Curious how far my 30-06 will shoot


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chetrogers
January 15, 2005, 09:41 PM
I have a couple of questions that i hope anyone could answer.I have a Remington model 721 30-06 .Im curious how many yards this type of firearm can be expected to shoot? Is it possible to get 600 yards out of it.Also is there any scopes that would be good for shooting 100 yards and then the longer shots without recalibrating the scope."I hope that makes scense"Thanks for any info.

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Vern Humphrey
January 15, 2005, 10:22 PM
Your rifle will be effective at ranges of a thousand yards or more -- IF you have the skills. The .30-06 was the cartridge of choce for many years for the Palma Match, which is shot at a thousand yards. The old Army Known Distance qualification course and the modern Hi Power Military Match include a 600 yard event.

You can buy all sorts of scopes that are designed for zeroing at one range, and have aiming points for greater ranges. Shepard, Burris and Springfield Armory are brands that come to mind.

Jim Watson
January 16, 2005, 12:28 AM
I am not a real serious and proficient rifle shooter, but my old Winchester '06 did pretty well at 600 and 1000 yards when a friend took me to an F-class match (shot prone with artificial support allowed instead of sling.)

There are several scopes with multiple aim point reticles so you can theoretically get on at 100 and then just hold the right pipper on longer range targets. The Shepard is best known. My Long Range shooting friend was working with a Horus Vision scope yesterday. Leupold makes a varmint reticle scope that has several crosshairs for increasing ranges, though I don't think as far as 600 yards. There was an ad in Front Sight for another brand of scope which provides for range estimation and holdover. Almost all scope companies have a Mil-dot scope which allows for range estimation and holdover.

However, these things are made for hunters and snipers. The target shooter firing at known long range prefers a scope with precise and reliable adjustments so he can put the main reticle right on target with no chance of confusion.

The next limitation, given a good rifle and scope, is the ammunition. You are not going to do much at 600 yards with ammo from Walmart or the hardware store. Serious target ammo is expensive and not widely distributed. Most target shooters (except for military teams) are experienced handloaders, using the best bullets carefully loaded.

dfaugh
January 16, 2005, 07:59 AM
Look for one with a "mil-dot" reticle(this was referred to earlier as a "multiple dot" reticle")...They also allow you to estimate range (once you get the hang of it).

sundog
January 16, 2005, 09:31 AM
The 'M' stands for milliradian. If you've ever been a cannon cocker or mortar chunker or know how to call for fire, you'll know that term. Not that hard to learn. This is a very good reticle system if you learn how to use it. Dots are generally round or oval and work just a skosh differerent. There several good web site that have information about them, mainly sniper pages. Unless I need something for a very specific purpose, I will never again buy a scope that is not mil-dot. sundog

Tony Williams
January 16, 2005, 11:17 AM
If you mean literally how far will it shoot, if you point the barrel up at an appropriate angle (around 35 degrees) and let fly, then the answer depends on the ammunition.

The .30-06 firing a flatbased 180 grain spitzer bullet at 2,700 fps will travel 4,100 yards. If you load a boat-tailed bullet (same weight and muzzle velocity) it will travel no less than 5,600 yards, or 3.2 miles. (Source: NRA Firearms Fact Book).

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and Discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

DT Guy
January 16, 2005, 01:34 PM
Tony,

What kinda' groups you getting at 3.2 miles? :D


I suppose you'd need some sort of bipod, right? Or maybe a tripod....


Larry

sumpnz
January 16, 2005, 05:42 PM
Effective range all depends on what you are intending to do. For hunting, very few situations will allow a responsible, ethical hunter to take a shot at anything over about 400 yards. Those who REALLY know their rifle, load, the exact range, ballistics for the given conditions (drop and drift will vary with temperature, barometric pressure, humidity, wind speed and direction) and such are the only ones that should take such shots. Even then, few rifles will be able to humanely and reliably kill an animal like a deer, never mind elk and moose, at ranges beyond about 600-800 yards even with a perfectly placed shot.

Target shooters on the other hand, are limited by the skill they possess and quality of their equipment. 1000 yards is certainly reasonable to use an '06 at for target purposes assuming rifle, ammo, and shooter are all up to the task.

As mentioned earlier, the '06 will certainly fly over 3 miles, if fired at about a 35-40 degree angle upwards with no obstructions until reaching ground level. Of course, hitting anything (even the broad side of a barn) intentionally at that range is nearly impossible.

I recall an incident near Eugene, Oregon where a man was out fishing in a boat in the Willamette River with his son, possibly also with a fishing guide or some other adult. While casting his arm jerked and he lost his rod. Turns out he'd been hit in the forearm with a .30 cal FMJ rifle bullet. It lodged in his arm after being fired from an estimated 3 miles away. They never determined who the shooter was. Luckilly the wound did no serious lasting damage.

Vern Humphrey
January 16, 2005, 06:19 PM
Quote:
---------------------------------
Effective range all depends on what you are intending to do. For hunting, very few situations will allow a responsible, ethical hunter to take a shot at anything over about 400 yards.
--------------------------------

An awful lot of people NEVER shoot their rifles except from a bench rest, and at 100 yards. Certainly, most of us have never tried to hit a game-sized target at 400 yards from a field position.

I have my own range here on my farm, and can shoot out to 400 yards, and I find that even when I know the range and have all the time in the world, a 400 yard shot is far from a guarenteed hit.

chetrogers
January 16, 2005, 07:32 PM
THanks for all the info guys.I plan to be shooting from a bench and really would like to shoot at 100 yards and anything over 500 yards with the same scope without doing anything to it "If possible" to tell the truth i would like to have it so it wasnt an exactly on the same dot.To make it more challenging so i can get my skill level up.Thanks again for all the suggestions.

Art Eatman
January 17, 2005, 12:39 AM
I'm more of a hunter than a target shooter, and I tend toward a 3x9 scope and do the "set it and forget it" thing. Still, I've had occasion to play Ma Bell with Bambi--which takes some time to get worked out.

I zero my '06 for two inches high at 100 yards, which is dead-on at 200 and about six inches low at 300. I've learned that my pet loads drop about two feet at 400 and four feet at 500.

So, I've learned to be pretty close at estimating how much "Kentucky windage" is needed at 350 and on out. Nowadays, a laser range-finder makes the distance easy, so holdover is simplified.

Aside from the scopes with extra hairs or mildots in the reticule as aids to long-range shots, you can figure out how much of the thin part of a duplex crosshair is how much holdover...

FWIW, Art

artherd
January 17, 2005, 12:42 AM
I really love long-range shooting.

An awful lot of people NEVER shoot their rifles except from a bench rest, and at 100 yards. Certainly, most of us have never tried to hit a game-sized target at 400 yards from a field position.


I've sometimes pop clays at 500yds for giggles (though with a .338LM weighing in at about 16lbs w/scope, prone, with pipod. )

It sure can be done, and the .338 has more energy at 500 than a .308 does at the muzzle!

I know of a guy also with a .338LM who has taken elk at 900yds.


Needless to say, teh above are outrageous exceptions, and you shouldn't try it withought some very serious gear and expierence. I don't know that I'd try to take an animal at 900yds myself even. And that's with $3k of precision gear and an ideal hypothetical situation.

artherd
January 17, 2005, 12:56 AM
THanks for all the info guys.I plan to be shooting from a bench and really would like to shoot at 100 yards and anything over 500 yards with the same scope without doing anything to it "If possible" to tell the truth i would like to have it so it wasnt an exactly on the same dot.To make it more challenging so i can get my skill level up.Thanks again for all the suggestions.

Then you want a Shepherd scope. Fantastic scopes, I wish they came in 300mm tube with 56mm objective for a little more exit pupil. (they are 1" and 40mm) and maybe had gradiations to 2k yds (they do 1k now.) Other than that, they are one of the best scopes I've ever used. (And I've used US Optics, and Nightforce.)

The V2 (6-18x40mm) should match a heavier (ie 180gr) .30-06

nbkky71
January 18, 2005, 12:56 PM
Maximum range is achieved when the elevation is 45 degrees. The one thing I remember from college physics!

pbhome71
January 18, 2005, 01:10 PM
The 45 degree is when there is no drag involved. For example, I believe, an approximation of a 168gr Sierra MK's max range is 4769 yards at standard atmospheric pressure. The elevation is 34.6 degree (using G-1 drag function) - assuming 2750 FPS muzzle velocity.

Obviously, effective range is usually much much less that this.

-Pat

Swamprabbit
January 18, 2005, 01:47 PM
I've used Leupold VXIII scopes and installed the Stony Point dials on my adjustments. After working up an accurate load, took it to the range and noted the number of "clicks" needed out to 800 (if I wanted to go to 1,000, I would have had to use a 30mm scope and possible shimmed the bases). After I found the "come-ups", I wrote them down on a piece of paper, laminated it and taped it to the rifle's buttstock.

The scope was zeroed at 300yds. Why? With a 300yd zero, I knew that at 100yds, I was hitting about 4" high to point of aim and about (if I remember right) 10" low at 400. This way, I didn't have to mess with adjusting my scope for shots out to about 400. Anything over that, I had better start using my rangefinder and make adjustments.

This was mainly for target shooting. I did kill some deer at around the 500yd marks but they were in locations that I had already "lazed" the ranges to specific landmarks so the distances were known. I passed up many more shots than I took though because I didn't know the range as well. With the '06, you have a lot of drop at long distances.

Marshall
January 18, 2005, 02:24 PM
hen you want a Shepherd scope. Fantastic scopes, I wish they came in 300mm tube

That would be a big ass scope! :neener:


The vast majority of my shooting is for purposes of hunting. My 30-06 BBR with it 3X9 Vari-X II will do about anything I need. I have taken deer at 350-400 yards by holding over and, believe it or not, it doesn't require much hold over at that range in order to hit in the vital zone. A 500 yard shot with my '06 is the absolute outer limits for me and conditions would have to absolutely ideal for me to take a 500 yard shot on Whitetail deer.

The funny thing is, I have only had two opportunities to take shot's that long for Whitetail deer. The vast, vast majority of them I could have used a handgun, and some I did. A couple of them were so close, I think a rock would have been appropriate. :evil:

But yes, an '06 will travel a long damn way and has been used for target shooting at very long ranges for many, many years.

I have never done any of it and really, 1000 yards could be fun but, how do see what your results were without having to wait until you get to the target to check it out? I can't see spotting scopes working well enough to see the bullet holes that far away?

Jim Watson
January 18, 2005, 03:11 PM
Organized Long Range shooting is normally done on old style ranges with target pits and retractable targets. You fire a shot, the pit crew (the relay not shooting at the time) pulls the target down, marks the hit with a disc big enough to see with a spotting scope (6" at 1000yds, white if you hit in the black, black if you hit in the white of the target) and hangs another disc at a location on the edge of the target to indcate the exact value of the shot. They paste the previous bullet hole, and run the target back up to repeat the process.
Lessee, now, I haven't done this very much, but as I recall the bottom left corner indicates your last shot is an X, bottom center is a 10, bottom right corner is a 9, right center edge is an 8, right top is a 7, left top is a 6, left center is a 5. And what, you might ask, is top center? Maggie's Drawers, a miss. Somebody will normally be on the walkie-talkie to tell you in which direction he thought you were off the target.

So notions of plinking casually at 500 - 1000 yards in a cornfield are not as easy as might be thought. With my eyes and a 60 mm Kowa spotting scope, I am doing well to pick bullet holes out of the black at 300 yards unless the light is just right.
A friend has acreage with a 600 yard target frame down the valley. We have a 18" gong swung there. Bullet splashes on the white painted steel are readily visible through a spotting scope. To get zeroed from scratch, we hang a board behind the gong and one of us sits off the line of fire behind a dirt bank and spots from close enough to see hits with a spotting scope and radios the results back to the shooter.

Tony Williams
January 18, 2005, 05:16 PM
The 45 degree is when there is no drag involved. For example, I believe, an approximation of a 168gr Sierra MK's max range is 4769 yards at standard atmospheric pressure. The elevation is 34.6 degree (using G-1 drag function) - assuming 2750 FPS muzzle velocity.

That sounds about right. Interestingly, when you get up to the really big, high-performance artillery pieces, the optimum elevation for maximum range can be as much as 55 degrees. This is because the steep angle gets the shells more quickly into the upper atmosphere where the air is thinner so there's less drag. A modern 120mm tank gun could theoretically fire its APFSDS projectiles out to around 135 km (yep, that's 84 miles!) if it could elevate its gun up to around 55 degrees.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and Discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

Vern Humphrey
January 18, 2005, 05:39 PM
Quote:
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That sounds about right. Interestingly, when you get up to the really big, high-performance artillery pieces, the optimum elevation for maximum range can be as much as 55 degrees. This is because the steep angle gets the shells more quickly into the upper atmosphere where the air is thinner so there's less drag. A modern 120mm tank gun could theoretically fire its APFSDS projectiles out to around 135 km (yep, that's 84 miles!) if it could elevate its gun up to around 55 degrees.
-----------------------------------

That's correct. The Paris Gun (often erroniously called "Big Bertha") achieved maximum range at about 55 degrees elevation. That's because the angle of the trajectory decayed to 45 degrees as the shell entered the stratosphere, and with vastly reduced drag, it was this angle (the angle it entered the stratosphere) that determined final range.

To understand the problem, reflect that three major forces affect a projectile's trajectory -- momemtum, gravity and drag.

Momentun (mass times velocity) tends to keep the projectile moving at a constant velocity in a straight line.

Gravity tends to draw the projectile back to earth.

Drag tends to slow the projectile.

Gravity is the same for all projectiles. But momentum (given the same velocity) increases with the cube of the projectile's size. Drag is complex, but can fairly be said (all other things being equal) to increase with the square of the projectile's size.

So if you doubled the size of the projectile, the momentum would increase by a factor of 8, and the drag by a factor of four. The larger projectile would lose velocity more slowly, and go farther (given equal muzzle velocities.)

Small arms projectiles are so small that they have very unfavorable momentum-to-drag ratios. At elevations above 35 degrees or so, the added distance the projectile has to travel through the air (and resulting drag) cancels any advantage from more elevation.

happy old sailor
January 20, 2005, 04:59 PM
i was doing alright with this until Vern posted. why do i feel so ignorant?
only thing i remember about it is that midrange trajectory, at 1000, is a little beyond 500 yards. an '06 projectile was about 16 feet in the air following a parabolic path back to earth. projectile was a 190 gr Sierra HPBT International Target unit in a worked up handload for my "bull gun", which i later had the bbl set back and rechambered for .308. yes, it was a higher scoring rig. obviously, shooting humans or game at 1000 yds is quite iffy. i have been using a .44 maggie since '60 for hunting, taking shots at 60 yards or less. you must get much closer, but thats why they call it hunting. no, i dont always get a deer, but will not starve if i do not. a survival situation would be different. i would use the very effective and silent snare. i have been razzed for not getting my deer. then i find they are shooting from a tree stand over a food plot with corn and salt added. so sollly, rambling again.

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