I like cheap ammo...so keep that in mind. One question though, what is the recoil of the 9mm M48 Yugo Mausers like? 12ga?
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January 23, 2005, 08:18 PM
I have never shot a boar and I'm not a hunter, BUT I wouldn't with the 7.62x39. How much does a boar weigh, 3 or 4 hundred pounds? With heavy bones and a lotta fat? And tusks that can tear your guts open? You need something bigger. 8mm lead soft point sounds more like it.
January 23, 2005, 08:18 PM
8mm turk surplus isn't bad, but a 200 gr. soft point might have more recoil...
probally 12ga birdshot level recoil for the turk...
for hunting i would use the mauser, a well placed shot with a good bullet would drop an average pig easily...
January 23, 2005, 08:26 PM
Always use enough rifle ;)
The full house 8mm loads recoil fairly hard, though I would put it less than a 12 guage.
January 23, 2005, 08:30 PM
I raised the domestic type several years ago, so I have a little bit of an idea how pigs will react. (And yes, I know that comparing domestic pigs to wild ones is like comparing a labrador to a coyote)
I've talked to several buddies that put wild pigs down with .30-30's, and even .44 mags, so the 7.62x39 should be fine. Also, on behalf of the weapon itself, the SKS offers toughness, reliability, quick followup shots, and larger mag capacity.
I do have both, and the juice of the 8mm would be nice, but the idea of jacking a bolt rifle for reload, while under the gun of a charging pig, is not at all desireable to me.
January 23, 2005, 08:30 PM
You guys really think a 7.62x39 FMJ wouldn't penetrate enough? How available is the 8mm ammo?
January 23, 2005, 08:48 PM
i'd say 7.62x39 fmj would probally punch all the way through, but without good shot placement won't drop it right there...
i wouldn't use fmj to hunt anything bigger than a yote'...
8mm SP loads are available pretty much everywhere...
January 23, 2005, 08:53 PM
Well, I went pig hunting with a SKS and a .45 on my belt. These were domesticated pigs that were loose for a few months before the guy said just shoot them. Never seen one, but the neighbor did pull down a 300+ pounder with a bow. Course, he was in a tree stand.
I would rather have a few shots with the SKS than onme with an 8mm.
January 23, 2005, 08:55 PM
Hmmmm....what about hollow point ammo?
Does anyone know where to buy an SKS with the dragunov stock on it? I've seen it before on the net but cant find their sight now.
January 23, 2005, 09:03 PM
You can buy an SKS and then put the dragunov stock on it, I've never seen one for sale with one on it already except maybe at a gunshow. Locally here you can get 8mm at any gunstore, CTD has several different kinds of it. I've hunted them before with a .44 mag lever gun and a .300 WM, both work quite well :D
January 23, 2005, 09:17 PM
You're supposed to use a spear! :evil:
January 23, 2005, 09:25 PM
I think it kind of depends on how big the pigs are, and how far away. If they're 100-150lbs at 75-100 yards, the SKS with soft point or HP ammo will probably suffice.
If it's a giant 350 pounder at 200yards, definitely the 8mm.
Like Cracked Butt said, always use enough rifle. Too much is way better than not enough.
The recoil on centerfire rifles seems sharper to me than a 12GA. The shotgun seems to have more oomph, but less snap. Not worse, but slightly different. Sorry if that's absolute gibberish. :confused: Anyway, if you can handle one, I'm sure you can handle the other.
Good luck bagging the bacon,
January 23, 2005, 09:28 PM
Dev Null.........a spear? Why don't I just tie a 3 inch pocket knife on the end of a stick and charge a 400 pound animal with tusks.....
Oh wait...you already said that.
January 23, 2005, 09:37 PM
Go get yourself a hakim. Its a 10-rd 7.92x57mm semi-auto and offers the punch of the 8m mauser round with the follow up of a semi-auto. Actually, aftermarket custom made 25-rd mags are available as well.
January 23, 2005, 09:53 PM
I own a Yugo mauser (M48). It isn't as refined as a Swede or the Czech, but it came to me pristine.
I'd go with the 8mm, specifically euro-manufactured 8x57, as US-manufactured 8x57 is downloaded.
S&B produces a 196gr softpoint that is a thumper:
BTW, mine came with a bayonet, so if things get a bit frisky, you can fix bayonets & go blade vs tusk.
January 23, 2005, 11:10 PM
IIRC, the traditional (ie, Dark Ages) English boar spear was about 12-15 feet long with a foot-long cross bar 1/3 of the way up to keep the brute from charging his way the length of the shaft and taking you with him. :what:
Me, I'm thinking 45-70. :D
Best of luck. Tell us how you do.
- 0 -
January 23, 2005, 11:35 PM
Use a Lee Enfield with 180grn RNSPs. Lots more hit than a SKS, way faster than any Mauser based rifle. A 12ga double with slugs might be a contender as well. Most African dangerous game hunters liked double rifles for the "instant" second shot. They felt that the quick second shot was more valuable than the slower third or fourth shot that you might not live long enough to use.
January 24, 2005, 12:36 AM
Two very important words: "Sectional" and "density".
I'll take the 8mm, please.
January 24, 2005, 12:43 AM
Most African dangerous game hunters liked double rifles for the "instant" second shot. They felt that the quick second shot was more valuable than the slower third or fourth shot that you might not live long enough to use.
By the same token, those who didn't use double rifles pretty much used mauser 98s and not enfields. :neener:
Couldn't help myself :D
January 24, 2005, 01:10 AM
Those who didn't use double rifles pretty much used mauser 98s and not enfields. That's mostly because nobody bothered to make a Lee Enfield based magnum sporter. BSA did make a .405 version of the LE, but they really had no economic incentive to get deeply into the sporting arms market as they had a very comfortable Gov't. contract for military rifles. They were quite happy to make whatever sporting rifles they could from the standard LE action without investing in the tooling to make bigger, stronger versions. The Lee Enfield sporters were actually very popular IN THE CALIBERS THEY WERE OFFERED IN, and in the "envelope" in which those calibers were effective. In terms of African hunting and game, the .303 is good for light game and "pot shooting", but hardly enough for the "dangerous" game.
The Lee action rifles were developed as military rifles and were made to be just strong "enough" for standard service ammunition. The military designers gave no thought to their possible use for sport shooting or their suitability for conversion to civilian calibers. The argument that the Mauser is "better" because it is "stronger" could also be turned around to argue that the Mauser is, in fact, "over designed". The SMLE took 22 years to refine, it went on to serve 60 years in frontline service. The Mauser took 37 years to 'refine' and was being traded off to 2nd line units and cut up for scrap after barely 47 years active service.
January 24, 2005, 01:29 AM
I know you say you like cheap ammo, but turk 8mm is not what you want to hunt with. The pucker factor of a follow up shot going "CLICK" not "BOOM" can't really be described in words. I wouldn't try boar with only a 147gr FMJ anyway.
Find yourself some S&B 8mm. Cabela's has it bulk here: Bulk S&B 8mm (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jhtml?id=0024228215332a&navAction=jump&navCount=1&indexId=cat20839&podId=0024228&catalogCode=IF&parentId=cat20839&parentType=index&rid=&cmCat=MainCatcat20712&hasJS=true)
and single boxes here: S&B 8mm single boxes (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jhtml?id=0012689210827a&navAction=jump&navCount=1&indexId=cat20839&podId=0012689&catalogCode=XE&parentId=cat20839&parentType=index&rid=&cmCat=MainCatcat20712&hasJS=true)
If you get the single box, make sure to get the 8x57 NOT 8x57JR, JR is rimmed and won't work... the 196 gr soft point will punch a nice hole in swine, makes a hell of a mess on PA deer. Recoil is no worse than an average 30-06 load.
I wouldn't trust the SKS anywhere past "30-30 yardage" for a couple of reasons I'll second the 12 gauge slugs or 45/70 personally. I'd rather one big hole than a bunch of smaller ones. :D :D
January 24, 2005, 02:51 AM
I always love pokin' a stick in the Enfield hive :D
Nothing wrong with them, in fact the next gun I'm going to order (hopefully next week) will be a No.4.
January 24, 2005, 03:43 AM
That's mostly because nobody bothered to make a Lee Enfield based magnum sporter.
I always thought it had more to do with the feeding system. The controlled round feeding system will feed a round in any position. And if you have a brain fart you can't get the infamous doulbe cartridge jam. But it might have been as you said. I didn't do much research in the matter. Africa is too hot, even for this Southern boy. :D
As to the original question, I would take the 8mm. If I had to choose between too much gun and too little, I'll take too much.
January 24, 2005, 04:22 AM
If anybody HAD wanted to make a Lee based magnum sized rifle, they could have easily made it controlled feed like the Mauser. However, consider the military Lee Enfield's reputation for speed. The record is 38 aimed shots in 60 seconds, all in a 12" circle at 300 yards. Then there are the German troops who thought they were under fire from massed machine guns. The LE feeding system certainly worked well in "high stress" situations didn't it? :D
January 24, 2005, 06:29 AM
we're talkin pigs here not rhinos. either rifle will work fine. i prefer the sks. i've killed them with 22mag, 357,41mag ,44mag, 223, 243 & 308. shoot em in the right spot. i once caught a 40lb wild pig in a trout net, now thats a rodeo. sb
January 24, 2005, 08:41 AM
However, consider the military Lee Enfield's reputation for speed. The record is 38 aimed shots in 60 seconds, all in a 12" circle at 300 yards.
I know of the oft hailed Enfield speed. How could I not? Seems every thread I open has someone talking about it, regardless of the actual topic. :neener: But speed is no good if there is no boom, neh? I chances of not being able to feed a round because of the push feed system aren't too high. But if you ARE the victim of a Murphy then the lion isn't going to say "well, try again tomorrow kid", and saunter back into the bush.
Then there are the German troops who thought they were under fire from massed machine guns. The LE feeding system certainly worked well in "high stress" situations didn't it?
That example doesn't prove that there were no feeding mishaps. If one, two or fifteen guys had feeding problems, there are hundreds of other fellows behind you. The Germans wouldn't notice a few missin' rounds. There might not have been a push feed related jam/foul up in the whole war. But I've seen no evidence either way. And there is one slight difference. If a Hun knocked you over, you wouldn't try to work your rifle. You'd try to beat him to death with it or wrestle 'im. But that isn't a great option with a lion. The rifle MUST feed, if you want to come home with everything you left with.
I don't know how many people, if any, were mauled because they used a push feed. Maybe none. If so, great! I don't worship the Mauser design. It is like anything, it has weaknesses. Tote your Enfield into the bush. I'll take a Mauser though, if I ever do decide to do something nutty like hunt an Oliphaunt. (Now where can I get a good deal on an Enfield? I need to relieve myself of some money. :D)
January 24, 2005, 09:21 AM
Not to support the hijack of a perfectly good thread into an Enfield-v-Mauser shouting match, but...
Based on the SMLE/No4 'snap-over-looking' extractor design, I always thought that my Enfields were push feed. I said so on a number of occasions. Nobody told me I was wrong. But one day at the range, I was in the middle of working the bolt on a No4Mk1, going into battery but only about halfway thru the forward stroke, when they called a cease fire. I instinctively reversed direction on the bolt, popped out the cartridge, cleared the mag, and went on my merry way. No big deal - I do this all the time with my Mausers.
It was only later that day that I realized what I had done - that the Enfield had acted like a CRF design. So that evening I took a handful of shells and proceeded to spend about an hour trying to get the No4Mk1 to push-feed instead of CRF. I couldn't. Every single time, that big ol' 303R rim just slid right up under that extractor as the cartridge released from the magazine, just like Peter Paul Mauser's best effort. Now, to be fair, I have to admit that I didn't try to cycle the action upside-down to see if it would pass the 'real' CRF test. But I was impressed that it did NOT seem to suffer from the most common of push-feed issues, namely the short-stroke double feed.
Of course, my Mauser 95's 109-year-old extractor will also do the impossible and snap over the rim of a cartridge dropped into the receiver. So much for the CRF not supporting emergency non-mag-fed loading...
January 24, 2005, 10:43 AM
Interesting results RB. I admit, I've not much experiance with the Enfield. I've never noticed that before. Never looked, really. I'll have to bum an Enfield off someone and try that.
January 24, 2005, 12:59 PM
I'd go with the 8mm, especially if you are wanting to use cheap ammo. More power, heavier bullets. Of course it would be better.
That said, there's nothing wrong with using the SKS, if you are selective about shot placement, keep it short range, keep it to 100lb animals or less (they're better eating anyway), and use a quality soft point. If you start going after 300lb boars, taking long shots, and/or hitting them in the wrong place, then you're definitely asking for trouble.
Both are okay, the 8mm is better, the SKS has more limitations but will still work fine if used within it's limitations.
January 24, 2005, 05:35 PM
Not that I want to interrupt here, but Enfield is NOT a consideration here. We're talking about $100 to $175 rifles here.
January 24, 2005, 05:43 PM
Where would the POA on a boar be? If he's sideways to you, would you aim at the shoulder, or behind the shoulder for a heart/lung shot? Not being a hunter, I'd guess the shoulder. If you break that it should pin him down and he wouldn't be able to charge you, correct? If he's facing you, he's not tall enough to aim under the head for a heart/lung shot. You'd have to hit him between the eyes it seems to me.
January 24, 2005, 11:43 PM
Not that I want to interrupt here, but Enfield is NOT a consideration here. We're talking about $100 to $175 rifles here. I bought my first Enfield a year ago for $200, and my last two Enfields were bought within the last six months for less than $150. My Norinco SKS cost more than either of these two...
Just a data point.
January 25, 2005, 12:35 AM
On an offhand note, talking of the Enfield rifle and large dangerous game, I believe it was Frederick Selous who killed pretty much everything that walked on the continent of Africa with his trusty .303.
January 25, 2005, 06:56 AM
Regardless of which rifle you pick, you need to shoot it untl you can consistantly keep your shots on a six inch paper plate. If you can do that at 100 yards, that's your range (or less) for hunting.
Frankly, neither choice is very good - you'll have to fight crappy sights and heavy trigger pulls with both, though IME, the SKS can be found with OK triggers. The Mausers tend to have heavy triggers and terrible sights, though they clean up very well.
I think you'd be much better off saving some more money and getting a .30-30 or a Savage 110 with the Accu-trigger and a scope.
Don't forget to practice. :)
January 25, 2005, 02:28 PM
I tested two of my rifles last night by loading the magazines and then holding them upside down while working the bolt. Both fed flawlessly.
January 25, 2005, 05:37 PM
I tested two of my rifles last night by loading the magazines and then holding them upside down while working the bolt. Both fed flawlessly. Hoo-AHHHH! :D
January 27, 2005, 04:42 PM
A friend of mine who owns a Magazine Lee Metford with the early 8 round straight magazine and a New Zealand Carbine with 6 round magazine just tested this and both rifles work perfectly at any angle.
I'm seeing LEs for the same money or less than Mausers. Ammo is not super common, but still readily available enough to be economical. I still say an LE with a 180grn SP is the best choice for hogs.
January 28, 2005, 09:56 AM
There was an Enfield up around here for about 180 bucks. Pretty good condition and I loved the bolt on it, but that .303 ammo. Where the hell are you gonna find ammo like that in west Texas, where the closest ammo store is the grocer.
I've seen 30-30
and I think even 7.62*39....
haven't seen 8mm mauser, but Walmart carries it.
Never seen .303.
January 28, 2005, 12:18 PM
Most large sporting goods stores (Galyans, Academy, etc.) carry it. Every gun store I've ever been in carried it. I buy most of mine via the Internet (if I'm buying ammo at all), and I certainly buy my 303R bullets-n-brass via the Internet so that I can load my own.
Not to pick on anyone here (certainly not you, alduro), but this kind of question always puzzles me. How can it be that ammo availability at WalMart or the local grocery store/quickie mart would be such a bloody issue to anyone hunting within the continental US? If I pack the rifle to go hunting, I pack some ammo to go with it (so long as I'm not flying) - it's a natural and normal thing to do. Heck, MidwayUSA or CheaperThanDirt or Natchez Shooting Supply will deliver CASES of just about flavor of any caliber ever chambered to anywhere in the US within four days of placing the order via phone or Internet. All I have to do is remember to bring some with me, or have it delivered to wherever I'm gonna be.
Moreover, if I'm going hunting chances are that I've chosen my specific ammo in advance so that I can match it to the intended game. So why would I want to (not have to - want to) rely upon whatever I can scrounge up locally for my hunting ammo?
January 28, 2005, 08:55 PM
yeah, id go with the 8mm,
1. the gun is cheaper
2. the ammo is cheaper
3. the round is more powerfull.
January 30, 2005, 05:19 PM
It's not as if you will run out of ammo hunting, but what if the hunting goes crappy and you decide, aw heck, lets just shoot some cans. (Happens a lot)...20 rounds of ammo goes quick.
January 30, 2005, 05:53 PM
Ok while I realize not everyone can afford the best in gear... the idea of taking a hog with a cheap rifle and 'cheap surplus' ammo kind of chaps me.
You want to use a surplus rifle that has some history? No problem. Please run 200 rounds through it and be able to hit a pop can at 100 yards. WITH the ammo you intend to hunt with.
Most states require you to use expanding bullets ie a soft point to hunt game. 8mm isn't that hard to find with a good, heavy for caliber bullet with good sectional density.
Most commercial 8mm Mauser loadings are closer to a 30-30 than a 30-06.
8mm Mauser Remington Express 170 gr soft point core lokt: MV 2360fps/ME 2102 ft/lbs
30-30 Remington Express 170 gr soft point core lokt: MV 2200fps/ME 1827 ft/lbs
30-06 Remington Express 180 gr soft point core lokt: MV 2700fps/ME 2913 ft/lbs
It's not a terribly 'powerful' cartridge compared to .270/.308/.30-06 but probably 'enough' if you can put it on target.
January 30, 2005, 05:57 PM
Personally I am not a rifle guy. Nor am I a hunter. I am an excellent shot (or was at one point) with a Winchester 30-30 as a kid and hunted all kinds of stuff.
Now I no longer have any kind of rifle save an SKS. I have considered a shotgun instead or a slug barrel for my 870. For some reason I am drawn to how mausers look and feel. Somthing cool about them.
The SKS is just plain fun to shoot.
Recently (this weekend) I shot an M44 7.62x54 and LOVED it. So why not hunt with somthing you enjoy shooting?
January 30, 2005, 06:46 PM
I strictly hunt with a recurve bow and have hunted wild boar.
I have experience with the two rifles in question though...
I'd have to go with a Mauser if you're hunting in heavy cover, or hilly terrain.
For a long reaching, corn/soybean field area, I'd go with the mauser too.
The SKS... well, it'll kill a smaller hog, but if you run up on a large member of the swine family, you'll regret not having enough gun.
So, as advised previously, if these are your only choices, go with the mauser.
Heck, I'd take an Enfiled over the SKS. But I have great respect for the 303 round too. Aussies and Kiwis still use them to hunt crocs.
One thing you need to be sure to do is understand your pig physiology before you go out after one. Not knowing or understanding how a pig's insides are built and protected can get you in trouble in the field no matter what you choose to shoot it with whether bow, rifle, or blunderbuss.
January 30, 2005, 07:07 PM
It's not as if you will run out of ammo hunting, but what if the hunting goes crappy and you decide, aw heck, lets just shoot some cans. (Happens a lot)...20 rounds of ammo goes quick. Wow - that's a perspective that hadn't occured to me. I guess in that case you could always pack two or three boxes of ammo in the car.
January 30, 2005, 11:20 PM
I've been involved in another discussion I started here in Hunting (.30-30 vs 7.62x39) and I'd use the soft point over FMJ or the non-expanding HP. Here in Alabama, shots are in mere yards, so I'm not worried about bullet drop on the 154-gr vs. the 122-gr bullet. Also, if I could go with the head shot, I would. Starting Feb. 1, we'll be hunting hogs with .22 rifles, since Management Area rules make us hunt with weapons & ammo appropriate for the (squirrel & rabbit) season. There's no closed season on hogs here, but there's not a lot of clubs that'll let you hunt 'em, either. Needless to say, our Lower Delta is packed with 'em, and the fee is low ($16) so that's where I'm going.
Not only that, but our management area will allow 11 rounds in the gun, so a stock SKS will hold 10 in the mag; to keep everything statewide-legal-like, I've replaced my SKS' mags with the 5-rd. version, but I still like the quick follow-up shots.
Needless to say, I have a Mosin-Nagant I haven't test-fired yet; I'll bet THAT'LL put a hog down!
January 31, 2005, 12:53 AM
Regards the crappy sights on the Mauser, all I have to say is Mojo (http://mojosights.com/98mausers.html). I put these on my Turk, and Miss Kaysa (my Swedish Mauser). They really do make a big difference, for the better. I haven't had a chance to properly sight in my Turk yet, but the Swede is a dream with the Mojos. Mind you, the issue sights on the Swede were much better than Turk's anyway, and with the Mojos, they're both now in "awsome" catagory for iron sights. Incidentally, there are also Mojos available for the SKS.
If you want a scope, there are a few folks (inc. here (http://www.scopemounts.com/instaprice.html)) out there making mounts that replace the rear iron sight. You have to use a scout scope or a pistol scope with those mounts.
As far as triggers go, yeah the Turk has a horribly heavy, creepy one. I haven't looked into getting it worked on, but I believe there are "drop-in" replacement triggers that can be had that are much better.
WRT commercial ammo price and availability, the SKS would have to win. I have yet to see 8x57 non-FMJ commercial loads that a) aren't emasculated and b) are less than $18/20. You can easilly buy SKS ammo for $90/500 (same as $3.60/20). I have seen 8x57 soft points for $8/20, but that was crappy quality, and low pressure stuff. If you handload, the ammo price hardly matters. Also, if you handload, you can work up some devastating 8mm loads (I have 150gr softpoint loads that launch at 3007fps).
In the end which of the two rifles would I choose? I'd take the 8mm Mauser - with Mojos, and handloaded ammo. And a trigger job if time and money afforded.
January 31, 2005, 09:31 AM
sumpnz & Dr Rob:
Check out the S&B 196gr softpoint:
I can't recall what I paid for a box of 20, but it can't have been too much, as I am one pretty cheap.
January 31, 2005, 12:37 PM
Those numbers are a lot better. If it's cheap you can afford to shoot a lot of it before you take it hunting.
Case in point: I wanted some "blasting ammo" for my O3A3 so I bought some Wolf 168 gr 30-06 Soft point... the stuff was so innacurate that I'd give it away, even though 'on paper' the load looked good.
Sometimes cheaper isn't better.
February 1, 2005, 10:24 PM
The S&B load did OK in my M48 Yugo. All on a paper plate at 100 yards, from seated position. Not great...OK. A whole lot better than Turk or Romanian milsurp, which requires me to be on a bench to keep them all minute of paper plate at 100 yards.
You're not going to shoot itty bitty groups with a M48, no matter what you stoke it with. It surely is no Swede & my Schmidt-Rubin could take it with its bolt tied behind its back.
There's an idea: buy a K31 Schmidt-Rubin & stoke it with softpoints. Initial outlay is less, but ammo costs are higher (even with Swiss GP11 "milsurp").
[GP11 "milsurp" gets "funky quotes" because it is the finest milsurp ammo I have ever shot. I'd put it up against commercial match ammo WRT quality.]
February 1, 2005, 10:51 PM
I appreciate it. I think I'm gonna scout out an M44 Mosin. That ought to do 'er.
February 2, 2005, 07:39 AM
That suggestion for the K-31 is outstanding. I have a M44 that groups about 6 inches at 25 yards. :barf: Be careful and take a flashlight to look at the bore and crown.
February 2, 2005, 06:13 PM
If it were me and wanted a firearm to which plinking and having fun with, as well as hunting hogs, were the intended goal I would look at the SKS's. And before I get jumped upon by all of the "experts" on hog hunting, yes I can back up what I am talking about with 10 years of hunting them with the SKS's as well as just about everything else I own.
The thing most folks see in the SKS is a cheaply produced rifle that shoots cheap bullets. WEll I cannot agree more. However those little soft point 123 - 125 gr bullets will definately do a number on a hog at 50 yds or less, as will some of the hollow pointed one's. I use mine several times a month while workon some friends property. I have 10 rounds and have shot it pleanty enough to know just where to hold the painted red sight to hit just where I want with the cheap ammo that I shoot. And yes, there are many times that the hogs will run when hit, just as they did when I hit them with the 7 mag, .270, 308, 25-06 and 30-06. Sometimes they are just tough, sometimes they will drop and you wonder why. I have seen them hit at over 200 yds with a REm. 17 and that was that, then others, be hit broadside at less than 25 yds through everything important, and run for over 200 yds.
That said the SKS is a fun low recoil gun. It can be sporterized to some extent with differetn stocks as well as aim point sights, and low powered scopes. The thing to remember is what you initiall have in the whole rig and expect the results of that. Heck if a long range whopper stopper get a 30-378 and load it up with some 200 gr Game Kings.
The end result is the pleasure of shooting and not the cost or hardship of looking for ammo. Some folks like to purchase it on the web some don't. Yes Midway sell's to the doorstep as well as a number of other places on the net. However, if it is more convieniant to get it at Wally World, or Bob's corner market go for it. I tried out several brands of ammo in mine and most all of it was crap for Bullseye shooting at 100 yds. However, I ain't seen the pig yet with the target painted on it's side.
Hogs... I've shot em, stabbed, arrowed them, drowned them, even killed one with a post once, i've taken them alive and tied them... In the last 17yrs i've placed a few semi-truckloads of them in the KIA column.
You can kill em with about anything most of the time... I shot one 80lb sow through both shoulders with a 405gr softpoint out of a 45/70 and watched her run about 75yds before dying. I launched a 300gr XTP into a 100lb sow at 2300fps out of the same gun and watched her run off like it never hurt. I liver shot one a month agothat weighed 150lbs dressed with an AR-15 and some 64gr PMC ammo and it dropped in 20yds. I piled 17 up in about 2 minutes one day on a sendero when the dogs pushed em to me all with an AK and 122gr Barnual HP ammo. Will the 7.62x39 work, yep... Is it my choice? Nope...
Hogs are tough critters, alot of times these "misses" folks claim are actually hits that didn't bleed and they saw no reaction from the shot. Hog shoulders don't shatter like deer shoulders do. You can wizz bullets right through em and they will just run off sometimes, other times they drop like you hit em with a 20mm canon.
As to charges, :rolleyes: Lets just say the more a guide talks about people being charged the more hunts he books... Does it happen? Sometimes... Not very often... I've probably shot more of the things than most folks here because of opportunities i've had to hunt certain areas. 17yrs and in that time i've had two hogs I thought tried to get me and both of them where crippled, most try to get away, some may stand and grunt or huff, pop their teeth, but try to get you, not very often. So I say take that consideration out of the equation...
So you have a critter who will weigh anywhere from 5-400lbs, who has very thick hide, has vitals protected by that hide and bones, whose ability to not leave a good blood trail is unrivaled, but won't try to come and eat you very often, normally just runs away.
So if you are going out to shoot one hog(we shoot them in batches), then you need a rifle that delivers one shot that will not only hit the vitals but blow through and leave an exit. A 7.62x39 will not do it on hogs over 150lbs if you hit a shoulder. Oh and the vitals, they lay between the shoulders... Not behind them like part of a deers lungs do... I used to own a Turk and shot the S&B load and liked it on hogs.
Remember the lungs are small and mainly between the shoulders. The heart lays low in the chest(almost at the belly level) just about directly between the shoulders and right in line with the legs. I'll attach a hastily done paintshop pic to this for you.
February 3, 2005, 05:54 PM
Thanks guys....most educational.
February 8, 2005, 08:32 PM
Either will work fine. The SKS has become a pretty popular deer/pig gun in the South. With soft points at 30-30 range (150 yards) or less it should be fine. The Mauser is also an excellent choice with european ammo. As someone else already stated US ammo is somewhat down loaded, but in either case it should work fine. Both of these guns were designed for FMJ ammo. Verify that yours will reliably feed your choice of hunting ammo to avoid a really nasty surprise.
Both of these guns are excellent field guns for down south swamp hunting. Both can be covered in swamp mud and work. Both will take the kind of accidental abuse that would make you cry if it happened to your pre 64 Winchester model 70.
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