[rbernie]

Is Norma brass worth 2.5x as much as Remington brass for field work in my Mauser '95 7x57 hunting rifle? Why/why not?

[taliv]

offhand, i'd say there's two reason to pay extra for brass

1. accuracy. specifically, varmint hunting, benchrest shooting, or you're going to camp perry

2. if you are going to work up +P+ loads and want the extra metal there to keep your cases from exploding

[Wildalaska]

At least for the 6.5x55, Euro brass is more dimensionally appropriate than US brass

Wildprobablytruefor7x57tooAlaska

[rbernie]

At least for the 6.5x55, Euro brass is more dimensionally appropriate than US brass And this touches upon the heart of the matter. I'm finding that PMC brass (my primary stockpile right now) is undersized enough in the head that I'm getting more case 'bulging' than I'd care to see. I've got 10 reloads thru it so far with no signs of head separation, but I really feel that it's time to get some new.

If the Norma is dimensionally mo' better, I'm all for spending the extra $$$. I just hate to spend the extra $$$ if the Remington brass is just as good dimensionally and in materials as the Norma...

[Swamprabbit]

I'm sure Norma is of higher quality (they made the brass for Weatherby - at least many years ago). However, I never really cared much for Remington brass. I always seemed to have some type is issue with it frequently and it always seemed thinner than comparable Winchester brass. Just MHO.

[rick_reno]

I think it is - if you cut a Norma case and a Remington (or almost any other case) in half (top to bottom or lengthwise) it'll be obvious why it costs more. There is a lot more metal in the right places on the Norma brass.

[Wildalaska]

By the way, look at Lapau brass, just as good as Norma and cheaper by a bit

WildbrassballsAlaska

[rbernie]

Where does a poor plebe like me get Lapua brass in 7x57? Right now, I can only seem to find Norma and Remington in 7x57 (and the best prices for that at Midway).

[Wildalaska]

I thought Midway had it


Wildiget6.5x55brassfromthemAlaska

[rbernie]

Nope - everywhere I've looked, it seems that Lapua does't make 7x57. Midway only offers Norma and Remington in 7x57.

I may just bite the bullet and order 100 pieces of Norma and see what it looks like. <sigh> I just hate to spend $65 on what amounts to nothing more than five boxes of brass....

[ftierson]

Grafs has most all of the Lapua brass, but I can't remember if they had 7x57mm listed...

I've had pretty good luck with Remington rifle brass, and prefer it to Winchester. Of course, I'd rather have Norma or Lapua if they weren't quite as expensive.

As an example of the quality of Norma brass, I have been loading 6.5x55mm since 1964. Norma ammo and brass was about all that was available for the 6.5x55mm back then. I have loaded some Norma brass twenty times without case failure or primer pocket failure. And I'm not talking about weak kiddie loads either. Early on, I shot them only in a M94 Swedish Mauser Carbine which, fortunately, has a tight chamber. I always full length resize them. After every eighth loading I anneal the case neck. I'm sure that I could continue loading these cases, but, because I'm only partially stupid and not completely stupid, I won't...

Norma makes excellent brass. Is it worth what is being asked for it? You have to make that decision on your own. I still have a lot of new Norma brass for 6.5x55mm and 7x57mm, so I don't have to worry about it. However, I would probably buy less expensive brass than the Norma today if I was worrying about it.

But that's just me...

[12-34hom]

I used Norma brass when i was shooting a 243 Winchester, excellent brass, one reason i used it the primer holes are drilled not punched.

I wish they made it for 6mm Remington.

12-34hom.

[rbernie]

An update, if anyone's interested.... I went ahead and bought 100-count lots of both the Norma and Remington 7x57 brass so I could compare them. When they came in, I sectioned one case of each (using nothing more sophisticated than a hacksaw - sorry) to see what I could see.

The Norma head-to-case-wall joint was nicely filleted and substantive. The Remington case head actually had a groove rather than a fillet where the head met the wall, and the case walls just above the head were a bit thinner (thru observation - I couldn't find a repeatable way to measure this) than the Norma stuff. The OD of the case head (just below the extraction groove) for the Norma was .003 larger than that of the Remington - .0468 vs .0465, if I recall corrrectly. I've found that most US-distributed brass undersizes the OD of the case head a bit more than the spec calls for, and the Norma was just a bit better than the Remington in this regard. (This is important to me since my Mauser's got a pretty generous chamber.)

The primer pocket in both was properly sized and the flash holes were relatively well centered - no clear distinction in that regard. The Norma flash hole may be drilled vs. stamped, but the stamping process didn't seem to significantly deform the primer pocket of the Remington or cause a distinctive 'lip' on the inside of the case head. The extraction groove in each was identical in width, but I had no way to measure the depth. (My old lots of PMC brass sometimes would come in with a pretty large swing in terms of the width of the extraction groove, and occasionally that would cause me chambering issues in the field.)

From a 25-case sampling, the average OAL of the Remington stuff was 2.228, with a deviation of +/- .001. The same sample size of Norma yielded an average OAL of 2.228 as well, but with a deviation of +/- .004. I was very surprised at this - the Norma brass *clearly* was going to need trimming to bring the OAL into some semblance of uniformity, whereas I could have pressed the Remington brass into service as-is if needed. (I chose to trim both to 2.225, but that's just me..)

I don't have a scale with enough range to weight the cases or to weight their volume. However, when using case-filling loads of ball powder (H414, for example), neither brand of case has displayed any visual difference in internal volume between themselves or each other. (This is unlike my experiences with PMC brass, where I could see pretty large swings in case volume between individual PMC cases even with fine ball powders that settled pretty evenly.) The same load in both brands of brass shoots to the same POI, so I'm presuming that their interior volumes are pretty much the same. Finally, I can tell no accuracy difference between either brand in my limited range work. I'm getting 3/4" five-shot groups with either brass using my '95 Mauser's favorite deer-gettin' load (120gr Barnes TripleShock over 4Xgr Varget, lit by a CCI #200 primer).

Anyway, that's the story so far. The Norma brass is clearly beefier in the bottom third of the case, but in all other respects they seem to work and act pretty much the same. Unless it lasts 2.5x as long as the Remington stuff, I'm not sure that I can really justify popping $68/100 rounds of Norma brass when I can get the Remington for $25/100 rounds.

But the Norma stuff sure does have a much classier headstamp... :D

[Jwar88]

Norma is better brass, no question. The difference is not just dimensionality, but in metallurgy as well, where Norma would have the edge. If you are discriminating and want the absolute best, go Norma. Lapua is top notch as well, generally regarded as respecting tighter tolerances for match shooters.

Remington Brass works well when loaded to normal specs. If you try to push the envelope however, the Norma brass has that extra margin, and will work well with loads that will cause the Remington brass to stick to the chamber.

Considering that your rifle is a 95 Mauser and that the standard 7x57 loads are specified by SAMMI to be in the 45k psi range, I would think that any good quality commercial brass would do a stand-up job for you, and that any differences would not really be noticeable in actual usage.

In that caliber and rifle, I wouldn't be able to justify spending the extra $$$.

TC

[neolithic hunter]

well i think i solved the problem, i use wichester 30.06 brass in my m1 grand so when i buy brass i buy it by the thousand. at which time if i need 7x57, 9.3x62, or a number of others i order an extra 200 to 500 rounds run it through the sizing die trim it off and turn the neck if i have to. usually with miltary barrels, as with my 7x57, i can get buy with sizing and triming. if you check, you'll most likly find that your rifle has plenty of clerance in the neck area of the chamber to eliminate the neck turning issue. treating the brass this way i have never had a problem with pressure or accuracy, with a 140 gr bullet it will shoot into 1 inch at 100 yrds all day long. but feel free to turn the necks if not turning them would bother you. have fun LOL. :rolleyes:

[redneck2]

maybe in Handloader...maybe on the 'net

Norma
Laupa
Federal/Winchester
....
....
Remington

Now, I'm a Remmie firearms fan (870, several 700's), but supposedly their brass is not up to par.

I have a friend that shoots Perry. Had heads pulled off in his Bushie AR. Called the factory. First thing they said was "you're using Remington cases aren't you?" He was.

Dunno...I do know that a few years ago they had severe financial issues and perhaps the quality went down during that period. I use Winchester as they are priced right and seem to have consistent quality.

From what you've posted here, perhaps they're doing OK now.

YMMV