[client32]

I currently work for a college. I know that I am not allowed to carry while on the premise. I have been told by a former police officer that if I own a CHL (which I currently do not) I can legally have a firearm in my car, but it has to stay there.

I am wanting to know if that is correct, or if the law states that I can't have a gun in my vehicle either. Does anyone know, a link for information would be helpfull. Thanks.

[No4Mk1]

client32,

Head over to www.packing.org and check out the Texas page. That is a great jumping off point for TX CHL law. You can also post your question there and likely get a ton of replies.

My understanding of Texas law is that you can not carry on the "premises" of an educational institution, but as the law is presently defined, the "premises" does not include the public sidewalks, roads, or parking lot.

So, in answer to your question, as I understand it, with a CHL you would be completely OK if you leave the weapon in your car in the parking lot while you go inside.

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, so what I have given you is simply my opinion and worth exactly what you paid for it.

Best of luck!

[tawakoni]

Regarding handguns/firearms in a vehicle in a school parking lot in Texas, it's OK if the lot is open to the public (spaces for visitors) and accessible from a public road or street. A parking lot that is restricted to faculty only or requires an ID or pass to enter is off limits.

Best.

tawakoni

[MacPelto]

Regarding handguns/firearms in a vehicle in a school parking lot in Texas, it's OK if the lot is open to the public (spaces for visitors) and accessible from a public road or street. A parking lot that is restricted to faculty only or requires an ID or pass to enter is off limits.

Where do you get this from? I have never seen this opinion before, and in fact have been told quite the opposite.

[Blackhawk]

Another question. What is a "school" according to the Texas law?

Of course, a public school is, but what about a church that runs a private school in its facilities during the week?

How about Mac's Muffler Shop and Welding School?

Is "school" defined by statute or just case law or are you just supposed to know?

Also, if you have references on the definition, could you please cite them?

[tawakoni]

The Texas CHL law changed on 9/01/97 regarding school parking lots. Prior to that date it was forbidden to have a firearm when you picked up children or dropped them off in a school parking lot. This question is on the CHL written exam.

A school is defined as an educational institution, both public and private. A licensed daycare facility is considered to be a school.

This is in the Texas Penal Code, Section 46.03.

[Greybeard]

Tawak - Actually, I think the legislature thawked Attny. General Dan Morales' opinion ... Not to be arguemenative, but interest if ya can cite exactly what part of penal code was modified and how.

I understand that proposed rewording in H.B. 878 is trying to overule last Attny. General's opinion ...

[MacPelto]

I just read through 46.03 - 46.035, and I don't see anyplace where it says that 'public' parking lots are ok, but 'faculty' ones aren't. It seems to me to say that all parking lots are ok.
Ref. Ch 46.035(f)(3)

This was the root of my question, where do you het that some of the parking lots are off limits?

[Greybeard]

Mac - I'm just guessing it may have been seen in an "employee handbook" or the like rather than in 46.035 definition of "premises".

[tawakoni]

Hang on guys. My earlier posts came from my class notes from CHL Instructor School 2 years ago. Give me some time for research so I can recite chapter and verse.

Best.

tawakoni :)

[MacPelto]

Mac - I'm just guessing it may have been seen in an "employee handbook" or the like rather than in 46.035 definition of "premises".

That's what I figured, I just want to make sure I didn't miss anything! :)

[Blackhawk]

A school is defined as an educational institution, both public and private. A licensed daycare facility is considered to be a school.But is a Muffler Shop & Welding School a "school"?

Is a church that runs a school on the side, a "school" or is it a church?

The reason I ask is that all terms in a statute should be defined if they can have more than one meaning.

The language of the statute is clear, but it uses ambiguous terms.

Just because Mac says his muffler shop is a school, that doesn't make it one under the statute.

[tawakoni]

An educational institution, public or private, is a school. A church school is a private school. The students get educational credits just like those who attend public school.

Mac's Muffler Shop and Welding School? Well, it depends. It's not necessarily a school just because that's what Mac calls it. But is it a true vocational institution? If so, then it's a school.

Still researching the other questions...

Best.

tawakoni

[Blackhawk]

tawakoni,

I hate to be picky, but I need a statutory definition of "school" as used in 46.03 or reported cases.

Under your interpretation, Lottie's Accredited Typing and Beauty School could set up in Suite 612 of a 30 story see through, which would make the entire building a prohibited carry zone. Likewise, the 15,000 member Megachurch of Easy Living could set up a state approved kindergarten in Room 15E of its 37 acre fenced complex, which would make the entire area "school" premises under the statute.

Drive past any Texas public school and there's NO doubt that it's a school, especially when you see the prominant "SCHOOL ZONE" signs. Not so with these hole in the wall private ones or those entirely peripheral to the function and signage of the premises.

Stealth schools should at least be required to post "School Zone" signs if they want to prohibit CHL licensees from carrying guns on their premises and are unwilling to post 30.06 signs.

See the point?

[tawakoni]

Picky, uh, Blackhawk. :D

I DO see your point. I am looking for the statutory definition. A few years ago I often took my grandson home from Day Care. I would go in and chat with the staff while he got ready to leave and I carried my pistol just like I always do. There was no signage of any kind. It wasn't until I started teaching CHL classes that I learned that a licensed Day Care facility is a school. It never occurred to me that I was breaking the law.

The Penal Code regarding Texas concealed carry laws IS rather ambiguous. I intend to get the definitive answers. Give me a day or two.

Best.

tawakoni

[Blackhawk]

Thanks, tawakoni. :D

I couldn't find any statutory definition or case law, but I wonder if there's an AG letter on it.

Scary when you find out that you MIGHT have been breaking the law without any intention or knowledge, isn't it? :what:

[client32]

Thanks for all the replies. I would like to get a definate answer about the parking lot issue(faculty, staff, or public) along with a link where that information can be found.

Again thanks, this has been very informative.:)

[Leatherneck]

Scary when you find out that you MIGHT have been breaking the law without any intention or knowledge, isn't it? Blackhawk neatly pins down one of the core problems with ALL gun control.:barf:

TC
TFL Survivor

[MacPelto]

Well, as indicated above, there may be more to the issue than I am aware of, but here is what Texas Penal Code 46.03 - 46.035 has to say about it...



§ 46.03. Places Weapons Prohibited

(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):

(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;

(2) on the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress;

(3) in any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court;

(4) on the premises of a racetrack;

(5) in or into a secured area of an airport; or

(6) within 1,000 feet of premises the location of which is designated by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice as a place of execution under Article 43.19, Code of Criminal Procedure, on a day that a sentence of death is set to be imposed on the designated premises and the person received notice that:

(A) going within 1,000 feet of the premises with a weapon listed under this subsection was prohibited; or

(B) possessing a weapon listed under this subsection within 1,000 feet of the premises was prohibited.

(b) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (a)(1)-(4) that the actor possessed a firearm while in the actual discharge of his official duties as a member of the armed forces or national guard or a guard employed by a penal institution, or an officer of the court.

(c) In this section:

(1) "Premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035.

(2) "Secured area" means an area of an airport terminal building to which access is controlled by the inspection of persons and property under federal law.

(d) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(5) that the actor possessed a firearm or club while traveling to or from the actor's place of assignment or in the actual discharge of duties as:

(1) a member of the armed forces or national guard;

(2) a guard employed by a penal institution; or

(3) a security officer commissioned by the Texas Board of Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies if:

(A) the actor is wearing a distinctive uniform; and

(B) the firearm or club is in plain view; or

(4) Deleted by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 318, § 17, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

(5) a security officer who holds a personal protection authorization under the Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies Act (Article 4413(29bb), Vernon's Texas Civil Statutes).

(e) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(5) that the actor checked all firearms as baggage in accordance with federal or state law or regulations before entering a secured area.

(f) It is not a defense to prosecution under this section that the actor possessed a handgun and was licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.

(g) An offense under this section is a third degree felony.

(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(4) that the actor possessed a firearm or club while traveling to or from the actor's place of assignment or in the actual discharge of duties as a security officer commissioned by the Texas Board of Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies, if:

(1) the actor is wearing a distinctive uniform; and

(2) the firearm or club is in plain view.

(i) It is an exception to the application of Subsection (a)(6) that the actor possessed a firearm or club:

(1) while in a vehicle being driven on a public road; or

(2) at the actor's residence or place of employment.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 2962, ch. 508, § 1, eff. Aug. 29, 1983; Acts 1989, 71st Leg., ch. 749, § 2, eff. Sept. 1, 1989; Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 203, § 2.79; Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 386, § 71, eff. Aug. 26, 1991; Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 433, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1991; Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 554, § 50, eff. Sept. 1, 1991. Renumbered from § 46.04 and amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.

Amended by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 229, § 3, eff. Sept. 1, 1995; Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 260, § 42, eff. May 30, 1995; Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 318, § 17, eff. Sept. 1, 1995; Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 790, § 17, eff. Sept. 1, 1995; Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, §§ 10.03, 31.01(70), eff. Sept. 1, 1997; Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1043, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1997; Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1221, §§ 2, 3, eff. June 20, 1997; Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1261, § 25, eff. Sept. 1, 1997; Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1060, §§ 1, 2 eff. Sept. 1, 2001.


§ 46.035. Unlawful Carrying of Handgun by License Holder

(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:

(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;

(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;

(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;

(5) in an amusement park; or

(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.

(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity.

(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed.

(e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, and employed as a security officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the security officer's employment, the security officer violates a provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.

(f) In this section:

(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

(2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.

(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony of the third degree.

(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9.

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

Added by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 229, § 4, eff. Sept. 1, 1995. Amended by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, § 10.04, eff. Sept. 1, 1997; Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1261, §§ 26, 27, eff. Sept. 1, 1997; Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1420, § 14.833, eff. Sept. 1, 2001.




Emphasis mine.

Penal Code 46.03 (http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/pe/pe0004600.html#pe003.46.03)

Entire Texas Penal Code (http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/pe/pe0004600toc.html)

YMMV