[Justin]

Ok, I'll say first off that I really don't know beans about shotguns. Pistols have always been my #1 interest, and rifles are very quickly becoming a close second. However, shotguns are kind of mysterious to me, what with all the chokes, and different barrels, ammo, and such. However, I'm giving some thought to putting together a defensive shotgun on a budget.
In order of most important to least, this is what I think I would require:

1)ability to shoot slugs and pellets
2)short, but legal, barrel- 18 or 20 inches
3)ghost ring sites
4)weapon mounted light (probably the Surefire brand, though this is a purchase that will require some saving)
5)at least a five round capacity
6)a sling would be nice, but after reading some of Dave's commentaries, I don't think it would be a requirement.
7)Tritium front site? (I don't know how important that would be.)

Initially I thought that an autoloader would be the best way to go, but now I'd have to say that a Remington 870 presents the best bang for the buck.

Say I buy a used 870, how much would it cost to outfit it to the above specs?

Also, have I left anything out that is important, or included anything that isn't?

Thanks!

[Badger Arms]

Ability to shoot slugs or pellets: I wouldn't count this as a real asset. Get a smooth-bore and you can shoot slugs if you'd like. I find that it fits my peace of mind more to know what I'm getting each time I pull the trigger. During a life-or-death situation, I don't really want to be going through the mental process to decide which to use.

Short barrel: Yeah, I have a 21" barrel (turkey gun) on mine. I wouldn't suggest longer than that.

Ghost Ring Sights: Nope... most of the time you'll be instinctive shooting. If you HAVE to use a sight, keep it simple. The Bead is much better quicker than any other sight I have used. Besides, it sticks up on the receiver and takes up space. Spend the money on extra boxes of shotshells to practice.

Weapon Mounted Light: I agree, they are worth it. I'm too cheap to buy one but I've used them before. They are almost as important as the shotgun itself.

At least 5rd capacity: If you have the extra barrel length, get a reliable extension such as Choate or Wilson Combat. I have one installed on my HD gun that gives 3 extra rounds.

Sling: You'll probably never use it unless you live on a ranch or plan on hiking in to your shooting site. They just get in the way otherwise. I have swivel studs on mine because I do hike in. I take the sling off back home though and leave it off till my next range trip.

Tritium front sight: You don't need it. You're better off pointing from the hip.

These are all my opinion and open to debate. In reality, you'd do almost as well ignoring my opinions, but they're informed opinions and I walk the walk.

[Dave McCracken]

GR or peep sights are nice to have but not essential on a "Serious" shotgun.

Good work with slugs can be done out to 50 yards with a bead.

VISIBLE sight(s) are imperative. Tritium loses glow after a few years and requires a new insert. This takes bucks and time.

A dab of yellow paint on a bead holds up well and is renewed for pennies and in minutes.

Slings are risky inside the house, and nigh mandatory outside. Every HD shotgun's also a CD shotgun. Mine have slings studs installed and a sling nearby. Another rides in or on the Panic Box.

Target ID is crucial. A good weapon mounted light is advantageous. Good ones aren't cheap.

Must haves on a "Serious" shotgun include a good trigger around 4 lbs or less, a stock that fits w/ a good pad, and absolute reliability and durability.

Besides the hardware, the software has to be top grade. Practice and BA/UU/R....

Mine the Archives(TFL and THR) for some good input.

HTH....

[ruger357]

Mine is a 870 with a 18.5 smoothbore barrel.

[riverdog]

Mine is a Rem 870 w/ a 20" barrel with rifle sights (the old smooth-bore slug barrel) and a Wilson Combat single round extension. I am thinking about going with tritium sights because I like to aim and at inside you home distances, the shot doesn't spread that much. Mine has a good torso size pattern at 15 yards ( long shot in my home) with birdshot or buckshot. Like Badger said, forget the slugs; find a buckshot load that works for you in your home and firing zones and stick with that load. Determine how it patterns and practice. As Dave said "BA/UU/R" (buy ammo, use up, repeat) :)

[Joe Mamma]

Justin, that sounds good.

I don't know what your "home " is like but, I really think it is a good idea to have the ghost ring sights and sling. Is your home an apartment, townhouse, or a ranch on a hundred acres? Also, your home now could be different than your home in several years. Could you ever find yourself needing to use your shotgun defending the home of a family member that would present a different situation that what you envision now? You never know what kind of situation you will find yourself in. This shotgun sounds like it will be your primary weapon for a s--t hits the fan scenario. Like they say, chance favors the prepared.

Keep in mind that you can always keep the sling off until you need it. Also, the ghost ring sight will not be easy to add if and when you ever need it.

FYI, every ghost ring sight that I have seen for an 870 is (unreasonably) expensive. But, I have one on my gun.

Joe Mamma

[CMichael]

Justin IMHO a shotgun is the most fun firearm. I think it would be a shame to purchase one just to keep it under the bed.

I know I am not responding to your question but I highly suggest shooting trap and/or skeet with it. It's huge amounts of fun and will sharepen your skills if you ever need to use it for home defense..

What I did was get a Mossberg Persuader, 12 gauge, 20 barrel, extended magazine, and I got an optional 28" barrel.

[Justin]

Guys, thanks for the input, I appreciate it.
Regarding barrels, if you're going to shoot pellets (00 Buck, etc) the gun needs to be a smoothbore, right?
But can you still shoot rifled slugs with a decent amount of accuracy with a smooth bore?
With a setup like this, do I need to worry about chokes?

Regarding sighting systems, I don't have a problem with using a bead, but would eventually like to upgrade to the GR sights. I'm not sold on tritium sights because they have to be replaced and they can break.
How much would a decent set of GR's go for?

I'm probably going to see if I can pick up a used 870 at a decent price. Would it be better to hold out for one that is close to the configuration that I want, or should I be open to picking up an old turkey gun and then buy the parts to transform it into my mall-ninja special?

[Justin]

Joe- currently I'm living in a two story house, though that'll probably change to an apartment once I get out on my own. The place I live in now would be an absolute cast-iron mother to clear. I'd be much more likely to take the 'hunker down and wait' approach than to go room-to-room.

CMichael- I've always liked shotguns (despite not really knowing anything about them) and have enjoyed shooting clay birds on the few occasions the opportunity has presented itself. (Once in Boy Scouts and once in college.) I'd definately practice with any HD shotgun I purchased. Dave's BA/UU/R philosophy would apply to the shotty as much as it would apply to my defensive pistol.

But I don't think I can afford to get in on another game. I'm already serious about Bullseye, and have been getting increasingly serious about Highpower.

[El Tejon]

Justin, did you see my Wilson/ST 870 on the "El Tejon meets technology--hilarity ensues" thread? Sounds like what you want. They used to call it the "FBI Model". [Old geezer voice] Don't know about these days.

Anywho if protection of the Fashionable Bachelor Pad is major concern, what's wrong with a hammered double barrel or even H&R farmer's friend? Keep your E2 nearby and spray paint it black for added tacticality:)

[Dave McCracken]

Justin, choke is meaningless at typical HD ranges.

But, every HD shotgun is also a Community Defense shotgun, AND an outstanding recreational tool. Chokes for these are close to mandatory. Like someone said, shotguns are lots of fun, and use in one area leads to other uses.

There's a couple ways to put this tool together. One can pick up an older 870 and rework it,or plunk down the money on a new short barreled Police, Marine Magnum or Turkey Express. Using the older one may give you a weapon made under better QC. And an older one can be upgraded just one step at a time. Of course, an unaltered short 870 is a fearsome defensive tool.

As for cost, a case of ammo a month and a decent 870 ( or other Big Four pump) will run you much less than a Camp Perry target pistol and same amount of ammo, or a target grade M-1A, etc.
870s are cost effective. And figured on a cost per use basis, a very good investment....

[Justin]

Justin, did you see my Wilson/ST 870 on the "El Tejon meets technology--hilarity ensues" thread? Sounds like what you want. Did I see it? Man, I had to go get a roll of paper towels just to wipe the drool up! I checked the specs out on their website, and that thing is exactly what I want (and then some.) That would definately be something to pick up once I'm making the big bucks. However, for now I'd like to see how close I can get to that on a limited budget.
what's wrong with a hammered double barrel or even H&R farmer's friend? Keep your E2 nearby and spray paint it black for added tacticality *sigh* You know me all too well. (though the flashlight is the G2 Nitrolon model.:) ) The only point I can come up with against having a SxS or one of the H&R's is a lack of capacity. (Which is better? 1 or 2 rounds of 12 guage, or a bunch of .40?) <--Honest question, not trying to be a smarty-pants.:uhoh:
Of course, the same argument would apply to an 870 as well, so it may very well be a moot point.

[Justin]

But, every HD shotgun is also a Community Defense shotgun, AND an outstanding recreational tool. Chokes for these are close to mandatory. Like someone said, shotguns are lots of fun, and use in one area leads to other uses. So, for HD work, an 18.5-20 inch, chokeless barrel would be good, but it wouldn't hurt to have a longer barrel on hand for the occasions when I decide to shoot some trap?

I'd like to go the used route-pick up an older model, and then upgrade it as I can afford it. I'm also curious to find out about Police trade-ins. Where do you go to find these, and are they generally a good deal?

Regarding the cost of a shotgun vs. a target pistol or target rifle, I'm glad to hear it! (I have an interest in both, and lemme tell ya, it hasn't been kind to the old pocket book.)

[El Tejon]

Justin, .40 vs. birdshot. It depends--backstop, angle, etc., et al. Usually the less you shoot, the less your liability. All weapons have pros and cons. With a single shot shotgun you have the power of the shotgun, less weight, inexpensive and if it gets ripped off while your at the TV station, easy to replace. With practice you can reload these buggers pretty quick and for the money saved from not buying an ubertac weapon, you can buy a lot of rabbit shot.

Lots of used 870s around. Before I bought my STs/Wilsons, I bought a couple of S&W3000s from Kiesler's in Jeffersonville, Indiana (they have the big ads in Shotgun News). Paid $300 for them together. Sold them for $375 to the town of Battle Ground when it was time to "upgrade." Check around, you may have to use that Internet thingy they have these days.;)

[Dave McCracken]

A base line short barreled 870 is a great defensive tool. It also works well as a quail or grouse gun, sometimes disgruntling those folks who like the fancy doubles and so on.

Adding choke versatility with tubes or a longer tubed barrel makes it an outstanding upland shtoguns and more suitable for clay fun.

Warning, 870s do not breed, but they tend to propagate.

As for Police Tradeins, here in the People's Republik of Md, there aren't any. Agencies are required to destroy all older and suplussed weapon lest they foment rebellion and dissent. (Sarcasm mode off).

Other places may still treat tradeins as opportunities rather than Tools of the Darkness. Call your local shops and ask around.

Even new, an 870 costs less than a week's pay for a working man and will last longer than anything this side of Stonehenge. Cost effective? H*!! yes!

[V-fib]

My setup:

Moss 500 12ga pump 18"bbl
mag light mounted (2AA) and a laser
sidesaddle
2.5x scope with see through mounts (I have a variable choke bbl that I swap off for Turkey season so I leave the scope on and would use the see through mounts for up close work)

don't use a sling seems that it would get in theway.

I like the light field loads for HD I also have some 00buck on a nylon butt mount

:cool: