Kace and, handguns?

I cant own a handgun of anykind until I'm 21. This happens in November. Assuming nothing jumps out at me(like an AK underfolder!) I think my "gun fund" is gonna be swelling from now till then. How much will that be? Good question, maybe 1500 bucks?

I want a CCW-able pistol for obvious CCW related bits.
I want either a CZ-75(or hi-power) or P99. My pops has a P99 and a 75' which I both love to shoot.
I'd love a revolver with a 4-6" barrel in a caliber I can get a levergun in.


So here we go, a CCW, a CZ75/P99/Hipower, and a Revolver. All for under 1500 bucks. Not 1501, or 1600. UNDER 1500. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

IMO, get a hi power, some nice holsters and a bunch of practice ammo. :D

My 2 cents.


'I rather have it but don't need it, than not have it when I need it'

Look into the Sig 239/225/245, Glock 36/26/27, Bersa Thunder 380, etc for the CCW.

I'd go with the 75 or Hi-Power for fullsized service gun, I don't like the P99.

For a revolver Rugers are nice. I have the GP-100 and it's a great gun for target shooting and short range hunting.

If #2 costs about $400 and a GP-100 is about $350 in like new condition, then you'd have enough money for a very nice Sig or a Glock AND another gun :cool:

I wish I had your kind of money. I got my first handgun, a Sig 228, by trading $350 worth of old stereo equipment (that I had forgotten I had) plus $80 cash. It was the best $80 I ever pulled out of my wallet.
If you consider purchasing used guns you can really stretch your money out. I got my GP-100 for $300 with only 12 rounds fired from a friend who was hard pressed for cash.

Is it Missouri law that prevents you from buying till 21, or a restriction from your family? Reason I ask is, when I was getting into handguns at 19, I was sure I couldn't buy. Then I found out the federal law applying to purchase of handguns was only applicable to FFL purchases. State laws may vary, so check yours out. If nothing prevents you from purchasing from a non-FFL, check out your local classified ads.

I'd love a revolver with a 4-6" barrel in a caliber I can get a levergun in.

Ok, Ruger GP-100 .357Mag, and a matching caliber Marlin or Winchester rifle. Under $400 new for the GP-100, leaves you a bunch ($1100) for the Marlin/Winchester, ammo and accessories. Probably about $500 for the rifle new, still have $600 or so for all the other stuff.

Missouri law says, no handguns till I'm 21. :(

Oh and please, no Ruger products.

Oh and if I'm wrong on the 21 deal. Who wants to sell me a Makarov FTF?

Most models of Kahr in 9mm and .40 S&W can be had in the under $600 range. A Hi-Power would be $600-700. That only leaves you with $200-300, darn. Well, a Taurus 460 in .45 LC would be about $400 or less, I think, so maybe a $400 CZ-75 instead. That would total to <$1400, with a CZ instead of a Hi-Power.

Edit: Oop! CDNN is selling FN Hi-Powers for $430.

If you can get a ccw for $600, I'll cover you on the Hipower (MarkIII, exc condition with 4 Browning 13 rd mags) and a S&W 4" Combat Masterpiece (VG condition, extremely accurate in .38 special) for $900 or so. :D Or maybe less......

Kahr PM9 for a CCW ($600)
CZ75/BHP ($450)
$450 left for a Wheelie.

I have the Kahr, BHP and CZ. Since the weather is cooler the PM9 is running BUG to a fullsize 1911. May use the big 9mms once I get some leather.

I'd try to find a used revolver for around $200 and use the last $250 for a belt, holster, etc.

My vote is a CZ of some flavor, leaving you $1000 for pretty much any revolver within reason and holster(s), magazines, ammo, etc . . .
For the revolver I'd recommend something you don't want, so I'll go to 2nd best, a S&W 629 or 29 in 44 Mag or a Taurus in .44 Mag. The Taurus might leave you enough money to get a good start on that lever gun.

Dont worry bout the levergun bit, that'll come in down the road.

Small pistols can be difficult to shoot. Try as many as you can beforehand. Matter of fact, shoot lots of other peoples' handguns, as many as possible.

You find out real quick which ones work for you and which don't.

Hard to go wrong with a CZ-75 or a BHP, though.

NMShooter has it right. Between now and November, go to ranges that rent handguns and shoot as many different models as you can. Learn which grip angles, sights, etc. work for you, and give you the best speed and accuracy. Then, buy one of those guns for your CCW.

CZ-75B 9mm ~ $400

CZ RAMI 9mm ~ $450

Wheelgun in .357 Magnum.

Lots of good choices, of course, besides these. The bonus here is that you can use your subcompact RAMI with full-size CZ-75 15-rd mags. Whatever handguns you decide on, use the rest of the money for holsters and ammo.

I cant rent handguns either. I cant even transport one in my car. So unless you guys with tons of handguns wanna go have a range day with me, and let me waste your ammo it'll hafta wait.

At the ranges where I live people under 21 (21 is the legal age for pistols) can shoot rental handguns as long as they are with their parent.

The HP has an advantage for ccw the others don't... namely a really skinny slide. You could get one heck of a CCW set-up, spare mages etc for $1000, and leave the other $500 to shop for a wheel gun.

I've seen some women limp wrist the HP in a way that's hard to explain.. (lady in question was NOT a newbie... ran Glocks, Sigs, Rugers with ZERO malf.s, jammed the HP EVERY shot... her husband and I ran magazine after magazine with the same HP with ZERO failures) you have to practice with it to make sure you can shoot it.

Go find some of the others in Missouri, like John Ross (hint, hint) and go shooting with them.

As Sam likes to say: Shoot lots, get good.

I want a CCW-able pistol for obvious CCW related bits. Missouri law says, no handguns till I'm 21.
Doesn't Missouri law also say no CCW until you are 25? :banghead:

WHAT!

You have GOT to be kidding me! I cant believe this! I cant get a CCW to I'm 25?


What the hell happens at age 25, do folks suddenly stop being bad folks? Am I supposedly more responsible and reliable at 25? This is just...I just cant believe this. :cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

Who the hell came up with this crap, what the hell precludes me from protecting myself in 4 years after I've got the right to own a CCW pistol! :fire: :fire:


GGGAAAAAAAHH!

Anger management, Weedhopper!

Yes, you probably will be much more mature and responsible in another 4 years. You'll be about 20% older than you are now. Are you more mature now than at 16? The growth continues (we all hope) :D

Until then (like all responsible CCWers), live a clean life, learn to avoid dangerous situations and confronations, and keep a level head. :)

Feel better? Sorry, I could not help myself....

I think there is more difference in a 25 and 20 year old than a 15 and 20 year old. But then again, I am only halfway between 26 and 27. I guess this is also sorta a case-by-case thing, I don't mean to stereotype, but on the whole I stand by my statement.

You should definitely take into consideration magazine and holster compatibility. If you get a CZ75, get a little CZ for your CCW, same caliber. I did that with Glocks (17,26) and its worked out really well. Easier on the shooter at least as far as repeatability of controls, and easier on the pocketbook cause you buy less gear. Or kill two with one stone by getting a High Power and using it as your CCW. Or go to a 3" or shorter revolver instead and use it as your CCW. If your CCW gun/CZ/HP is a 9mm, and you get a .357 revolver, you should really consider Ruger GPs, even if you have to hold your nose and buy a used one, Ruger makes moonclips to shoot 9mm thru them. That is a lot of IFs, but I thought I'd mention it. Some Smiths might have available moon clips. As a Blackhawk convertible owner, I can tell you that the 9mm/.357 option is nice if you have ammo laying around. Lever guns in .357/.38 are easy enough to find.
My advice? : Be patient. You have the time to find good deals on everything you said. Scour classifieds, prowl gunshops. Read SGN like its your bible. When you see a deal in a gunshop, try to get them to let you put down a deposit. Some gunshops that do lay-a-way will let you pay nearly the whole gun off before your B-day. I owed a dollar on my G26 on my 21st birthday, and Ron Dickinson, good soul that he is, who at the time worked at Larry's Pistol and Pawn,where I bought it, paid it off for me as a thoughtful B-day gift.

At the ranges where I live people under 21 (21 is the legal age for pistols) can shoot rental handguns as long as they are with their parent.
Here too. Or even with a responsible shooter that they know, even if its not your parent.

Yes, you probably will be much more mature and responsible in another 4 years. You'll be about 20% older than you are now. Are you more mature now than at 16? The growth continues (we all hope)
FWIW, I don't think that any of that is relevant. I was more responsible at 15 than many 25 year olds. Adult responsibilities = adult rights.

Like my state, your state is being drug kicking and screaming into the 21st century of CCW. They (the urbanites with voting majority) have a hard time dealing with reality and the laws will eventually be reconciled with basic human rights (as is being done with respect to other forms of discrimination and disrespect for human rights).

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Do not be patient! Do all that you can to change this bad law now.

Kace, The coyote without a cause. I humbly suggest that you now have a cause.

Go find some of the others in Missouri, like John Ross (hint, hint) and go shooting with them. I strongly endorse this suggestion, also. And read his book, Unintended Consequences.

So a handgun is now less dangerous than a rifle? Your telling me I cant do more damage with the Marlin 336 in 30-30 than I could with a makarov or a BHP?

Am I any less a citizen at 18 than I am at 21? I'm mature enough to decide if I wanna die for my country, I'm mature enough to be ISSUED the M9 service beretta. I can be entrusted with field artillery, fully automatic weapons and multi -million dollar weapon systems but low and behold I attempt to buy a lowly Makarov.


This Coyote has got his cause, and be assured everyone with a public office is gonna hear about it. :cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

I know it's not going to make you much happier, but it's 23 for a CHL in Missouri, 25 is New Mexico.

well better, but still unacceptable.

Longer to save!

And though I prefer the BHP to the CZ, a '75 is nice because you can use it to decide if you prefer DA or SA. Also nice and slim like the HP.


Larry

Kace, check out what out-of-state permits Missouri recognizes. IIRC, you can get a Florida out-of-state permit at age 21, and if MO recognizes this, you'll still be good to go.

Buy a P99 and use it for CCW. If you want something smaller get the P99 Compact. Check out www.Waltherforums.com. A poster there was saying he could get P99 Compacts for $485. Fullsize P99s can be had at CDNN from $459 to $479 depending on model. As far as revolvers go I have no advice for ya, I'm a wondernine man myself. Good Luck.

Looks like Missouri will honor pretty much any permit issued by any state.

You could get a non-resident North Dakota permit. You can get one of those at age 18. You need to have some test administered by an ND-certified instructor, though, and there don't appear to be any in MO.

Indiana and Iowa both issue at 18, but only give non-resident permits if you have a house or fixed place of business in the respective state.

Maryland's age requirement is 18, and they issue non-resident permits in theory but... :rolleyes:

New Hampshire has no age requirement, but you need to have a permit from your home state, or any other state first.

Maine issues to non-residents at age 18. It looks like you don't need to have an existing permit. Packing.org's info lists "Copies of concealed firearms permits issued by other states" under "required documents," but my reading of the state law seems to indicate that you only need to present those if you actually have any other permits.

That's all of the states with non-resident permits and "low" age limits. Maine looks to be your best bet.

I would make sure to double check on carrying with an out of state underage. I know some states (Co?) have in the law that they recognize other permits if the carrier is 21. So a 19 with a ND permit would be out of luck. No idea about Missouri but you will want to check.

PS
Have faith OK recently lowered the CCW age from 23 to 21.

I can't add much of anything to the good suggestions for centerfires...except to say that I recommend you get a .22 that's as similar to your CCW gun as possible (or get at .22 conversion kit). The price of .22 encourages a lot more practice.

You've mentioned the Makarov (Pistolet Makarova). It's a great handgun for the price, though it's not in my first --- or second, or third -- choice of calibers for self defense. If you get one, though, perhaps as a backup or spare pistol, you could buy a Bersa .22 for cheap practice.

Good luck in Missouri. I believe that the laws of your state can get even better, though MO has come a long way from the 19th century already!

All my best,
Bob

I want a Mak to satisfy my thing for Russian firearms. I'm an AK nut, a MN collector ect ect. So I want a Mak or two to complete the collection.

I think you'll like the Makarov. Don't sell it short as a backup or spare tool, though. The Mak is accurate and reliable, which puts it ahead of a lot of the handguns out there! :)

I hope you find room in your budget for a good .22. I think there's no handgun that's more fun to shoot, and it can really improve your overall handgunning skills.

Bob