[Frandy]

I realize I need to get my hands on both to make the best decision (I have shot a few rounds through the Ruger), but I'd like your opinions on the Ruger SP-101 (.38 DAO) versus a "comparable" Smith, such as the 642.

Equally reliable/dependable?
Fit and finish?
Given their weights and design, difference in handling?
Opinions on DAO or should I "keep the hammer, baby!"
Anything else that would help me?

Thanks!

Frandy

[mec]

some people don't like the ruger grips. i do. They dampen recoil very well even with the full loads. They are durable and very easy to shoot double action out to 25 yards.

The J snub 357s I've shot were fairly painful. Never shot one to distruction but would expect nothing to equal the sp101 in terms of durability.

The Smiths are prettier.

[Risasi]

You might also want to think about a Ruger Security Six, if you can find them. Very handy, and DA/SA. Plus they can usually be found for about $200.

If you are set on DAO Smith is okay, and also the SP. Just be prepared to dryfire the crap out of 'em in front of the TV...

[Frandy]

I'm not set on DAO. Actually, I would miss the choice, but I am thinking of concealability as well. :confused:

[R.H. Lee]

The 642 weighs 15 ozs and fits into a pocket easily. For me, it's a keeper. I have no experience with the SP101.

[PowderBurn]

I compared the two side-by-side and walked away with a Smith 60. The trigger was better by far. The Ruger is perhaps more durable, but I don't know anybody that shoots the pee out of their J-frame with hot .357s. So durability is probably more of an academic argument than a practical one.

[Tacoma]

You might be talking apples and oranges a little here. The SP 101 is closest in general to the 60's series magnum J frames. The SP 101 conceiled hammer and 640 ( both stainless and weighing around 23 oz in 2".) are the closest comparison. (Even then , the Sp has a hammer that gets exposed during fireing and is not shrouded like the 640 so they are not as close as you would think. ) IF you want a 642 /442, you are talking a 15 oz alloy but similar sized frame revolver which is nicer for carring but less pleasent to shoot.

I own 2 SP's and "a few" S&W J's including a 640 and 60 (J magnum frame). I think the S&W's have better initial fit, finish and action smoothness. The S&W's also get a better selection of grips and holsters. Having said that, the SP's are still very desireable ,well built and smooth out with use.

Lastly, if in doubt on whether you like a DAO, consider a mod 649 or 638. I myself have DAO snubbies but am partial to the humpback style and or bobbed hammers so I can keep the SA feature for when I want it.
hth

[JNewell]

Tacoma is right, it is very hard to compare the SP101 and the 642 -- they are in different classes.

The 60 or 640 is slightly smaller and slightly lighter than the SP101. It will conceal slightly better. If you have big hands it will be slightly harder to get a good grip on. It will have slightly greater perceived recoil. It is probably somewhat less durable over the long haul, but I doubt that you will shoot either enough to find out (I certainly don't expect to). In my experience, if you have to return the gun to the factory, the S&W will cost less (because you don't have to try to talk them into paying for shipping back to the factory) and spend less time away. The SP101 is somewhat easier for most people to do mid-level maintenance on, because the lockwork simply drops out the bottom of the frame.

I keep saying "slightly" -- I have lots of time with both and don't think the differences are terribly great at the end of the day. However, YMMV!

[P. Plainsman]

Different guns, both excellent.

The 642 is a true pocket gun, very highly evolved and refined. Since my job and circumstances limit me to pocket or jacket carry of a rather small piece, the 642 is what I will carry when I get my CCW. I shoot my mom's from time to time, and it's a reliable, discreet gun.

The SP101 is, for the average man, a belt gun, albeit one of the least obtrusive of guns so carried. It's the biggest of the small snubbies, and the only one I'd shoot .357 Mag in. Feels nice in the hand. Easier to shoot accurately than the 642. Basically indestructible.

To my mind the 642 is "city mouse" CCW and the SP101 is "country mouse" CCW.

[Doug Add]

Well, you know what I chose. Before I got the SP101 .357 I spent months debating between it and a S&W 60. For me the smaller, lighter S&W models were too light for enjoyable and accurate shooting.

My experience with the 686 led me toward the 60, but I also remembered how well I shot my uncle's SP101 a couple of summers prior. What it came down to for me was availability and price. I found a great deal on a used Ruger that saved me over $150 off the price of the model 60. I have not regretted my choice, but if I found a similar deal on the S&W I would have gone that way.

As for the DAO, that is not for me. I have no trouble at all concealing my SP101 in the Kirkpatrick 4100 (http://www.kirkpatrickleather.com/product/hm_4100.htm), and as you know I just ordered another Texas Heritage (http://store.yahoo.com/rlcompanyusa/teheiwb.html), this one for the Ruger. As a matter of fact, I have been in conversation today and yesterday with an acquaintence who has an SP101 without the hammer, and he is having difficulty finding a suitable holster.

[Marshall]

I looked at both a bought the S&W Model 60. I hate DAO revolvers for one and, the Model 60 is lighter with a better trigger. 22oz compared to 25oz, or something like that. It's is a breeze to carry, accurate for a snubby too!


http://members.cox.net/ousoonerone1/Model%2060%20polished%201.jpg


http://members.cox.net/ousoonerone1/Model%2060%20polished%20small%202.jpg


http://members.cox.net/ousoonerone1/J%20Frame%20Gould%20and%20Goodrich.jpg


http://members.cox.net/ousoonerone1/J-Frame%20Holster%20bt%20Hunter.jpg

[Frandy]

Thanks for all this good info. I will definitely check into the S&W 60. Oh, and Doug, your SP101 is got me to thinking about all this. Great revolver you have there.

Da** gun-buying enabler, that's what you are, my friend! ;)

[Tacoma]

Frandy, Just be aware that mod 60's were smaller and lighter ( 20 oz) before 96' when they went to the J magnum frame and 357 rating. A new 60 weighs in @20.9oz while a new 649 weighs 1.2 oz more. P.s. Here is something to sleep on :-)
http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=252031

http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=252031

http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=252031

Marshal, nice polish job on that 60. I did my 60 and 642 that way. Just a lousy pic.

[Marshall]

Thanks, It turned out nice.

I picked up a tip here from GUNKWAZY.....Mothers Mag Wheel Polish, the paste.

[Tacoma]

Yep, use the same stuff myself. Even had it left over from what my wife calls my "motorcycle phase" :-)

[Marshall]

Maybe Smiths site is wrong on the weight of the M60...........?

Weight: 22.5 ounces

Tacoma, I use it on my Bass Boat. :D Never occurred to me to use on my stainless guns though, until I read it hear.

[Norm357]

Frandy, FWIW I carry two guns daily. A Ruger SP 101 on my belt, and a S&W 442 in a pocket holster. This setup has served me well. I really love my SP 101 and wouldnt part with it for the world.

[Frandy]

Thanks for the additional info... I have more thinking to do here...fer sher.

Frandy

[Jim PHL]

Tacoma, a pre-96 "J-small" vs a "J-magnum" is only 20 oz. vs 20.9 oz? (Not doubting, just confirming.) I have handled both, just not at the same time and felt the old .38 would have been more significantly lighter. Just an impression

[Stainz]

If weight isn't a problem, the 2" 10 would be ideal. A bit bigger, and heavier, it is the best snubby I have seen in .38. If you can find a recent example, it would be rated for +P's, too. It is perfect for the 'FBI' load of 158gr LHPSWC +P's - or that new Speer 135gr GDJHP +P... and, it takes six. My 2" 10-11 was made 1/03, so they are around. Of course, the little 642 is a pocketable piece, for sure... and a handful with the OEM grips and those 'FBI' loads.

Stainz

[tension]

This will show you the difference between a Ruger Police Service Six and a Smith 640 and 642.[IMG]http://www.thehighroad.org./attachment.php?attachmentid=20943

[PaleRyder]

Well, my Smith snubbie was a 649 .357. It stuck the heck out of my hand, even shooting .38 special ball ammo.
I traded it for an sp101, and it's so much more comfortable and milder in my hand the difference is amazing. Even my girlfriend who only likes shooting semi autos liked it.

[Frandy]

Hey Tension,

I'll take that Service 6 of yours! Suweeeetness.

[mjb]

I had a Ruger SP101 and I think it is a good weapon if carried in a holster. I now carry a S&W model 49. It is much easier to carry without a holster than the Ruger. For me, the Ruger was too bulky for a concealed carry gun.

[Unisaw]

The SP101 is an excellent CCW piece as long as you don't want to carry it in your pocket. I have carried one in a VM2 with great success. I also really like the gun and the trigger has gotten quite smooth after many thousands of rounds of live ammo and dry firing. The sights are also quite good for a snubby.

[Cosmoline]

A better comparison would be between an SP-101 and a heavier Smith, such as a Model 19 with a short barrel. Even then, the Smith is easier to pocket than the Ruger. I feel that the SP-101 is better as a light belt gun with perhaps a 3" or 3 1/2" barrel.

[Tacoma]

Frandy, the site is probobly closer to "as delivered" weight. I forgot that I pulled the larger / heavier issue grips off and put on the boot grips you see in the pic before weighing ( on a digital postal scale). This probobly shaved a 1/2 oz or so. As for the "pre magnum J weights, they are also based on weighing my "colection" of J's. They actually range from something like 19-20.5 depending on model, year, grips etc. The 49 is the heaviest of the old ones. A early model 36 beign the lightest. ( Intereresting to note that I have two 36's of earlier vintage that differ by 1/2oz with the same grip! One is nickle though) Just points to for comparison , not direct / precise weight quotes.
hth

[P95Carry]

I like the Smiths a lot but - always prefer some weight in my piece - plus I carry OWB with a revo, even a snub. Thus the SP-101 suits me very well ... even tho not quite as ''refined'' in the trigger division, as compared with Smiths. My old M85 was almost as good, and that of course is more ''Smith-like"

The SP with CT grips makes for a great carry piece for me - certainly it takes care of my summer requirements, being easily concealed beneath a simple vest. Right now with more clothing still, options for larger items are easily accomodated!!


http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/thr/cb_gun2/sp-101-s.jpg

[BJPARKER]

I do carry a SP 101 in 3in, and it is comfortable and accurate to shoot, but had to get a trigger job done on it first. While I don't have anything comparable in .357 in a Smith, I have noticed that the 3 Smiths I do own , 629, 657 and 37 all had much better triggers right out of the box, and are dead accurate.

[Kamicosmos]

I have a spurless hammer SP101. I carry it OWB in a Don Hume holster with thumb-break! Tight, close in fit, hides well under a loose tshirt even. The Thumb-break goes over the very top of the grip, just under the hammer. I do have a nice tuckable IWB holster for it, but it's currently missing somewhere in my house, so I haven't carried it all day in that yet.

I bought the spurless model specifically because I knew it was going to be my primary CCW piece. Therefore, I didn't want a hammer poking me in the side. (Which, the right holster would prevent). But, I also feel that in a 'gunfight', I'm going to draw and shoot. Probably not draw, Cock the Hammer, then shoot.

I shoot all my revolvers single action, including my Double action ones. The SP is quiet a challenge to get and stay proficient with DAO. And I do put magnums through it, some loads are rather painful to shoot too. I've got a pretty good 158 grain handload that is stout, but not painful. I also found that the S&B 158 mag loads are not too bad either.

But, the SP is a pussy cat with specials! Great against plates and for draw and shoot practice.

(I have no experience with the S&W snubbies, but I wouldn't want to shoot mag loads out of a lighter snubbie, that's for sure!)

[c_yeager]

The SP101 is about as big as it gets in the 5-shot snubbie category so, it really isnt a pocket gun. However looking at it the other way it is also about as small as you can get for a TRUE .357 magnum. I wouldnt say that it is pleasant to shoot full-house loads with but, it isnt horribly painful either. I can shoot well over 100 rounds of magnums in addition to any number of .38s without ill-effect at a single session. I could not do that with an airweight gun.

I guess it just depends on what your looking for. If you want a pocket gun the SP will dissapoint you. If you want a small and easily carried (on a belt or jacket pocket) .357 then the SP is hard to beat.

With my example the trigger has smoothed up significantly over several thousand rounds of use but, it will never be quite as nice as my smith and wesson triggers. They are close enough that it doesnt matter much though.

[Frandy]

Again, thanks for the replies. Much to consider. I really am leaning toward a Smith now. I need to go to my dealer and get my hands on a few.

[cvnhank]

I have a S&W 649 38+p. I shot probably less than 300 rounds through it when it broke. About half the rounds were +p stuff. The hammer drop safety broke(I think that was the part). The hammer wouldn't contact the firing pin. Anyway, S&W fixed it and all is well. I use it a my house gun. They also paid for shipping. Hank

[Frandy]

CVNHANK..I guess that's bad...and good. I have heard many say they stand behind there product and make things right. I do like that.

[Tacoma]

Wow Hank, that sucks. Good thing it broke in practice !
Never had a problem with any of mine. BTW, the 649 is next on my list. I'd like to carry my 49 more it's jsut to minty to beat up!

[Frandy]

Well, I took my time and agonized over this purchase and wound up getting a Smith 642. Good choice. I'm adding the Crimson LG-305 grips to it and a pocket holster. More good choices. Thanks everyone.

One happy dude. :p

[ddc]

Warning: Possible thread drift but hopefully not too far :)

Previous in this thread is a picture of a Ruger Police Service Six along with two S&W J frames, 640 and 642.

How would that Ruger Police Service Six compare in size and concealability to a S&W 65 with the same length barrel?

[DHart]

I see a hierarchy here in these guns. The SP, the 640, and the 642 are not really comparable guns... they each serve a different niche.

I prefer to carry my SP 3"er in a belt holster. (3" barrel is my preference as this gun is NOT a pocket gun by any means. It carries as well as a 2.5" and offers a longer ejector rod, longer sighting radius, and just a smidgeon more velocity.) A bobbed hammer is helpful in that they are less catchy when pulling from under clothing, and this modification can easily be done with any SP. Single action shooting is not something you would do in a close encounter defense scenario... it's pull and start shooting as fast as you possibly can... period! So double action proficiency is essential with any of these guns... and that is something that doesn't come easily!

But there are many times when I don't want to bother with a holster and here is where the Smith RULES. Two choices:

640 for .357 power, but on the heavy side, if you can deal with that

642 for superb carry-ability and carry comfort: .38 spl +P power is the best choice in these lightweights.

Either (especially the 642) can be carried in a coat pocket. You can even hold the gun ready to fire it while it's in a coat pocket with no one around you being aware that you are armed and capable of instant action. The gun can be fired from within the coat pocket, if necessary, in a self-defense emergency.

I often drop my 642 in my front jeans pocket (where it basically disappears) or in the pocket of my motorcycle jacket while riding. Light, small, unobtrusive, no reason NOT to have this gun with you at ALL times.

Sealed, internal hammer is superb for keeping lint and gunk out of the gun, giving a super sleek profile while drawing, and making sure you get plenty of DA practice in when shooting the gun!

http://www.legendportraits.com/Images/Guns/642_L1567.jpg

http://www.legendportraits.com/Images/Guns/642_R1568.jpg

Note that I don't use the 642 for pleasure shooting... it's not made for that. But I do shoot it from time to time for familiarity. The all-steel 640 is a touch larger and a fair bit heavier which makes it not as great to carry, but more comfortable to shoot. I don't use my 640 or my SP-101 for pleasure shooting either. These guns are designed for carry convenience and not for pleasure shooting.

There is one exception here: a snubby which is a pleasure to shoot... and that is the Colt Detective Special, which is all-steel, the same size and weight of a S&W J-frame Model 60, but carries 6-rounds of .38 spl +P, is very comfortable to shoot, and is more accurate on top of that! Definitely one of the best; a legendary snubby.

http://www.legendportraits.com/Images/Guns/DetSpl_LF1565.jpg

So depending on what size and carry method you desire... you can pick your bullet launcher accordingly. They're all fine guns which will last as long as you are likely to need them. Don't make your choice based on which you think might be more "rugged".... they're all plenty rugged enough and most likely will outlast you. And if any of them should develop a problem, those are quickly and easily fixed. Pick the gun based on your desired size and need. And feel free to buy more than one gun if you can swing it! I think one really needs at least, well, 5 revolvers to cover one's based reasonably well! ;)

Beyond the 642, 640, and SP-101... we graduate up into the Smith K-frames and the Ruger GP-100 frames... now we're talking CCW with shooting comfort and pleasure shooting capability. But that's another topic entirely.