[RealGun]

Why we need to keep our noses clean. This is exactly what the antis love to find, and they will run with it.

Armed Pilot Charged With Intoxication
January 13, 2005 11:35 PM EST
LAS VEGAS - An armed AirTran Airways pilot was charged with operating an aircraft under the influence after a federal screener at McCarran International Airport smelled alcohol, authorities said Thursday.

Las Vegas police arrested Oliver Paul Reason Jr., 37, in the cockpit of the AirTran plane shortly after he passed through an airport checkpoint Wednesday night, according to the Transportation Security Administration, police and the airline.

Orlando-based AirTran Holdings Inc. issued a statement Thursday saying the airline followed its safety procedures to ensure the Atlanta-bound aircraft was held at the gate.

"The captain neither took command of the aircraft nor was the aircraft operated in any manner," the airline said. It apologized to the 60 passengers inconvenienced by the canceled flight and said it is cooperating with authorities.

The pilot has been suspended from his duties as a federal flight deck officer, which had allowed him to carry the firearm, the TSA said.

<> see balance of AP story (http://tinyurl.com/4vez6)

[Spot77]

Biased article.

Since EVERY pilot should be armed as part of their job, why mention it unless you wish to sensationalize it.


Would the title have read, "Armed Policeman Charged with Intoxication" if a cop got busted drunk or hungover on the job?

[mbs357]

From what I've heard just about every pilot flies under the influence of at least a few drinks. What does it matter if he has a gun?
Indeed, biased article.

[Fly320s]

From what I've heard just about every pilot flies under the influence of at least a few drinks. What does it matter if he has a gun?
BS. Pure and simple.

Maybe you were joking, but I can't tell. As a group, we pilots are very cautious about using alcohol, or any other regulated item, because we are very thoroughly scrutinized when we go to work. They aren't many careers that are regulated to what a person can do when off work, but the FAA and the airlines do.

No one I know is willing to risk his career or freedom on a couple of beers.

There is always the 5% rule, though. In any given demographic group of people (pilots, cops, trashmen, nurses, whatever), about 5% of that group will be trouble makers of some sort. That's true with all of society.

Just because one idiot in Las Vegas goes to work drunk does not mean we all do that.

[TimRB]

"From what I've heard just about every pilot flies under the influence of at least a few drinks."

MBS, I imagine you're exaggerating to make a point, but just on the offhand chance that someone will take this statement seriously, I'd like to say that every pilot I know (and I know quite a few) is stark raving *neurotic* about NEVER flying after drinking. It is a sure-fire way to end your flying career instantly and forever. I have heard of only one airline pilot who was able to get his job back after a drinking incident, and to do it he had to jump through hoops for years.

If nothing else, just getting a private pilot certificate and an instrument rating costs around 10 thousand dollars these days, and most pilots are simply not willing to risk it.

Tim

[Double Naught Spy]

No doubt the antis loved this. Why? Because it happened.

Of course in the grand scheme, the gun was of little consequence to what the plane could do, but it is still an apparent matter of record that somebody like a pilot who may be irrespectful of the lives of his passengers and crew could and would be irrespectful of firearms and firearms handling.

[WT]

I think Northworst Airlines holds the record for tipsy pilots. Typically they catch them after they've landed.


http://archives.cnn.com/2002/TRAVEL/NEWS/07/03/drunk.pilot.cnna/

[ZeroX]

Obvious bias. There's no reason to mention that he was carrying.

[flatrock]

This pilot just ended his career, and we'll all be safer that way.

I'm glad they caught him.

The fact that he was armed with a gun has little to do with the story. He was about to be armed with a much more dangerous weapon, an airplane.

If he was truely drunk and armed, he'll likey be facing some criminal charges for that as well.

[Henry Bowman]

"The captain neither took command of the aircraft nor was the aircraft operated in any manner," the airline said. It apologized to the 60 passengers inconvenienced by the canceled flight and said it is cooperating with authorities.
Nor did he go on a shooting rampage. Shows that the mere presence of a gun does not create a danger.

[TallPine]

I suppose it would be okay to have a drunk pilot flying a plane, as long as he[she] didn't have a gun .....? :rolleyes:

[org]

A point: as far as I can tell, no mention was made of whether an alcohol test was administered and if so, whether it was positive. Trusting a TSA employee's nose (or anyone else's for that matter) to be proof of guilt seems a bit premature.

The point made before that professional pilots as a group are almost neurotic in their avoiding alcohol before flying can be taken a bit farther: most of us (yes, I am one) are similarly neurotic about driving after drinking. AFAIK, pilots are the only people who can lose their livelihood for an alcohol related offense not related to the job. Doctors, lawyers, teachers, and perhaps most significantly Senators are not penalized for drinking off the job (or on the job either, sometimes.)

Anyway, if the guy is actually proven to be drinking before work, he deserves any penalty thrown at him as well as the scorn of his peers.

The comment about most pilots flying under the influence, if a joke, isn't funny. If it isn't a joke, it displays ignorance.

[P95Carry]

Just because one idiot in Las Vegas goes to work drunk does not mean we all do that. Fly - there is the rub ... first the media jumps all over it to make a meal and second - it is I am sure a rare occurrence.... but oh my - there sure is potential mileage in that for those who have a ''thing'' about armed pilots.

It has been said already - ALL pilots should be armed ... if they can operate and fly a plane full of 400 odd people - then sure as heck they should be able to carry. The obfuscation I keep seeing related to arming of pilots is gettin old and tiresome.

[JamisJockey]

From what I've heard just about every pilot flies under the influence of at least a few drinks.

BS. Howabout some of you folks around here start backing up your baseless claims with facts or stastics.

[RealGun]

most of us (yes, I am one) are similarly neurotic about driving after drinking. AFAIK, pilots are the only people who can lose their livelihood for an alcohol related offense not related to the job.

I assumed he was an alcoholic, since it was an absurd occasion to have been drinking. Alcoholics have no rules. Getting busted will serve him well, I expect.

[R.H. Lee]

Why didn't the headline just read: "Drunk with Gun Attempts to Commandeer Airplane"?

[AZLibertarian]

mbs357From what I've heard just about every pilot flies under the influence of at least a few drinks. What does it matter if he has a gun? I'm afraid you win the prize for the dumbest comment to make it to THR.


Spot77Since EVERY pilot should be armed as part of their job...and
P95CarryALL pilots should be armed...Believe it or not, but not all pilots want to be armed. There are hassles in the program (which I won't get into), but some pilots have quite valid reasons not to be an FFDO.


org ...no mention was made of whether an alcohol test was administered and if so, whether it was positive...Please see...http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/sun/2005/jan/14/518126665.html
He was drunk. He was fired. He'll do time.

Almost comical, IMO, are the citations in the original article here, and the citation I gave above, from an AirTran spokesman which said that "The captain neither took command of the aircraft nor was the aircraft operated in any manner." and "We're pleased the system worked and he never took command of the aircraft." At the airline where I am a captain, while on a trip, the captain is always the captain. Not that we swagger around 24/7, but we're always responsible for what goes on. And a guy who is arrested, drunk, in the cockpit of the plane, certainly has taken "command of the aircraft". This spokesman is trying to make the public believe that nothing wrong was done. Everything was wrong here.

[P95Carry]

Believe it or not, but not all pilots want to be armed. AZ - I can accept that - I guess what I mean is - there should be TOTAL options for guys to carry - if they so wish. Not making it mandatory but - at the very least .... available.

Let's say - the terrestrial right should be extended to the airways - whether taken up or not.

[Zone Five]

I don't know Az. Most pilots that I know just aren't gun oriented at all. As long as training or testing is involved, and of course accountability, the vast majority are just going to avoid the issue. I really don't think it has much to do with the TSA's requirements, the folks I know just tend to seek the path of least resistance.

This incident certainly won't help with any of the issues you mentioned. Maybe the gummint had a reason to do all of that screening and testing, eh?

Z5

[Zone Five]

I don't agree with this nitwit, but put this up as an example of how one person's actions effect many others. Nothing new there!

Like someone else said, the editorial doesn't seem to have a problem with a pilot flying a weapon of mass distruction while drunk, just don't let him have a gun!

Z5


EDITORIAL

Bad combination
Our position: Drinking incident in Las Vegas shows why it's bad to arm airline pilots.


January 15, 2005

Under the best of circumstances, alcohol and guns don't mix. But in the cockpit of a commercial jetliner, the combination is simply unfathomable.

Incredibly, though, a gun-toting AirTran Airways pilot was arrested Wednesday in the cockpit of an Atlanta-bound jetliner after a federal screener at the Las Vegas airport smelled alcohol on his breath. Police say he failed a sobriety test.

At the urging of Winter Park Rep. John Mica, pilots who have special training now are allowed to carry guns in the cockpits of commercial jetliners. With locked and fortified cockpit doors, and an expanded force of air marshals on commercial flights, the idea was a bad one from the get-go. Pilots don't need guns. And the Las Vegas incident should prompt Congress to revisit the issue.

[org]

Yup, you're right. He was drunk. I didn't read enough articles. I'm not sure what you mean that "I'm the Captain all the time" but that's immaterial. If he reported to work under the influence, it doesn't make any difference if he's the Captain or one of Santa's eight tiny reindeer.

I doubt this will make any difference to the armed pilot program, since most of the public and even most legislators are smarter than some of the fools writing editorials these days. The program needs to be fixed and I for one will apply when the more stupid restrictions are eliminated. Carrying a firearm around in a locked box???? When congress gets tired of bureaucrats obstructing the spirit of the law, it will be taken care of. When that happens, lots more (not all, of course) will apply.

org

[AZLibertarian]

Zone FiveMost pilots that I know just aren't gun oriented at all. Heck, most people I know aren't gun oriented. I know many pilots who enjoy guns, and this has been discussed often here on THR. But I also know many pilots who are into golf, wood-working, hang-gliding, whatever. So who really knows?

The training and testing requirements (I'm told) are not terribly demanding--the biggest obstacle for many is to be able to get the time off from work to take the training. There are some who simply don't like guns...have small kids and/or a wife at home who opposes. For some, the TSA requirements are their reason. Whatever the reasoning, the decision to become a FFDO is an individual one, and it is not for me to question why someone decides one way or the other.

orgI'm not sure what you mean that "I'm the Captain all the time"What I mean here is that I am responsible for my crew all the time when I'm on a trip. It doesn't happen often, but I've sent flight attendants to the hospital, and seen a F/O have to run home for a medical emergency. At some point in these situations, someone usually asks me what I think ought to be done. Should, for example, my F/O get arrested or hospitalized while on a trip, I'd expect to be called at some point. I'm responsible for their safety and--to a certain extent--their behavior for the entire time we're on the trip. When we're off-duty, yet still on a trip and are with flight attentants, the same holds. It is in this sense that "I'm the Captain" all the time, and in command regardless of whether the airplane is in motion or not.

[mbs357]

LOL
Sorry about that, guys. What I was trying to say was, what's one drink?
Edit:
Also, from the snippet in the first post, I don't see any proof he was drinking. I believe they're just giving him a hard time because he's carrying.

[RealGun]

what's one drink?

Still dead wrong. Keep trying.

[mbs357]

Yea it is, but it doesn't effect a person that much.
Perhaps I'm seeing it wrongly. A plane is a lot more dangerous and complicated than a car.

[XD Niner]

mbs357,

I fly over 100,000 miles each year and have over 2 million miles on commercial flights to date. I personally have never observed a pilot or co-pilot that appeared to me to be under the influence. I know there have been a few reported cases but that is out of millions of flights each year.

My experience has been that pilots of commercial aircraft are great people and supreme professionals. Every one knows that he or she literally has the lives of several hundred people in their hands every time the climb into the front seat.

I think you owe these folks an apology.

[mbs357]

I believe I do.
Sorry guys.
As much as I claim to be not influenced by the media...I guess I've watched "Airplane" one too many times.
<3

[XD Niner]

Thanks for the quick response and heartfelt apology mbs357. Obviously you are someone with high integrity and character. We all say or write things we wished that we hadn't. Lord knows I have.

[pittspilot]

mbs357,

You should understand that this fellow has thrown his career away. He will never pilot another aircraft as a legal pilot in command. He will likely never work in the aviation industry again. It's a small industry, and we do not forgive indiscretions such as his. By attempting to fly under the influence he endangered us all.

Becoming an airline captain is a long ardous path. It is a pity to see it thrown away.

[Zone Five]

...and it is not for me to question why someone decides one way or the other.


Hey, you sound kind of like a Libertarian! :D

Z5