[Ardent]

I'm toying with the idea of necking down a .50BMG case to .338, not Talbot style, but a short fat, WSM style case. Reason is I'd like to make a bench rest style case resembling of the 6mmBR and 6mm PPC in a .338 Lapua power range cartridge for precision long range shooting. The first angle of the 35 degree shoulder would be placed exactly 1.5" up the case from the base.

You can probably see where my questions arise now. How would I go about necking down the case to .338" in such a heavy and large part of the case? It will need to be inside reamed in order to be thin enough. Is this possible and where are the best tools to do it available to get the cases ready for fireforming?

Thanks!

[only1asterisk]

I think you could form the cases, but it might take a small swaging press and $1000 in one off forming dies (it gets expensive). I don't think the cases made you make (with such love and care that you name each one) will be as consistent as sorted and prepped 338 Lapua brass and that the whole ordeal will not gain you 1 iota of accuracy.

Otherwise I think it's wonderfull, post lots of pictures.

David

[Ardent]

Thanks David, I still would like to go ahead with this, another reason being the powder efficiency of the shorter, fatter cases, I just like the concept. I'm into 6mmBR and I thought why don't I make my .338 in the same concept?

I have also thought about having the brass custom made with my own headstamp (also very expensive), I would need to place quite a large order up front. I just need to decide how high of a priority this project is...

I am getting into toolmaking and have considered attempting to manufacture the case tools myself on a lathe and mill, but I really have no idea what I'd need to make as I don't have any prior experience with necking down cases this radically.

[larryw]

Ya' mean like this (http://www.cheytac.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductId=7)?

[mrkubota]

You might want to start with the M48 spotter/tracer case instead of the .50bmg. It's about an inch shorter to start with.
http://www.weaponsindia.com/50spotter.htm

You can get the brass from
http://www.hi-techammo.com/

[Ardent]

Nope, not like that at all larryw ;)

And thanks for the lead mrkubota, that could prove very useful.

[Standing Wolf]

How long before somebody necks down the .50 BMG to .22 caliber?

[atek3]

i'd like a shortened 20mm necked down to 50 cal, a short and fat fifty would be neat.

atek3

[taliv]

How long before somebody necks down the .50 BMG to .22 caliber?


heh, you mean, and survives to tell us about it? God only knows how many times it's been done in the past...


edit: that reminds me... i've been thinking about nesting a 223 to 30cal sabot into a 30cal to 50bmg sabot... no, wait... no i haven't. i haven't been thinking that at all.

[dakotasin]

How long before somebody necks down the .50 BMG to .22 caliber?


its been done... results were underwhelming.

[mrkubota]

i'd like a shortened 20mm necked down to 50 cal, a short and fat fifty would be neat.

I believe that was done by Gale McMillan as the 'Fat Mac'
Literally a barrel burner!
I think a back issue of VHP from the FCSA has it's story...

[Ardent]

mrkubota has turned me onto the .50 Spotter round and it looks like just the starting point I'm looking for. It will be a lot easier to neck down than the full length .50

Anyone know/can help me find a hundred pieces or more of .50 Spotter brass?

Pic courtesy of mrkubota:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/angusmo/.bmp

[only1asterisk]

Spotter brass isn't going to help, just cost more. I think gibrass.com should be able to help.

David

[50 Shooter]

Try River Valley Ordinance also www.rvow.com

Not sure if Pat's Reloading carries them www.patsreloading.com

Try this place also, Power Plus www.powerplusammo.com

[mrkubota]

Spotter brass isn't going to help, just cost more. I think gibrass.com should be able to help.

??? Virgin M48 spotter brass is the same price as virgin .50bmg brass.. at least from http://www.hi-techammo.com where I bought mine.

I've also corresponded with z-hat.com for custom 1.5" die sets and was quoted 425.00 plus 180.00 for a custom reamer if needed. This included an in-line seater.

CH4D makes custom dies too, and may well be a bit less expensive, but I've had a lot of trouble reaching them either by email or phone.

RCBS was willing to talk, but their custom shop's being remodeled right now, so work will have to wait a bit.

Lee does custom work too, but their heavy dies are 1.25" . So you'd have to buy their press too. Could be worth it if you don't already have a big 1.5" 50bmg press.

http://www.daplane.com/50bmg/50spotcomp.jpg

[mrkubota]

CH4D makes custom dies too, and may well be a bit less expensive, but I've had a lot of trouble reaching them either by email or phone.

Finally got ahold of CH4D and they were indeed much less expensive.
Around 300.00 per set and include a seater die as well.

[Zak Smith]

I recently saw a wildcat caliber which was a 50BMG case shortened and necked down to 0.408. It shoots the 400+gr 408 CheyTac bullets (0.9BC) at 3200fps.

[Strongbad]

Good luck on your project. Sounds like a neat idea, and it looks like you've got a good start as far as gathering together all of the pieces that you're going to need.

On a side note I thought I'd mention this, I don't know how much you're planning on shortening the case so this is just a guess, but 338/50 in it's standard form is very overbore and you could probably get the same performance out of something with a smaller case. Also, it's going to be ridiculously hard on barrels. Have you thought about a bigger bullet, like 375? Klaus Horstkamp (former owner of State Arms Gun Co.) made a gun that he called the Mach 5 that was a 50 necked down to 375. I think he was getting 4000 fps??? He had special hunting bullets that he made that he turned down from solid copper if I recall correctly.

Anyway, just a thought. If you stick with the short fat 50/338 make sure that you keep everyone abreast of your progress!

[The Bushmaster]

Holy cow...Ardent. Have you written your suiside note yet...??? :D

[Max Velocity]

http://img311.imageshack.us/img311/3126/forkers3us300wsm300winmag2uy.jpg

.3 US, 300 WSM, 300 Win Mag

You might contact Bob Forker about how he formed the brass.
(This photo could be a PhotoShop job)
Short Mags Article (www.gunsandammomag.com/techside/myth_0903)

[SB88LX]

That first round just looks ridiculous.

[Max Velocity]

Here's the missing photo

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/techside/GAmyth_0903A.jpg
Left to right: Forker's .3 US, a .300 WSM and a .300 Win. Mag. If the .300 WSM outperforms the .300 Win. Mag. because it is shorter and fatter, then the .3 US should run circles around the .300 WSM. At least in theory, says Forker.

[Zak Smith]

If the .300 WSM outperforms the .300 Win. Mag. because it is shorter and fatter
It depends on how "outperforms" is defined. Looking at pure muzzle velocity and downrange trajectory-- it doesn't.

Most of these WSMs try to trade off less velocity, for less recoil, less powder ($$), and more barrel life.

When shooting standard long-range bullets for 300WM, like the 190SMK or 210gr VLD, the 300WSM loses 50-150fps over the WM. You can step down to the 175 class bullets, but then you are losing a key parameter for long range shooting -- BC.

-z