[pwolfman]

Today, I went to a local gun and tackle store, and they had a new girl working behind the counter. I asked to see the new Springfield 1911 GI (they had it for a pretty good price), and she just reaches in the case and pulls the gun out, muzzle first towards me, finger on the trigger :eek: :uhoh: I check the action and admire the gun and put it back, leaving shortly thereafter.

Before I left, I told the manager to give her a lesson on handing weapons to the customers, but I wanted to know what your reactions would have been...Should I have raised a big ruckus or was the word to the manager enough?

pwolfman

ps. don't even get me started on the muzzle discipline at gun shows.... :uhoh:

edited to fix my dog spelling... :neener:

[chetrogers]

I think i would have dont the same as you did.No need to make a big scene .And you told the manager who i assume will take it as a serious complant and deal with it.We all make mistakes but This was a serious one on her part..

[Standing Wolf]

The manager needs to hear about it. If it happens again, the owner needs to know why he's lost a customer.

It's a "muzzle," by the bye.

[Spot77]

I agree, you did the right thing.

Making a big scene might have turned her off from firearms and left her bitter (what's that saying about a women scorned? :evil: ) We don't need another anti.

I'm sure I would've subtly avoided the muzzle and taken possesion of the 1911 rather quickly to clear it.

[Zeke Menuar]

I might have made a casual low-key comment to the salesgirl.

You handled it the right way. No need to make a fuss. This time.

ZM

[George S.]

I probably would have grabbed it by the slide and gently pushed it up and away it from me off to one side. If nobody was around and she appeared to be trying to be helpful (and was cute :D ), I would explain to her how to safely handle and present a pistol or revolver to a customer for their inspection.

This was a serious error on her part but if she was trying to be helpful, the chances are that she would appreciate knowing what she did wrong and getting some advice on how to properly handle firearms. Sometimes a manager may berate an employee for doing something wrong (as in this instance) and maybe even told that the customer didn't know what they were talking about or was some kind of "gun nut". And then possibility would exist that the clerk might be give some other counter and would see it as some sort of disiplinary action.

If she (or he) didn't think they did anything wrong or didn't like what I tried to explain to them, then I would contact the manager. But there may be no reason to think that a manager would know any more than a clerk if the manager did not have any experience in handling firearms.

[Rich K]

You did the right thing,although I might have asked her if she was mad at me for some reason.

[Edmond]

I would've done the same thing that you did. Then again, it's not in my personality to make a scene about things. But if it happened again, I wouldn't go back to that shop.

[ConcernedCitizen]

I like to do things like throw both hands in the air, and say something stupid like "Don't shoot, I surrender"...

If done in a properly joking manner, it instantly points out the problem at hand, but doesn't add too much tension.

If it happens again, then more serious words need to be spoken...

[Dorian]

Furious which one of the four are you excluding?

What are your three?

1. Treat every gun as if it were always loaded

2. Do not point the gun at anything you do not intend to destroy/kill

3. Keep your DAMN finger off the DAMN trigger!(my favorite)

4. Be sure of your target and what is behind it.

[P95Carry]

Makes me think of a situation - which I believe was genuine - whereby a gun shop had taken in a rifle as a trade. Said rifle was placed in display rack along with others.

Non gun savvy clerk goes to demo said rifle to interested customer ... finger on trigger - Boom!

The gun had never been checked in clear - and clerk never checked clear either ... as well as ignoring the trigger rule. IIRC thank heaven .... by accident or design, at least rule #2 was in effect and no one was killed.

To all - everywhere - guns are always loaded.!!

[Rimmer]

Ummmm... was she cute? :D

If not I guess you did the right thing by talking with the manager.

[P95Carry]

Dorian ... the NRA has three basic rules ... put simply, they are close to the first three of Cooper's. Cooper's ''extra'' one is rule #4 - knowing target and what is beyond.

I teach NRA three rules in a course but - always throw in Cooper's #4 as well.

In fact NRA rule #3 is keep gun unloaded until ready to use - but this has under some circumstances a requirement for amendment - in CCW situations of course.

I will always stress the prime rule - Cooper and NRA #2 ... NRA - Always keep gun in a safe direction ( a need here to define safe) ... and Cooper - Never point a gun at anything you are not willing to destroy. That carries more weight IMO. But if all else fails, this essential rule will negate tragedy.

[mustanger98]

Hmmm... Ask her out and discuss "stuff" over lunch :D , take her to the range and give her some pointers and get her some experience :) because she's obviously new at this. :eek: :what:

[Yooper]

I would be inclined to show a young man or young woman the proper way to present a firearm right on the spot, but only because I can likely get away with it. Being an old goat has its advantages, young people would be less affronted or embarrassed by "fatherly" instruction than if it came from one of their peers.

[SpaceCowboy]

I'm with CC: I would throw my hands up as though I was under arrest, but in a jokeing manner. Except I would have told her that " if you wanted to go out, all you had to do was ask." :D

[PinnedAndRecessed]

Shoulda told the girl. I hate dealing with salespeople in gun stores who last worked at a job that included the phrase, "Would you like fries with that?"

[Dionysusigma]

I'd reply to that with something along the lines of "I hate dealing with customers who feel superior to ordinary people making an honest buck." :mad:

Merely not knowing protocol and safety measures when handling firearms has nothing to do with previous position, nor intellect. I'd say it's at least as much the manager's fault as hers. Manager's at fault b/c they didn't instruct her properly, and she's at fault for not using common sense. I'd not mind as long as it didn't happen again (especially after they'd cleared it a few times before handing it to me).

[dfaugh]

I would've naturally grabbed her arm and twisted it away....Just ask my younger son...He and his buddies had one kids BB pistol...He was coming down the stairs, I was walking towards him, and he pointed the gun at me. Luckily for him I caught myself before I broke his wrist...Long before this, he and his brother had been made to learn to recite the 4 rules...But his excuse was "its only a BB gun, and its unloaded"...Well, you see what that got him.

So, had it been me, I'd probably be in jail on assault charges :( ...

[entropy]

I did something similar to a friend while hunting. He kept bumping me in the legs with the barrel of his SMLE; The first time, I gently pushed the muzzle away saying, "Watch your muzzle." The second time, I yanked the muzzle away, saying " Don't point that thing at me again!" The third time, :what: , I grabbed the rifle right out of his hands, dropped the mag, opened the bolt and said, "NOW you can point it at me!" and handed it back to him. We agreed not to hunt together after that. ;) But in this instance I'd probably politely offer to teach her the correct way of handing a gun to a customer... :D

[stevelyn]

I think speaking to the manager was proper. I'm sure the sales girl won't be last employee who is unfamiliar with proper gunhandling. At least the manager is now aware that some basic instruction needs to be given new employees assigned to work the gun counter.
If it were me...............you know, being a certified instructor and all............ and no one was around as to cause embarrassment to the sales girl, and she met my minimal standards..............I would probably be inclined give her a quick, discreet demonstration on how to safely clear and hand a gun over to a customer with the option of more advanced instruction after she gets off work. :evil: :D

[El Rojo]

If she seemed approachable and nice, I would have probably told her myself. If she thanked me and seemed appreciative, I would have left it at that. If she got pissy or acted like she didn't need my advice, then I would tell the manager and let him know that if it happened again I would take my business elsewhere. Treat people with respect and you can go miles.

[cerberus]

Just as you always need to be on guard for any thing that could happen. When you walk into any store where firearms are being sold you have to remember it's you walking into their store not them wakling into your home. So you just need to watch what the sales person is doing and keep yourself out of harms way. In many stores your not going to find salespeople that are NRA trained in how to handle firearms. :uhoh: And it's not your job to train them. All you can really do is take action to keep yourself safe meaning stay clear of the business end of the firearm. ;)

[spacemanspiff]

i'd mention something as well. may preface it with a question of "how long have you worked here?" get her to talk about whatever firearm safety training she has had, and determine if she never knew how to handle guns or just was complacent.

then again, if i was still reeling from my caffeine fix i'd probably have done a tumble roll out of the line of fire and drawn out my taser if she was hot. if she wasnt i'd just draw out my kimber and keep it at low ready.

:evil: :neener: :what: :eek: :D

[DT Guy]

I'd have reflexively struck her forearm in a secret, centuries old Ninja nerve strike. This would have left her paralyzed, but only for a year or so.

When the other store employees tried to intervene, I'd have been forced to use my Ninja mind-control techniques to make them, and any other customers present, forget the incident ever happened. My hands have been trained to not leave fingerprints, so there would never be any record of my having been there whatsoever.

But that's just me.


Larry

[CAPTAIN MIKE]

You did well. Probably wouldn't have hurt to give the counter-girl a short but polite lesson in safe handling of firearms, but none the less, you did the right thing.

[Double Maduro]

Had pretty much the same thing happen around the holidays, came home and called the department manager. He apologized and said it was a new salesperson and he would take care of it.

You done good.

DM

[Andrew Rothman]

I would have made a stink to the girl loudly enough that the manager would have come running.

There is no -- NO -- excuse for that kind of safety violation at a gun store, and it ought to be dealt with as firmly as possible.

This was not a breach of etiquette, it was a very serious safety violation that could have cost you your life. All guns are always loaded, remember?

I would have probably chewed the manager out pretty good for having a salesperson with access to guns that either had no training (management's fault) or decided to ignore it (employee's fault).

In any case, the manager NEEDS to know that this is going on.

And if the manager doesn't seem as horrified as I am, then I ain't goin' back.

[BluesBear]

After all of the flailing of arms, gnashing of teeth and sanctimonious verbal pontification has subsided I believe that you will realize that you have done absolutely nothing but harm our cause.

While I agree that the employee NEEDS to know what she did wrong there is a right way and a wrong way to TEACH her this.

Do you really want to be the one responsible for her disdain of gun owners?
Do you really want to be the one she thinks of when she looks at a gun or another customer?
Or would you rather be thoiught of as the nice, learned person who HELPED her?

How do you know what the manager did or did not tell her to do? It is quite possible he por she DID attempt to teach this girl proper handling. But as we should all know, sometimes the excitement of having a new job can cause you to "forget" things. If she had be properly instructed, (and the key word here is properly, since most stores today give the bare minimum of training) then I for one, would rather be thought of as the customer who was understanding enough to help her remember. Perhaps she will then be calmer the next time and get it right.

However if you are the one who shouts, belittles and generally embarasses her, (and you could quite possibly cost her her job) the next time she has a customer she might be even more nervous and could schmuck up even more.

After talking with her to make sure she understood how serious this is i would then make a decision of whether to talk to the manager or not. If I thought that she had either not been properly trained or had mearly forgotten in her enthusiasm, I might not say anything negative to the manager.

If, however, she has an "I don't know and i don't really care, you can't tell me anything, I'm only here for the paycheck attitude." THEN I would ask for the manager and explain it all politely with both of them present.

After all it's much much better to make friends in the firearms community that to alieniate someone.

After all, the day may come when you want a btter deal on something in that store.
And who do you think will get that better deal? The nice guy who is always ready to share their knowledge or the guy who rants, raves and appears to be a jerk?


Just something to think about.

I already know which person I am.

[crt360]

she just reaches in the case and pulls the gun out, muzzle first towards me, finger on the trigger
I would have slowly put both hands in the air and done what she told me, especially if she was cute. :)

[Pylon]

This story reminds me of the time i was in a gun store and asked to see a revolver. The guy behind the counter gladly picked it up, opened the cylinder to spin it and slapped it back into position. That just made me cringe and wonder about how many other revolvers he has done that too and if the timings were all off. I promptly thanked him for showing me the gun and left.

I wish people that worked in gun stores had little more background training on guns.

[Fumbler]

There have been many good responses.

If it were me I would have taken the gun and [kindly] asked if anyone had ever shown her how to hand someone a gun.
I'd explain to her how to do it then show her what she is supposed to do as I handed it back to her.
As I leave I'd inform the manager/shop owner that he needs to make sure his employees know how to handle guns or they shouldn't be handling them at all.

There's no need to go off the deep end in a situation like this.
Not everyone can hhire the best help and many many many people are simply ignorant.
It's not completely their fault, that's just the way it is.
Don't get upset, just correct them.

[Andrew Rothman]

Again, I wouldn't get upset: I'd get LOUD.

I am SICK of hearing people talk about negligent discharges as if they are inevitable. They are not!

I mean, would you say, "There are only two kinds of pilots: those that have crashed, and those that will"? Insane.

If you're not prepared to take as much care with a deadly weapon as you would with a flying machine, you shouldn't touch `em.

Like the sign says, "Safety is no accident."

I am not concerned about hurting feelings. The message must be clear and unequivocal: What the H-E-double-toothpicks are you doing handling a gun unsafely?

It might not be the manager's fault. It might be. Either way, they're gonna have to do things differently there, and I mean now.

If the manager is not as horrified as I am at his employee's "mistake," I want his feelings to get hurt.

If fewer gun owners treated the rules as optional, there'd be fewer stupid-ass accidents with guns "going off" and we as a group would be -- and would thus be seen as -- more responsible.

[torpid]

Well, if she was sloppy enough to have her finger on the trigger and the muzzle pointed at you, it really wouldn't be reaching to assume she didn't ever check/clear the gun, and it might actually be loaded.

[Joe Demko]

Good thing it wasn't me

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would've naturally thrown myself out of her line of fire, drawn my Deagle and double-tapped her COM....Just ask my younger son...He and his buddies had one kid's BB pistol...He was coming down the stairs, I was walking towards him, and he pointed the gun at me. Unhappily for him, I couldn't catch myself before I lit him up...Long before this, he and his brother had been made to learn to recite the 4 rules...But his excuse was "its only a BB gun, and its unloaded"...Well, you see what that got him.

So, had it been me, I'd probably be in jail on manslaughter charges.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[ajkurp]

No need to make a fuss, just gently educate the young lady, if she will permit it.

In my job I stand on her side of the counter. Ninety percent of the people that I hand firearms to are a joy to serve. The other ten percent have raised my hackles by doing stupid things like:
Seeing how fast and how many times a shotgun slide will rack in 10 seconds;
Not a care in the world, pulling the trigger through a DA revolver while it is pointed at my belly;
And the ones that bring guns with a round in the chamber.

So far, I haven't reached across and beech slapped anyone. lol.

So extending courtesy to a new person to our shooter ranks will pay off in the long run as that person matures in the firearms field. No matter which side of the counter they stand.

[DarkKnight01]

IMO its more the managers fault than it is the employee, The manager should have saw to it that she was properly trained, then observed her while dealing with customers to make sure she properly handled the weapon. Personally I wouldnt say much of anything besides, "dont point that weapon at me" and left the store never to return, theres plenty of other stores to shop at that dont point guns at me =)

[pete f]

I have had this happen to me more than once... Once it was the store owner and I made sure I let him know why I was never coming back.

Another time it was at Gander mountain and I gave the kid behind the counter a ten minute lesson on how to look educated with a gun. I also called his boss and told him about the incident, but included that sales kid took all my corrections with a good attitude. I wanted the kid to get reinforced not reamed.

The last time it happened was with a shotgun on the counter as it was being written up, the clerk repeatedly picked it up pointing the muzzle directly at me as he tried to read the serial number off of the receiver. The first time I stepped back and obviously ducked to avoid being covered, the second time I slapped the barrel hard with my hand nearly knocking it out of his hands. As the gun was a higher end Citori, the clerk was a little annoyed at me and so was the customer who knew nothing except the gun was pretty, and the clerk said please do not touch the gun in an indignant voice. I responded by saying "if you point it at me one more time I will shove it up your a$$." The manager heard the last comment and came running, told the employee to take his break now, and appologised to me and the customer buying the shotgun and then said he would make sure that never happened again. I thanked him and said any other answer would have lost him a good customer. Funny thing was the whole time this was happening, directly behind the counter was Cooper's four rules.