Teacher accidentally brings loaded gun to school (*cough* IDIOT *cough*)


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Yohan
March 5, 2003, 08:54 PM
North Briefs: 3/4/03

Tuesday, March 04, 2003






SHALER AREA: Teacher's gun a 'mistake'

Shaler Police Chief Jeff Gally said yesterday that a Shaler Area School District teacher made an honest mistake and unwittingly brought a loaded handgun to school in a gym bag.

Nevertheless, Gally said, in all likelihood a misdemeanor charge of possessing a weapon on school property will be filed later this week.

Gally said teacher Anthony Sarkis had used a gym bag to transport his .380-caliber semiautomatic handgun to a range for target practice. He forgot to take the gun out before putting books in the bag and carrying it to school.

Gally said Sarkis has been cooperative and is "very upset" about the incident. He has a valid permit to carry the weapon.


http://www.post-gazette.com/neigh_north/20030304nburbs0304p9.asp

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Standing Wolf
March 5, 2003, 09:14 PM
See what happens when you don't clean your guns as soon as you come home from the range?

Matthew Courtney
March 5, 2003, 09:36 PM
I think all teachers should be allowed to carry guns at school. If we can't trust teachers with firearms, why are we trusting them to educate our children?

Greybeard
March 5, 2003, 09:39 PM
I went to the link to see what state this happened in. (PA) The electronic news rag made this teacher/gun story a higher priority than article about a passenger KILLED due to drunk driver. :fire:

redneck
March 5, 2003, 10:04 PM
How'd he get caught?

TearsOfRage
March 5, 2003, 11:17 PM
http://www.post-gazette.com/neigh_north/20030305gunteach0305p5.asp

45R
March 6, 2003, 11:44 AM
:banghead:

Thats pretty irresponsible. He know better than that as a teacher. What if the kids have gotten ahold of his .380!! He should always have his firearms secured. He's very lucky that his lapse of better judgement was not a cause of someone getting hurt.

BerettaNut92
March 6, 2003, 11:47 AM
I'm afraid of this happening myself. I always tend to forget something in my bags--gun, ammo, sometimes I almost drive home with the holster still on :eek:

45R
March 6, 2003, 12:50 PM
SKunk-
I have so many bags that I'd be worry about leaving a peice in a bag and bringing it to the office. So I have 2 bags for guns and thats it. One is designated "Tactical Black"


45R

JohnRov
March 6, 2003, 01:04 PM
Being very close to this story (my fiance works there and we know him) I have mixed emotions. It was extremely stupid of him to leave it in his bag. The news coverage was worse though, completely sensationalized when they had very little solid info to report (Alan Jennings had the channel 11 story I saw). Just soundbite after soundbite of kids saying how they are scared to go to school now, not one conceding it could have been an honest mistake. Apparently he left the bag in the teachers' lounge after school when he went down to the gym to work out. Another teacher opened the bag to see whose it was and saw the gun and some form of ID. I know it was extremely stupid to do, but maybe the other teacher could have gave him some benefit of the doubt and asked him about it before turning him in.

Jack19
March 6, 2003, 01:07 PM
It doesn't say how the weapon was found. I can't imagine that he turned himself in.

JohnRov
March 6, 2003, 01:16 PM
Here's the article that says how the gun was found:

http://www.post-gazette.com/neigh_north/20030305gunteach0305p5.asp

Blackcloud6
March 6, 2003, 01:43 PM
This sounds like one of those "no harm - no foul" incidents that everyone is makeing too much to do about. The principal should have just told him to take it home and not do it again. The notion that he broke the law proves that the law is stupid.

Mastrogiacomo
March 6, 2003, 01:50 PM
I was a student in Special Education, later a teacher within Special Education. There's a lot of teachers that are plain stupid -- in addition to being biased, insensitve and ignorant. It's bad enough they teach the learning disabled -- I wouldn't want them carrying guns in school.:scrutiny:

Open Carry
March 6, 2003, 02:13 PM
Flash-forward: Teacher accidentally carries book "In the Gravest Extreme" to school. "Someone could have found that book, read it, and gone out and got killed", one outraged student said.

Probably won't happen. Future students will not be able to read.

JohnRov
March 6, 2003, 02:28 PM
@Matt
I was a student in Special Education, later a teacher within Special Education. There's a lot of teachers that are plain stupid -- in addition to being biased, insensitve and ignorant. It's bad enough they teach the learning disabled -- I wouldn't want them carrying guns in school.



This applies to people outside the teaching profession as well. Being smart isn't any kind of prereq for having a CCW permit.

tetchaje1
March 6, 2003, 02:43 PM
Here in Utah that is legal if the school is funded with public money. The thing that chaps me is that he let other people find out about it.

Concealed means concealed. If you don't have a permit, don't put a gun in something that gets taken places.

Simple.

JohnRov
March 6, 2003, 02:48 PM
Yeah, you are right, but he apparently forgot it was in his bag. Two other teachers opened his bag, which was shut, and looked in it and found the gun.

blades67
March 6, 2003, 02:54 PM
I think all teachers should be allowed to carry guns at school. If we can't trust teachers with firearms, why are we trusting them to educate our children?

What makes you think I trust all teachers? Between the ones that are molesting the kids and the spineless liberal pantiewastes that are telling soldier's kids that anyone supporting Pres. Bush is immoral, who's to be trusted?:barf:

TarpleyG
March 6, 2003, 02:58 PM
in all likelihood a misdemeanor charge of possessing a weapon on school property will be filed later this week
Isn't this a felony in some states?

GT

JohnRov
March 6, 2003, 03:01 PM
I thought the "no guns near schools" law was a federal law and applied the same to all states. Since this happened I've been trying to find out all the laws but it is a fairly frustrating endeavor.

UnknownSailor
March 6, 2003, 03:24 PM
The Federal school zone exclusion was thrown out as un-Constitutional, in a suit against the Brady Bill. I want to say Sherrif Mack's suit, but I'm not 100% sure.

Apple a Day
March 6, 2003, 04:17 PM
Blades67,
I am a teacher. So which are you calling me: a child molester or a "spineless liberal pantiewaste"? I suggest you check your target(s) before you shoot your mouth off.
I am a gun owner, CCL holder, and an RKBA activist with the VCDL. Teachers also have the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. There's no clause in the second amendment which says "except teachers". We don't need your permission or anyone else's to excersize our rights.

Matthew Courtney
March 6, 2003, 04:45 PM
In April, 1995 the Federal Firearm Free School Zone Act of 1990 was struck down as Un-constitutional by the Supreme Court (U.S. v Lopez).

Congress promptly passed the Federal Firearm Free School Zone Act of 1996. The 1996 act has not been challenged in court because it is seldom enforced.

State laws govern carry at schools and vary widely.

Mastrogiacomo
March 6, 2003, 05:29 PM
I'm not suggesting that teachers don't have a right to bear arms, but keep them at home, not in your lunch box. I'm saying that I wouldn't want some John Silber elitist snob teaching my kids, much less bringing handguns into the schools. I've met some wonderful teachers as an LD student, and yes I know there are some great people out there in education. I've been fortunate to have a few and I remember each and every one by name. But I also had the bad luck to meet some true horror stories that made my hair stand on end. How the Christ did these people get hired, and why are teaching children with special needs if they don't like these kids to begin with? If the students' self-esteem wasn't low enough already, do they really need to be condesended to by these jerks? Bottom line is it's school -- not your home on the range. :scrutiny: Just because someone is a teacher doesn't make them any better than a construction worker or the guy pumping your gas in the morning. I don't trust people simply because of their profession. I trust them because they've earned it. If someone's "forgetting" they have a gun in their bag, they're not playing with a full deck. What if another student had found it first and used it on another classmate?

seeker_two
March 6, 2003, 05:54 PM
Two teachers looked inside the bag, saw the gun and took it to the principal's office.

And when will the two teachers be charged w/ attempted theft? :fire:

"He had no bad intentions with it, there was no hidden agenda. He made a mistake," Gally said Monday, describing Sarkis as well respected in the community.
But Lee noted yesterday his primary interest was the safety of students and staff and it would defy reason and logic not to consistently enforce district policies.

Goes to show you---Zero Tolerance = Zero Rights + Zero Brains. And, if Zero Tolerance is so good, why DO we need high-dollar administrators anyway? With the absence of fair judgement for each case, a monkey & two teacher's aids would be enough to manage a school...:banghead:

JohnRov
March 13, 2003, 11:55 AM
This case was tossed out by the judge earlier today.

Added link to story:
http://www.post-gazette.com/breaking/20030313shalerp5.asp

tetchaje1
March 13, 2003, 12:18 PM
Mastrogiacomo said:
I'm not suggesting that teachers don't have a right to bear arms, but keep them at home, not in your lunch box. I'm saying that I wouldn't want some John Silber elitist snob teaching my kids, much less bringing handguns into the schools.


By the same argument, why do you need a gun when you go to the bank, or to the ballet, or out to dinner with your kids? I think that teachers have every right as anyone else to carry a gun -- even moreso with the battlegrounds that some of our schools have become -- but that they should have a CC permit and always have the gun concealed on their person. A lot fewer people would have died at Columbine if one or more of the teachers were packing...

KP95DAO
March 13, 2003, 01:14 PM
Mastrogiacomo posted:
"What if another student had found it first and used it on another classmate."

What ever happened to that old fashioned idea of not messing with something that isn't yours? What if the teacher brought a steak knife and someone misused it? Oh yeah, I forgot, that would probably be classified a prohibited weapon also.

We should not be responsible for the criminal behavior of others.

mrt
March 13, 2003, 01:37 PM
us country hicks don't blink an eye when we see g-u-n-s...like most city slickers...
It used to be no big deal to bring a gun to school...heck my boss had a show and tell with his SG at school.

hondo68
March 13, 2003, 02:10 PM
Mastrogiacomo: What if another student had found it (pistol) first and used it on another classmate? What if a student found a BOOK and used it on another classmate? Maybe we should ban books at school?:neener: Would you feel any better if this imaginary "evil student" beat his victim to death with a baseball bat or book?

"A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed." - Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

Al Norris
March 13, 2003, 09:45 PM
JohnRov, I'm glad to see that the judge dismissed the charges. Now if the guy can get his job back!

Who is this Mastrogiacomo dude? Is he one of the resident liberals here? No offense meant if you aren't, it's just that your little tirade sure sounded way left!

These kinds of things just prove to me that common sense, isn't. If we were allowed to carry, some teachers would, others wouldn't. Kinda like society in real life!

A few of us grew up with guns literally laying around all over the house. We got our first rifles almost before we could walk. Kinda about the same time we got baseball mits - Ya just never knew when a ball game would start up...right in the middle of hunting rabbits sometimes!

And before someone says it, no. I grew up in Long Beach, Calif. It was a different world 40-50 years ago.

Pward
March 14, 2003, 09:40 AM
Two teachers looked inside the bag, saw the gun and took it to the principal's office.

Why were they going through someone's backback to begin with??:confused: :mad:

tetchaje1
March 14, 2003, 11:40 AM
Why were they going through someone's backback to begin with??


I was thinking the same thing myself.

Personally, I wouldn't want to be working in some place where I knew my coworkers were going to be rifling through my stuff...

JohnRov
March 14, 2003, 11:42 AM
According to the story, he left the bag on another teacher's desk and she opened it to see whose it was.

Goet
March 20, 2003, 11:33 PM
I'm in a school every day and carry 100% of the time. I would consider it negligent to NOT have one with me. What if something did happen and I wasn't prepared?

That being said, I went through someone's purse the other day. It had been sitting in the lounge for several hours unattended. I popped open the wallet inside and within a minute had it stuffed in that teacher's mail slot.



Had I seen a firearm inside the purse, I probably would have only silently compared it to the one in my pocket.


Course, I'm biased towards MY P32. :D

Yohan
March 20, 2003, 11:49 PM
I agree whole heartedly with Mastrogiacomo. What ever happend to the responsibility that comes with owning a gun? What if a student had stolen the gun? Before you bring up the "oh- students shouldn't go through the bag" argument- you have to realize that it happens, as is life. The teacher should have been punished for being stupid enough to leave a gun inside a duffel bag. :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :confused: (getting dizzy from the head banging)

Goet
March 21, 2003, 12:11 AM
I'm less of a '"oh- students shouldn't go through the bag" argument' and more of a "what has happened to our society that we need to fear kids and guns in the same room?"

:(


So, do you think it would fly in school if I showed up to class open carrying my .45?

Wayne D
March 21, 2003, 04:11 PM
I didn’t see anything in the article to indicate that the gun was loaded or that there was any ammo in the backpack with it. And I am fairly sure that if the gun was loaded the media would have made a big deal out of the fact. The fact that they don’t mention it at all indicates that it was probably unloaded and no ammo was with it. And that just makes the whole thing seem that much more stupid.:rolleyes:

Mastrogiacomo
March 21, 2003, 04:32 PM
Christ almighty...why does everyone assume, this "dude" is a man? Sorry if my "liberal" point of view pisses people off, and you think teachers have a right to blow anyone away if they feel "threatened." Sorry if kids are kids and will look into other people's bags -- by the way books haven't killed anyone yet but a few Greek tragedies damn near killed me.:neener: The bottom line is no one has the right to bring a weapon into a school and sorry if that pisses you off too. Schools should be more wise to security and I don't care about their arguements about money -- they have it and just like the government, they like to lie about it but they have it. There's plenty of teachers I would have loved to blown away -- students included for the torment they put me through as a kid -- but my misery in school isn't an excuse for bringing a weapon in class. Teachers, many of whom aren't much brighter than people that post here, or those that pump gas, wait on tables, work at a gym, work at CVS, whatever -- are not some high and mighty few that should be allowed to bring whatever they want to class, whenever they feel like it. Students can't. What makes teachers so special? You want to bring a gun to work people? Open your own firing range.:rolleyes: Incidently, in case you're wondering, no I don't bring a gun to the theatre: Tango, Ballet or even to Chinatown at night-- but then I guess this "dude" likes to live dangerously. After all, I'm a Bostonion.:cool:

Climb14er
March 21, 2003, 04:47 PM
the teacher...and I feel bad for him.

MORON.

cordex
March 21, 2003, 05:06 PM
Mastrogiacomo,
Sorry if my "liberal" point of view pisses people off
Nothing to do with liberalism. Just statism.
and you think teachers have a right to blow anyone away if they feel "threatened."
Teachers have no greater right to "blow anyone away if they feel 'threatened'" than you or I do. No one has claimed otherwise. Strawman argument.
The bottom line is no one has the right to bring a weapon into a school and sorry if that pisses you off too.
So ... what is a weapon? Does a pocketknife count? How about sports equipment? I know quite a few deadly devices in shop class ... do they count? Or are you just concerned with firearms?
Schools should be more wise to security and I don't care about their arguements about money -- they have it and just like the government, they like to lie about it but they have it.
Sorry, but you are absolutely wrong. Maybe your school had plenty of money, but I know for a fact that my highschool did not (despite being in an upper-middle class area).
There's plenty of teachers I would have loved to blown away -- students included for the torment they put me through as a kid -- but my misery in school isn't an excuse for bringing a weapon in class.
And here is the true base of your fear.
You feel that you - or the great unwashed masses - would not have been, or are not currently capable of being responsible with a firearm in certain locations, thus and therefore there should be a law against it. You echo the cry of statists everywhere.
Bringing a weapon into a class (as a teacher or a student, though I'm rather certain this article referred to a teacher) is an absolutely morally neutral event. No one is harmed by it. How that weapon is used is a completely different manner.
Teachers, many of whom aren't much brighter than people that post here, or those that pump gas, wait on tables, work at a gym, work at CVS, whatever -- are not some high and mighty few that should be allowed to bring whatever they want to class, whenever they feel like it.
Er ... I was with you right up to the "high and mighty few" bit. The difference is I don't believe you have to be a part of a "high and mighty few" to be allowed to carry a firearm. But that's jut me.
By the way, what makes the cop who barely passed high school and can barely remember which end of his gun the bullet comes out of part of your "high and mighty few"?
You want to bring a gun to work people? Open your own firing range.
I'd love to open a firing range, but right now I work in technology. Flying bullets and server racks don't mix well (or rather, they mix too well). Still bring a couple guns to work. So does my boss, so I think it's okay.
Incidently, in case you're wondering, no I don't bring a gun to the theatre: Tango, Ballet or even to Chinatown at night-- but then I guess this "dude" likes to live dangerously.
That is your choice and I respect it.
Can you have the same respect for my choice?

seeker_two
March 21, 2003, 05:47 PM
Christ almighty...why does everyone assume, this "dude" is a man?

Gally said teacher ANTHONY SARKIS...

This would be my first clue...:scrutiny:

Quartus
March 21, 2003, 06:02 PM
That, and the comment from JohnRov who said, "my fiancee works there and we know him". Details, details. :rolleyes:


forgot it was there, and covered it with books before taking it to school.



Hmmmmmm. That doesn't sound like the other teacher found the gun when she "just opened" the bag. There was some rummaging going on. Probably looking for ID.

tetchaje1
March 21, 2003, 07:17 PM
The bottom line is no one has the right to bring a weapon into a school and sorry if that pisses you off too.

:rolleyes:

I have carried my gun to school every single day for 14 months now (since I got my permit) and I haven't blown anybody away -- even when I got a 28 out of 80 on one of my assignments.

Maybe the rest of us just have more self control than you think we do...

Perhaps more respect is needed on your part for me exercising my right of self-defense even when at school.

Mastrogiacomo
March 21, 2003, 08:27 PM
If you bring your guns to school, you obviously don't live in Massachusetts. I can't bring mine to school -- as a teacher -- because it's a weapon, just like poket knives, certain nail files, or anything else the school feels is dangerous. Although, I could say screw that and take it with me in my luch box BUT if I get caught... as a teacher -- there goes the job, and as a student -- time to find a new school. When I went to night school, I wasn't allowed to bring a gun without permission from the school. If you're from a state that doesn't require permission from anyone to carry a weapon, power to you, but I have to abide by the law if I'm going to keep my gun and permit.

If I had a job, I wouldn't be able to carry concealed without my employer's permission unless, there's nothing in the contact that says I can't. Yet, given that my permit doesn't allowed for concealed carry -- who cares? Lastly, if anyone thinks schools don't have money -- check what the president of a college makes -- or what school heads earn. No pathetic teacher pay there. By the way, I'm assuming this teacher is proud of himself for taking a gun to school? No one seems to think he did the wrong thing -- why not carry them in hospitals as well? Just follow the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy. With all that goes on in the city of Boston, I think emergency doctors should be allowed to pack an Uzi. :rolleyes:

Kcustom45
March 21, 2003, 11:29 PM
why not carry them in hospitals as well?
I have carried into a hospital before.

If you don't want to carry a gun with you to certain places that's fine, but as long as its legal you have to respect my choice to do so.

tetchaje1
March 22, 2003, 01:54 AM
If you bring your guns to school, you obviously don't live in Massachusetts.

Mastrogiacomo,
You never mentioned this caveat when you stated this:

The bottom line is no one has the right to bring a weapon into a school and sorry if that pisses you off too.

Nobody here is suggesting that anybody do anything that violates state law. There is a principle that people are talking about here (for those who feel that teachers should be able to defend themselves on school grounds, but who live in states that prohibit school carry), and then there are people, like myself, who live in states where carry on school grounds is legal.

If the law says you can't carry there, then don't carry. Otherwise, don't say that I "don't have the right to bring a weapon into a school" if it is perfectly legal and prudent for me to do so.

Oh, and I am sure that it will chap you to know that I have carried my gun into many hospitals, sporting events, state buildings, etc... :evil: (all legal in Utah...)

cordex
March 22, 2003, 07:50 AM
Lastly, if anyone thinks schools don't have money -- check what the president of a college makes -- or what school heads earn. No pathetic teacher pay there.
Sorry, I was under the impression we were discussing public primary schools. My mistake.
By the way, I'm assuming this teacher is proud of himself for taking a gun to school?
Did you read the original post?
For your reading pleasure:
Gally said Sarkis has been cooperative and is "very upset" about the incident.
"Very upset" doesn't imply to me "proud of himself".
No one seems to think he did the wrong thing -- why not carry them in hospitals as well?
Sure. I've been known to carry into hospitals before. Why not?

Quartus
March 23, 2003, 03:59 PM
The bottom line is no one has the right to bring a weapon into a school

Yes we do. And that right is recognized in the 2nd Amendment. (Not GRANTED - recognized.)


It's true that there are many laws against it, but it is the laws which are invalid, not the right.

Yes, and hospitals, too.


:confused: Why on earth should places of healing and learning be declared free fire zones for any crackpot with a gun? Why would you NOT want honest, capable citizens to have the means of resisting mass murderers in those particular places?

:confused:

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