[SnubbyMan]

I have recently wanted to get a Colt Detective Special.

Can someone tell me about all the differences between the various generations (such as available finishes, sights, triggers, years of production, etc.)? Can any of the generations handle +P ammo? I tend to favor the LSWCHP +P round.

Is there a generation and/or configuration that is generally considered Colt's "best," as far as quality? This will be a "working" gun, not a "safe queen."

Any and all information would be greatly appreciated!

[dfariswheel]

The Colt Detective Special started off life in 1908 as the Colt Police Positive Special.
In 1927, Colt fitted the PPS with a 2" barrel, named it the Detective Special and history was made.

The Detective Special became just that: the chosen pistol of detectives, undercovers, off duty cops, and anyone wanting a powerful, concealable gun.
The DS was so popular, few police carried any other small gun.
S&W didn't even bother making a competing model until the Chief's Special of 1950.

The "generations" of the DS depends on what your definition of generation IS.

As example, the very earliest DS's had square butts. In the early 1930's Colt changed it to the famous round butt.
Is the square butt a different generation than the round butt.?

Most people follow this format:
First Generation.
Made from 1927 to the early 1950's. This model has a full profile steel grip frame, the 2" "skinny" barrel, and a slightly shorter ejector rod. Grips are checkered walnut with Silver medallions, and fit flush with the frame all the way around.

Second Generation.
In the early 1950's Colt introduced the aluminum frame Cobra and Agent. The Agent had a short "stubby" grip frame to save even more weight.

In the 1960's, Colt changed all their "D" frame revolvers to the same short frame design to simplify production.
This new generation DS had the short butt, with checkered walnut grips that followed the grip frame on the front and back, but overlapped on the bottom to provide a full sized grip. Early grips still had Silver medallions, later grips were Gold.
The ejector rod was lengthened.

Third Generation.
In 1972 Colt redesigned the DS to add a heavy weight barrel with a shroud over the ejector. The front sight was changed to a long ramp design.
The grips were changed to a wrap-around "combat" design which left the back-strap open, but filled the front of the grip in.
The grips had checkered panels, but no medallions.
This was the first DS to be rated for +P ammo.

"Fourth Generation".
There really is no Fourth Gen DS since all later DS's were simple the Third Gen design with different types of grips, depending on when made.
It was during the 1990's that Colt began a wild pattern of introducing models discontinuing them, then re-introducing them in a bewildering swirl.
The DS was discontinued, several years later new DS's were produced from spare parts, the gun was again discontinued, then re-introduced and made from new-production parts.

Finally, in the late 1990's, the Colt Detective Special was discontinued for the last time, and replaced by a new model gun made with an entirely new action featuring a transfer-bar system. This gun was built of stainless steel, and was called the "SF" frame.
Guns in this series were the SF-VI, the DS-II and the Magnum Carry.

The only original Detective Special model that was factory-authorized for +P ammunition was the post-1972 heavy shrouded barrel guns.
Early versions rated the gun for "up to" 3000 rounds of +P ammo, at which point the gun was to be returned to the factory for inspection, and "possible frame replacement".

Later, in the 1990's the standard was changed to "factory inspection every 2000 to 3000 rounds".

From the standpoint of collecting, the pre-war DS is most desirable.
For a shooter, the post-1972 shrouded barrel models are the best, due to better strength.

The Colt DS was offered in a variety of finishes running from the standard blue and bright nickel, to later finishes like Electroless nickel, also known as Coltguard.

Barrel lengths were 2" and 3".
There were some DS's made in the 1990's that had double action-only spurless hammers, front sight inserts, and Zebra wood grips.

Like all Colt's the Detective Special could be special ordered with about any custom features the buyer was willing to pay for, but production guns varied very little.

[Standing Wolf]

All I can add is that these little guns can have wonderful triggers and be surprisingly accurate. Once upon a time, Colt made the best.

[SnubbyMan]

dfariswheel, thanks for that great overview! It was exactly what I was hoping for.

I would love to collect a first generation DS at some point. I'm thinking as far as a working gun though, I'm probably going to begin looking into the Magnum Carry. Is there some kind of resource where I can find out what configurations that was offered in from the factory (production vs. custom shop)?

[The Rabbi]

the Magnum Carry's are pretty expensive, in my experience. The DS's, esp the shrouded versions, are a lot cheaper.
I just got one (today) and havent shot it yet. The trigger feels a little flabby but that may just be the gun and some work will get it back.
Yeah. Once Colt actually was interested in competing in the domestic gun market.

[dfariswheel]

The "SF" framed Colt's like the Magnum Carry were only produced for a short period of time, so there's not much in the way of variation.

The SF-VI (that was the name of the first SF model) came in only .38 and only in a 2" barrel ***(See note at end)

The DS-II was available in .38, and with 2", 3", and a VERY few 4" barrels. It was available in a "Special Lady" version with a polished finish, and with spurless hammers.

The Magnum Carry was available in only .357 and only in a 2" barrel, "possibly" a VERY few 3" barrels.

**NOTE: Colt was going through some WILD changes during this time, and they may have made other option "SF" revolvers, in VERY short runs.

Due to the limited time it was available, the low production, and the caliber, the Magnum Carry is being actively hunted by both collectors AND shooters.
Consequently, prices are high, to SKY-high.

[Marshall]

Damn, dfariswheel you know sheeit about these baby's. :what:

Great info! Thanks! :D

[rWt]

Will someone please post photos? Thanks. Dick

[Tacoma]

Excellent write-up. SO,..... if i knew where there was a 3rd-4th gen DS in 95%+ for $250 would I be nuts not to go get it??

[Peter M. Eick]

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/colts2.jpg

Biggest brother on top is the Python.
Big brother is in the middle with is the diamondback.
and baby brother is the Detective special on the bottom.


(I replaced the wood with pachymers to be just like the "kin".)

[Preacherman]

Tacoma, at that price, in good condition, if you don't rush out NOW and buy it, the THR moderators will collectively beat you to death with organic broccoli!!!

:what:

I've not seen a DS at that price for years! I own a 3rd-generation DS and a Cobra, and got them at good prices, but nothing south of $300, and I've seen excellent-condition guns like mine go for prices in the $450 range. Grab that one, quick - or if you don't want it, kindly PM me with the details of where to buy it. If you tell anyone else, of course, I'll have to shoot you... :D

[Thirties]

A Colt Detective Special of the 2nd issue from 1966 (rubber grip panels are new). Note the longer extractor rod, and the older style front sight.

http://jellison.50megs.com/images/dsg1.jpg

[mcmoyer]

Nice little family you have there Peter!!

:D :D :D

[Bullet Bob]

Here's a mid-60's model, great little gun.

http://fototime.com/ED426538D2E73E1/standard.jpg

[Checkman]

I own a 3rd generation. The serial number shows that it was manufactured in 1973. It's a great little wheelgun.

[dghuppert]

Here are my recently acquired Colts- 4" and 3" DS-IIs and a Magnum Carry.
Haven't shot any of them yet. MC is NIB, probably won't shoot it. The 3" is LNIB and will stay that way, 4" has had some use and I'm anxious to put a few rounds through it.
Darnell

http://www.hunt101.com/img/266281.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/img/261223.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/img/264237.JPG

[Lone Star]

Dfariswheel has it about right, but the long extractor rod dates from 1958. The square but went round in 1933.

S&W tried to compete from 1933 with the snub M&P/Model 10, but until the 1950 Chief's Special, the Colt had a size advantage for a concealment gun.

Lone Star

[PX15]

I don't have a Detective Special, but I have 2 Cobra's. I also have a couple of J-Frame Smiths and I enjoy shooting the Cobra's much more. I just like the trigger action and overall feel of the Colt's. Both of mine are older versions, but they still are a pleasure to shoot, and very accurate. I have one in my El Camino, and we have one stashed for easy access in the kitchen.

You can put a set of Barami "hip grips" on them and they just disappear in your waistband.

Excellent pistols.

Best Wishes. :)

[Ric]

Mine was made in '78
The manual says no +P
I put some badger grips on it due to the tendency to beat up my middle finger with the trigger guard.
I really like this gun, shoots great for it's size, accurate, locks up like a "bank vault"


http://img22.exs.cx/img22/1749/detspcbadgergrip6ou.th.jpg (http://img22.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img22&image=detspcbadgergrip6ou.jpg)

[Dr.Rob]

The Custom shop offered two variations of The DSII/Magnum Carry that I've seen.

One was a glossy stainless finish with hard slim rubber grips, a bobbed hammer, action job and a tritium insert front sight. I think this was called the "Colt Special Lady" and came in a felt pouch.

The other was a a de-horned bead-blasted model with a bobbed hammer and slicked up action.

I've seen a handful of 3 inch DSII's but never a 3 inch Magnum Carry.

The 70's DS was a much better built revolver than the SF-VI/Mag Carry/DSII.

I paid just over $425 for my Mag Carry, I've seen them selling for $600 these days, if and when you can find one. The magnum Carry was made ONE year only, 1999.

[sm]

I have a 1928 model.

Mine has a bit of character , and I wonder about the stories it could share if it could. Whatever it has been through or seen...still knows how to find the center of target in tight groups. :)

Preacherman "may" still have a picture of mine. A picture without stocks. If still on a flashdrive I could sentd that pic to Preacherman and have him post it.

[DHart]

I have two "4th edition" Detective Specials... both recently purchased LNIB. I instantly fell in love with this little gun. Very close to the size of a J-frame, but offering 6 shots and a really accurate, comfortable to shoot gun.

http://www.legendportraits.com/Images/Guns/DetSpl_LF1565.jpg

http://www.legendportraits.com/Images/Guns/DetSpl_LFC1564.jpg

At present one is a safe queen and the other is a regular carry piece. The carry piece is wearing a beautiful pair of rosewood Badger grips which really look stunning on the deep blue finish. I'll make some pics of it one of these days.

I also have a 3" DS-II on the way (thanks to my friend Darnell!)

I have considered getting a magnum carry and may still do so if I can find one for a decent price. What puts me off is the high price and the fact that I would still choose to shoot .38 spl +P 135 gr. Gold Dot ammo in it (not .357), so I really don't have a "need" for .357 chambering in a gun that small. This leads me back to realizing that the Detective Special with it's +P capability is about as good as it gets.. offers everything I like from a small Colt snubby. They are without a doubt my absolute favorite "small" revolver. I have a few S&W J-frames (642, 60, 640) and they're great little guns too, but they don't make me proud like the DS does. I think I may just buy a third Detective Special! ;)

[dghuppert]

Don,
You're a difficult man to keep up with...so many forums, so little time.
I keep looking at your Detective Special and it makes me want one even more. Okay, I'm only going to post this here, just to see how long it takes for you to call or email me.

How about you give up that safe queen Detective Special you've got? We could maybe(and I do mean just maybe) work a deal for the Magnum Carry, or, or better yet, a 586-4 with the short tube! I think you know which one I speak of.
Talk to you soon,
Darnell

[DHart]

Darnell... didn't take me long, did it? ;-)= Yes, let's consider the possibilities. There are always ways for each of us to find what makes us happy... I sent you an e-mule.

Just so you know... there ain't nuttin' like a cherry blue steel Detective Special! ;)

[rWt]

You guys are absolutely amazing-both in terms of knowledge and personal collections!

How can you tell the different periods apart when looking at a gun at a gun show? is there a serial number range that correponds to the generations?

Thanks,

Dick

PS Dhart-stop it please. I have already bought one handgun because of your pictures (S&W 3" 65). Now I want a DS too.

[Vern Humphrey]

My DS is from the '60s, with a parkerized finish.

I shoot +P in this gun, and have no problems -- although I shoot a lot more powder-puff loads (148 grain wadcutter driven by 2.7 grains of Bullseye.)

[DHart]

Dick... I really don't like guns at all.. I'm just tryiing to do something to help keep the economy going! ;) Guess it's working a little anyway.

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
----------------------------------
Dick... I really don't like guns at all.. I'm just tryiing to do something to help keep the economy going! Guess it's working a little anyway.
---------------------------------

Dhart -- it's a match made in heaven. You don't like guns, but want to keep the economy moving. I DO like guns, but don't have enough money to buy all I want.

So here's the deal -- YOU buy the guns and *I* will keep them, shoot them, and otherwise enjoy them.

Want me to email you a list of the guns you should buy for me? :p

[DHart]

Vern... yes, give me your address so I can ship the ones I already have over to you... they're so bothersome and take up so much space! ;)

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
-------------------------------
Vern... yes, give me your address so I can ship the ones I already have over to you... they're so bothersome and take up so much space!
------------------------------

Send all the guns you have to 3303 Sunny Fox Road, Mountain View, AR 72560.

You might as well send all accessories, like cleaning gear, scopes, reloading presses and dies -- I have a big basement and a lot of storage space. :p

For the future, buy Colt revolvers and automatics, Model 99 Savages, Pre-'64 Model 70 Winchesters, and Lefever side-by-sides. :D

[TheDutchman]

I have two DS,a Second Gen and Third Gen.
Have a neat story about the 2nd gen is I walking to a Gun store here in Austin and they had the 2nd gen DS which I named is O'Malloy after purchase. It had been sitting at the shop for some months due to the price of the gun.I waited for another 4 months and went back and they still had it, the story on the gun was a older lady's husband died and she sold his guns to the store. Apparently he purchased it in the sixties ,put it in the top of there closet and never fired it. It came with the box and papers. The price was $400 not too bad I think it was a great find. The 3rd GEN it is also new and unfired with out the box for $325

[sm]

Vern Humphrey,

Been meaning to travel up your way. I volunteer to assist with the inventory and arranging of any firearms rec'd by you...

...you really don't want "too many" duplicates now do you? I volunteer to alleviate you of duplicates.

1911s, Model 94, Model 70 in .308. '06, Old K frames in blue , Det. Spls...

Your Welcome. :)

[rWt]

DHart-I'll help you out.

Just send me the guns that you currntly have. Think of the fun you'll have replacing/upgrading them...and shopping for Vern.

Of course, if you see a nice Purdy or H&H double rifle, rook gun or SXS, cased London dueling pistols, a Hawkins or the like, my birthday is coming up.

Save the triple locks for Christmas, please.

Dick

[dghuppert]

Don,
You should really let me help you out. You wouldn't even have to ship them, I'll come pick them up! :) Would have to bring the Excursion though, the saddlebags on the Volusia aren't big enough!
Darnell

[DHart]

Isn't it great... the friends you make on the forums... you guys are so dang generous and helpful... I just don't know what I'd do with these dang guns if it weren't for folks like you! :D :scrutiny: I appreciate all the offers... ;)

Darnell, I'd have to give you first opportunity. What the heck, ride the Volusia... good excuse to make several trips!

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
--------------------------------------
Been meaning to travel up your way. I volunteer to assist with the inventory and arranging of any firearms rec'd by you...

...you really don't want "too many" duplicates now do you? I volunteer to alleviate you of duplicates.

1911s, Model 94, Model 70 in .308. '06, Old K frames in blue , Det. Spls...
-------------------------------------

Well, there's no such thing as a duplicate M1911 -- I just put .22 conversion kits on the ones I don't carry concealed. :-)

Model 94s? Well, the first Pre-'63 I get, I keep. Model 70s in .308? Okay, but if we get too many, I start rebarreling them.

Smiths -- I don't have any. Should I?

[DHart]

Quote:

"Smiths -- I don't have any. Should I?"

Vern... we need to have a little chit-chat. If you don't have any Smiths yet, be careful venturing into "Smith-country"... once you do, you'd better make a lot more room in the safe and cash in a few CD's... ;)

http://www.legendportraits.com/Images/Guns/66-4_LF1583.jpg

http://www.legendportraits.com/Images/Guns/M19rf_1090e.jpg

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
---------------------------
Vern... we need to have a little chit-chat. If you don't have any Smiths yet, be careful venturing into "Smith-country"...
----------------------------

I had a Smith one time -- found it in a sruvival pack in the wreckage of a crashed C-130. Gave it to my father-in-law, and it was stolen when his house was burglarized.

[BluesBear]

How can you tell the different periods apart when looking at a gun at a gun show? While they're divving up their loot, I'll try to answer.
These are just the basic differences.

First Generation guns have the long grip frame like a Police Positive. Standard for the era checkered wooden grips. I think the griops had the standard Colt medallions.

Second Generation has the shorter grip frame but still has the exposed ejector rod like most Colts. Thin, checkered, wooden grips with medallions or Coltwood® (plastic) grips with embossed logo.

Third generation had a shrouded ejector rod and recontured hand filling grips without medallions.

If I missed anything, or got it wrong, someone will speak up.

[guy sajer]

Here's a couple pics . 1st and 3rd Gen . Sorry , I'm not a photographer .

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3030

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=9536