What's wrong with Colt?


PDA






jsalcedo
February 5, 2005, 02:15 PM
Found this on the AR 15 forum apparently from a Colt LEO dealer

OK, Got good news and bad news.

The Good News is the first order of 6450s are at my supplier and will be shipping to me Monday.

The Bad News is Colt has completely effed us. First they have raised prices about $100 on every Colt LE model and they have charged the distributors that price difference and those distributors are charging the dealers (like me) that price difference. This means I will be losing money on every 6450 that arrives in the order coming to me.

Also Colt has retroactively enforced the letterhead requirement. This means I need to have a police letterhead for every individual rifle ordered BEFORE it will be shipped out. For those people who are NOT buying one for "duty use" WITH a letterhead authorization they WILL NOT be shipping a rifle. And IF they did they will not deliver at the quoted price when I placed the order.

Also Colt is no longer offering rifles at "quoted prices" but at "current prices" at time of delivery. What this means is that if I place an order for a police officer WITH a letterhead and Colt quotes $1,100 for the rifle, when it is ready to ship (and current delivery estimates are 9 months) I would be charged the "current" price at that future date. This means if Colt decided to raise the price to $1,600 in that 9 month period that is what I would have to pay.

I have been advised by my Colt distributors that Colt is seeking to go agency direct and cut out LE distributors and LE dealers completely and this should be a very effective way of doing it.

Once I receive delivery of the inbound 6450s I will no longer be getting anymore Colt rifles. I have cancelled ALL pending orders.

Here is where we stand:

1. For police officers who DID supply a letterhead and are willing to pay the current price increase, as well as any future increase Colt may decide to do, I will resubmit individual LE orders under the new terms.

2. For ANYONE who wishes to substitute a Bushmaster rifle I will place orders for those rifles.

3. For ANYONE who wishes to cancel your order that will be done more or less anyway. We simply are not gonna cash checks or run the cards. Money Orders WILL BE RETURNED. Checks will be destroyed, if anyone wishes to send a SASE we can return the uncashed check. A small handfull of checks were cashed and refund checks for the same amount will be issued in those cases.

I am extremely sorry that Colt has chosen this course of action. I hope everyone understands this is beyond my control and contrary to my wishes. I'm only glad the bulk of the order was covered out of my pocket so that everyone who paid with a credit card won't be looking at a non refundable loss of 4%. I only wish I could say the same for myself. This deal is gonna cost me a loss of a few thousand bucks (and I don't mean lost profits). Also I will have effectively alienated a large part of my local LE customer base who couldn't get letterheads and were depending upon me to produce rifles.

I'm gonna start going through the paperwork when the 6450s arrive, hopefully some time next week.

In the meantime if you want to substitute a Bushmaster model please email me so I can get the substitution order arranged.

After this fiasco is resolved as much as it can be I will be selling Bushmasters as my primary LE product. I don't think I want ANYTHING to do with Colt in the future. I have never seen a company try so hard to put LE dealers out of business.

If you enjoyed reading about "What's wrong with Colt?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
lbmii
February 5, 2005, 02:24 PM
Colt is now begging to go out of business.

What are they thinking?

FN has or will soon have all of the Military business now.

CentralTexas
February 5, 2005, 02:25 PM
Over the next year or two I think they will double in value if this is true.
CT

Wildalaska
February 5, 2005, 04:30 PM
The price increase is true, the rest to the best of my knowledge is not.]

WildmoretofollowAlaska

FP1201
February 5, 2005, 04:50 PM
Somewhere in Colt's heiarchy there's got to be a person whos either brilliant, or a complete ass-clown.
FN has/had the contract for military rifles
Bushmaster and now Rock River Arms picked up a huge number of agency rifles.
Colt cut production and discontinued many of its handguns.
They don't make ammo, components, or accessories (no money in ammo anyway).
Overseas markets?
You would think the spanking that S&W got over their LEO only fiasco would serve a hard lesson.
Stinks because Colt does build a nice EBR, but their competetors build a better rifle for a lower price. Remember how bad it was for GM and Chrysler in the 70's - 80's??? They rode the name, while building sub-standard cars and collectivly got their asses kicked by the Japanese car builders.
Too bad, many of my favorite firearms are marked with a rampant colt.

Standing Wolf
February 5, 2005, 06:04 PM
What are they thinking?

Colt hasn't done that in a long, long time.

jsalcedo
February 5, 2005, 07:01 PM
I went to buy a new production Peacemaker in .45 colt blue, color case hardened frame, pretty standard. The price was $1600 :what:

The clerk pointed me to an Uberti in the exact configuaration with 45 colt and 45 acp cylinders, with better fit and trigger for $339

I'm sure the Colt will hold more value, but I buy guns to shoot not as an investment.

I think Colt has a drunk monkey at the helm.

Wildalaska
February 5, 2005, 07:18 PM
Colt hasn't done that in a long, long time.

Yep thats for sure, they spend no money advertising, invest nothing in machine tools and not only sell every gun they make, but have backorders up the ying yang...must be a dummy at the helm. :)


I went to buy a new production Peacemaker in .45 colt blue, color case hardened frame, pretty standard. The price was $1600

Guess ya need a new dealer...I have a brand new 39-40 up for auction right now with a buy it now of $1249, and they are harder to get and get a bit higher premium that 45LCs..

Ive yet to see a Uberti with a better fit than a Colt......


WildbutheyifyacantbashcoltorsomeonewhatgoodisthedayAlaska

jsalcedo
February 5, 2005, 07:33 PM
I have a brand new 39-40

They doing custom chamberings now? :D

Wildalaska
February 5, 2005, 07:38 PM
Hey its close enough, I sell guns not type

WilddisklecksickAlaska

280PLUS
February 5, 2005, 07:59 PM
I can tell you around here (Hartford area) steel has gone up over 50% in the last 6-8 months, copper is up, fuel oil went crazy and gas prices are incredible too.

I can't even trust the numbers in my computer because things are changing so fast. Now whenever I do a quote I have to spend the extra time EVERY time to check all current prices and make sure I'm up to snuff on MY prices. I could take a hit if I don't.

It all gets passed on to the customer...

:(

dfariswheel
February 5, 2005, 08:04 PM
When dealing with Colt, always remember this:

1. Colt is partially owned by the (very) anti-gun State of Connecticut.
The ONLY reason Connecticut bought in was because of demands of the union , (which was largely responsible for Colt's bankruptcy to start with) to save their jobs

2. The Union has some ownership share.

3. Colt is managing to (barely) hang on with the financing they do have.
They don't HAVE the money to buy advertising and new machinery.
Yes, it'd be a very smart decision to advertise, but when the choice is an ad in a gun magazine, OR meeting the payroll, your choices are limited.

4. Colt has to take at least some direction and ORDERS from the various people who own pieces of the company.

If the (very) anti-gun State of Connecticut doesn't want evil military and police weapons sold to "civilians", Colt has little option but to obey the owners.

280PLUS
February 5, 2005, 08:14 PM
We're workimg on it, noone, I believe, hated to see Dodd get back in there more than I and I have even less love for Lieberman. I also worked against Edith Prague, my local anti-gun state rep but to no avail. We'll be trying again.

We still have a baby AWB, I can't buy an AK or a few others but I know they are around, all you have to do is break the law.

We do have Rep. Bob Simmons(R), he was against the AWB extension.


280

Lone_Gunman
February 5, 2005, 09:17 PM
Ive yet to see a Uberti with a better fit than a Colt......

Then look harder, Wild, because they are easy to find.

I have 2 Ubertis, a Colt SAA, and have handled many more of each..

The Ubertis are just plain better fit, have much better triggers, and as good a finish as the Colts.

My Colt has a 6 pound trigger. The Ubertis are less than 5.

It is true that Colt is usually backed up in terms of production, but somehow you are misconstruing this as a positive business attribute. They can't keep up with demand because they don't understand the market.

I love Colt firearms, but the company has been a mess for a long time. The impressive thing about the management of Colt is that they can run a company that badly and still remain in business.

Standing Wolf
February 5, 2005, 09:36 PM
Ive yet to see a Uberti with a better fit than a Colt...

I've looked at several current production Cold Single Action Army pistols in the past few months. Without exception, they exhibited poor fit, poor finish, and extremely poor triggers. I've looked at Ubertis that were equally mediocre and less mediocre, but essentially, the only difference is the price tag.

Colt seems to have every excuse in the book for failing to meet the needs of American shooters. It sounds a lot like the Democratic (sic) party, in fact.

tc300mag1
February 5, 2005, 09:38 PM
Beaks my Heart that there doing this kind of stuff becuse i want a few more colts yet like a python and maybe a anaconda . with they would bring back some classics like the trooper etc etc

Wildalaska
February 5, 2005, 09:38 PM
Then look harder, Wild, because they are easy to find.

OK listen everyone is entitled to their opinion, but give me a bit of credit here...over the last year I have personally sold or handled over 150 Colt SAAs from various generations. We have tuned many new ones for CAS. New production Colts are the finest SAAs ever produced, bar none. The fit and finsih of a new Colt, and the smoothness of their action FAR EXCEEDS that of any clone. How many SAAs you played with? One? Ive got 15 in the safe right now....and two in the back that we can "play with"

There was a tijme in the 80s when colt QC sucked....guess what...I am getting as much as $2,000 for unturned 80s colts despite QC flaws....whats a Uberti from the 80s worth?

It is true that Colt is usually backed up in terms of production, but somehow you are misconstruing this as a positive business attribute. They can't keep up with demand because they don't understand the market.

They understand the market quite well..build a better product...check out the Colt Gunsites....the new SAAs....these guns are US made finely crafted firearms...if they arent jumpin on the polymer bandwagon, hey so what...they sell EVERY gun they make and then some...Glock cant say that.....

WildsameoldthreadAlaska

Wildalaska
February 5, 2005, 09:42 PM
I've looked at several current production Cold Single Action Army pistols in the past few months. Without exception, they exhibited poor fit, poor finish, and extremely poor triggers

Well Wolfie Im calling you out on that one my friend, because I havent seen one yet and I have seen more than "several".

Of course, I havent cocked all of them (ya buy before ya cock, and I find it hard to beleive a gun shop would allow a prospective customer to cock one since collectors demand them to be unturned), but I have been lucky enough to have cocked at least 25 and I was darn happy with em all...

WildsaaguyAlaska

Lone_Gunman
February 5, 2005, 09:54 PM
Wild,

I think if I took a dog turd and put a rampant pony on it, you would tell me it doesn't stink.

ya buy before ya cock, and I find it hard to beleive a gun shop would allow a prospective customer to cock one since collectors demand them to be unturned

Really. How many your customers are buying new Colt SAA's for the purpose of keeping them un-turned collectibles? The only guns I have ever seen where shop owners didnt want someone to turn the cylinder was guns that were already collectable.

I am not trying to say Colt's are crap. If they were, I wouldn't have bought one. But I don't think the $1000 difference in price between them and a Uberti is worth much more than the logo on the side of the gun.

Standing Wolf
February 6, 2005, 12:12 AM
Well Wolfie Im calling you out on that one my friend...

Dawn? Seconds? Twenty-five paces? All that untidy old-time stuff?

Seriously: I'm not a Single Action Army sort of guy, so for all I could tell you with absolute certainty, there's supposed to be a rough edge where the grip frame meets the frame, and single action triggers are supposed to be creepy and break at five-plus pounds. Maybe they're supposed to have visible tool marks, but nobody ever told me—or knowing me, I was probably just too busy relieving myself of snide remarks to pay attention to such fundamentals of single action excellence.

Werewolf
February 6, 2005, 12:51 PM
No gun dealer with thousands of dollars tied up in a brand is ever gonna bad mouth that brand regardless of how bad it is in reality. That said:

Fact is - IMO - modern Colt's are way over priced based on what you get. The reasons for this are many. They're made in the US and labor costs because of the union are outrageous. There's still a mystique to the Colt name and as one person mentioned that's worth a premium. Colt is partially owned by a Union and a State - both entities that care little for manufacturing efficiency (they care about the money that goes in their pockets - states figure they can just take it - union's don't really understand business - they think all professional business people do is sit up in their offices and dream up ways to screw the union while they're drinking $10lb coffee and screwing their secretaries).

If ya wanna pay Colt's prices and wait forever to get one - more power to ya - but not everyone is profligate with his/her money or as patient as others.

Even if they don't go belly up they haven't made anything I'd spend my money on in well over 30 years and I don't see that changing anytime in the future.

Personally - I hope Colt goes bankrupt if for no other reason than to put a few thousand union scum out of work and to screw over CT!

280PLUS
February 6, 2005, 01:03 PM
Now I'm going to have to go shopping around and check out a few Colts and Ubertis. Any others I should look at while I'm at it?

:)

yea, screw Connecticut, them guys suck,,,

:D

Cool Hand Luke 22:36
February 6, 2005, 01:12 PM
Must be some tax advantge to bankruptcy that they're looking to partake of.

Oh wait, they're subsidized by the State of Ct, no chance of going out of business.

spartacus2002
February 6, 2005, 01:18 PM
I never could stand the M16s I saw in the service -- beat to hell, faded parkerizing, etc.

Then I bought a Bushmaster AR15. For the first time, I was tremendously impressed with the AR series.

What does a Colt do/have that a Bushmaster doesn't? I'm not being snotty, I'm actually curious.

azrael
February 6, 2005, 01:20 PM
ahhhh guys havent we had this same thread several times?? :confused:

Wild defends Colt...

Others slam Colt...

I am eating a sandwhich and watching horror movies barely clothed..

same thread different day.. :barf:

My .02 peso's

Gonna break it down for ya economically... :cool:

If you think Colt is hosing us, then buy a Bushy...They seem to like our money better than Colt does anyway... :eek:

My gun dude will not even order a Colt 6450 or whatever it is, for anyone that isnt an LEO...Ar15's are not my thing so it doesnt matter to me that much...To several customers that it DID matter to, they bought Bushy's...Simple economics at work...

Colt isnt thinking this through...I hope that someone will get a "bug" in there ear about the amount of money that they are losing to Bushy and others...If not, then there company will die the death it deserves..

See?? isnt it pretty simple?? :D

FP1201
February 6, 2005, 02:00 PM
Well this thread has shifted from AR's to SAA's.
Point: Colt originated the SAA, so all others are copys.
High or low price doesn't always equate quality anymore than it does junk, it's all subjective. Even a worn out POS with the "Colt" name will command big bucks. (Maby it's a status or phalic thing)
Many highly sought items carry a hefty price, and "collectors" want pristime specimens, afterall its condition, condition, condition.
Maby Colt has to make overpriced antique firearms to stay in buisness, especially if they're controlled by an anti-gun government (ironic isn't it) in a state where Union labor has forced the prices and operating costs so high, that they have no other choice.
I suppose a 100+ y/o designed revolver isn't as deadly or menacing as a modern revolver or pistol.
But, HEY this is America! If you can make a product and get big bucks for it, go right ahead. God bless you.
Could it be, most of the complaints center around the desire to own Colts, but cannot justify the necessary funds?
Nobody likes having that which they own critisized!
I own a couple Randall knives. Are they any good? I don't know because I've never used them. Could just as good or a better knife be had for less money? I'm sure they can be had, but I'll always get more money that was paid for the Randall. :scrutiny:

OpenRoad
February 6, 2005, 07:00 PM
What dfariswheel said and:

The impressive thing about the management of Colt is that they can run a company that badly and still remain in business.

They're not really in business, they're partially state owned (had to be bailed out?) now so company decisions are not the same as for a business. Not that they ever were with Colt. The more things change the more they stay the same.

NMshooter
February 6, 2005, 07:18 PM
Colt's sole purpose at this point is to get as many lucrative government contracts as possible.

Every M-4 and M-4A1 I have ever seen had a pony on the side.

So long as the M-4 remains popular with various federal agencies, many SWAT teams, and a standard issue item for the US military they will remain in business.

Whoever thought of the trademark infringement strategy and M-4 patents was very smart.

USP45usp
February 6, 2005, 07:20 PM
I will never buy a colt anything. If I want a freakin dancing pony on the slide or receiver of my gun, I can get one lasered on.

No, colt is trying to get the military deals as well as the LEO's, and they can have it if they want it. Sell only "hi-cap" mags to LEO's and Military only even though the ban is ended, screw them.

As for fit and finish, there are other SAA's out there, if they don't "match" to colt then I just don't need one.

You know what, I'm happy that colt is losing the military and LEO business, the way they screwed us as "civilian" then they need to lose their business.

Old colts were sold to us mere peones, todays colts are trying to only sell to government and LEO's. I won't miss them.

Wayne

Wakal
February 6, 2005, 09:06 PM
I like Colt's business practices.

My $350 Anacondas are now sold as $900 Custom Shop guns...oh, wait, I can't SELL them for that? Oops...

Spent some time in Colt's booth at the SHOT Show this year, and last year, and...well, you get the idea. I spent most of the time biting my lip to keep from shouting "ARE YOU PEOPLE F&^$G HIGH?" in the middle of their spaces.

Thumbed (hah hah) every SAA they had on display. These are the "hand selected" guns FOR DISPLAY, brought to show off how great they were. Ummm...OK. Gritty, creapy, some out of time, some with enough endshake to require immediate rework right out of the box... The best actions were no better than the $500 knock offs. Finish was worse than the $900 knock-offs. You are paying for the logo and the box, and that is all.

The only reason Colt is backordered is...they can't put out products in a timely fashion, due no doubt to the antiquated machinery and unionized workers. I'm on good terms with the folks at a very high-end 1911 manufacturer, and know that they have been spending a half-mil on new machinery every six to eight months, in an attempt to keep up with demand. With all the new machines going, their production is an easy four times was it was a year ago, and they are still six weeks behind. Colt, meanwhile, is just as slow as they ever were...and their products are not getting any better.

Hmmm...which is union, and which isn't? Which is a socialized, and which is a private company? Amazing.




AlexIownasafefullofColtsandrunashoptooWakal

Wildalaska
February 6, 2005, 09:52 PM
Thumbed (hah hah) every SAA they had on display.These are the "hand selected" guns FOR DISPLAY, brought to show off how great they were. Ummm...OK. Gritty, creapy, some out of time, some with enough endshake to require immediate rework right out of the box.

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaha........

WildguesswejudgerevolversdifferentlyAlaska

PS...but then again I dont have an axe to grind in this great debate...we can sell ANYHTING we want, Ubertis or Bushies or Kimbers or Rock Rivers or whatever......however the bulk of our customers want Colts....if they wanted Kimbers, o well would just go out and buy a slew of them.....

PSS:

How many your customers are buying new Colt SAA's for the purpose of keeping them un-turned collectibles? The only guns I have ever seen where shop owners didnt want someone to turn the cylinder was guns that were already collectable.

About 50%...the other 50% puts down their money and shoots em.

spacemanspiff
February 6, 2005, 10:17 PM
i think that deep down, in places where people dont wish to admit, you will find that everyone is a closet colt snob.

:neener:

USP45usp
February 6, 2005, 10:33 PM
Wild,

I own a colt upper for my AR, in 7.62, and they refuse to make standard capicity mags for them. And you know what, the fit from the colt upper sucks compared to the one that I bought from another place. It's all hype and flash, you buy a name just to be able to tell your friends that you own a colt this or the other, I on the other hand am quite embarressed about owning a colt sporter upper for my AR.

My comments stand. As for not buying any guns, well, most of the guns that I have are from other countries but their laws are not my problem. The companies there may be socialist, communist, or part of the european nation but that isn't my problem what their country is like. My problem is with the companies that are in the US.

Wayne

lbmii
February 6, 2005, 10:35 PM
I like Colt firearms. However I simply do not understand what they are doing. They seem to be a firearm company that is run by some people who do not like firearms and are ashamed of their company’s operation..

FP1201
February 6, 2005, 10:42 PM
I like Colts, and would gladly own more NEW COLTS IF they became civilian friendly again.
As "Wakal" pointed out with the Anacondas: I bought one in 1993 and it cost $372.50 sent UPS/COD to my house. Now "dealer" is over $750. IF you can find one.
WildAlaska sounds like he's got a good buisness and clientel with the cabbage to buy fifteenhundred dollar revolvers that may never have a cartridge chambered.
I'm going to have to start buying up all the Colt firearms I can, because the value is expected to increase significantly.

Justin
February 7, 2005, 03:03 AM
Ok. This thread is back from the dead. Don't post anything that's likely to give me a headache. :scrutiny:

TheEgg
February 7, 2005, 12:41 PM
I like Colt's, own several. That being said, I also don't understand what they are doing.

I have money to spend with Colt and can't do it. They either won't sell me the perfectly legal items I want (such as former "LE" rifles), and/or they are so far behind on producing product that I can't find them (Various 1911 models that seem to be unobtainable).

In either case, me, a Colt fan, winds up purchasing other manufacturers goods. The end result is that Colt does not get money that I WANT to spend with them. How much worse is this for those who don't really have an affinity for Colt? Does not this situation finally result in Colt's ruin?

mjb
February 7, 2005, 02:44 PM
Colt is my favorite handgun manufacturer. In their day, they made the best pistols on the market. It is really sad that the company today isn't the same as it used to be. Except for the 1990's, Colt really didn't pay much attention to the latest consumer demand on firearms since the 1970's. :( :( :( :( :(

Old Fuff
February 7, 2005, 03:04 PM
More bad news ...

I just got through going through the 2005 catalog/price sheet and ...

No revolvers except custom shop Single Action Armies ... :(

This is not the Colt Company of my youth that I remember so fondly ...

This is a company that has lost its way ... :mad:

MountainPeak
February 7, 2005, 04:35 PM
I left Colt, no, they left me many years ago. When revolver clones, at half the price or less, out shoot them, what more needs to be said? When, manufacturers can provide similar characteristics and function for less, in rifles, what more needs to be said? When they snub the civilian market, everytime they can, what more needs to be said? Nothing in my opinion!!! I quit supporting COLT, because they quit supporting me.

Valkman
February 7, 2005, 05:01 PM
I love my 2 Colt AR's, and as long I can get them at a GREAT price like I did from WA I will get more. Funny that Colts aren't overpriced when you buy from the right person! All this despite drunken rants of idiots and cheats... :barf:

mcmoyer
February 7, 2005, 07:16 PM
i think that deep down, in places where people dont wish to admit, you will find that everyone is a closet colt snob.

All right, all RIGHT...get off my back, will ya?? Sheesh!! I'll admit it!!

Hi, my name's Mike & I'm a Colt snob. :eek:

There, ya happy now??

:D :D

Werewolf
February 7, 2005, 07:37 PM
i think that deep down, in places where people dont wish to admit, you will find that everyone is a closet colt snob. ROFLMAO - A classic case of wishful thinking and projection me'thinks.

ALS
February 7, 2005, 07:47 PM
When I talked to Norm Chandler down at Iron Brigade Armory back in late August they had just delivered something like 250 (I think that was the number) Armalite's to the Pennsylvania Department of Corrections. Does that tell you that Colt is losing business to the other AR manufactures. I have never seen any business with the type of arrogance that Colt has that has stayed in business very long. Even if Conn. does own part of it there is no way they are going to lose money over the long term to keep the Union happy.
My local Colt parts supplier has had upper receivers on back order for 6 months. He is complaining because he can't get much of a supply out of them of any Colt parts.
I'm going to have to stop up this week and see if he got any in.
I trying to put together a tack driver flat top and want all Colt parts in it since the lowers are Colt's.

If you enjoyed reading about "What's wrong with Colt?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!