FN Semi P90 & P2000 (pix)


PDA






HKrazy
January 29, 2005, 11:52 AM
At the Shot Show , FN did not have these on display but I was invited into their conference room and suddenly, in my hands, was the new civilian P90:
http://members.cox.net/ljt3/SHOT05/P90B.jpg

And F2000:
http://members.cox.net/ljt3/SHOT05/P2000.jpg

And as if that was not enough the rep told me they will be coming out with a semi version of the SCAR.

The P90 & F2000 should be out by fall and there is no date for the SCAR.

If you enjoyed reading about "FN Semi P90 & P2000 (pix)" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Crownvicman
January 29, 2005, 12:09 PM
Wow, those look great. Too bad because it's an FN product, I won't be able to afford it.

natedog
January 29, 2005, 12:21 PM
I pray for black stocks.

Soap
January 29, 2005, 12:24 PM
I haven't made a gun purchase in quite some time but I'm buying the F2000 ASAP.

Dmack_901
January 29, 2005, 12:30 PM
I pray for black stocks.
Yea, I really don't want to try dying that thing black.

Third_Rail
January 29, 2005, 12:46 PM
Wow!

They really did it! Impressive.


Now, if they're less than $2k each, they might get customers. :D

Skunkabilly
January 29, 2005, 12:51 PM
That's an F2000 not a P2000 (HK), right?

Neat gun!

boofus
January 29, 2005, 12:54 PM
Woo, nice pictures. I will drool in anticipation until these new FN toys come out. :o

RooK
January 29, 2005, 12:59 PM
What's with the gloss finish on the plastic? It looks horrid... good luck holding onto it with sweaty hands as well.

I'd really like that have the F2000 and the SCAR-H.

artherd
January 29, 2005, 01:09 PM
Those are f-ing sweet! :D :D :D :D

Domino
January 29, 2005, 02:49 PM
Cool, I wonder how much those F2000's are gonna go for? A P90 would be cool too, I hope FN doesn't chicken out and stays dedicated to this idea. It could be very profitable for them.

The Grand Inquisitor
January 29, 2005, 02:50 PM
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!


I really hope these come into the country in large numbers so that the price for them does not sky rocket to HK levels.

As stated above, if they are under 2K or so, they will be mine...especially the 2000.

MrMurphy
January 29, 2005, 06:17 PM
I still can't figure out where the 2000's bolt handle is.

Schuey2002
January 29, 2005, 06:36 PM
That "glossy plastic" is nothing that a little Rit Dye can't handle.. :neener:

Just what my HK SL8 & Glocks need, more plastic friends. I see a P90 in my future! :D

anapex
January 29, 2005, 06:48 PM
Are they going to have standard 50 round mags for us "civvies" for the P90?

PMDW
January 29, 2005, 07:09 PM
Are they going to have standard 50 round mags for us "civvies" for the P90?

They already exist. They're called "P90 mags". :)

BTR
January 29, 2005, 07:44 PM
Wow! Are these importable???

Onmilo
January 29, 2005, 07:51 PM
Perfect, now I have three rifles, 2000, P90, and a PTR91 to buy.
I also am looking to buy a 5.7 handgun and a C96 Mauser.

Kenshin
January 29, 2005, 07:53 PM
Sigh, another gun that a comrade of CA can only look at...

BlkHawk73
January 29, 2005, 08:00 PM
I'm not an "assault rifle" guy but I kinda like that P90. :cool: Wasn't aware they were that size. Thought them to be larger. They (FN) will have this market niche all to them selves. I am kinda :uhoh: about the prices since they will have that entire niche. At lest the quality should be there with it being a FN.

PMDW
January 29, 2005, 08:10 PM
Wow! Are these importable???

Doesn't matter. FN has a plant in South Carolina.

armoredman
January 29, 2005, 08:37 PM
Did anyone catch a MSRP?

Dave Markowitz
January 29, 2005, 08:53 PM
That P90 doesn't look as dorky with the longer barrel as I had feared it would.


Hmmmm. Can I get a Stargate along with it? If not, I'll settle for LTC Carter. :D

PMDW
January 29, 2005, 08:53 PM
A few weeks back I heard around or under $1,500. Not sure how accurate that was, though.

Dmack_901
January 29, 2005, 08:59 PM
http://www.gtdist.com/ProductDetail.aspx?PartNumber=FN-3818900141

Ours will probably be a tad more, but shouldn't be much.

Gewehr98
January 29, 2005, 09:08 PM
They would use plastic that didn't look so cheap! Maybe a matte clearcoat, or a texture finish, would that be asking a lot?

I guess if one can spend that kind of coin on a plastic gun, one can go to WalMart and get a can of Krylon Fusion for Plastic spray paint to finish the job. :D

anapex
January 29, 2005, 09:10 PM
They already exist. They're called "P90 mags".

Yeah I guess what I meant is are they going to be easily available.

Third_Rail
January 29, 2005, 09:21 PM
Anapex, they already seem to be. The reason they aren't advertised is you really didn't have any use for them until now.

HKrazy
January 29, 2005, 09:35 PM
The semi P90 will come with 30 round magazines.

The 50 round mags are LE only by company policy.

The P90 and F2000 will be available in grey, green and tan.

PMDW
January 29, 2005, 09:46 PM
The semi P90 will come with 30 round magazines.

The 50 round mags are LE only by company policy.

FN just made my bad list. Gun companies alienating customers seems to be a new trend.

mcooper
January 29, 2005, 09:57 PM
So the us civvies can't have the 50 rounders.

I won't buy an FN product until they change their stupid policy. It's too bad...I wanted a P90 :rolleyes:

Third_Rail
January 29, 2005, 10:17 PM
I'm not buying one if it uses only 30 rd mags.


They'll lose a lot of business if that's their opinion.... people don't like buying neutered guns.

Harry Tuttle
January 30, 2005, 10:42 AM
i have heard
P90 $1350
F2000 $1650

Third_Rail
January 30, 2005, 11:34 AM
Whoop-te-doo.

Without real colored plastic and full capacity mags, it's not going to sell, just like the SL8 didn't sell much.

Kaylee
January 30, 2005, 11:41 AM
oooh... I like the 2000!

(Of course, it'd also be kinda cool in electric blue-black with teckky tengwar writing on it, looking like a spacegun and all. :p )

mamba
January 30, 2005, 11:50 AM
Yeah, what do they think they are doing limiting our mag choices. I guess we will have to buy a H&K or Colt....... ;)

natedog
January 30, 2005, 12:35 PM
BTW, does the FN2000 use AR-15 magazines?

Kinda sucks about the 50 round magazines, but I'm sure there'll be some dealers who'll get them out to the public. Who's stupid idea was that? Anyways, if the magazines are blocked, it shouldn't be that difficult to remove.

Glock Glockler
January 30, 2005, 12:51 PM
What is to stop some other company from producing aftermarket 50 rounders for us?

Luckyorwhat
January 30, 2005, 01:49 PM
HKrazy:
"The semi P90 will come with 30 round magazines.
The 50 round mags are LE only by company policy.
The P90 and F2000 will be available in grey, green and tan."

I wouldn't dump on FN yet, there may be reasons to the decision. Where I live 10 rd mags is the max, so the whole discussion is like debating Star Trek to Star Wars, relatively.

Perhaps FN had to made that announcement as a pre-emptive strike, limit yourself before they impose limits on you?

About the barrel length on P90, what the hell? So the ammunition has been nerfed, and the barrel extended. Wasn't the gun designed around the bullet? It seems to me that the barrel length was appropriate for the round, and a longer barrel may have the same effect it does on a 9mm - slow the bullet down.

PMDW
January 30, 2005, 01:49 PM
What is to stop some other company from producing aftermarket 50 rounders for us?

Nothing. And I'm sure P90 mags could be found and purcahsed without too much work. But it's the point of it.

I feel dirty for buying an FNC, now.

Telperion
January 30, 2005, 02:09 PM
No authentic furniture
30 round mags only, "by policy"
SS192 ammo no longer being imported, again, "by policy"

What gives, FN? :confused:

Schuey2002
January 30, 2005, 02:33 PM
>>"I still can't figure out where the 2000's bolt handle is."<<

It's on the other side. :)

http://dboy.cpgl.net/fn/f2000/tw_f2000_std_l.jpg

artherd
January 30, 2005, 03:03 PM
I wonder what the 5.7x28's ballistics look like out of a 16" bbl! I bet they're decent, the cartridge has a LOT of powder behind it! (most unlike the 9mm.) I predict over 2700fps.

Do I hear 'car/truck gun!?'

PS: these 'polocies' need to change. And, make it in black.

Third_Rail
January 30, 2005, 03:29 PM
I just realized that since it's a thumbhole stock, it's not a pistol grip....


To ban these without banning them by name, they'd have to ban a whole lot of different rifles.


Could be good or bad.

jefnvk
January 30, 2005, 03:30 PM
Sweet!

Now, if only I can get out of college, get a job and afford one of these :uhoh:

Oh well, three years isn't too long to wait :banghead:

Master Blaster
January 30, 2005, 03:37 PM
Bottom eject or switchable ejection???

when will they make them in .223 for us civilians???

GunnySkox
January 30, 2005, 03:43 PM
"I just realized that since it's a thumbhole stock, it's not a pistol grip....

To ban these without banning them by name, they'd have to ban a whole lot of different rifles.

Could be good or bad."

Not entirely so, as I understand it.
Disclaimer: My information comes from my brother, a law student in his final semester at Richmond University.

According to aforementioned sibling, the term "conspicuously protruding pistol grip" means any grip that places the web of the hand (that bit of extraneous flesh that stretches out if you make your thumb and index finger into an "L") beneath the bore-axis of the firearm. So, a Garand doesn't have a pistol grip because holding its grip involves having your thumb, thus, the web of your hand, over the top of the grip, in line with the action; however, your SL-8 does have a pistol grip, because your whole hand is beneath the bore-axis of the weapon.

Note: I don't remember if it was "bore axis" or the action of the weapon, specifically.

~Slam_Fire

Harry Tuttle
January 30, 2005, 03:56 PM
the f2000 is front eject via a ejection tube:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11064

HankB
January 30, 2005, 04:32 PM
BTW, does the FN2000 use AR-15 magazines? FN's website says it does.

That "front eject" looks kind of funky . . . I wonder how well it works.

WHY are they molding the stocks in odd colors? Black is ideal. I hate the idea of laying out some serious $$$ for a gun, and then having to paint the stock to make it look right. (Dittos to the above comments on no 50 rd mags.)

MAKOwner
January 30, 2005, 06:15 PM
Man the F2000 looks awesome without the funky fat sight setup the factory puts on them in most of the pics of the military models. Looks downright mean with a smaller reddot setup on it. Looks almost straight out of HALO 2... More than looks it would seem to be a sweet handy small package, I want one if it turns out to decently reliable (the ejection tube stuff I'd read about before, seems to me like it could be troublesome)...

LiquidTension
January 31, 2005, 12:21 AM
No problem with importing, as the plant is located in Columbia, SC. I've been there :) Bought a Hi-Power MkIII directly from the factory for $397.95 including tax. My dad went back and got a compact for the same price. This was about 2 years ago, me thinks.

Yeah, their policy about the mags is ridiculous. Thing is, there is no actual law regulating them, so there's no reason why a dealer can't order some LE mags and sell them to you. Black stocks would be much better, but I'll settle for grey if that's all they offer. I'd love to have the P90! Now, if only someone would start making reloading components for the 5.7 :fire: If not, then a source of ammo for less than $17/box would be nice.

I've never had the opportunity to handle either of these weapons, so I have a question. Why is the back end so beefy? I mean, it doesn't appear that there are any moving parts or anything in the butt since it's behind and below the mag. Couldn't they have made it more of a skeleton and cut out several cubic inches of material? Like on the 2000, could the stock be cut from behind the mag up to the butt plate?

It would be nice to cut down the bbl on the P90 and make it a SBR.

Luckyorwhat
January 31, 2005, 03:31 AM
Cheeky answer - where else will keep your lunch warm?

Answer I heard - 'Windswept' look means it is easier to bring to bear, or climb out of a vehicle with etc., as it won't catch on obstructions as often.

Bartholomew Roberts
January 31, 2005, 10:11 AM
WHY are they molding the stocks in odd colors? Black is ideal. I hate the idea of laying out some serious $$$ for a gun, and then having to paint the stock to make it look right.

Actually, take a look at the specifications for the XM8 or SCAR finishes. They usually specify a brown base coat for the rifle. Some other countries have specified green or gray. Military units are getting away from black because it serves as too much of a target indicator - particularly with night vision or thermal.

I imagine FN is just anticipating this trend on the military side and offering it to the civilian side as well.

mamba
January 31, 2005, 10:20 AM
Bingo.... ;)

MrMurphy
January 31, 2005, 12:02 PM
That's the first good "left side" Pic I've seen where I could SEE the bolt handle on the 2000 where a grunt or something else wasn't in the way.


They borrowed the front eject from the old Maxim model 1904 machine gun I heard. It works. Old idea, new rifle. Wasn't really needed on the belt fed, but for a bullpup it makes sense.

The FN 2000 uses AR mags.

Harry Tuttle
February 1, 2005, 12:44 AM
de lefter side:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11065

the kniggly bits:

Clean97GTI
February 1, 2005, 03:53 AM
Telperion, last I heard, the SS192 was being discontinued in favor of a new round. The new round by some rumors will be called the SS196 and use a 40 grain V-Max bullet. Sounds pretty good in my book although I wonder if it will be as effective as the SS192.

Oh, to the poster on the first page who said FN would be out of the price range...the FN gun I own (The Forty-Nine) is better quality IMHO than most Glocks and cost me considerably less. FN seems to make excellent quality guns at just under other makers (Glock, Sig, HK, Colt) prices.
If FN makes it, I'll consider it before those guys. Just my personal take on things. If FN can sell the F2000 at the $1600 price tag I've read about, they might be able to drop prices a bit. Hopefully, they'll win a govt contract somewhere and be able to up production. Prices drop and the AR platform begins to look passe in the light of the new plastic fantastic...oops, sorry. I jumped into a dream sequence. FN will manage to screw it up.

Correia
February 1, 2005, 06:55 PM
I got to see these also. They didn't put the civillian ones out in public, but rather had them stashed in the booth.

The 30 round P90 mag has nothing to do with legality, but is instead a marketing thing. They tried to explain it to me, and I don't think I understood. 30 rounds was just considered the normal amount for a black rifle. For some squirly reason they thought 50 would be bad. Beats me. Cool little gun though.

For the poster who said that black is where it is at. Haven't you heard? Brown is the new black. :p Black gets hot in the sun. Black is a great target indicator.

The plastic doesn't look shiny in person. It doesn't look chintzy either. I was impressed with the F2000. I look forward to getting my hands on one and shooting the heck out of it to see if it will have any issues.

Black Snowman
February 1, 2005, 07:13 PM
Black gets hot in the sun. Ya, it's hard to shoot well when you can smell your skin sizzilling. Almost as distracting as feeling the nerves in your hands and cheak burn away ;)

What happened to bluing and wood? Need some nice quilted walnut for the P90 :p

c_yeager
February 2, 2005, 03:02 AM
About the barrel length on P90, what the hell? So the ammunition has been nerfed, and the barrel extended. Wasn't the gun designed around the bullet? It seems to me that the barrel length was appropriate for the round, and a longer barrel may have the same effect it does on a 9mm - slow the bullet down.

Well, even .22LR needs about 16" before it even thinks about slowing down. I suspect you would need about 3 feet of barrel before you had to worry about it with the SS192 (or 9mm for that matter).

Nightfall
February 3, 2005, 12:18 AM
*drool*

Still don't understand the 30 round limit. Doesn't seem to be a PC thing, because 30 rounds is hardly low capacity. On the other hand, I don't understand how lower capacity could be good for marketing. As mentioned, gunnies don't like neutered firearms. Very confusing. :scrutiny:

atek3
February 18, 2005, 11:27 PM
Why do H&K and FN seem to hate civilians. Occasionally the toss a bone to the evil crazy american gun nuts in the form of a neutered "combat weapon". But seriously, they need to understand that any gun the police can own, civi's should own too.

atek3

jmilliron
February 19, 2005, 02:37 PM
Oh, glad I saw the F2000 isn't going to be super expensive. I'm going to have to save the rest of my tax return. :)

Stupid HK for not letting me buy a rifle.

-jason m

DougCxx
February 20, 2005, 07:25 AM
The P90 does look techno-cool, but that's quite a sum of money for a gun in a caliber that ummm, , -well, , , , -how can I say, , , ehhhh, , -costs a lot but isn't good for much of anything.
Aside from recreational shooting of course.
That being the type, which is most of what I do. But I don't know how enthusiastic I'd be about paying P90 prices for a gun and then still having to pay five-seven prices for ammo. For a purely-recreational arm, it seems to me like either the gun or the ammo should be reasonably inexpensive.....
~

beerslurpy
March 8, 2005, 09:32 PM
Because HK and especially FN make tons of money from government contracts. I know that FN makes a significant portion of the US's small arms as well as those for many of our allies. HK is in a similar position because of the MP5, G3 and pistols.

The round discontinuation is entirely for the reason of playing musical chairs vs the gun grabbers. Every time they say "oh the ss### round penetrates vests" FN can say "oh we discontinued that round and only sell the ss###+1 round to civilians now." If anyone is worried about the velocity being nerfed from the short barrel, its not like someone cant go create a hotter carbine load for the P90 like the ruskies did for the old ppsh41 smg and tok pistols respectively.

The barrel lengthening is entirely to comply with NFA regs, obviously.

The mag shortening defies comprehension, but its possible they might just be trying to provide themselves a way out if they get called on producing the "HIGHEST CAPACITY CONCEALABLE COP KILLING GUN EVAR!!!!1111!!!!" and they can just say "oh but its just a 30 rounder just like the AR15 and AK47 which already exist and are more powerful, and the gun is sold as a rifle anyway, so its not concealable, duh." This seems like the most reasonable explanation.

The F2000 seems overpriced to me. However, I really like it because of the small size (what length is the barrel? 16? 20?) and the probably decent muzzle velocities compared to the 14 inch and smaller M4s.

Bigfoot
March 8, 2005, 11:35 PM
Barrel length is just under 16". http://www.fnherstal.com/html/Index.htm

Beren
March 10, 2005, 10:47 AM
Argh. Now I WANT WANT WANT an F2000.

And here I just sent in a Form 1 to SBR an AR I own. Oh well, it's all good.

Yes, I'm also starting to lust after a SCAR. Fortunately (for my wallet) it doesn't sound like we'll see a SCAR this year.

Has anyone fired an F2000 yet? I've heard that must bullpup rifles have disgusting triggers.

jmilliron
March 11, 2005, 04:08 AM
Has the select fire version of the F2000 been deployed anywhere?

If you enjoyed reading about "FN Semi P90 & P2000 (pix)" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!