[Jim Diver]

http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty28.htm
http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty29.htm

[Justin]

I'm sorry, but I just can't take any website seriously that advertises books on how to survive the coming collapse.

[OpenRoad]

Wouldn't that be the best place to advertise them?

AFAIK Al Franken's latest books aren't advertised on NewsMax.

[Derby FALs]

I'm sorry, but I just can't take any website seriously that advertises books on how to survive the coming collapse.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

[FPrice]

"After three chapters, Chittum’s writing sobered me, but I still wasn’t convinced until he offered concrete numbers. "In California in 1993, 665,229 firearms were sold. That’s 1,873 per day. Enough firearms were sold to equip an infantry battalion." For the Californians remaining, there’s a lot of frightened people readying themselves for conflict."

I guess that in order to buy a gun in California you had prove that you were frightened?

[schizrade]

Unpopular statements coming...... read at your own risk.
<flamesuit on>

"Scared White people, at 11."

Most of those Afghans in Fremont California are legal, happy to be American and fly American flags. Little Kabul is a great place to visit and live, Afghan or not. Also the author should learn that Afghans are not "Middle Easterners".

A lot of panic and FUD.

Sounds just like the anti-immigrant blather coming out of the American Press 100-150 years ago about all the German, Chinese and Irish flooding into our country. 99% of the people here owe their freedom to having immigrant ancestors, the great bulk of which showed up between 1800 and 1920.

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION is a problem that can be dealt with. Elect people to power that actually have the balls to beef up border and port security rather than electing people based on their party affiliation. Look at what the latter has gotten us in the past 50 years.

<flamesuit off>

[Third_Rail]

That author is quite the alarmist, and he's skilled at connecting things without proof. :)

[Art Eatman]

I am willing to stipulate that what's presented as fact is indeed correct. The problem is in the connections presented among these facts, and I find fault with many of those connections.

Incorrect connections as to causal relationships to me means some incorrect conclusions.

So, yeah, some of the worries seem realistic, but many do not.

There's a lot of that going around, these days.

Art

[ctdonath]

Paragraph two:
Have you noticed more and more people speaking different languages at the supermarket? Schools? Movies? At your local bank? Have you noticed radio stations and TV crackling with Spanish or other languages in our English speaking America? Have you seen more people disrespecting the singing of our national anthem? Have you noticed our laws being broken such as red lights being run or people fleeing accident scenes where they were the cause? Have you noticed more trash in your state and national parks, especially in California, Arizona, Texas and Georgia?
I stopped there.

:cuss: It really peeves me off to read this kind of drivel, and I'm not going to waste my time reading more.

[JPL]

You know, this same sort of drivel has been written/predicted pretty much continuously since the founding of this country.

There have always been immigrants in this country.

Immigration is what helped make this country such an economic powerhouse.

Who do you think mined the coal and other minerals, and refined it?

In the middle of the 19th century, it was the Irish who were destroying White Christian America.

In the late 1800s and early 1900s it was the Italians and Eastern Europeans who were destroying White Christian America.

In the 1920s it was the Orientals who were destroying White Christian America.

Of course, blacks and Jews have ALWAYS been destroying White Christian America.

For a nation that's a heartbeat away from utter collapse, America sure as hell has done well.

This BS sickens me.

[El Tejon]

When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! :banghead:

The Other, he's out there, waiting to get us! Noooooo. :uhoh:

*Edit, because I told Art I would be nicer.

[2nd Amendment]

It gets old seeing today's immigrants compared with those of the past. 100 years ago most immigrants entered the country thru whatever passed for standard means at the time. They came to make a better life for themselves thru the work of their own hands and minds. Some failed, some succeeded but none came expecting a Free Lunch. And almost none, if any, came expecting to recreate their homeland here by refusing to adapt their culture, language and/or children to America.

Today the immigrants are coming in deliberate defiance of our laws and with their hands held out. Not all, certainly, but by far too large a percentage. And perhaps even worse is the fact that they want US to adapt to them. Accept their languages and customs as our own.

Sorry, but times have changed and things are different and it matters little if reactionaries of the past cried wolf. What matters is whether those past fears are finally being realized, and they are to an alarming degree.

[JPL]

"And almost none, if any, came expecting to recreate their homeland here by refusing to adapt their culture, language and/or children to America."

I beg your pardon?

Ever hear of Chinatown?

Little Italy?

Little Greece?

Hunkytown?

Virtually ever ethnic group that immigrated to the United States at one time or another formed enclaves with others of their own ethnic backgrounds.

Some of these areas are a shadow of their former self, but others are still viable communities, such as San Francisco's Chinatown.

Many who immigrated to these enclaves lived their whole lives within their confines.

Schools in New York, Philadelphia, and other cities that served predominantly single ethnic groups often hired bilingual teachers to ease the transition of students into the new society.

For many of those students, their parents remaind monolingual all of their lives.

I also strongly question your claim that immigrants today only come with the idea of leaching off the system.

The same claims were made 100 years ago, when the "system" provided virtually nothing.

The same claims (immigrants are taking our jobs, using our services, etc.) are recycled trivialities.


Yes, times have changed.

Unfortunately, the nature of the veniality of some people hasn't.

They've retained the "all immigrants are bad and are contributing to the decay of Amercia."

"Those past fears are being realized..."

Now who's crying wolf?

Pathetic, absolutely pathetic.

[Logan5]

Mr. Chittum is fairly far around the bend himself, check out this speech he made:
http://www.sipl.addr.com/ed_flagburn.html

I'm amazed that the JPFO bookstore and Stormfront both reccomend his book, but he seems to be the sort of equal opportunity stone paranoid that has universal appeal.

[Joe Demko]

Ever hear of Chinatown?

Little Italy?

Little Greece?

Hunkytown?


Don't forget my favorite....










Funkytown ;)

[El Tejon]

Funkytown? That culture endangers our children. Their petrol-based clothing is an environmental threat. Their shoes create a danger to our children as they could fall off them and injure children. Their big swinging jewelry could harm others. In addition, those dark glasses are a road hazard to all our children.

Ban discotown, for the children! :D

JPL, don't forget Hell's Kitchen, Little Moscow, Ukranian Village, or The Swamp (neighborhoods on the eastside of Indianapolis housing Southern immigrants).

I'm always amazed that the militia/patriot boys bemoan ethnic "enclaves" of The Other, but turn a blind eye or even zealously embrace European immigrant/ethnic enclaves of the Irish, German, Italian, Norwegian, Polish, or Ukranians. Wonder why this is? :confused:

[2nd Amendment]

Problem with your examples is those people learned English, at least as well as they could, and for the most part encouraged their children to become as much a part of their new country as they could. Some groups were better about it than others but none actively tried to carve out their own nations once they were here. Sticking together with people you can clearly communicate with is a totally different issue from the political and social manuevering going on today.

[QuickDraw]

Most of the illegals i have worked beside either know english or are learning it.

Boy,I wish that were true around here!I don't know where you work,but around here in the building trade,if I wasn't able to speak just a little bit of spanish nothing would get done. :confused:
And they never have their own tools!! :mad:

QuickDraw

[Ky Larry]

We have a janitor at work who came across the Mexican border illegally. He spent 11 days hiking thru the snow in the high desert in Arizona with his wife. She was 8 months pregnant at the time. He now works three jobs and studies English. He is one of the finest people I have ever met. He came to America to build a better life for his family. I've never seen him ask for anything except a chance to earn his own way. I'd rather have him as a fellow America than the peckerwood militia members. YMMV.

[The Rabbi]

Well its certainly refreshing to hear some decent posts on this topic. No, immigrants are not here to "take American jobs" like anyone has title to a job. Yes, immigrants do tend to live near each other and speak a common language. At least in the first generation. I was in an Oriental grocery just tonight where I have shopped for years. An older customer came in and the woman behind the counter waited on her in their native language (might be Chinese. Might be Khmer, I dunno). Then her daughter, about age 16 came out with her Anglo friend, speaking English. She talked to her mom in English no different from her Anglo friend. Same old story. My bet is her kids will barely know any of the native tongue.

As far as "Frosty Wooldridge": I have looked at some of the article. He is a butthead. Some things are that simple.

[tcdrennen]

"Is it still okay to hate the French?" --Eric Cartman
"Yes, of course" --Stan Marsh

:evil: :neener: :D

[schizrade]

Problem with your examples is those people learned English, at least as well as they could, and for the most part encouraged their children to become as much a part of their new country as they could. Some groups were better about it than others but none actively tried to carve out their own nations once they were here. Sticking together with people you can clearly communicate with is a totally different issue from the political and social manuevering going on today.

Man you are misguided. Integration is different than assimilation. Many immigrants now integrate in American society, rather than assimilate to it. My Fathers family still speaks our native German and we shop at German stores when we can. We speak ONLY german in these stores. My Fathers family integrated into American society because we valued our ethnic and cultural heritage. My Mothers family assimilated into American society. They came illegally from the Azores into Oakland in the 1850's and had to assimilate in order to not get deported. They ended up being influential in 19th century San Francisco/Carson City business, only to lose it in the 1906 earthquake and silver bust. One family assimilated one integrated. Neither came to "mooch" off of your glorious WASP society.

Climb out of the hole you have dug for yourself and look around at the "leeches". They are doing the best they can and raising young Americans that will work hard just like thier parents.

I'm being harsh because I'm sick of the xenophobia on this board as of late. Illegal immigration NEEDS to be dealt with, yes. Immigration, however, has made this nation what it is.

[El Tejon]

2nd, you're kidding, right? Look at our own state. In Indiana the Germans carved out their own society, even teaching their children in German in publicly funded schools (why no THR outrage over this, I wonder) at least until 1917.

Don't you live down in Amish country? Do you monitor them to ensure they are speaking English, English? :D

So, who's setting up their own nation now? Do you really think such inane drivel has any chance of being taken seriously. Look at the last serious attempt at treason, Cledus and Jasper tried in 1861 to set up their own nation and it didn't go over well! :D

A few hotheads of Mexican origin? Well, a few Whites are doing the same up in the Pacific Northwest, do we call for the expulsion of all the Whites? :confused:

I too am amazed at the hysteria over The Other displayed of late. However, in the end, I believe we have far more in common than in dispute. Immigration is an old story, we have been here before and come through just fine--the awful immigrants of yesterday, the Irish, the Polish, the Italians, the Chinese, are the established and accepted 'Muricans of today, as it will be for today's immigrants. :)

[2nd Amendment]

Umm, I am German(partly, also Irish and American Indian) and we've been here for 120+ years(that I can trace back confidently). I live near Amish(Mennonite) country and my kid's school has the pure pleasure of playing basketball against em. :rolleyes: They speak English the vast majority of the time, and their communities are religious based not, specifically, ethnically so.

Frankly I am amazed at the inability of some to differentiate between immigration, past and present, vs the manipulation of the system that we are seeing today. THIS is a different phenomenon, driven by the nanny state for the most part, and falling back on past "examples", or trotting out whatever PC label makes one feel better is not dealing with it.

Hmm, EDIT fort an example: The store my wife manages has a Mexican restaurant next to it. Numerous times she's gotten apps from Mexican immigrants(some of which are more than a bit questionable on the face). Interviewing most of them has proven impossible because they don't know ANY English. In talking to their...liason, for lack of a better word... he has flatly stated "Don't hire 'em". He won't. They are here looking for the handout, with no desire for anything more. For some getting a job is, they think, a way to unemployment until they can get someone knocked up and have a kid that increase welfare pymts. This is from a recent immigrant who works 70 hr weeks, knows the language and speaks only English around his kids. All while trying to become part of the US AND preserve his heritage.

But the problem, is literally everybody seems to see only one type. Either the parasites or the good guys. The fact is we have both and right now, thx to government hand outs that did not exist in the past and thus did not contribute to past immigration problems, real or imagined. To deal with the problem it's necessary to SEE where the problems are, which is not immigration itself(nor have I ever indicated it was). It's what attracts some(an increasing percentage unfortunately) and how they color everyone's perception.

Generalizing, good or bad, is just ignoring reality.

BTW, don't tell me the above actions of some won't work. Sometimes it actually does, but regardless, it's what a segment of our current immigrants WANT to work. The problem remains the same. Adressing the problem is not in and of itself racist or phobic. Generalizing it may be...for both sides.

[Art Eatman]

No argument, there, El Tejon.

I've grumped in other threads and forums that too many facets of a problem get all rolled up into one resultant furball.

Seems to me the issue is less of ethnicity or nation of origin than it is two separate facets: First, those immigrants--legal or illegal--who get involved with crime. Second, those immigrants--legal or illegal--who freeload off the system.

Percentage-wise, I really don't think many legal immigrants are all that much of a problem in either case.

From everything I read, these days, it seems like the "jobs" thing is relatively minor, overall. I grant that if YOU happen to be the one who's impacted, it ain't minor at all. The numbers don't justify the amount of concern that I see.

There are some cultural issues that create problems in local political structures. Nepotism in governmental employment is a problem in some communities in Texas, for instance. Otherwise, a difference in culture or the fact that an area has more foreign languages than it does English is not very important.

Only if the real problems are looked at can we have rational discussion.

Anyhow, that's pretty much the way I see this whole deal...

FWIW, Art

[schizrade]

Umm, I am German(partly, also Irish and American Indian) and we've been here for 120+ years(that I can trace back confidently). I live near Amish(Mennonite) country and my kid's school has the pure pleasure of playing basketball against em. They speak English the vast majority of the time, and their communities are religious based not, specifically, ethnically so.

So ethnic communities are bad? Little Kabul in Fremont is Afhgan ethnically and Muslim religiously. Is this bad in your mind? They speak Farsi, eat Afghan food, fly their Afghan and tribal flags next to their American flags.

Frankly I am amazed at the inability of some to differentiate between immigration, past and present, vs the manipulation of the system that we are seeing today. THIS is a different phenomenon, driven by the nanny state for the most part, and falling back on past "examples", or trotting out whatever PC label makes one feel better is not dealing with it.

Whose fault is that? Who let the immigrants in? Who let the borders be softened? Who allowed people to come in and do the jobs others did not and now are pissed that they won't leave? Who allowed the Nanny State to exist? Who elected the leaders that started this path? YOUR ancestors. My ancestors. All of our parents and gradparents. Who suffers? The immigrants looking for a better life that are never told what America is really about. The immigrants who get told that they are not wanted and stay within their own communities, never forming a bond with their new nation. Never realizing what a great nation we live in.

Your weak grasp on history is also apparent in your statements. You obviously have NO clue what the climate in this country was like even 100 years ago. Reading books by real historians will shed some light on this to you. Reading works by psudo-historians and psudo-intellectuals published on the internet will further blind you from the truth. Go ahead. Keep consuming the Kool-Aid. You are convinced that it is true with little real evidence.

For the last time, get out of your hole and look around. Your myopic worldview is scary, not immigration. Immigration is a fact of life in the Imperial Rome of the modern world. We have it, most do not.

This crap belongs at Stormfront. I'm done here. I'm not going to associate myself with this crap. It's no wonder gun owners have such a bad rap. Bye.

[2nd Amendment]

Ya know, I wrote a long diatribe to you, Schiz. But I erased it because there's a much simpler reply to you:

Please show where I said anything that could in any way by any rational person without an agenda be interpreted to indicate I see any "problem" with ethnic communities.

Please show where I in any way indicated any acceptance of any of the sub-par research which you appear to be intimately familar with.

Please show where and how my observation of the fact of the damage and differences between our current nanny-state and past immigration indicates any faulty knowledge of history.

Please tell why you chose to ignore the bulk of the post.

Please try to explain and defend this baseless and ignorant personal attack,For the last time, get out of your hole and look around. Your myopic worldview is scary especially in light of the fact it has nothing to do with anything I have said. OTOH it does appear to reflect you quite well, but I may be pursuaded to withdraw my currently accurate observation if, maybe, you can even slightly explain any of your disjointed and unsupported attack-dog rambling. Until then, have wonderful day...or not.

[MarkDido]

I'm sorry, but I just can't take any website seriously that advertises books on how to survive the coming collapse.

I can't take anyone seriously whose first name is "Frosty" :)

[Boats]

The Deck Division on my destroyer was a rainbow coalition that Jesse wouldn't necessarily approve of because of how much we disliked communists and Iranians who took potshots at us. In a group of about 35-45 men between the ages of 18 and 35 years old we had:

Poles from Chicago and Milwaukee
Latinos from California
Samoans from the Central Pacific
A Filipino
A Truk Islander
Blacks from Houston, Mississippi, San Diego, Detroit, Memphis, and the Carolinas
Whites from Oregon, (yours truly), Florida, Missouri, Appalachian hill country and just about everywhere at some point.
Mixed race folks of all kinds, Tejanos, part Native Americans, what have you.
Curiously, we had no one from East or South Asia, and no one from the Middle East.

My senior chief was a Polish Jew with a second generation accent.
Our Chief who'd just been frocked was a black man from the scummiest part of East St. Louis.
My First was a half white/half Mexican guy from SoCal who is still one of the funniest men I have ever known in part because of his perspective on race relations. "I just set out to offend everybody equally."

Nevertheless, despite our differences, we had each others' backs, every day of my hitch, and especially at sea and in foreign locales. We were testy brothers when we bickered about our differences and perceived or real slights, but especially tight ones when we banded together when the chips were down, when the weather was getting to everybody during a midnight refueling, the watch was too long, the fresh water condensers broke down and no one could shower, when confronted in bar fights by hostile natives or by Marines, or when Iranian motorboats shot 12.7mm too close for comfort, because when push came to shove, we had more in common than not.

Being an American is more a state of mind than it is a question of where one is from or how far removed they are from their accent.

I don't fear for the nation's future because of immigration or immigrants because it has ever been thus. I take note that we forget that not everyone adapts inside of a generation because it takes about two or three for most people's kids and habits and whatnot to be pretty much like everyone elses.

There have always been immigrant gangs and the like, whipped to crisis status by the media, which is always looking for a way to move both their product and those of their advertisers. It has ever been thus too.

However, I do also sympathize with those folks who live on the border who see their private property rights trampled by people that the government is charged with the duty to keep out. Through the assumption of a monopoly on force and custody the FEDGOV has made a compact with those property owners to mount effective efforts at safeguarding them and theirs. That definitely needs addressing, politically, especially since the courts have decided that our governments retain sovereign immunity for slipshod or downright non-performance by law enforcement authorities.