Does this happen a lot?


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who me
March 7, 2003, 12:28 PM
Jackson 03/06/03
JPD Officer Shoots Self in Leg




A Jackson police officer has been hospitalized after shooting himself during a training exercise.

An ambulance was called to the Jackson police firing range around 7:00 Thursday night in response to the shooting.

Jackson police spokesman Robert Graham says the 23-year veteran of the force accidentally shot himself during an in-service training exercise on the firing range.

Police say the gunshot went straight through the precinct four officer's left leg. The officer had to be carried off the firing range on a stretcher.

"They were conducting a live fire drill at the time of the accidental discharge," Graham told reporters. "He was attempting to holster his weapon when he accidentally discharged it. We're happy to say the officer is okay. He has been transported to the Baptist hospital."

Police are not releasing the name of the injured officer at this time. He is listed in stable condition.

http://www.wlbt.com/Global/story.asp?S=1167862

If I'm not mistaken I think most LEO's here use .40 caliber Glocks. So does this sorta thing happen a lot?

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spacemanspiff
March 7, 2003, 12:31 PM
it happens more often than it should. whats really sad is when it happens more than once to the same person.

FINGERS OFF THE TRIGGERS WHEN REHOLSTERING!

Chipperman
March 7, 2003, 12:36 PM
They need a "safer gun". Call Fineswine, quick!!

Obviously these officers have faulty guns that will just "Go off" when you pull the trigger!!
:rolleyes:

GlocksRock
March 7, 2003, 12:51 PM
I hope they don't go blaming Glock beacuse the officer doesn't understand basic firearm safety. FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER.

Blackhawk
March 7, 2003, 01:09 PM
Statistically, no, not a lot, but it sure seems that way. It's always newsworthy when somebody the public pays to carry a gun has an accident with one.

The main problem is lack of training, standardization, and currency. LEOs are way too likely to be careless and ignorant about the weapons they carry, and accidents result. A gun is not in the category of handcuffs in a holster, but too often they're treated as just a part of the uniform like handcuffs.

In non-combat situations, the Army required M1911A1s to be carried chamber empty, hammer down for situations somewhat similar to what LEOs experience.

There's no substitute for trigger discipline, especially with Glocks. If you carry a Glock with one in the pipe and do not practice safe trigger discipline 100% of the time, there WILL be NDs. That's the crux of the problem.

TarpleyG
March 7, 2003, 01:50 PM
Sounds like he needs one of those nifty trigger locks...

GT

Azrael256
March 7, 2003, 02:54 PM
Whoa, everybody take a step back and look at this. "He was attempting to holster his weapon when he accidentally discharged it. Note that the discharge was performed by the officer, not the gun. I haven't seen that grammar used much recently.

jsalcedo
March 7, 2003, 03:01 PM
The common theme of the reholstering of a glock and it "went off" seems to stem from some part of the holster pushing on the trigger as it is being reholstered.

This has happened in at least 4 occasions in the past 12 months
if my recollection is accurate.

The most notable being the female officer that was showing
a grade school class her sidearm and when she was reholstering
a part of the holster was in the triggerguard, the weapon fired,
a bullet ricochet off the floor and struck a student in the face.

The solution? Proper training? better holsters? Cop proof guns?

I don't hear the Brady bunch clamoring for restrictions on police
firearms...

rick458
March 7, 2003, 07:52 PM
extrenal safeties are beautiful things:D

MountainPeak
March 7, 2003, 08:03 PM
I don't mean this to be flame material, but since when does cop equal firearms expert? I use to buy police dept. guns because they had so little use/wear. Again, not meant as a flame, the two guys that I shoot with most often are retired LEOs. One a Chicago PD and the other a Chief Deputy from TN. Both KNOW guns and how to use them!!

Standing Wolf
March 7, 2003, 08:34 PM
Sooner or later, negligent discharges "happen" to everyone who doesn't follow the fundamental safety procedures.

Woodchuck
March 7, 2003, 08:45 PM
Just a month or so ago there was a one year veteran cop in New York City that fataly shot himself in the head with a new(personal) .38 special he had just bought himself. It happened in the police staion lockeroom. It happened just after he was showing several of his fellow employees his new toy.

JohnKSa
March 7, 2003, 10:16 PM
Years ago, I read that an entry poll at a police academy in a large city (can't remember which) showed that over 70% of the entrants had ZERO experience with guns.

That runs contrary to the idea that many have that cops are "gunnies".

To most cops, a gun is just a tool of the trade. Some of the worst cases of gun abuse and gun mishandling comes to use courtesy of the Law Enforcement world. That's because they are forced to carry an item that few of them care anything about.

I remember a state trooper friend of mine telling about a fellow officer whose gun "wouldn't work". He took it to the armorer and the armorer found that the cylinder and all the lockwork was frozen from rust. He couldn't even open the cylinder. The officer had never performed any preventive maintenance or cleaning on the gun, and the condensation from the repeated temperature cycling of going from hot to cold to hot during the wintertime had ruined his firearm.

Imagine carrying a firearm daily and NEVER checking the action or inspecting it in any way for MONTHS.

Stories like that begin to put things into perspective...

El Tejon
March 7, 2003, 10:29 PM
John, saw something similiar at IPD. Went down to the basement of the city-county building in Indianapolis one lunch time and stopped by to chat with the armourer. He showed me a motorcycle cop's M66. The weapon was frozen shut from ketchup and mustard from a vendor's hot dog stand.:rolleyes:

I think of this, and all the other LE NDs I have seen, when I hear some moronic politician tell me that only LEOs have the training to competently carry firearms. Wanna compare hours, champ?

HadEmAll
March 7, 2003, 10:51 PM
Here in San Antonio about 4 months ago, a female deputy sherrif got off duty, went home (an apartment), removed the clip from the Glock 22, neglected to remove the round in the chamber and tried to put the loaded, cocked pistol in the factory box (peg in the middle) while the muzzle was pointing towards her. She either made the peg discharge the pistol or pulled the trigger to get it to the rear so it would go over the peg. She unfortunately took the round through the torso, doing severe damage to herself, and even more unfortunately expired not too many days afterwards. Young mother of an infant child. Very sad. Very disturbing. It shows that she had no concept of how her pistol really worked, and that her training was lacking or she was lacking as a student. The Glock is a fine pistol for somebody with savvy, but with every law enforcement agency mandated to get their force to represent a cross-section of society, you don't always end up with the most capable people as officers, just people.

Archie
March 8, 2003, 03:47 AM
We had one about eight or nine years ago. New guy shot himself in the non-critical portion of the right buttock.

(I suppose it was a critical enough portion.)

He's okay. Happily the wounds to his pride lasted longer than the physical one.

We have about 150 officers who are armed.

To be redundant:
Lawfolk are not all shooters.
Having a badge does not convey any mental or physical ability.
Keep the muzzle in the right direction and keep your finger off'n the trigger with any firearm!

WonderNine
March 8, 2003, 03:49 AM
It happens all too often. And yes many people believe that all cops are highly trained gun experts. :rolleyes:

Jim March
March 8, 2003, 04:16 AM
Well the news isn't all grim.

Generally, these wounds are neither life-threatening nor crippling. About the worst that can happen is to blow the knee up but that appears to be very rare. The femoral arteries run down the "inside of the thighbone" while the bullets in these cases run down the outside. Even if by very bad luck the round curves across, it'll take the femoral fairly low so anybody competent in first aid can shut down most of the blood flow at the lower groin with the "knife edge hand technique".

And these incidents hardly ever seem to happen when the idjit is alone, because it's almost invariable going on when they HAVE to shoot for their qualifications.

(There's exceptions, such as the Front Sight incident where a kydex holster appears to have cranked off a round on a 1911 with an extra-wide trigger. The shooter was experienced, it appears not to have been a "finger position problem" but almost certainly a "safety switch brainfart". The wound was extremely shallow and the guy was shooting again the next day.)

Hypnogator
March 8, 2003, 10:58 PM
I train law enforcement agencies in judgmental shooting for a living. Although my simulator has the capability, this is one reason I will not train judgmental shooting with live fire. Too much chance of an accident even in the limited excitement of the simulator scenarios.

blades67
March 8, 2003, 11:13 PM
I don't hear the Brady bunch clamoring for restrictions on police


Then you aren't listening.

Coffee357
March 8, 2003, 11:58 PM
Let's not forget that most L.E. agencies are just starting to get to the range more than once a year. If the officer is not interested in guns - (after all, it is the least used piece of equipment he/she carries) the burdens of living check to check and shift work can easily prevent additional familiarization. I've been in the buisiness for 12+ years and have been to only two L.E. sponsered courses with any kind of live fire since the academy (outside qualifications). This was an hour long session on tactics following a qual and the firearm instructors course. I have an interest and I practice some (not as much as I should), those without don't have the official endorsement and encouragement from their agencies that they should have. More than half of my qualifications have been after working all night. Tell me that someone who doesn't have a desire to shoot is going to stay up several hours after working all night and then spend money he doesn't think he can afford to spend to go to a hard to find or get to range. The departments share the responsibility.

Coffee

keyhole
March 9, 2003, 12:18 AM
I'm probably a little better off then other officers, since my wife and I own property where a range is located, ( and I am on the board and secretary/treas of the club). I have always been interested in shooting, and do so whenever I get the chance. I have spoke with officers who have had AD's, none where they were injured, just their pride. Muzzle control, and keeping yer damn finger off the trigger, is something that many forget. I do have to agree, most LEO's are not gun nuts, and not familuar with what they carry. I remember hearing about another agency in Kansas, who had an officer involved shooting. The armorer checked the officers gun after the shooting, and found it was unloaded. The had recently changed obver to Glocks, and they checked several other officers, and found the same thing. The officers were uncertain of the guns, and afraid to carry a round in the pipe. Immediate classes were held on the transition, to remedy the situation.

beemerb
March 9, 2003, 12:37 AM
I have talked to a couple of PO about firearm training.I came from southern MN.The chief of police there had fired his S&W 5 times in 11 yrs.
I am sorry but the weapon for a PO is a tool of the trade for them.I can't see lack of interest as being a excuse for lack of abilty to use this tool.This is part of what he is getting paid for.
Bob

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