[Berg01]

I have a dillemma on some past due gunsmith work...

On Nov. 26th, I put my S&W revolver in with a local gunsmith, to have the sideplate and screws reblued & polished to match the rest of the gun. At the time he told me that it would be a 6 week delivery, so right now this job is almost 3 weeks late. Past experience tells me that a good gunsmith can make you wait 3 months for even simple work, especially around the holidays. I don't need the gun back right away, and I definitely want the work done by this guy, but I obviously want it back as soon as possible. This guy's work is very good, and it is hard enough to find a good 'smith these days. I definitely have work on other guns that I would contemplate having this guy do.

My thinking is to let this go until Feb. 18th, which would be 3 months that the gun has been at his shop, before I take this guy to task for his late delivery. I have not yet contacted the 'smith pending some advice from folks who might have experienced similar problems.

[nbkky71]

The gunsmith that I use often has really long wait times. He's just really busy plus he's a great gun-plumber! When I sent my M1A to him for accurizing and it took nearly 2 months to get it back! He was only a couple days over his time estimate.

I'd guess the first thing to do would be to talk to the guy. You never know what circumstances have arisen in his life that can cause such a delay. Perhaps we got sick, had a death in the family, etc.

Good luck!

[P95Carry]

I would think it quite fair to call and just ask for a no hassle progress report - so you are better able to have an idea when it will be back. If he is good and also a guy with honesty and integrity - he should give you a no BS answer hopefully.

This certainly before waiting to take him to task ... that's a ways ahead yet probably - or hopefully not!! :)

[R.H. Lee]

Yeah, just give him a call- "just checkin' in......."

[stealthmode]

I dont care how good the guy is supposed to be. a quoted time it a quoted time. did he call you and tell you it will be longer or did time just pass and now your counting days? i would call him and ask what the deal is and see if i could get some kind of discount for the wait.

[Larry Ashcraft]

see if i could get some kind of discount for the wait.
I've been a retailer/awards specialist/engraver for 35 years and I'll tell you that statement will get you shown the door. Nothing makes me madder than a customer who wants me to work cheaper just because I'm busy.

Fact: good gunsmiths, good body shops and yes good engravers are usually behind on their work. I recently had my truck painted by the best body shop in town. The quoted time was 2-3 weeks. The actual time was 6 weeks, plus a trip back for additional work, but I am very happy with the results. If I had bugged them and asked for special treatment and discounts, I'm sure I wouldn't be happy with the results, nor would I be welcome back.

Just check in on your gun occasionally and politely.

[R.H. Lee]

In all fairness Larry, you'd have to work on a tighter schedule. People who need engraving usually need it by a certain date, don't they? Awards banquets, retirements, victory parties and such? That said, skilled craftsmen are few and far between. It's not like going to WallyWorld and being disappointed because the boat from China is late.

Even the local gunsmith here is backed up 3+months, and I don't know whether he's any good or not.

[Larry Ashcraft]

You're right Riley, most of the things I sell are no good the next day, or even ten minutes late. Of course that means an order not needed until next week may get pushed aside for a day to produce the rush order that is needed tonight. That's how I occasionally get a mad customer.

When I had a custom rifle built several years ago, the gunsmith and I had an agreement that he would work on my rifle at his leisure, becuase there is always the competitive shooter who needs his work done this week, or the hunter who broke his only rifle a week before hunting season. I don't remember how long my rifle took to finish, but it is a beauty.

[Brian D.]

Berg, at least you stayed local with the work. My rule of thumb is to never send a gun more than a half day's drive away. So that if the work isn't done by the promised time, you can retrieve your firearm, brain the 'smith right before you leave town, and get home in time for a late dinner. (Okay, that's a little sarcastic, but too many of my friends have been burned a time or two in the past. There seems to be a higher than normal rate of "primadonnaism" among gunsmiths than the rest of us.)

You know I'm [mostly] kidding, right? :)

[Berg01]

Berg, at least you stayed local with the work.

The gun is a Model 27, which I can't easily replace, so it ain't getting shipped...believe me, had I sent it to Smith's Custom Shop for this work, it would have turned around in 2 - 3 weeks.

I'm gonna call this guy at the end of the week; I'm not mad or anything, I just want the gun back when it's ready. He does good work and he's reasonable, and I think good gunsmiths are a dying breed, so I want to be supportive.

On a sidenote, a contractor gave me this little bit of advice....

People you do work for want things done; 1) Cheap, 2) Fast, 3) Properly - pick any two

[Werewolf]

I've been a retailer/awards specialist/engraver for 35 years and I'll tell you that statement will get you shown the door. Nothing makes me madder than a customer who wants me to work cheaper just because I'm busy.

Fact: good gunsmiths, good body shops and yes good engravers are usually behind on their work.THEY are behind because they don't know how to schedule or don't have realistic expectations about how long it takes to do their work. Piss poor planning is no excuse for piss poor customer service.

If a job's gonna take 3 months don't tell a customer it's gonna take 6 weeks just to get his business.

That's happened to me. HBE leather in a written communication promised 5 to 6 weeks delivery. 9 weeks later HBE leather promised delivery in two more weeks. 4 weeks later he promised delivery in two more weeks. Ended up it took 14 weeks to get my holster.

Moral of the story if he'd promisedf 12 to 14 weeks up front I'd have accepted that and been a satisfied customer. As it stands I'll never buy another holster from HBE again.

Good quality means meeting a customer's expectations. Part of meeting those expectations is ontime delivery of promised service. Don't over estimate your ability to deliver and most certainly don't lie to customers - it only creates bad will and in the long term lost business.

[DragonFire]

Werewolf hit my pet peeve straight on. As a customer I should be given a reasonable estimate of the time it's going to take. I know sometimes things happen and it can take longer. But there should be a reason for the delay.

Saying other (non-emergency) work came in and got worked on first isn't a good reason. Saying you "got busy" isn't a good reason.

I had the same problem with HBE. The overall time wasn't so terrible, but when you're promised 4 weeks, then 5, then 6 and it takes 8 weeks, you end up unsatisfied. And like Werewolf also said, I'd have gladly waited the 8 weeks if that was the original estimate. btw: I like my HBE holsters enough that I will order there again when I need another one.


Nothing makes me madder than a customer who wants me to work cheaper just because I'm busy.

It's not because you're busy, but because you defaulted on the 'contract'. You said you'd deliver the goods in XX amount of time for YY about of money. If you can't fullfil your end of the contract, why should the customer be obiligated to to fulfull their end? It would be one thing if the customer insisted on a date, that you knew might not be able to be met, but if you're the one giving the date, why shouldn't the customer expect you to meet that date or give some compensation for missing the date?

It's another example of a person being held responsible for the things they say and do.

[PCRCCW]

Thanks for the feedback guys....Its what I need to hear at times.
Honesty is the best policy.....I appreciate yours.
Shoot well. Eric/HBE

[bigjim]

Wow PCRCCW,

I can tell you don't work at RMA. Based on your post I will be calling for a holster.

[9mmepiphany]

i guess i'm just too nice a guy. when i've wanted "custom" work, i've always doubled the original time estimate and then added one-third again for unforseen problems (it is like working with a contractor who is "working with you" on that dream project)

if you want an artist's work, you put up with this kind of stuff. if i just need a mechanic to give me a quick fix on a working tool (like tuning a extractor or polishing a feedramp on a 1911) i wouldn't expect it to take much more then a few days. it is all a matter of what kind of work you want done

i don't even ask how long it will take, i figure they'll call when it's ready...i've even had them discount the work when it took them too long

[Werewolf]

i don't even ask how long it will take, i figure they'll call when it's ready...i've even had them discount the work when it took them too longLucky for us most customers aren't this forgiving for if they were nothing would ever get done... :D

[Berg01]

Lucky for us most customers aren't this forgiving for if they were nothing would ever get done...

Like I said earlier in the post, good gunsmiths are a dying breed; if you find
one with no backlog, he probably isn't very good. You might get your work turned around on time, but you may not be pleased with the results.

[mec]

Failure of gunsmiths to adher to stated timeframes is one of the reasons the American Pistolsmith's Guild was founded. They loose more members over poor business practices and lousy people skills than to any problems over quality of service. One of the founding goals was to enhance the image of the pistol smith by promoting good business practices.

The longest I waited for a gun was three or four years. After the first year, I became interested in seeing how long it would take him to resolve his indecision about how to go about one of the tasks. He might still have the revolver if a friend hadn't become disgusted and picked it up for me.

Another kept a re-blued revolver for several months. When I called, he said that he had tried over and over to get me on the the phone and couldn't. He must have been calling the wrong number all thoses months as I had an answering maching that would have picked him up.

A few years ago, i decided I wanted a custom barrel on a ruger nmbh. I Posted a notice on an enthusiats' board asking if one of the member/gunsmiths might want the job.

One immediately answered " If you want it in three months, we could probably do it. If you want it in three days or three weeks then we definately could not." I had said nothing about a rush or any time frame at all. I took the unprovoked rudeness to mean that he really didn't want the job.

One of the other smiths answered with a fairly detailed prospectus about the time it would take, the cost of the job and other incidentals. I sent the gun to him. He was several months late and charged a couple of hundred dollars more than was quoted. No problem, he had run into a few special circumstances..
The gun arrived at my dealer who then refused to turn it over to me because the Gunsmith had not included a copy of his FFl ( He had told me that he does this routinely.) He finally did send the FFl but no before giving me his sermon about legal non- necessity for it. ( It was not legally required but was required by the policy of my dealer which is the same thing for me.) He also told me a lot of fictitious stories about the work he had done on the gun. The upshot was that he had had great difficulty getting the custom barrel to shoot well. Curious since the factory barrel had been more accurate than the one he fitted.

Our local gunsmith likes to take in jobs and stack them in the corner untouched until the owner gets mad and comes in to pick the gun up. He can be gotten to work on a gun but it requires finesse. The standing recommendationis to take a pizza he likes over to his house and stand over him while he fixes the gun. Some things he does very well-(trigger jobs on 1911s) Others he does poorly (He ruins the entire action on Smith Revolvers.)

Best policy for me has been- factory service if available - APG gunsmith if not.

[Werewolf]

MEC:

Does APG have a website with a listing of it's members by location?

If so please post a link...

Thanks

[FunGunner]

Some craftsmen stop taking work at a certain point, so that they can remain honest with thier customers. If a Gunsmith told me that he wasn't taking work because of a large backlog, which tells me two things. One, he's skilled enough to know his limits, and two, honest enough to not over step them. Because of that I will wait a very long time, to have them work on my guns and know that I will not get wronged.

[mec]

http://www.americanpistol.com/

[9mmepiphany]

i really don't mind the months he has my gun, because i trust that he is not just holding it for fun, as much as i mind the years that it takes to get to the top of his waiting list.

at least he doesn't ask for the gun before he is ready to start work on it and he doesn't need a deposit to hold my place on the waiting list. he also doesn't charge until the work is done.

i once had a local custom leather maker offer to make a pancake holster for my walther p38. after serveral months i just forgot about it...i heard he had moved out of state and across country. about a year later, a package arrived in the mail from florida. a very nice suede lined leather pancake holster which fit my p38 perfectly was inside with a note that stated: "sorry it took so long...no charge". very classy indeed.

[PCRCCW]

9mmepiphany
holster makers like that are few and far between nowadays. :D
Shoot well.........

[larryw]

As any craftsman will tell you, some jobs are hard to estimate until they get into them, and a backlog is easy to run into. I've also worked with enough smiths to realize that (like computer programmers), good ones are better craftsmen than businessmen. And I'm also talking about the traditional one man shop gunsmith, not the largish semi-production companies like Clark or Briley (who do good work and meet schedules).

So you've run into the double edged sword. Do you want it done right, or on time?

Now, bear in mind, this is coming from a guy who makes his living in marketing, where satisfying the customer is the number one objective. And managing customer expectations is part of that.

But I also have to point out that for a gunsmith, like any other craftsman or artist, I'm more interested in his skill working with his tools, than his skill driving a calendar and spreadsheet. I've had work done where you could set your watch by the time promised, and the work was adequate. I've had work done that ran a couple seasons past schedule, and when I got the gun back, it truly was a work of art. Guess which smith I keep going to?

There is nothing wrong with calling the guy to politely ask for status. Keep after him, but be very friendly: you want to be the squeaky wheel that gets the oil, not the rattling can that get smashed. ;)

[stans]

I put my S&W revolver in with a local gunsmith, to have the sideplate and screws reblued & polished to match the rest of the gun.

I'm not a professional 'smith, but I am thinking this is a pretty tall order. It is hard to paint something to match, much less blue metal and make it match. Call the 'smith, he may just be having difficulty making it match properly. Who knows, he may be on the twenty fifth attempt at making it match perfectly and may be losing tons of money on a small job.

[shoot870p]

nothing wrong with a nice call to check on progress. not to pressure or anything.
Lee

[JohnKSa]

Stop and think what you really want.

You want quick--go buy a new gun. Faster and probably cheaper.

You want art--you deal with the artist's schedule.

If I can't do it myself and don't want the factory to do it, I don't worry about deadlines. I usually ask for a rough delivery estimate and check in once in awhile to make sure they remember me. I try to be pleasant and never pressure them to hurry. There's nothing wrong about calling after the delivery estimate time is past, but there's not much to be gained by being nasty about it either.