[Drjones]

***I AM NOT ASKING FOR STORIES OR PERSONAL ANECDOTES OF SELF-DEFENSE SITUATIONS, SO DON'T FLAME ME***

What could one expect in the aftermath of a SD shooting?

I've heard and read that you shouldn't say ANYTHING at all to the cops.

Is that true?

Should you just say "I have no comment until I see my attorney"?

Or do you have to at least give them a report of what happened?

I suppose they'll take your gun for "evidence."

Will you get it back after its all said and done?

What else happens?

I live in CA, BTW.

Thank you

[Matthew Courtney]

You will probably be arrested. Your gun almost certainly will be taken. In Louisiana, you get your gun back after an acquittal. I don't know about CA. Make no statement to police until consulting an attorney.

[F4GIB]

In 30 years of lawyering, no client of mine ever went to prison for KEEPING HIS MOUTH SHUT.

Do a search of this board, TheFiringLine.com, and GlockTalk.com. This issue has been discussed to death.

Even the cops agree YOU should say nothing at all except "I want to speak to my lawyer." Repeat that to EVERYONE who tries to strike up a conversation. You'll probably be arrested. If so, say NOTHING to the snitch they'll put in as your cellmate. Shut up, wait for your lawyer. Let him do the talking.

[M1911]

I strongly suggest that you read Andrew Branca's book, the Law of Self Defense, available at Amazon.com.

[Airwolf]

For a real-live look at the events after you fire read this thread over at GlockTalk:

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126319

The guy involved is RoadRep and his first post is #7 on the first page. Read the whole thread. It WILL get your heart rate and BP way up there.

[Drjones]

Airwolf:

:what:

Sobering.


Thank you.

[Airwolf]

I thought that would get your attention. It did me.

Should be required reading for all of us who carry.

[Travis McGee]

The correct words to stammer out are "I was in fear for my life". No matter what, that is the answer. "I was in fear for my life."

[MitchSchaft]

If you are ever involved in a shooting, resist all urges to look at the guy after he is down. Move out of the area, and don't ever look at them. You want to remember them as a threat, not as a corpse.

:eek:

[MitchSchaft]

Did this happen in Memphis?!

[Hkmp5sd]

I also recommend watching the video, DEADLY FORCE: Firearms, Self-Defense and the Law.

[NewShooter78]

That was one heck of an encounter that guy had! That's the poster story for CCW if I ever heard one. Except for him loosing his gf, of course.

[M1911]

Only cost him $18,000 -- he got off light.

[Matthew Courtney]

That was one heck of an encounter that guy had! That's the poster story for CCW if I ever heard one. Except for him loosing his gf, of course.

In my opinion, she isn't good enough for him. It may take awhile, but he'll find a real woman one day.

[Standing Wolf]

I've just been persuaded. Thanks, eh?

[Baba Louie]

I think if you continue to read all of the posts, RR refers to Wichita KS. as the place.

ADios

[MitchSchaft]

I read his posts and I must have missed any mention of KS. The reason I was thinking it's Memphis is he used the name "Membodia" and there are a few nicknames out there for Memphis that Memphians use. I haven't heard Membodia before, but I have heard Memphis called West Mogidishu before.

[P95Carry]

That Glocktalk link was a definite ''must read'' .... appreciate it.

[Zander]

...I have heard Memphis called West Mogidishu before.No wonder...

[Jim March]

I plan on saying the following:

1) I was in fear of my life.

2) There are witnesses there, there, and there (describe them if needed).

3) I want a lawyer.

...and then zip it.

[Matthew Courtney]

1) I was in fear of my life.

2) There are witnesses there, there, and there (describe them if needed).

3) I want a lawyer.

Your sentiment is correct, but your order is faulty. You should say that you will not give any statement on the record until you have consulted with counsel, then say that you feared for your life and point out witnesses or other evidence.

[SKN]

I'm going to suggest a different tact; that is the need to put yourself on record as the victim and establish that the event met whatever standard your state statute has established for justifiable use of deadly physical force. If the first words out of your mouth are "I want a lawyer" you will be relying on the investigating officer(s) to find the facts/witnesses/physical and forensic evidence in order to see the event as you saw it. Since you will be away from the scene to meet with your attorney, the officers' quest will be made in your absence.

My advice would be to provide a short and direct account of the confrontation including those points which led you to believe you were in fear for your life after you've calmed down and been checked out by on scene EMS. Then decline to answer any questions without benefit of counsel.

There is an insightful article "Communicating Effectively with Police" at www.Firearmstactical.com which provides examples of such statements.

YMMV

[Jim March]

The danger is that you'll be too shaken up to do that properly.

[Preacherman]

Speaking as one who's BTDT on more than one occasion, Jim is right - you're often so shaken and/or angry that your judgement is definitely suspect when it comes to talking with those who have it in their power to arrest you. They aren't out to get you - they really do want to get the criminal, not the innocent victim - but if you sound off too loudly or too long, they can - and will - get the wrong idea about you, and take the easy way out, which is to lock you up, and look for evidence to justify their suspicions about you.

Massad Ayoob talks about this at great length in his LFI-1 course, and I can't recommend it too highly for ANYONE carrying CCW. He goes into the pre-, during and post-shooting phases of a defensive encounter, and devotes a lot of time to interacting with the police. Outstanding stuff, and very, very crucial to your long-term well-being and legal standing if you're ever in the unfortunate position of having to use a weapon for real. I haven't yet seen any video or book that provides as much real-world information as does his course. If you think this is a "plug" for LFI-1, you're right - go do it, no matter if you have to eat Kraft mac 'n cheese for six months in order to afford it! :D

That said, the basics are still as cited by previous posters. Say to the responding officers:

1. "I was in fear of my life, and was forced to defend myself."

2. "Witnesses are there, there and there."

3. "Evidence is there, there and there" (e.g. cartridge cases, dropped weapons or clothing, etc.).

4. "Please retain for evidence all the suspect's clothing and belongings" (to ensure that gunshot residue, etc. that may be in the BG's clothing can be forensically analyzed if necessary).

5. "Officers, you know that this is a very serious matter: therefore, I will make no further statement until I have consulted with my lawyer."

Also, have a good lawyer, with knowledge (and preferably experience) of self-defence situations, on retainer or at least within easy contact - carry his/her card, etc.

[El Tejon]

Preacher, ugh, Kraft mac??? I hope you'll advise some fruit with that!:D Ouch.

Second recommendation of LFI-1. Best bang for your buck. More covered on SD than 3 years of law school.

Preacher, I'd watch #5! I would think a prosecutor could make good use of "very serious matter."

What should I say? NOTHING!

[pax]

I know that my reaction to adrenalin overload includes being all but unable to keep my mouth shut. So I plan to say the following, over and over:

"This man tried to kill me ... I was afraid for my life! ... That's his knife right there ... he tried to kill me! ... I was afraid for my life! ... How far away was he? Close enough to kill me! ... I was afraid for my life! ... I'm too shook up to talk, please don't ask me anymore questions right now. I thought he was going to kill me! ... I want to call my lawyer so that I can tell you all about it when I've settled down a little bit ... I thought he was going to kill me!"

That's all I'm going to say, but I will say it over and over. Look at the actual information given.

He tried to kill me.
I was afraid for my life.
He had a weapon (there it is).
He was close enough to kill me.

I've just articulated that the BG met "ability, opportunity, and jeopardy" -- and done so in a memorable way. I haven't told the police anything except that -- not even how far away from me the criminal was. (He was close enough to kill me; that's all I know and that's all I'll say.)

The goal here is to make sure everyone on the scene hears you articulate, over and over, that you were afraid for your very life.

pax

I have never been hurt by anything I didn't say. -- Calvin Coolidge

[Greybeard]

Yep, "I feared for my life!" is a good one. Not a lawyer here, just a lowly CHL instructor.

FWIW, at first Instructor School back in '95, DPS lady lawyer did advise NOT to spill guts (no pun intended) to arriving LEOs.

Her recommended line "I AM TOO UPSET TO TALK RIGHT NOW." Then shut up, be prepared to get treated like a criminal and make the phone call(s). Her position was that the "I am too upset to talk right now." (1) would most definitely be true, (2) the LEOs SHOULD respect that, (3) it could prevent saying things that could be detrimental later.

In theory anyway, the line above may help keep a CHL person from alienating themself from the LEOs and appearing to be a criminal if the first words out of the mouth are "I'm not going to say any more until I get my lawyer." (Which is what one may want to say and might have to say if officers press the issue too hard.) "I'm too upset to talk right now." potentially a truthful, tactful substitute. YMMV

FWIW, I received a call on cell phone last year from a CHL student who had just been involved in a shooting. He came home one Friday evening and burglar was in his home. The cops were there when he called and he WAS upset - TOO upset to be blabbering to them like he was to me on the phone. Fortunately, in that case "the totallity of the circumstances" were so obvious to arriving LEOs that BGs were apprehended (trying to escape in van running on 3 flat tires from only 3 shots fired). A long story, but due to "in fear of life or serious injury" factor, CHL guy even got his gun back at the end of the evening. Talking promptly did not hurt that time, yet it could have been much, much different with other circumstances.

Once again, avoidance, if at all possible, an excellent alternative.

[Marko Kloos]

The guy involved is RoadRep and his first post is #7 on the first page. Read the whole thread. It WILL get your heart rate and BP way up there.

I am probably a jaded cynic, but the first thing it got "up there" for me was my BS detector. I think the guy is a skilled novelist. It reads like a story written by someone who imagined what a self-defense shoot would feel like. But like I said, I'm probably way too much of a cynic.

[12-34hom]

RoadReps account of his encounter with these thugs makes an excellent read to learn from.

His statement about 45 vs. 9mm was excellent.


12-34hom.

[Baba Louie]

You're gonna go downtown, no matter what. Thank the officers if you're treated civilly... you probably will be.

You'll need the lawyer, no matter what.

Bail money as well.

Reading RoadReps post in GT, plan on directing your attorney to pick your jury such that you will be actually "tried by your peers", not some others sympathetic to the plight of your poor victim. (poor boy. that man done him wrong. How's his mamma gonna get along widout him now?) Look what it got OJ!

Plan on your house/apt. being visited by the Police and all of your toys being taken and shown on TV/Newspaper, etc... "Killers Arsenal, update at 11:00".

Your kids life at school? "Why's daddy in jail mom? The kids are calling him a MURDERER!"

Wife's/GF's response? You read what happened to RR. Tense moments ahead I'm sure. Loss of income while you're out of action can affect all sorts of people all sorts of ways.

Civil Lawsuit?

Some attorney somewhere finds out you've got Homeowner's
Insurance and your victim's momma gonna be rich.

Your Homeowner's Ins. policy? Any Insurance agents here care to speculate on that claim and the results?

At least you'll be breathing and walking.

If it IS billed a clean Self-Defense and if there IS no law against your possesion of the weapon used (See recent NYC cases), I'd say in about 6 - 12 months, you could almost begin to talk about your experience thru the legal system jungle.

Hope the tigers are all on your side... even so, you'll probably have a scar or two to talk about over the campfire.

sigh

Life's a beach sometimes. But it beats being underground all the time.

Adios

[buzz_knox]

I also strongly recommend LFI-1.

Should the event arise, you need to identify yourself as the vicitm, identify evidence and witnesses, and then shut up.

1. "I was attacked by that man. I will press charges."

2. "His gun/knife is there. Those people saw what happened."

3. "Officer, I trust you understand how traumatic being attacked is. I will cooperate fully after I get a chance to speak with my attorney."

4. SHUT UP! The cop is not there to be your friend; he is there to investigate the death of a human being and you are the prime suspect in a homicide. It's only later that it'll determined whether it's justifiable or not.

[Edward429451]

I think RR's story rings true. He wasn't bragging, he spoke in the third person about it, and it sounds very somberly realistic. A real eye opener to say the least.

Failure drills. I'm going to start doing those. I practice double taps and head shots but not together as a failure to stop drill.

Everybody have the talk with their SO about running to safety if the ballon goes up? I did.

Don't look at the corpse beyond looking for movement sounded like good advice to me. It'd be traumatizing enough knowing you shot them even without that picture in your head.

Glad he made it out ok.