[joey93turbo]

A while back I started another Which M4A3 thread but it sorta turned into a Colt vs everything else thread. I found out today I'm gettin money back on my tax return so I'm ready to buy now :)

There's a gun show coming up this weekend that I'm gonna attend. Hopefully I'll be able to find one I want there. I'm really having a hard time deciding what to look for.

I know I want an M4A3. I know I want either a 14.5" or 16" barrel. I know it needs to be less than $1000 (count colt out). I was looking at Bushmaster, DPMS, and RRA. What do you guys think? oh, and why?

[N3rday]

Here's an idea. Buy a complete upper from Bushmaster, and a complete lower from RRA. much cheaper than going all Bushmaster, and better (because of selection of barrel lengths and profiles, plus 4150 steel and chrome-lining) than going all RRA. Allows you to choose the stock, too, rather than having to replace the one that came with it.
Good luck!

[Duke of Lawnchair]

joey,

Would you be opposed to purchasing a complete lower assembly and upper from two completely different assemblers?

Also, is LMT completely off your radar?

If you insist on an M4-clone then I advise to go chrome-lined.
Barrel cleaning is a breeze (relatively speaking).

-Jim

[joey93turbo]

I was not aware that LMT sold complete guns. I do plan on getting the chrome lined barrel. The thing that concerns me about buying an upper and a lower is warranty situation should something go wrong. Do the companies warranty their uppers and lowers?

[Bartholomew Roberts]

There are a lot more good manufacturers than bad ones and even the manufacturers that I would consider second-tier put out a lot of good rifles. My recommendation is to decide what options you want on your rifle and buy from the company that has those options.

If more than one company meets your criteria, then consider price and manufacturer reputation.

[KW]

My personal choice would be to go with a lower from any of the manufacturors you mention, prefferably the most affordable. Then buy an upper from CMMG (http://www.cmmginc.com). They offer all the M4 goodies (feed ramps, T numbered upper, 4150 steel, 1/7 twist barrel, m4 handguards) in both a 14.5" and 16" length. Quality and price are excellent, and their customer service is great too.

[NMshooter]

Buy a Bushmaster. Shoot it a lot. As you save up money, purchase LMT and other parts. Eventually you will get to where you want to be, and you will have experience enough to figure out where to go next.

[joey93turbo]

What do you guys recommend for the barrel length? 14.5" or 16"?

[Duke of Lawnchair]

I recommend a 16" barrel, just for the added velocity over a 14.5" barrel.

As to whether or not LMT sells complete rifles is obscure to me. They might sell complete to law enforcement.

-Jim

[KW]

I also prefer the 16" barrel for the higher muzzle velocity. The advantage of the 14.5" is that it weighs a little less, and can fit a standard bayonet (you can find ones that are modified to fit on a 16").

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I like the 16". A 14.5" requires either NFA paperwork or a permanent muzzle attachment. Either requirement can be a pain at times, particularly if you plan to add or modify your AR at some future time.

The 16" is only 1" longer than a 14.5" with permanent muzzle device and gives you a little more velocity as well. I particularly like the midlength 16" carbines that move the front sight base up to give you a little softer cycling and a bit more sight radius.

[joey93turbo]

What should I expect to pay for a Bushmaster M4A3? How about an RRA with a chrome lined barrel? I think I'm going to get the 16" barrel for now, then maybe later pay the tax and get a 10.5" or something, but I'll check em out tomorrow and see which feels more balanced to me. Hopefully they have a selection so I can handle them and see which I like best. It seems like the last gun show the Bushmaster M4's were right around $750-$800, but that sounds too low to me. Maybe I was looking at a different gun but I think the dealer was doing 20% off MSRP on all Bushmasters.

[cgv69]

Well as far as the last thread goes, I will apologize as that was not my intent.

As far as LMT goes, no, they do not sell complete rifles. I would also recommend that you avoid their lowers. Check out AR15.com and you will see there have been a number of spec issues with them (Mag wells being tight, pistol grip screw holes being drill at the wrong angle). There uppers are generally pretty good but good luck finding one right now.

Buying a complete upper from one source and a complete lower from another is generally not a bad way to go. It is usually the less expensive way to go when you are talking about uppers and lowers from anybody other than Colt.

Very rarely will you have any kind of functioning problem with a lower except if you get a 2-stage trigger (some of those are flaky). I know BM for one is very good about servicing their uppers even if it wasn't purchased as part of a complete gun.

The one problem you will run into if you got the separate lower\upper route right now is, there is a major shortage of BM and RRA lowers. Not that you can't find them but they are not as easy to come by as they where 6 months ago or will be 6 months from now. Now if you want to build your own lower, there are some options there.

Anyway you go, I would pay the most attention to the barrel. Of the companies you listed, most of their parts are going to be very similar if not exactly the same but the barrel is where these companies vary the most and is also one of the most critical parts of an AR type weapon. It will also set the tone of how well the gun will handle and perform.

I prefer the 14.5" barrels on an M4gery but unless you are going to SBR it, you will need to have a permanently attached muzzle device. That's not a big deal unless you decide to modify it later with a FF forearm of something of that nature. The 16" is just fine and for most people it's the easier route to go.

I would make sure the barrel is chrome lined. I'm sure many people will jump my butt for that comment talking about how its not needed and how their non-chrome "insert manufactures name here" gun runs just fine without it. Well sorry I do not agree with that, while it may not be "needed" its benefits greatly out-way any cost difference IMHO.

I would also make sure it is "turned down" under the hand-guards meaning it has the true M4\government\A2 profile. An HBAR in a M4gery makes no sense at all. It will make the gun heavier that it should be, front heavy and balance poorly.

Basically what I'm saying is get the Bushmaster. RRA makes some good AR's and you can get an AR from RRA with a true M4 profiled\chrome lined barrel but its usually a special order item and it's not likely you will find one like that at a gun show. DPMS is not a bad company either but the chance of finding a factory built DPMS M4gery with the barrel as I described it is next to impossible (matter of fact, it may be impossible?) and even if you did, it would have a cast FSB which is just cheesy IMO.

Next to Colt, the BM is built closest to the real thing (without having to special order it) and will have the highest resale value. They also have one of the best CS dept's in the AR world should you run into an issue. Contrary to what some may think from reading the last thread, I'm actually a fan of BM and they are one of the few AR makers I would consider buying a complete AR from. (Colt and RRA are the other ones).

Good luck and let us know what you decide

[cgv69]

What should I expect to pay for a Bushmaster M4A3? How about an RRA with a chrome lined barrel? I think I'm going to get the 16" barrel for now, then maybe later pay the tax and get a 10.5" or something, but I'll check em out tomorrow and see which feels more balanced to me. Hopefully they have a selection so I can handle them and see which I like best. It seems like the last gun show the Bushmaster M4's were right around $750-$800, but that sounds too low to me. Maybe I was looking at a different gun but I think the dealer was doing 20% off MSRP on all Bushmasters.

Yes, that would be pretty low. If you can get a BM M4gery (no ban config) for that, jump on it! Typically from what I've seen, they go for between $850-$900. If you get the BM, get one with the A2 FH, not the goofy IZZY doo-hickey.

If you can find a RRA with a true M4 profiled chrome lined barrel, go for it. It will be just as good as the BM and probably a little cheaper cost wise. They are just harder to find. The only down side to RRA compared to BM is there service dept is slower.

[joey93turbo]

Thanks for the info guys! How do I tell if it's a "true M4 profile"? pics would help...

[cgv69]

Basically you will need to look under the handguard but if you hold a carbine with a true M4 barrel and another one with a HBAR, you will immediately feel\know the difference...

Here is a pic off of BM's web site showing an M4 profiled barrel. The two main distinguishing features is how it's turned down under the hand guard and the step down in front of the FSB that is designed to be the mounting point for the M203. (That step down is more for looks than anything on a civilian carbine)...

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/barrel-assemblies/Images/abbl16m4a.jpg

Here is a pick of a typical barrel that a lot of companies put on their "M4"'s. Keep in mind that BM has sold plenty of carbines with this barrel as well so you really need to ask\check before buying.

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/barrel-assemblies/Images/abbl-16a.jpg

Notice this barrel doesn't have the M203 cut either but if you see that cut on a barrel that doesn't necessarily mean it is turned down under the handguards. I can't say for a fact the BM does it but I know there are some barrels out there that have the M203 cut but are still heavy under the handguards.

[Chairman]

+1 for CMMG

You get all the goodies: 1/7 twist, 4150 steel, M4 contour, etc. for aroung $500 for a complete upper. Mine is great and everyone else who owns 'em seem to think so as well.

[GlocksRock]

ditto on the CMMG Inc. upper, I've got their M4 upper as well and I love it.

[joey93turbo]

Well, I'm back from the gun show. Aside from two Benchmade Auto's I picked up for $100 each I didn't get anything. There was only one shop with M4A3's, two Bushmasters and one RRA. Best they'd do on either of em was $930. My gut told me that wasn't a very good deal and I could do better somewhere else, so I passed. I did get to handle them though, and I know I definately want one. Fit and finish seemed very similar on both of them. I don't think I'd be disappointed with either.

I'm thinkin of meeting this local guy and taking a look at the gun below. What do you guys think? good deal? Since it's all Bushmaster I'd still have the Bushmaster warranty, which would make me sleep a little easier.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=249194

[Jack19]

Sorry but, I have to ask. Why a M4 profile cut barrel?

Unless you're into adding a few hundred dollars in heavy accessories you'll likely not use, the M4 barrel cut is pretty useless.

IMO the "Cool" factor isn't there.

[joey93turbo]

I do plan on outfitting it with optics and a flashlight in the future.

[KW]

The only accesory that requires the M4 step cut barrel is the M203 grenade launcher - not a common accesory given the enormous price and paperwork required to own one as a civilian.

The advantage of the M4 vs. the HBARs that are common these days is weight - the M4 barrel is quite a bit lighter. True lightweight profiles are even lighter, but not as common.