[trickyasafox]

i've never shot a gun with fixed sights. i am really looking into getting a ruger gp100 in stainless. i think the fixed sight guns are more asthetically pleaseing, but am concerned about how close poa and poi are to each other. for those of you who have shot fixed sights and open adj sights, do you find that the fixed even if it were possible dont need adjusting?

any help is appreciated. im not even sure if the front sight drifts as some form of compesation of fixed guns

thanks again

mike

[Richard.Howe]

FS guns are typically regulated for a particular loading class, e.g. 158 gr. self-defense loads, etc. The trick is to find a load that your gun likes -- and there are plenty of folks out there with experience on this platform. I would not hesitate to go fixed on a GP-100. It's probably the only right thing to do on a carry gun...

Best of luck,
Rich

[MrMurphy]

What he said.


I had a Model 10 heavy barrel .38 of my dad's that shot dead on with 158s.

At fifty yards, prone, single action I could hit six for six on the body of a silhouette against a clock during a PPC match, despite the fact I hadn't shot the gun in two years and forgot where the gun hit in relation to the sights (pretty much, dead on).

The 50 yard group wasn't pretty but they were hits.

At 10-25, poi and poa were the same.


.357s are generally regulated for either 125 or 158 grain.

[M99M12]

What about the 140's :evil:

At social distance, I don't figure that my 50 yard group matters much.

[tbeb]

I recommend you buy one with adjustable sights. If you don't then you will have to try different ammo until you find one that hits where you're aiming. I have two Ruger Speed Six's (fixed sight revolver) and neither shoots to point of aim with 125 or 148 or 158 gr. bullets. I zeroed one for 125 gr. bullets by filing down the front sight. I just bought a new 9mm pistol that does not shoot to point of aim with 115 gr. and 124 gr. bullets. Rear sight on it is such that I can get one of a different height which will adjust point of impact. Some will say hitting close to what you're aiming at is good enough. I don't agree with that.

[DHart]

It seems to me that fixed sights are often too quickly overlooked by beginning buyers in today's gun market. Many buyers think that adjustable sights are needed. Depends on your application.

You need to decide whether you want a target gun or a fighting gun. You can't have the best of both in one gun. (Good excuse to buy TWO guns!)

Thinking about this gun, are ya?

Ruger GP-100 3" Barrel, Stainless, Fixed sights, .357 magnum (KGPF-331)
http://www.legendportraits.com/Images/Guns/KGPF331Lsm.jpg

http://www.legendportraits.com/Images/Guns/KGPF331Rsm.jpg

VERY fine choice!

Fighting guns are used at distances which do not require sights of any kind, really. It pretty much comes down to point the thing in a hot hurry and start pulling the trigger. (And hope to God you've had a lot of quality practice time with the gun!!!) POA to POI with various loads will be the least of your worries during this type of situation. Of most importance will be your familiarity with the gun and your proficiency in pulling the trigger double action in a hurry without scattering bullets all over the landscape. Easier said than done!

Typically, my fixed sight 3" guns (I have a bunch of them) can group within 1.5" POA=POI at 18' or so with 140-145 gr. JHP bullets (my preferred defense bullet weight), FREEHAND. Much more accurate than I need for defense use. 158 gr. or 125 gr. has little noticible difference at 18'. Worry more about your skills than the weight of the bullet.

If your target is far enough away and the situation is mild enough that you could take careful aim with sights and go for precision shooting, you probably have no legally defensible reason for shooting the person!

In a fine defense gun, adjustable sights are often more of a detriment than a benefit. They create a much higher profile, can easily hang up on clothing, and break more easily. The best defense revos have fixed sights.

For everything else, adjustable sights are nice to have.

Get two guns. (Or more! ;) )

[Coronach]

Concur with the above. If you want to use the gun for target shooting and the gun's sights are fixed, you need to find a load that it "likes", or just roll your own. Neither is really that difficult, but do require a little load testing. As you, presumably, like to shoot, this should not be a big issue. ;)

As a defensive gun, we're talking combat shooting. Now, while having tackdriving accuracy in a combat gun sure would be nice, let's face it- your shooting is really not going to be that delicate and precision in a self defense situation. Most loads will probably give you acceptable POI/POA convergence. Ideally, however, you would do load checking anyway, in order to have all of your bases covered.

Mike

[Z_Infidel]

While I agree a fixed-sight GP-100 is a fine choice, there is another option you might want to consider. I bought a GP-100 with adjustable sights, and then replaced them with a Big Dot Tritium front and a Bowen Rough Country rear. The Bowen rear sight is adjustable, but is much more solid and durable than the factory sight. It also doesn't snag on clothing. I purchased the V-notch with vertical post design but there is also a square notch version with white outline. IMO it is a huge improvement over the Ruger adjustable sight.

Go here for more info:
http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/shop/default.asp?action=_top&category=6

[Vern Humphrey]

Fixed sights are limitations -- although more rugged than adjustable sights. I've found most such guns shoot well enough for defense use -- and there are tricks to adjust fixed sights.

The most radical problem I've run into is on my Colt New Service. This gun had tiny sights -- an almost razor-thin front blade and a tiny rear notch. It shot about a foot and a half high and about a foot to the left.

Since the gun had been re-blued (and in the process most marks almost polished out), it wasn't really a collector's item any more. I soldered on a 1/8" slab of steel as the new front sight, and filed it for elevation. To adjust the windage, I opened up the rear notch -- shading it to the right. When finished, I had a beautiful Patridge sight picture -- nice and square, with a generous slice of light on both sides of the fat front sight. I can sit on my front porch (when my wife isn't home, of course) and punish a gallon can on the bank of the pond, about a hundred yards away.

[GuidoTorpedo]

My only concern with fixed sight wheel guns is sight picture.

Do fixed sight revos give as good as a sight picture as the adjustable sight ones? (say we're comparing ruger gp100s)

In a 3" format, I'm jonesing for either a 686 or a 696. But would settle for a gp100 if the fixed sight versions had good sight pictures.

DHart, would you mind taking a picture of the sight picture of the fifxed sight GP100 vs other fixed and adjustable sight revolverrs?

I think a lot of us would find that very helpful as all of the stores around where I live do not carry any of the mentioned pieces so I cannot go and check on them myself.

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
------------------------------------
Do fixed sight revos give as good as a sight picture as the adjustable sight ones? (say we're comparing ruger gp100s)
-------------------------------------

There are two aspects to sight picture, dimensions and orientation. Given square front and rear sights of proper dimensions, the MODERN fixed sight gun will have a sight picture virtually identical to the adjustable sight gun. Where there is a difference, it is usually in the depth of the rear notch (which is limited by the thickness of the top strap.)

Orientation is a different matter. The rear sight should be vertical or slightly sloped back to prevent glare. In fixed sight guns, the area around and under the notch is often curved, and presents a reflection problem. You will often find older fixed sight revolvers where the previous owner has roughed up the area around the sight with a file to cut down reflections.

In older fixed sight guns (like my Colt New Service) the sights may be horrible -- a thin blade and a teeny notch.

[DHart]

The sight picture on all of my Ruger and Smith & Wesson fixed sight guns (no antiques here, just modern guns) is excellent. As has been mentioned, the depth of the rear notch is a little less than with adjustable, but I don't find any disadvantage to that in use.

I do use sight paint to brighted the color of my front sighs (with fixed and adjustable sights) because my aging eyes have a hard time seeing the black front post, especially in my practice room... against a black bullseye. If you're worried that you might feel the sight picture with fixed sights would be unsatisfactory, I highly doubt that you would be disappointed at all.

One thing I really like about fixed sights is that the height of the sights is so much lower than adjustable sights which, by comparison, seem like they're sitting up in the stratosphere. It seems to me that quickly aligning the sights is faster and feels more instinctive with fixed sights vs. adjustable. But of course, one can adjust to and feel very comfortable with either.

Bottom line is if you want a great concealed carry/fighting revolver, I feel your worry about fixed sights is unfounded... I think they're awesome and really enjoy them. As I said before, make a plan to buy two guns! Then you can have the best of both worlds.

http://www.legendportraits.com/Images/Guns/SW65a1283.jpg

[DHart]

Z_Infidel... the Bowen Rough Country looks like a great replacement sight for an adjustable sight GP... I'd like to get one of those form my 4" GP-100.

[Stainz]

When evaluating the coincidence of your POA and POI with a fixed sight vs various ammo, remember that it is far better to hit lower than POA. At least then, if deemed necessary, the front sight blade could be filed down to 'match' a selected ammo, a one-way adjustment of course. Oddly, the old joke about the Ruger Vaquero's shooting 'low and left' had a cause... the front sight could be regulated. The left impact is most likely caused by backlash when screwing in the RH threaded barrel - it can be corrected by screwing the barrel in slightly more - something Ruger will do for you if you return your revolver.

I am always amused by the accuracy of my 2" 10... it's sights are close enough at 12-15yd, my evaluation distance for fixed sight PD/CC types, with the 158gr +P LHPSWC's that I leave it as is - and, can dispatch a 12" steel plate at 110yd with it as well, albeit not often. My 2.5" 296 is on the money with 200gr GDJHP's. My 3" 65-3 is a bit low - but acceptable - with those +P's. My latest plinker - a Ruger 50th Anniv SS (.22LR) - hits, like my 4.6" BHG Vaquero in .45, a bit low and left. One learns to adapt - after 'finding' the best ammo choice.

I always suggest (I am a part-time RO at a public range...) folks shoot their PD/CC revolvers primarily DA... and compare their shooting 'free hand' to SA shots taken from a rest. I suggest they use fixed sight revolvers for reliability. Learning their POI/POA coincidence vs ammo is important... but must be compared after proper shooting technique is developed.

Stainz

[DHart]

Guido... an easy way for you to see what the fixed sights on a 3" GP-100 are like is to go to any gun shop that stocks the SP-101.

Then, look closely at the fixed sights on the SP-101... they are a little smaller, but pretty much identical in design to those found on the somewhat larger GP-100 3" fixed sight models. They are great fixed sights... very effective.

http://www.legendportraits.com/Images/Guns/GPF331RtLrg.jpg