[Blackhawk]

Just picked up a new-to-me stainless PPK/S .380, and the little beauty won't feed #7 and #6 Silvertips! Does fine with other copper clad JHPs, but the Silvertips overrotate too far so the bullet doesn't enter the chamber making a nasty jam.

Anybody else had trouble with Silvertips jamming their PPKs?

[denfoote]

Frankly I never tried Silvertips in mine!! I use the Federal PD rounds!!!:D

[Kahr carrier]

I use Silvertips in my PPKs , never had problems with jamming but mine is an early Interarms version. Is yours an Interarms or a S&W version??

[Blackhawk]

Interarms.

It's also got a tendency for the slide to ride up over the top round (with 7 in the mag) instead of chambering it or jamming.

So far, I'm disappointed because this particular gun seems dangerous... to the owner!

1. The Silvertip chambering jams are major in that you have to drop the mag first then rack the slide and jiggle the gun to clear the round. After you rack the slide again to chamber a round, the odds are about 75% that it will jam again on #6. Odds are good that it will chamber #5.

2. The slide riding over the top round is the real show stopper. It drags the round part way out of the mag, then the round tilts up as it hits the feed ramp and disengages the slide, which then goes into battery with no round in the chamber.

The big woo difference between the Silvertip bullet and the other .380 JHPs is that the tip of the bullet is bigger in diameter. The Silvertip is 0.248" in diameter while the normal JHP is 0.189" in diameter. They're the same length.

[dfariswheel]

The two standard rules for this situation are:

1. Try another magazine, preferbly a genuine Walther-made.
Usually failures to feed from the magazine like you're having are magazine related.

2. Don't use that ammo. Not every gun "likes" every brand/type of ammo. Yours obviously doesnt like Silvertips. Use something else.

[Blackhawk]

Of course.

But I'm interested in WHY it's not reliable.

The mag is Walther, and it's in perfect condition.

The gun is Walther, made in the U.S. under license.

The slide of this genuine Interarms Walther using a genuine Walther magazine sometimes overrides the top round regardless of the ammo.

This isn't a "hold muh beer while I get some other ammo and another mag" situation. The gun has problems that I'm interested in dissecting, and that's why I'm seeking input from other PPK owners/smiths, etc.

The guy I got it from carried it regularly, and I haven't told him yet that if he ever needed it in a SD situation, it likely wouldn't have fired. He carried it empty chamber, safety on, loaded with 6 Silvertips "because it jammed with 7." :what:

It is, IMO, the most dangerous CCW I've ever seen, and maybe the slide override problem is peculiar to this gun, but maybe other PPKs are subject to it too. We'll see....

[dfariswheel]

Sorry, you didn't make this clear at first.

There seems to be a problem with Walther PPK series guns made in the USA, especially the later guns.

Mine were early Interarms, and they NEVER jammed, even with lead bullet reloads.

I can suggest:

Try yet another magazine.

Experiment with your ammo to see if the problem is related to a specific weight or shape of bullet.

Inspect the magazine retention to insure the mag is being held high enough. Using a two hand hold, push the mag up into the frame, and see if it still fails to feed.

Check the frame/ejector area for any possible interference with the round. Especially check the right side of the frame, it's very thin in this area and can be bent inward.

Check the bottom of the slide breechblock for burrs or anything that might interfere.

Check the recoil spring for weakness, or binding. Check the slide for binding in recoil. Change the recoil spring.

Is the fired round being ejected properly? The fired case could be interfering with the next round in the mag.

Check the mag for proper assembly and quality of the spring. (No small bends that could cause binding.)

Check the mag for unnoticeable damage like bends, crush, or sprung condition.

Check it for burred or overly sharp feed lips.

Check your states "lemon Laws":D :D

[Blackhawk]

Good tips! Thanks! :D

[Pilot]

dfariswheel wrote:

"There seems to be a problem with Walther PPK series guns made in the USA, especially the later guns.

Mine were early Interarms, and they NEVER jammed, even with lead bullet reloads.

I can suggest:

Try yet another magazine.

Experiment with your ammo to see if the problem is related to a specific weight or shape of bullet.

Inspect the magazine retention to insure the mag is being held high enough. Using a two hand hold, push the mag up into the frame, and see if it still fails to feed.

Check the frame/ejector area for any possible interference with the round. Especially check the right side of the frame, it's very thin in this area and can be bent inward.

Check the bottom of the slide breechblock for burrs or anything that might interfere.

Check the recoil spring for weakness, or binding. Check the slide for binding in recoil. Change the recoil spring.

Is the fired round being ejected properly? The fired case could be interfering with the next round in the mag.

Check the mag for proper assembly and quality of the spring. (No small bends that could cause binding.)

Check the mag for unnoticeable damage like bends, crush, or sprung condition.

Check it for burred or overly sharp feed lips.

Check your states "lemon Laws"


Or, just get a Makarov.

[Blackhawk]

Got it working with Silvertips with hand cycling. I did all this before cleaning because a gun that won't function dirty isn't reliable at all, IMO.

There were three problems, none of which was major, and none of which was the sole cause of the problems.

Two of them concerned the magazine:

1. The magazine follower was slightly deformed with the forward vertical riser not being quite parallel with the rear one. This allowed the follower to tilt in the magazine tube. When the magazine was fully loaded, the top rounds weren't angled properly, but they were only off by a few thousandths of an inch. I was able to bend the follower so the risers are parallel by hand using a small adjustable wrench to grip the forward riser and my thumb to bend the joint.

2. The magazine spring was (and still is) in need of replacement. The forward contact point on the bottom of the follower was too far aft allowing the rounds to rotate the follower so they weren't aligned properly for stripping. I bent the top coil of the spring to put more pressure at the front of the follower.

These two problems apparently caused the slide overriding the top round because it didn't recur.

Unloading the magazine by hand and testing each rounds orientation showed that they were all aligning the same whereas before, #6 and #7 were markedly different.

The third problem involved the feed ramp.

3. Jamming rounds would first be caught nose down on the feed ramp and be stuck. More force on the back of the round caused it to flip up as too far to align with the chamber. The feed ramp had machining marks 90 degrees to the feeding travel. I polished it with a felt wheel and jeweler's rouge to the point where the ridges could not be felt.

After these steps, the gun consistently cycles all rounds with no problem. The only exception was loading one of the rounds that had previously jammed so hard that the bullet's nose had a significant flat spot from being deformed by the feed ramp. When its flat spot was loaded to first contact the feed ramp, it jammed again. However, intact Silvertip rounds all feed properly with no indication of any further tendency to jam.

I cleaned the gun and used a bit of FP-10 on it, so now it's ready for a range trip. :D

[dfariswheel]

A final check before the range:
Those rounds that have been chambered before MAY have been pushed back into the case slightly, especially the one with the dent.

Shortly after the police went to the auto pistol, they started having a problem with second round failures to feed.
It turned out that the cops were inspecting their guns by removing the mag, ejecting the chambered round and then inserting the mag, chambering the round, and replacing the first round into the mag.
This meant the SAME two rounds were hitting the feed ramp numerous times and pushing the bullet into the case.

You might not need to be TOO concerned if some of the ammo you've been working with gives you problems. Before deciding you still have a problem, try some fresh ammo.

It seems the smaller guns like the Walther are more sensitive to problems.

[Zander]

Blackhawk...We've talked about lots of things over the years on TFL and now here. Can I offer an opinion on your problem?

Sell or trade the PPK/s and buy an alloy-frame SIG P232.

You can thank me later... :cool:

[Blackhawk]

dfariswheel,

Right. The 7 rounds I've been testing with aren't going to be fired. They're VERY beat up. :uhoh:

I appreciate your input on this incident. :D

[Blackhawk]

Thanks for your opinion, Zander. It's just as irrelevant as mine! :D

I wasn't looking for another PPK. I enjoyed the other one I had about all I could stand.

This one popped up as an orphan that intrigued me due to its problems. My first PPK convinced me that there's no room in my life for a heavy, underpowered, low capacity auto with a very heavy DA trigger and a rotton blowback action no matter how beautiful it is.

This one is a PPK/S, which just gives one more round capacity. It's a nice gun for those inclined toward PPKs, but there's almost no chance I'll keep it. Once I'm convinced it's reliable, it's going to move on.

Sure is pretty in black and stainless, though.... :)

[Hal]

I'm with Zander,
Best thing about a used PPK/PPks is the resale value
:D

[Blackhawk]

Best thing about a used PPK/PPks is the resale valueAgreed. That's why when one comes along that's not exactly perfect, I jump at it. :)

[SteveA]

Glad you seem to have the problems sorted out. I've got "some" PPK/s's and have run Silvertips in them without problems at all, but all my Walthers are pre-72 except for one 85. None of the newer US made guns at all. They don't hold any interest to me.

Let us know how it performs on the range.

[care-less]

Get a new magazine!!!!!!!:)

[Monkeyleg]

Blackhawk, I had a US-made PPK/S that had the same problem. Wouldn't feed Silvertips. It went back to the factory at least once, possibly twice, but they couldn't solve the problem.

I should have hung onto it just to have one, but I wanted a pocket gun that worked.

[denfoote]

I might be in the minority here, but I like my PPK/S!! It is a newer Smith & Wesson made gun and it functions perfectly with Federal 90gr Personal Defense loads. This was the first hollowpiont ammo I tried in it and must have hit paydirt on the first try!!! :D I felt no need to experiment with anything else. This is what I carry in the gun. I am very pleased with it!!

Try that ammo!! I think you will find a pleasing difference. ;)

[SteveA]

Denfoote

I don't get that this is really about not liking the gun.

However, if I may be so bold, you might give a look at Glaser Safety Slugs for that .380 you're carrying.

[Hal]

Blackhawk,
Well bro, there were two things in life I really wanted after seeing Dr.No/From Russia With Love.
1.) A Walther PPK.
2.) A girl that looked as good as Ursula Andress in a bikini.

Got #2 in 1970 and got rid of her in '73
Got #1 quite a few years later and got rid of it a few months after that.

Didn't like/couldn't tolerate the "bite" of either.
Made out a whole lot better on the gun deal :D

[plnkr1234]

Hi Guys,

My late 80's/early 90's vintage Interarms stainless PPK was reliable out of the box with Silvertips. I have heard that that was usually not the case, however. Overall, I have found mine to be quite reliable. I hear Mike Larocca in MA does a good reliablity job on the PPK's. I've also heard that Pete Carber of Custom Arms in PA does a good job as well.

One concern I do have, however, is that the slide seems to be made of soft steel. There is a wear groove starting to form on the undersided of the slide where the next round to be fed from the magazine impacts. Has anyone else noticed this?

[Monkeyleg]

Hal: "2.) A girl that looked as good as Ursula Andress in a bikini.

Got #2 in 1970 and got rid of her in '73"

They're a dime a dozen. Don't worry about it. :)

[Blackhawk]

I've always been attracted to both PPKs and Luger toggle tops since I first saw them. Whenever I see a stainless PPK orphan, I'm inclined to get it just to fondle them. This one is totally gorgeous! And I got it due to the fact that it was "crippled."

No more! A little polishing and careful "adjusting" has put it on the straight and narrow. In peering into its internals, it appeared to have very few rounds fired through it. I managed to schmoze and ask the original owner about that, and he bought it new years ago and guessed that it had only ever fired a "box or two."

Big problem was that the gun had not been broken in under the care of a knowledgeable shooter. It supposedly had NEVER been cleaned or lubed -- until I got it.

However, I'm not a "collector" and since the P-11 beats out the PPK/S on EVERY comparison, it will only take up space in my safe. It's going to a home where it will be constantly appreciated, maybe as soon as Monday.... :D