[critter]

Several threads below and recently have been bashing public schools and school teachers.

Please allow me to address that situation. My credentials? I taught chemistry, physics and computer classes in public schools for nearly 30 years and then was an administrator for a vocational school for seven more. With the required training for those jobs being spent in colleges, I feel I know the situation.

I have seen NONE of you who have been NEARLY HARD ENOUGH on our school institutions and (many of) the teachers working therein!

Agreed, there are a few (10% or less) good folks, sensible, patriots, hard working, teaching their subjects faithfully and correctly and being good examples for their kids.

Not a sexist remark, just a fact, that shool systems are heavily populated with women who tend often to fall into the following two groups. Many of the school employees (maybe 40-50%) are just bliss-ninnies, completely oblivious to politics, world events, trends, new educational trends or anything else. Couldn't care less-about anything. Just leave them alone!

Most of the rest (40-50%) are active, vigerous socialists. Colleges and public school leaders are nearly 100% heavily trained, hard core socialist. Schools are constructed so as to build socialists and the more quickly one becomes a socialist, the faster one rises in the ranks. Hence, this large and growing group.

[critter]

Oops. Out of room.

I feel that if this great country of ours falls, it will be due to the weight of its own bloated bureaucracies and socialist trends. The leader in both of these categories are our public schools. Neither do I see much hope of any positive changes in our schools any time soon.

(Sorry for the rant. Rant mode off for now.)

[BigG]

Critter, you apparently ain't read nothing by me from back in the TFL days. I roasted the living bejezzis out of our free public edication system a number of times. They are nothing but a socialist breeding ground as you say. If the money were left with parents, good competitive private schools would spring up like mushrooms but where would the fatcats get their money?

[Ebbtide]

It looks as if we identified the problem, now what's the solution?

I'm not sure the answers are here on THR, and I'm sure putting our kids in private or home school is not an action that will promote change (be it a cure for our kids).

Perhaps we who are concerned should not pass this problem on to our kids.

Right now I'm looking at my application from the Nominating Panel for the Cleveland Municiple School District. I think that is a start for me, how about you?

ehenz

[2dogs]

The least liked teacher in my high school (by me and most every one else) - told the class never to forget our "ethics and principles". I've tried not to.

Had to reevaluate the guy.

[Marko Kloos]

It looks as if we identified the problem, now what's the solution?

For us, it will be home-schooling or private school. I'll be damned if I'll subject my future children to ten years of government indoctrination and the pack mentality that is the Dewey educational system.

[wingman]

Agree with Critter 100%, however I would also add parents for the past
30-35 years have "turned" there children
over to the schools to raise. Mom and
dad both are expected to work, to be the
good little consumer, therefore a new
baby is passed to daycare and on to
public school not having much contact
with mom and pop.

Many changes are needed both in schools and home.:banghead:

[El Tejon]

Solution? I'm living it. Send private school fundraising letters to Uncle Kirk.:)

[Leatherneck]

Lendringser's approach will work for many, and I wish there were a way to convert my property tax money to his home-school resource requirements.

But what of the remaining kids who attend the public institutions? It's a self-licking ice cream cone that will just keep on drippin' little brainwashed socialists.

I'd say it's up to good citizens to climb all over the school boards and administrators.

Oh yeah: and ban the NEA.:cuss:

TC
TFL Survivor

[critter]

Private schools are one answer for some parents. To change the public schools, parents in large masses must go into the schools and FIND OUT what is going on and then DEMAND changes in personnel, in school philiosophy, in the 'historic revisionist' textbooks, in the texts that promote big-government and cradle-to-grave 'the father-government will take care of you' ideas and philiosophy, etc. Then they must begin to demand changes in the colleges who train these teachers. It is a BIG job and I'm not sure enough of the public cares enough to be aware of the problem and begin to work to solve it.

Believe me, I am active locally along with some others. Results are in doubt but I believe we will SLOWLY begin to have success. Our future as a country and the future of our kids and grandkids are at stake and they deserve our help-NOW.

[Ebbtide]

Many changes are needed both in schools and home

Yes in deed!!!

With an emphasis on changes at "home", I don't see too many Americans living within their means these days. The only real reason both parents feel they must work is to support their lifestyle.

We are a spoiled nation that turns to the free school system when we miss-manage our money. We overload the school with our kids, stand by while teachers create a union that rewards tenure regardless of performance, pass levies that are not needed by buyinh into the "no money" cries from the school boards even though they spend upwards of $6000.00 a year per student.

[JohnBT]

I think critter isn't hard enough on them. A small percentage of students will do well anywhere - and probably just as well studying on their own. The rest are not getting our money's worth. Not at all.

My credentials, in addition to an M.S. in Rehabilitation Counseling: I test and counsel people for a living and make recommendations for additional education, vocational training or job placement. My job title is rehabilitation vocational evaluator. I work with some high school juniors and seniors, but primarily with adults - but most of them went to public schools too.

I've been in this line of work since 1974 as both as evaluator and a rehab counselor and have worked in a variety of offices around the state.

OTOH, Richmond City Public Schools need to be shut down immediately.

John

[twoblink]

All this talk about the youth this, the youth that... just look at who...errr.. WHAT is teaching our schools!!

I currently teach ESL here in Taiwan, and the students are so surprised that I'm not a flower huggin' liberal.

There are always those teachers who made a difference in student's lives; they are the exception, and not the rule (that's why you can usually only name one or two, out of the dozens and dozens you've had over your lifetime). It is amazing just how liberal these teachers are. There was recently done, a study of which party the teachers belonged to. Well, not a big surprise, most of the teachers on the top named campuses were all left of Stalin. It gives me new reasons not to send my kids (when I have them) to college!

Most teachers make me barf, and the ones that don't, are too busy apologizing on behalf of their counterparts..:fire: :cuss:

[TheLastBoyScout]

Guys, the private schools aren't perfect either. The catholic grade school I went to was a blissninnie run fustercluck to a large extent as well. They kept quiet on issues with which the RC church was specifically at odds with liberal theory, but they were just as vocal as anyone about everything else.

[CZ-75]

I've always wondered how parents can do a good job homeschooling their children.

I might expect that up to the Jr. High/middle school years that most parents could handle the job, but I kinda doubt that most parents could teach their children geometry, higher level algebra and calculus, nor anything much in the natural or physical sciences, either because they never had the subjects or haven't used them in decades. Seems that somewhere in there the subjects will surpass the expertise of the parents.

Opinions?

I would think that somewhere after 6th grade would be a good time to consider private schooling, or possibly, Jr. college classes.

[fallingblock]

attended a Catholic school!:what: :what:

[DadOfThree]

Seems that somewhere in there the subjects will surpass the expertise of the parents.
The great thing about home schooling is the amount of support groups and support materials there are out there. There are teachers guides along with the student workbooks. These help keep you up to speed with ways to teach. Also, by the time you start teaching your child geometry or algebra, you have just finished teaching him/her advanced math and pre-algebra in the years before. It's not like you are trying to remember how to do the work from 20 yrs ago. It is true about being the best way to learn a subject, teach it. If you do run into something you just do not understand, there are resources to use through the different teaching programs that provided your text books and work books. Teaching is not for everybody but it is not something so formidable that "ordinary" folks can't do it.

[Peetmoss]

To everyone who is whining and crying about the state of our public schools. If you people are that upset with the way your public school is being run then do something about it. Run for election to the Board of Education for your local school districts and make some changes. Half of you people probably don't even vote on the budget and board members when it comes up every year. :cuss: or get off the pot people.

[labgrade]

& there is this too, Peetmoss, that the system is so corrupt that there's no reason to even try any longer.

Why put forth any effort when those that can/know, will just bail out?

Seriously, why even bother to attempt to fix something so bastardized when it is easier to just not any longer play?

This system will self-collapse in short time & that from it's own weight.

Home/private-schoolers have increased by 50% over the last year - likely, it'll do so again & again over the next few - & at a similar rate.

Eventually, vouchers will gain through mere inertia & public schools will simply dissolve.

& isn't that the basics of free-market enterprise? (rhetorical, I know, but that's the trend)

Publik skuls are a dyin' breed - simply because they don't provide the service they purport - they do not educate our children.

Simply put, when these "things" no longer support the intended goal, as purported by the guv'mint, they become useless & will be replaced by the free-market.

"Fixing it" entails getting over an establsihed "Administration" whose goal is to pepeterate itself, rather than to educate.

Easier to just by-pass, take the voucher & self-educate.

Let the Administration die a natural death.

[DadOfThree]

Half of you people probably don't even vote on the budget and board members when it comes up every year
I can't speak for everyone else, but I am from the half that does vote and is on the officer board of our PTA. I don't home school. I am real happy with our public school. It's an exception to the rule. My best friend does home school and is very happy with it.

[Ed Brunner]

Poor little froggy sat in a pan of water that was slowly being heated to a boil. By the time froggy realized what was happening, it was too late to jump out.

The schools are only a symptom of a much larger problem.

[pax]

On homeschooling:
I might expect that up to the Jr. High/middle school years that most parents could handle the job, but I kinda doubt that most parents could teach their children geometry, higher level algebra and calculus, nor anything much in the natural or physical sciences, either because they never had the subjects or haven't used them in decades. Seems that somewhere in there the subjects will surpass the expertise of the parents.
As DadofThree pointed out, by the time you are teaching algebra, you just taught pre-alg and so your math skills aren't as rusty as you'd think. Whenever one of our kids has developed an interest in something I either can't teach or don't feel like teaching, we have looked around for other options. Two of our kids go to tutors one afternoon a week (both barter deals). When our kids wanted to learn to play piano, we hired a piano teacher. And my oldest son (age 13) and I are going to take a Spanish class together at the local college next fall. We'll also be joining a science co-op next fall, too -- a club that meets for several hours one day a week, with shared materials (microscopes etc) during the meeting and with assigned projects to be done at home. Teaching is rotated among parents who have an area of expertise, and sometimes they have visiting experts too.

On public schools:

A few years back, I had a friend tell me that I was 'weakening' the public schools by having kids and not sending them there. This logic utterly escaped me; we pay taxes, after all. Would someone who pays into the welfare system, but never uses welfare, be 'weakening' welfare? So merely being a homeschooler isn't going to affect the public school in any way I can think of. (Ah, it's about getting federal money. Right! Where does that money come from, again?)

As for vouchers, if they were offered, I would not take them. Federal strings always follow federal money. I don't want the strings so I won't take the money.

However.

I think vouchers are a great idea which would greatly benefit the local schools. The best way to encourage my local school to excel, to spend more money on education and less on bureaucratic caca, is to have them competing for dollars with schools that actually provide education.

On gun owners and kids' education:

Regardless of your stance on public schools/private schools/home schools, there are things that only you are responsible for teaching your child. You may delegate the task, but the responsibility for it is still yours.

If your child grows up knowing nothing about guns and hating the idea of gun ownership, doesn't know what the Bill of Rights is nor what it means, never learns a thing about gun safety, and has no clue about American history and values, it will be nobody's fault but yours.

If you delegate the task of educating your child to someone else, it is still your job to make sure the task is being done.

[/lecture]

pax

The most important outcome of education is to help students become independent of formal education. -- Paul Gray

[BigG]

Somebody mentioned that "Catholic schools aren't doing the job either." I agree but that is because it is part of the current system. For years it was about the ONLY alternative to the public skool. In a truly competitive (for student $) environment the collectivist garbage will be jettisoned rather quickly, I believe.

This (free public education) system will self-collapse in short time & that from it's own weight. I hope so, BUT, the tax dollars have to revert to the consumers who will get to CHOOSE who will get to educate their kids. Otherwise, the system is already collapsed in my opinion, however, they still are subsidized by everyman's tax dollars.

I will also offer this wisdom from my dad who has said it many times over the years: "An educated and informed electorate is the worst enemy of the democratic party."

[labgrade]

I would bet that easily 1/2 of my own "community of folks" homeschool their kids, the other 1/2 is willing to fight to make the system work - & these latter 1/2 are in there doing the extra work to ensure that the publik skuls are doing what they're supposed to.

As mentioned by pax (God love 'er! ;) ), what you don't know, somebody else does - even though these are not "paid," per se, we still call them teachers.

In our "community," we have Double Es/Sparkies (to beat the band - besides AI & high-level coding), IT/Database Managers (who actually know how to turn data into usable information - a rare talent), Mechanical Design Engineers, Literary Professors, Multi-Linguals, Pharamcists, business owners who make money from their own efforts, & "machine shop" owners (CNC wire EDM, laser cuttings, on & on) - more. .... an incredible resource for hands-on teaching, which all are capable of & do. & this besides the "basics."

Hey, it's for the children, ya know.

Personally, I have yet to have a problem with the publik skul system other than their administrators & the level of discipline - & their seemingly decicated alliance with Dept of Social "Services." We picked our spot/s largely based on what the schools offered. That's with my kids - still working with them regards the grandkids ....

There are pockets of absolutely wonderful schools & teachers, but largely they're not even teaching Johnny to read. A "school" in The 'Springs was blowing off division for our 13-year old GK - said they won't need it 'cause of calculators .....

No wonder one our Founding Fathers said we need a revolution every 25 years.

Inertia itself dictates that any institution will become self-eradicating after about that period of time.

If only we had the collective will - some do.