerous icky .50 caliber rifles cause cancer, deafness, car wrecks, and stock market crashes.

[yesterdaysyouth]

deafness

well..... :scrutiny:

[artherd]

I owe the VPC a debt of gratitude. I read their report on the .50cal, and thought to myself "Damn, I have got to get me some of that!"

So I did.

Thanks Tom!

http://www.dreamwithyoureyeswideopen.com/7400/M82A1-Ben3.jpg

[smokemaker]

I used a .50 all last deer season... 'course, it wasn't a .50 BMG. Next, it'll be .17's they go after.

[Combat-wombat]

Thanks, but no thanks- I'll pass on watching it. I don't feel like vomiting on Sunday night.

[pittspilot]

The good news is that no one really watches CBS anymore. Outside of Football.

[Rembrandt]

.....brought to us by CBS, the same people who gave us fake documents about GWB's guard service, were sued by General Westmoreland for liable and lost, and who have ratings lower than weather channel.

[Sven]

See B.S.

[Sparks]

Using a 50 cal doesn't seem cost effective or terrorists. They can buy a gun that costs several thousand dollars to purchase and several dollars a round to shoot. Or they could sneak in 200 dollar AKs from some third world country. Oh or they could buy stuff available to anyone in any hardware store to build bombs.
True. On the other hand, Barretts have been used by terrorists in the past, specifically by the IRA to shoot at British Army soldiers and helicopters. The Barretts were legally purchased in the US and then smuggled into Northern Ireland.

[JL2152]

The Barretts were legally purchased in the US and then smuggled into Northern Ireland.

If they can smuggle things out of the US and in to Ireland they could do the same thing with any other two countries. If they can't find what they need here they will find it some where else.

[280PLUS]

I think Barret is making a big mistake. These folks have a tremendous ability to take your words out of context and make you look like an @ss. He wouldn't be the first to fall into that trap. I'm going to watch just to study their methods.

[Rembrandt]

Smart and dumb move on Barretts part....you have to ask the simple question, "do I have more to gain or more to loose doing the interview?"

Negative side: draws more attention and negative publicity from people who may have been indifferent. Other local governments and cities may view this as a new crisis and take further action to restrict ownership. Newspapers and electronic media looking for fresh material will generate more panic and concern where none existed before. Brings future litigation which could affect other types of firearm ownership.

Positive side: Creates a fear amoung gun owners that these may not be available much longer, prices will rise along with demand. Barretts market with the military and law enforcement is still secure, he now creates a greater market on the civilian side akin to what the AWB did, hence panic buying. Making a public stand rally's some gun owners who were previously neutral.

A politician once commented about the publishing giant William Randolph Hearst....."never pick an arguement with someone who buys ink by the barrel".

[Waitone]

What SeeBS is doing is merely the wave of the future. Gun control war will be fought over the airways on a national basis.

If you believe in gun control your chances of success in congress are minimal. Courts are something less than helpful. Fighting it out state by state is an expensive and low success potential. Gun control reigns in the states where its chances are high. Others will be difficult to change.

What does it leave? National pitch through the only organ powerful enought to suggest change. . . national media.

I look forward to a steady drum beat about <insert evil of the day>.

[Rembrandt]

Take a look at the preview on CBS's web site....it's pretty obvious where they are going with this.

Quote Barrett: "It's a target rifle. It's a toy...a high-end adult recreational toy." (unfortunate choice of words).

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/06/60minutes/main665257.shtml

Offense wins games every time...

Diaz's strategy is to go on the offense using this piece to start a national movement and legislation to ban the 50. Gives him a forum and publicity he never had before.

This now puts Barrett and other gun owners on the defense to stop him. How many points do we put on our score board by doing this interview?

[Sparks]

If they can smuggle things out of the US and in to Ireland they could do the same thing with any other two countries. If they can't find what they need here they will find it some where else.
That wasn't the point of your original post though. (Not that you're not correct in theory, you understand, just that in practise they've brought stuff in from the states).
There's also the point that it means that Barrett's claim that his rifles have never been used in a crime is technically inaccurate - they've never been used in a crime in the US. Which I know is a small point to someone living in the US, but to those of us living elsewhere, isn't always such a little thing.

[Travis McGee]

I can't wait to see the piece. It'll be the first time I've watch those lying SOBs in years.

[SIGarmed]

True. On the other hand, Barretts have been used by terrorists in the past, specifically by the IRA to shoot at British Army soldiers and helicopters. The Barretts were legally purchased in the US and then smuggled into Northern Ireland.

I'd like to see some proof other than just presuming this is true.

Furthermore what has and has not been used in crime isn't an arguement for why American citizens should have their freedom stolen from them. If you can argue that a .50 BMG rifle should be banned because it's so dangerous you just made the arguement for a ban on all firearms.

[hillbilly]

I refuse to watch 60 Minutes or the CBS Nightly News or any other bit of "journalism" cranked out by those losers.

hillbilly

[another okie]

I watched it. It made me want one, bad.

It also made me angry when that liar said that no records were kept of purchases. I guess I can stop filling out those federal forms when I buy a gun, then.

[STORMIN29]

Can anyone else besides me, not access the web site since the show aired?

[LiquidTension]

I watched it. It's amazing that Diaz can't connect the dots. A four year old can understand this: terrorists don't have to buy $7k guns in the US, and criminals don't want to lug them around. This arseface uses the excuse of "well, it COULD happen, even though it hasn't in this country since the introduction of these rifles," when there are other MUCH more suitable weapons for terrorists to use.

[trapperjohn]

did anyone watch it? I forgot to

oops, should have read more carefully

[RRTX]

Can anyone else besides me, not access the web site since the show aired?

Barretts website works for me, it's just extremely slow. Probably a ton of people hitting it after the show aired.

[Smoke]

I spent Sunday evening taking an inventory on deer. Time much better spent than watching anything the tube has to show.http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=20391

[Ukraine Train]

I like how Barrett put Diaz in his place... he said how Diaz goes around saying what terrorists COULD do but haven't and he's just giving ideas to BGs, hoping that someone does something he talks about.

[50 Shooter]

I'm about to sit down and watch it, removed everything from the coffee table. Don't need any ammo to break the TV with when I see that moron Diaz and have to listen to his drivel.

One side note, if you plan on sending an email to the Communist Broadcasting Station, be POLITE. If you use curse words and call them names they will just use it against us.

[50 Shooter]

I watched it, nothing new. Tommy boy spouting his usual lies, Ronnie came off good other then the "toy" remark. Looks like NY will be next in line to ban them, to many negatives there.

[Psssniper]

Biggerhammer may have been taken off line or crashed, I can't seem to get to the discussion board, anyone else?

[softwaregurus]

Ed Bradley: El Cubo, nice earing too. (Ugh!)

1. Bradley did NOT identify Tom the Toad from VPC. He was identified as a anti-gun activist. Nice piece of cover-up work Bradley. Why didn't they identify him from the VPC and explain VPCs agenda??? :fire:

The VPCs own webpage states: The VPC approaches gun violence as a public health issue, advocating that firearms be held to the same health and safety standards that virtually all other consumer products must meet. Guns and tobacco are the only two consumer products for which there is no federal oversight for health and safety.

Yep, 'cept the Constitution's 2nd Amendment explicitly gives Americans the RIGHT to keep and bear firearms, no Federal regulation necessary.


2. Bradley didn't challenge the Toad's comment that gun purchase records are not kept. That's bull?????. The DOJ in Kalifornia requires the FFL who sold you the gun to keep records of the sale. Forgot how long they have to keep if for but I think I was told 7 years. :eek:

3. Closing comment by "earring boy" took a swipe at AG Ashcroft's decision to keep gun records for 24 hours instead of 90 days. I believe the reason for that is the modernization of the computer system used by the Fed DOJ: They are now tied into State records, so why keep the same record when its unnecessary. Gratuitous slap at GWB. :cuss:

[50 Shooter]

FFL's have to keep their records (4473) forever! When they retire they have to send everything to the BATFE, if they sell the biz they have to give the new owner all their paperwork.

LIES!!!

[GreenFurniture]

It's not just California, pardner. The FEDERAL gov't makes all FFLs keep their 4473s for TWENTY (20) years. If said FFL goes out of business or transfers his/her/their FFL they have to send their 4473s to the BATFE headquarters in D.C. post friggin haste.

Something to chew on.

[Tamara]

This ban should definitely cut down on the use of 5-foot-long, thirty-pound, $4,000+ rifles in convenience store stickups and drive-by shootings.

As a friend once said while showing a customer a McBros .50: "Anybody who can afford one of these things is a lot more likely to be sitting on the board of the local bank than they are to be robbing it." :uhoh:

[Guy B. Meredith]

What was the bit where Barrett said that use of the ammo or something was illegal, Bradley began to say something to the effect of "the fact that is illegal won't stop criminals", walking right into the trap where Barrett says something like "Right, and laws won't prevent them from obtaining the rifles". I just sat there stunned that he had set the trap so neatly. :D

[50 Shooter]

He was talking about Raufoss .50 BMG and yes it was a good set up. :)

[Jeeper]

I thought it was rather unbiased for CBS. He did set a nice point about terrorists not caring if it is illegal. I didnt think it was all that bad really.

[10 Ring Tao]

Did anyone record it?

[280PLUS]

I managed to just miss it. But I did catch a pre blurb that showed some guy rapidly firing like 10 rounds with one of the semi auto's. Now I shot a Grisley, once, and it was 3 seconds before everything settled back down and I could re-aquire the target. Can the Barret semi auto be fired accurately at that rate of fire? Or (reworded) does it absorb enough recoil to allow you to shoot accurately at that rate of fire? Looked like the guy had to hang on for dear life to me.

The tone of the blurb wasn't sounding favorable.

Oh, if it CAN be fired that fast accurately, I WANT ONE! But I aint got no $7000 to toss away on one though.

:cuss:

[Brad Johnson]

Anyone taken the time to use their interactive "Death Map". It shows New York state at only 6 deaths per 100,000. 'Scuse me? Last time I saw the US DOJ stats the number was significantly higher than that. Like triple. Then I noted that their "sources" for the information are two of the most singularly anti-gun outfits in the country - the National Center for Health Statistics, and the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. Oh, well. So much for accuracy in reporting. I guess the GWB forged docs flap didn't teach them anything (though I noted on their main page that they have gone to great lengths to publicize the firing of the producer and execs involved in that little faux pas).

Also, check out all the labeling under the stats. They must have assigned the most anti-gun staffer they had to write them, as blatantly snide and sarcastic as most of them are.

Brad

[Harry Tuttle]

Big Rifle A Terrorist Tool?

Jan. 9, 2005
http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2005/01/09/image665709x.jpg
The.50 caliber military rifle was just banned in California, but is still available in 49 states. ?(Photo: CBS)

"I just think there are certain occasions when we say in our society, this product is such a threat to our health and safety...our national security, we will not allow it."
Tom Diaz, Violence Policy Center

http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2005/01/09/image665710l.jpg

Ronnie Barrett, creator of the .50-caliber rifle, defends his weapon amidst a flurry of outrage. The military-grade weapon can be sold to civilians. ?(Photo: CBS)


(CBS)?California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger decided there’s a weapon that’s too dangerous to be in the hands of private citizens.

This past week, a new law went into effect in California banning that weapon. It’s the .50-caliber rifle, the Rolls Royce of sniper rifles. It’s a big gun, a favorite of armies around the world, and it’s still available in 49 states in this country to anyone over 18 with a clean record.

It is, without a doubt, the most powerful weapon you can buy. And, as Correspondent Ed Bradley reports, it's powerful enough to kill a man or pierce armor from more than a mile away.

A Senate report said that a bullet from a .50-caliber rifle, even at 1.5 miles, crashes into a target with more energy than a bullet fired at point-blank range from Dirty Harry’s famous .44 Magnum.

The .50-caliber rifle, one of the world’s best combat weapons, was invented 22 years ago in Murfreesboro, Tenn., by Ronnie Barrett.

How did he come up with the idea? "I was just a 26-year-old kid, and didn't know any better," he says.

But he knew enough to design a weapon that today is used by the armed forces of 35 different countries. He showed 60 Minutes a semi-automatic 82A1 rifle. "This was the first rifle that I designed, and has been our most popular rifle," he says. "This is the one that the United States Army ordered. Matter of fact, this is a U.S. Army rifle here."

Even though the .50-caliber rifle is a military-grade weapon, federal gun laws treat it like any other hunting rifle, and Barrett can sell the gun to civilians. He says he needs to, because military sales vary widely from year to year.

"If it weren’t for the civilian sales, I wouldn’t be here. There’s a lot of defense contractors that would not be here," says Barrett.

He has sold thousands of .50-caliber rifles to private citizens who, he says, want the guns for target shooting and big game hunting.

But he scoffs at critics who claim that .50-caliber rifles are too dangerous in the hands of civilians. "The .50 has an excellent record. You know, as far as the abuses with .50-caliber rifles, they are so few, if any, that all other calibers ought to aspire to have as good a record as it has," says Barrett. "And it's a long rifle. When you hear people say it’s a criminal’s weapon, this is 5-and-a-half feet tall, or something like that. This is not a weapon that a criminal would use."

It’s not convenience store robberies that worry Tom Diaz, a gun control advocate who was an expert witness in the California campaign to ban the gun.

Diaz says the .50-caliber rifle made by Barrett and other manufacturers is a menace in the hands of terrorists. "This gun is designed and built to smash things up and to set things on fire," says Diaz. "It’s a battlefield weapon. Yet it is sold as freely on the American civilian market as a .22 bolt action rifle."

What's wrong with Barrett's product?

"I'm glad Ronnie Barrett makes his rifle for our military forces. I think it's a great thing on the battlefield," says Diaz. "I just think that there are certain occasions when we say in our society, this product is such a threat to our health and safety, and in this case, our national security, we will not allow it."
But isn’t any gun in the hands of a terrorist a threat?

"Well of course any gun is. But it is a gun that is unparalleled by any other small arm available to civilians," says Diaz. "We control every other kind of weapon of war you can think of – machine guns, plastic explosives, rockets. But this thing has flown under the radar for about 20 years."

Why would you need a weapon this powerful if you're not fighting a war? "It's a target rifle. It's a toy," says Barrett. "It's a high-end adult recreational toy. Any rifle in the hands of a terrorist is a deadly weapon."

But New York City’s Police Commissioner Ray Kelly says the .50-caliber rifle is in a class by itself. He agreed to show 60 Minutes just how powerful the .50 caliber is.

First, a police sharpshooter fired the NYPD’s own .30 caliber sniper rifle at a steel target. Downrange, three football fields away, the three shots from the .30 caliber rifle bounced off the half-inch thick steel.

"You can see it hasn’t penetrated it," says Kelly.

Then the sharpshooter fired three rounds from a Barrett .50-caliber rifle at the same target.

"Went right through," says Kelly. "It is clearly a weapon of war, a round to be used in a wartime situation. It’s appropriate for the military. The effective range is about 2,000 yards. It’s a very formidable weapon."

In other words, if the NYPD’s range had been 20 football fields long, instead of three, the .50-caliber rifle – firing ordinary ammunition -- still would have been devastatingly effective.

"Clearly, it is a very powerful weapon. We saw what it could do as far as going through armor," says Kelly. "It would be a weapon that could do a lot of damage – no question about that."

This is exactly what the FBI learned in 1993 at Waco when Branch Davidians fired a Barrett .50-caliber sniper rifle at them.

In response, the FBI deployed Bradley fighting vehicles for protection. But even that wasn’t sufficient, and heavier armor was brought in.

What happened at Waco was one of the arguments made for banning the weapon in California. Other states are now considering a similar ban for fear of potential terrorist attacks.

"If you go through virtually any industrial state, you’ll see right off the highways all kinds of highly toxic and or flammable materials stored in big tanks. These are ideal targets," says Diaz. "The point is you can plan your attack from a longer distance. It’s the combination of range and power."

The standard .50-caliber bullet is four times heavier than the .30-caliber bullet, and 10 times heavier than the M16 bullet.

In addition to the standard .50-caliber bullet, some bullets are designed to pierce armor, some to set things on fire. Those are all legal to buy. But the most devastating .50-caliber bullet is an armor-piercing, incendiary and explosive round sometimes called Raufoss, after the company that makes it.

Barrett says he’s not concerned about Raufoss because it’s illegal. "It's a high-explosive round," he says. "It’s not available commercially. I can’t even buy it."

In fact, 60 Minutes found a number of sites on the Internet that claimed to be selling the explosive Raufoss ammunition. On one site, it witnessed someone making an apparent transaction of the illegal round.

Barrett said he was surprised. "If it is out there and if someone other than our military has it, then it is stolen," he says. "And those people need to be prosecuted. We have laws against that. Passing additional laws, you know, is just a redundancy."

But, according to Diaz, the threat posed by legal ammunition is frightening enough. There are many potential targets, he says, but the most obvious is commercial aviation.

"Do I believe I could shoot an aircraft at altitude? Of course not, but on takeoff and landing, I could take you to places in Washington, D.C., where I’m absolutely certain you could shoot an aircraft with one of these guns," says Diaz.

"Clearly, with the range that it has, and the impact capability that it has, it would put an airliner or an airplane at risk if it hit that plane," adds Kelly.

Could the gun be used by a terrorist to shoot down a commercial airliner?

"It'd be very difficult. It would if it were a tactic that were even remotely possible," says Barrett. "Then our military, who happens to use the rifle, would be training their troops to do such."

But in his sales brochures, Barrett advertises the .50-caliber as a weapon that can take planes down.

"There's some military brochures that we had early on that showed that you could damage aircraft on a runway or Scud missiles and things like that," says Barrett. "Yes, you could if you have a parked target."

But not in the air? "That's correct," says Barrett.

Just this past year, the Rand Corporation released a report identifying 11 potential terrorist scenarios involving Los Angeles International Airport.

In one scenario, “a sniper using a .50-caliber rifle fires at parked and taxiing aircraft.” The report concludes: “We were unable to identify any truly satisfactory solutions” for such an attack.

Diaz told 60 Minutes about other much more specific scenarios in which terrorists might use the weapon, which we chose not to broadcast.

"I consider some of the stuff Tom Diaz lays out irresponsible," says Barrett. "I know a lot of things, but I’m not going to go on the television and tell people what the capabilities of equipment are and possibly give ideas to people."

Is what Diaz is saying accurate? "Yes, it could be. But it also, seeming begging someone to commit this crime. Somebody please commit this crime so I can validate what I’ve been saying so long," says Barrett. "And it’s repeated over and over, and I fear that somebody will answer that call."

Diaz disagrees. "Its kind of a classic gun-industry argument," he says. "First, they deny there’s a problem and then when something happens, they point the finger at people who tried to warn about it and say you guys caused this and you just hoped it would happen."

Federal agencies responsible for preventing terrorist attacks declined to be interviewed about the .50-caliber rifle. But last June, the Department of Homeland Security told the Dallas Morning News, “We remain concerned about any weapon of choice that could potentially be used by a terrorist, including a .50-caliber rifle.”

"Any rifle could be used to engage a target that it might stand a chance of hitting, of course," says Barrett. "You know, you don’t want to shoot any high-speed projectile at an airplane. It’s illegal."

"A terrorist is not concerned about what’s legal or not," says Bradley.

"That’s correct," says Barrett. "And a terrorist is not concerned if you pass, or Tom Diaz passes, another law."

Diaz wants Congress to pass a law requiring, at a minimum, records to be kept of who’s buying .50-caliber rifles.

"The real question here is we do not know who has these terribly destructive rifles," says Diaz. "No one in the United States government knows who has these guns."

"Aren't records kept when a gun is sold," asks Bradley.

"The answer is no," says Diaz.

Under the Brady Bill, sales records of guns used to be kept for 90 days, which enabled the FBI to check the names of gun purchasers against terror watch lists.

A year ago, at Attorney General John Ashcroft’s initiative, Congress reduced the period of record keeping from 90 days to 24 hours. That’s the policy that’s in effect today.

© MMV, CBS Worldwide Inc. All Rights Reserved.

[Nightfall]

Personally, I think Mr. Barrett did a good job. He came across as level-headed and professional.

[Mulliga]

The footage with the guy shooting the .50 from the hip was hilarious. Reminded me of Robocop. I doubt he hit anything but the berm. They just needed the gun to be more "scary" to the average, uninformed viewer.

Anyone notice they had two antis (Diaz and that Ray Kelly) to one pro-gun person (Barrett)? Typical CBS fairness :barf: .

[Sparks]

I'd like to see some proof other than just presuming this is true.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/299635.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/1482426.stm

Several were legally bought in the US and smuggled to Ireland. Several were intercepted, but some got through. They were used from '92 to '97 when the ceasefire came into effect.

Furthermore what has and has not been used in crime isn't an arguement for why American citizens should have their freedom stolen from them. If you can argue that a .50 BMG rifle should be banned because it's so dangerous you just made the arguement for a ban on all firearms.

I corrected a factual error; I didn't make any argument one way or the other.

[Double Naught Spy]

Can the Barret semi auto be fired accurately at that rate of fire? Or (reworded) does it absorb enough recoil to allow you to shoot accurately at that rate of fire? Looked like the guy had to hang on for dear life to me.


Can the Barrett by firest accurately at that rate of fire? Sure, or at least pretty close. The recoil isn't all that bad. When shot using the bipod (not from the waist), there isn't much muzzle rise if you have a solid shooting platform. As such, recoil only drags the rifle a short distance. In my case and shooting on the ground, the thing that hindered shooting the most for rapid far was waiting for the kicked-up dust to clear.

[mnrivrat]

"Aren't records kept when a gun is sold," asks Bradley.

"The answer is no," says Diaz.

Looks like CBS is still not a bit concerned about allowing a lie to be presented as fact on their broadcast. :barf:

[Mr. Mysterious]

It all comes down to this:

Same lies; new gun.

[280PLUS]

Several parts caught my attention. Barret's pen, now THAT I want one of.

Bradley says something about how besides the military and police thousands of law abiding clean record citizens are being allowed to purchase them. I'm thinking, "Yea, so? Why not?"

The rest of the time was spent talking about them being in the hands of terrorists, law abiding citizens got little time for rebutt.

Diaz described the steel plates used in the test as "armor", I'm not so sure it was armor plate.

Oh. i saw a little "chicken finger" going on in the last close up of a trigger pull.

LOL

I could go on, I won't

thanx for the transcript and link

[Mr. Mysterious]

I agree about shooting the plates... that "sniper" needs to go back to BRM. His shot groups were terrible for only 300 yards. That shot group with the .50 would have missed the CofM.