[countertop]

I posted parts of this as a reply here (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=120014) .

I currently own a Glock G23 in 40S&W as my day to day concealed carry piece. When I got it I loved it, but after carrying it and shooting it for a couple of years I've got to admit I hate it. It simply doesn't put a smile on my face any more. The recoil on the lightweight plastic body is annoying and while I understand the gun isn't a match target pistol, its accuracy is pretty crappy generally and only worse because of all the recoil. Plus, its ugly (it does work all the time though).

Anyway, My father in law has a Colt Government Model 1911 (with something called a Speed lug and a match barrel that one of the smiths in the army installed for him) he purchased for $45 when he was first commissioned in the army. He's carried it with him everywhere (Korea, Vietnam for three tours, the German/Russian front, and Iran and Iraq). After shooting the other night, he finally convinced me to ditch the Glock and get a real gun, thought it wasn't just him but also shooting other peoples 1911s that showed me the incredible increase in quality I've witnessed between the 1911 shooting experience and my Glock.

I've been looking at different 1911s and had some questions I was hoping could be answered. First, is there a good general FAQ somewhere for basic information on the 1911 geared toward someone with no real knowledge of them.

Also, concerning actual guns. I was looking at Kimber and was wondering what the real difference was between the (Custom II and Royal II wast and how they match up to his Colt or Para or even Springfield. What are the comparable models of Colt, Para, and Springfield.

I've got about $750 to spend and was hoping to buy the best gun for my money. I'll be using it for day to day carry but I also like to target shoot with it and want something accurate but also fully operational out of the box (just like my Glock is). Any suggestions or advice is much appreciated.

[bratch]

Your get lots of opinions. For 750 you can get a Kimber TLE. It hsa most of the goodies people want. Checkered front strap, night sights and so on. A down side to some people is the external extractor. Mine has been great and eats just about everything. Others have had different experiences.

A springfield Mil-Spec is a good base pistol to do your own work on.

There are tons of options have fun investigating them.

[Brass Balls]

Ditto bratch. In the $750 range I'd choose a Kimber TLE. I bought a TLE/RL last year for $799. It has been very reliable and quite accurate too. Whatever options you choose they are always less expensive when you buy them on the gun as opposed to sending the gun in later to have front strap checkering etc.

IMHO the Milt Sparks Versa Max 2 is the best concealed carry holster on the market for a 1911. http://www.miltsparks.com/VM-2.htm

[bratch]

I have a HR-LTD from the MS guys for mine. I aslo second the Milt Spark reccomendation if you can take the wait.

[rock jock]

One important difference between CCW and target 1911's are the sights. I would not recommend you have adjustable sights on a carry gun, but they are necessary on a true target gun.

[1911Tuner]

Speed lug? :scrutiny: :confused:

[wildehond]

It is prbably a Speed Shute/ Magwell

wildehond

[countertop]

Speed lug?

I'll ask him tonite for more details. He was telling me that it allows the action to cycle faster so that he can shoot a more accurate follow up shot sooner.

I don't know anything about it, but he thinks its the best thing since sliced cheese (or is that bread?).

Thanks for the info so far. I was thinking about the Springfield Mil Spec but don't want to spend a fortune in gunsmithing costs. I'd really like something that is able to suit me well right out of the box.

[shoot870p]

this should get a lot of replys and opinions. For that money you should be able to get a very servicable weapon. best of luck sorting this out!
Lee

[Richard.Howe]

Countertop -- spend lots of time here first:

http://forums.1911forum.com/

These guys are dedicated, and you'll have ZERO doubts about making the right choice if you do your homewrk first.

Take care,
Rich

[countertop]

http://forums.1911forum.com/

Thanks Rich,

That looks like the kind of thing I knew existed but just didn't know where it was.

[Siggyboy]

Countertop, I hear ya regarding your Glock 23. It seems a lot of people want a relatively compact 40, without realizing the significant downsides to that combination and the .40 S&W in particular. I do have a Glock 19 that I love, because it is much more pleasant than a 23.

As for 1911's within your price range, I can recommend looking at a few. One of the best in that range is the new Colt government model. Colt has had a long and bumpy road with its 1911's, but has finally put out some real nice ones again in the past few years. The new ones are called "NRM 1991A1", which is the basic government model, with a new roll-mark on the slide. These guns are made with high quality steel, and the barrels have a dimpled-throat that only Colt has and which allows for very reliable feeding. The downside to the Colts is that the gun might be a bit uncomfortable for long shooting sessions because of the Colt grip tang and the spur hammer (hammer bite). This can be remedied with a beavertail safety and commander-style hammer or by bobbing the hammer. Overall, the new Colts are great pistols, but they are also a bit tough to find.

The Kimber TLE is another good 1911 for the money, especially if you like a high beavertail safety, checkering and night sights on your pistol, which I do. I have an early TLE with the internal extractor and it has functioned perfectly. However, Kimber switched about a year ago to a short external extractor (hoping to sell more guns with it) and it has apparently been causing some problems. I bought my TLE for $750 about 1.5 yrs ago.

Dan Wesson is making some pretty good 1911's for the money. I had a stainless Patriot that was a real nice 1911.

Don't forget the Springfield Mil-Spec. This is a very basic 1911 but a very good one too. It is the cheapest of the bunch. 1911 Tuner here did a whole series of tests on it and it came out pretty good. I think his tests are easy to find on this board. Also, dsk from this board knows a lot about 1911's too and has done many range reports.

Good luck.

[Werewolf]

For $750 you can pick up a S&W 1911 Target. Very, very accurate. People rave about Sig and CZ accuracy . I own two CZ's and a Sig P220 and I can outshoot all of them with the S&W (I'm not wild about the SIG's accuracy at all but the CZ's are way more accurate than the Sig in my hands). The S&W Target comes with adjustable sights and Coco-Bolo wood grips. For about $680 you can get the same gun in the non-target version (plastic grips and fixed sights).

I've been very impressed with my Target version. About a 1000 rounds thru it now and not a single FTF/FTE. With handloads it outshoots all my other auto pistols and is competitive with my 686+ high vis (and I think the 686+ works for me so well only because I put a Red Dot sight on it).

The 1911 afficianados for some reason seem to be ignoring the S&W 1911. I sure don't know why. It's a mighty fine gun.

[R.H. Lee]

Googled 'speed lug' and only came up with some piece of machinery used in the lumber industry. http://www.forestnet.com/archives/Nov_99/tech_update.htm

But then, I'm not a Pistolsmith tm so what do I know?

[Shalako]

The gunshop guy was really trying to sell me on a new S&W 1911sc yesterday. It was NICE. He said the alloy frame was impregnated with scandium to make it as strong as steel. I'm a little doubtful about that. With the lighter frame and the short 4" barrel, it seemed like a great carry gun. I'm just not so sure if it is a real 1911...?

They also had a Kimber Pro-Carry II. It was really nice, but nearly $1k. If I was paying that kind of dough I'd just add a few more bills and get the Les Baer Custom Carry and call it good.

Will these alloy guns last as long as a steel one?

[fedlaw]

I got my first 1911 on 12/30/04. After shooting rental Kimbers, Les Baers and ChuckB's Springfield Loaded, I decided on a Kimber Stainless Target II. I have put over 500 rds. though it including Federal FMJ, Aquila FMJ, Blazer Brass FMJ and Speer Golddots (incl. 185gr+p's). The gun is 100% reliable, 1-hole accurate and simply feels great in my hands. At this point my only quibble has to do with the trigger. It has a small amount of take-up, which I don't mind, but it also has a slight amount of creep, which bothers me.

[Siggyboy]

The S&W scandium commander is pretty nice. It should be plenty strong, definately stronger than the many aluminum alloy guns, such as the Kimber lightweights or the Colt lightweight commander. I don't like the big S&W markings on it though.

[Richard.Howe]

1. "impregnated" with Scandium? True. Just like the Smith Airweights.

2. Strong as steel? False. While you're not likely to have any breakage issues, the material (essentially aluminum with trace amounts of Sc) is substantially more brittle than steel and has a lower ultimate yield strength. Does this bother me? If it did, then I would not have bought a model 340 chambered in 357 magnum -- with arguably higher imparted stresses than the 45 ACP. The 340 is my primary carry piece.

I would not worry about the pistol, as long as 1) it's reliable and 2) you don't try to put 50k rounds through it. Steel has a higher toughness than Al alloys, regardless of how much unobtanium you put in aluminum.

If you're looking for something you can shoot the crap out of...go with steel. If you want a light carry piece that might see 10,000 rounds, ever? I would not hesitate to buy the Sc version.

YMMV,
Rich

[Al Thompson]

One key is the grip safety, IMHO. I cannot comfortably shoot a 1911 unless it has a duckbill grip safety. If you have no problem with a standard 1911 (G.I.) grip safety, your miles ahead of me. :)

[countertop]

Googled 'speed lug' and only came up with some piece of machinery used in the lumber industry.

OK, heres what he told me. That on a 1911, there is a flange with a hole in it attached to the bottom of the barrel. That hole connects to a lug. In the mid to early 1960s, the Colts that were being sold to US Army officers (private sales, these were purchased for personal ownership and use while in the military) had a small lug. The smith for the marksmanship team had designed a larger (heavier??) lug that he would use in match barrels to make them cycle faster and help the shooter reacquire the target for a quicker well placed follow up shot.

Thats what they put on it and he says it works better than what ever it was that came stock (having real life experiences of killing enemy personell where if it was stock a follow up shot would have taken too long and he would be dead.) He swears by it and has carried it every day for about 45 years now.