[99xj]

I dont get it. Here in Metro Phoenix last week or so a guy "commited suicide" at an indoor range say the reports. Now there is another report of persson shooting themself at another local range. Resaon unknown. Man, the antis are gonna have a field day! What kind of statement is it supposed to make to commit suicide at the range? Besides the obvious, the guy was weak, messed up, needed help etc. :scrutiny:

[Valkman]

What's worse is when they decide to take a few others with them. That happened at a range in Stockton CA years ago when I lived in Sacramento.

[TexasRifleman]

Possibly the guns were range rentals? The local indoor range I shoot at won't rent handguns to anyone that is alone, just because of this.

[99xj]

Good point.

[CGofMP]

Ranges with Rentals seem to have a lot of probs with this.

There are local ranges here, indoor ranges with rentals. I think that it has happened twice here.

Problem is that it hurts the rest of us.

A couple of years ago I wanted a stainless revolver for belt carry when I take the family camping. I wanted somehitng my wife would feel comfortable with and could withstand the elements without me making a big production of it. I was VERY close to buying a slightly lesser name .357 but having never fired one I decided I wanted to rent their copy of it before I bought the new one they had been showing me at the counter.

No dice. I was *GASP* ALONE!!!!!!!! Never mind I have been joking and talking to the guys about a sale for 30 minutes and handled several weapons. Never mind I own enough of my own artillery to put myself out of my misery via more classy stuff than a Ruger ;) and never mind that my father used to shoot there weekly.

Nope I was alone and therefore unable to rent the revolver.

Because of a suicide at a range 15 miles away, these guys put in a rule that cost them a sale, cost me frustration, and would not stop a determined person bent on suicide anyhow.

It was good in a way however because a week later I found a used S&W 686 (which I vastly prefer) [I wont buy new S&W stuff] and for a cheaper cost. :neener:

It's too bad that a deranged minority can cost all the rest of us convinience and freedoms.

[Feanaro]

Because the person in question is inconsiderate? That might sound a little strange but it's much easier on the rest of us if they, say, jump off a bridge at night. No mess to clean up, no one scarred with traumatic memories.

Actually, it's probably because they can rent handguns. Penny-penchers even in death...

[MikeyBee]

I ran into this problem today and was just about to post about it.

Some of you know that I'm looking to buy my first firearm. I was pricing at L.A. Guns, yesterday, and told them that I haven't found a range that had a S&W 686+ for rental. They recommended L.A. Gun Club Pistol Range, saying that they "had everything".

So, today I drove forty minutes (*grumbletrafficmumble*) and, lo and behold, in the rental case at the range were multiple GP100's, 686's, Pythons and more, all of various barrel lengths! *drool*

I greeted the counterperson and informed them that this was "my first visit to the range and I would love to try those three revolvers, so give me 100 rounds of .38 and a box of .357".

"Are you by yourself?"

I looked over my shoulder for comedic effect. He didn't laugh. He just pointed at a sign that said they wouldn't rent firearms to folks that were by themselves and he apologized, telling me it was for "insurance reasons" and mentioned something about committing suicide.

Frankly, I was about to post a "How stupid is this rule" thing, but I guess it's not that stupid. Sure, it's unfortunate that some idiots had to ruin it for everyone else, but the range owner is just covering his butt. I can respect that.

[joab]

Actually, it's probably because they can rent handguns. Penny-penchers even in death... Rope is cheap, a razor blade is even less. I believe cinder blocks are still less than a dollar and lakes are plentiful and free in most parts of the country.
They could spring for a couple of gallons of gas and a garden hose for less than the price of range and gun rental.
Of course all of those don't make for the dramatic, manly, attention getting, blaze of glory that they seek.
But then again they could add a dollar for a Bic lighter to the price of the gas and really make a statement.

If the news reports started claiming that new scientific evidence proves that shooting yourself is not the quick painless death that these people seek maybe they would start choosing another method.

[Chupacabra]

Yeah, the ranges in my area has the same policy. You can only shoot by yourself if you bring your own gun. They figure if you're going to kill yourself with your own weapon, you won't bother going to the range to do it.

At one of the ranges, some dude rented a gun, took it into the bathroom and used it to blow his brains out a couple years ago. :eek:

[fedlaw]

There is a very interesting thread at The Firing Line. The story unfolds slowly and dramatically regarding the suicide and there are many views expressed along the way.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160972&highlight=handgun+suicide

[Greg L]

Probably because they aren't gun owners to begin with.

[Ky Larry]

99xj, as a sane, rational person, you can never understand the actions of an insane, irrational person. Obviously, the person wanted to make a statement, but since we can't think on this persons level, we won't ever get it. Psychobabble aside, the person was just nuts. Just my $0.02 worth.

[sturmruger]

I can't say I blame these businesses for only renting to people that have a friend along. How else are they supposed to weed out the loonies?? It isn't like they can just know by looking at you. I guess that is the easiest way to cover their ASS.

[MikeJ]

Several years ago I was at a local range in Phoenix during my lunch hour and a guy in front of me at the range counter was renting a Beretta 9mm. I had a bad feeling about him as he seemed rather unfocused on what he was doing. I asked the kid at the range desk to not put me in a lane right next to this guy and so I was given a lane about 3 lanes away. Long story short, this guy fired off a few rounds and then put the Beretta to his head and killed himself. Never having seen anyone lying on the ground in a pool of blood exiting from their head was very unnerving to say the least. I did go back to work that day but needless to say didn't get a lot done. The other thing that really bothered me were the gawkers and their gallows humor. I obviously didn't know the person but he was someone's son, brother, husband, father etc. I had posted this story on TFL some time ago. We had another case of a double suicide at a range in Mesa, Az. many years with a young couple.

[GEM]

I doubt their actions have anything to do with the RKBA. They are looking for a guaranteed method that is efficient.

It is unfortunate that ranges have to take precautions but you can't really fault them.

I've seen suicidial folk and I have little use for the internet tough guys who say XYZ about them. It is tragic that they get to such a situation. I hope you never have to deal with it.

[Brett Bellmore]

"Rope is cheap, a razor blade is even less. I believe cinder blocks are still less than a dollar and lakes are plentiful and free in most parts of the country."

Take it from me, you've got to be very dedicated to kill yourself using a blade. It hurts, and you tend to change your mind halfway through. There's just something about physical pain that snaps you out of that funk, and engages your survival instincts.

[DigMe]

I dont get it. Here in Metro Phoenix last week or so a guy "commited suicide" at an indoor range say the reports. Now there is another report of persson shooting themself at another local range.

The second one could very well have been prompted by the first. One thing I studied in college was the psychology of influence and persuasion. We read one book simply called "Influence" that was really fascinating. That book illustrated some solid studies that indicated that when a suicide occurs and is highly publicized anywhere people who are experiencing their own uncertainty or problems will tend to kill themselves in a similar way. I know that's not surprising to you but the other results of those studies go deeper and deeper and actually get pretty bizarre. I wish I could recall them all at the moment. It gets into airplane and car crashes and numbers of people in the vehicles and whatnot..it's weird.

brad cook

[Kruzr]

The indoor range I work at has the same rule for our rentals. Not only do we require that you be in a party of at least two, but as a result of our last suicide (which was on my watch), we now require that both parties remain either with the gun or away from it. If one shooter comes out of the range to use the facilities, then the other one comes out also. If one wants to buy more targets, the other one comes out with them. IMO, I'd rather lose business as a result of this policy than have to deal with another person's selfishness.
We will rent to a single person if they bring a gun with them or if they are a member who we know.

[Firethorn]

So can you still rent other guns if you bring your own? Or is it to rent a gun period you have to be accompanied?

"See, If I wanted to kill myself I have this fully functional 22wrf, 9mm, .40,and .357. Now, given that if I bloody well wanted to blow myself away I could do it in the privacy of my own home, are you going to let me try out that gun that I'm considering purchasing."

Oh, and just noticed that somebody posted about a couple killing themselves. Well, I guess the "must be accompanied" rule isn't 100% effective.

[MikeB]

Uhm will these ranges that won't rent you a gun when you're alone, sell you one when you're alone?

Seems to me someone could just say ok then I'll buy this gun and then shoot themselves. Maybe I'm just not crazy enough to understand this logic.

[Jay Kominek]

Uhm will these ranges that won't rent you a gun when you're alone, sell you one when you're alone?

Seems to me someone could just say ok then I'll buy this gun and then shoot themselves. Maybe I'm just not crazy enough to understand this logic. The difference is that the fellow with the rental can't take the gun somewhere else, and so he is going to kill himself there at the range. Which is a horrible mess, literally, legally, emotionally, etc.
Even with a credit card letting a person get a gun they can't pay for (hey, if you're killing yourself...) they're still probably going to take it somewhere else before they kill themselves.

[mcneill]

Why would a guy shoot himself at the range?

Could be any of the above reasons.

Could be he doesn't want his family to find him?

Real estate rules here are that if a suicide is committed in the home, that fact has to be revealed to any potential buyers of the home which might discourage said buyers. Maybe the guy is being considerate of his family?


Jim

[PATH]

I have refused to sell firearms to people who have looked out of it. If my "gut" tells me you are a baddie or a person looking to hurt themself then I wil not sell you a firearm. It is my call and I have made it several times over the years. Some people are so despondent it can be frightening. I really feel bad for anyone who has reached the point where death is the only answer in their mind. Suicide is a permanent answer to what is generally a temporary or fixable problem.

[nomadboi]

Range near me, you have to either be with others, or have a gun of your own already.

That way, if you want to try out some other models by yourself, you can, you just need to bring your own gun to show that if you really wanted to blow your brains out, you have other means to do it with anyway.

[petrel800]

I maybe the only one, but I perfer a range that won't rent weapons. I know it pays to be able to shoot something before you buy, but a couple ranges I have been to will just rent to anybody. What I usually see is unsafe behavior that cuts short on my enjoyment of the facilities.

IMO, if a range is going to rent weapons, they should either require previous gun ownership (ie you brought other guns with you), equivalent of a safety class, or finally, a Carry Permit. Those would be my requirements. The only other situation I would rent to, would be if the range was empty and I had a member of the staff availiable to supervise the renter.

[T.Stahl]

The president of my club once gave me this explanation:
"They want to know there's someone present to help them in case it goes wrong."

[Kruzr]

Uhm will these ranges that won't rent you a gun when you're alone, sell you one when you're alone?
I'll be happy to sell him one since we don't inventory any guns other than the rentals and we would order it for him. He still can't try one of ours unless he comes in with someone. 10 days after we submit the paperwork (after it arrives), he can take it home. He can shoot it at the range during the waiting period since it is his gun. I would hope that after waiting 3 or 4 days, he would wait another 10 and do his business elsewhere. If it ever happens, I'm sure a new rule would go into effect that wouldn't allow shooting during the "cooling off " period.

[thorn726]

ok so looks like this guy didnt rent the gun .
my only guess would be maybe he thought killing himself at the range would
-be a lttle safer for bystanders??
- or, that people at the range would be less traumatized by it? i dont know doesnt make a whole lot of sense.

i agree , a bridge in the middle of the night would be best, but the range is better than a neighborhood whee kids might have to see, but then there could be kids at the range ??

really weird place to off yourself

[rdbrowning]

I have heard that for every "sucessful" suicide there are many others that back out at the last minute. Going to a range and renting a gun provides a convient "cover" for all of the actions necessary to kill yourself, right up to the point of putting the gun to our head and puling the trigger. There is a reason to have the gun, have it out, and putting live ammo into it. No one at the range is going to question these actions and interrupt you. However if you exercise the option of backing out, you just aim down range and unload, no questions asked, no face lost. If you try doing this some where else someone may notice and intervine. Very embarrasing to get caught with a loaded gun in a situation where you wouldn't normally have a loaded gun. Embarrasement is the last thing someone who is despondent from all of the failures in life needs.

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

Never mind I own enough of my own artillery to put myself out of my misery via more classy stuff than a Ruger

Hey now...Ruger's are way overbuilt for this kind of one-shot stop.

[campergeek]

I think the mindset of anyone who commits suicide at a range is probably the same as anyone who commits suicide anywhere else by any other means - in any case they may be sane, rational people who are too inwardly-focused. Except in certain exceptions which probably exist (such as a person distraught over a tragic incident), the act of suicide is an overtly selfish act. Typically, a person who commits suicide is focused on themselves - how others see them; how they don't get the respect they deserve; how nobody understands them, etc. By killing themselves they will become noticed by others; people will finally appreciate them and be sad at their loss. There is no consideration for the figurative mess that will be left for families to clean up at the loss (or, to be quite blunt, the literal mess that will be left for someone). In fact, I don't think any of that matters. The negative feelings and financial or legal issues that suicide leaves behind are inconsequential, or even beneficial, because they call more attention to the one committing the act.

I'm no psychologist or therapist, but the cases of suicide I've seen fall into this mold, including my B-I-L who asphyxiated himself with carbon monoxide. My sister wasn't being the wife that HE wanted; he wasn't getting his way so he did away with himself and left everything behind for everyone else to take care of. I don't think the mental state would have been any different had he chosen to do it in lane 3 at a shooting range instead.

[BluesBear]

Just because you can't understand someone elses feelings doesn't give you the right to degrade them.



While I'll agree than many people wack themselves for the attention. For most of them it's the only way they will ever achieve their 15 minutes of fame.

But for many, many other people, a self imposed dirt nap is simply a way to finish a life than has become too unbearable to endure any longer.

Yes some people may decide to go out in a blast of gorey but the rest just want out. They don't want to be a burden. That's why they take pills, or suck on a tailpipe or take a swan dive off the back of the ferry.

It's the self centered bastards that unsuccesfully attempt suicide several times that are the attention whores. In those cases it is all about them. They don't want help, they just want pity.

But for the others all they want is peace.

For some people being alive ain't living.

Not everyone can be Superman.

[coltcarbine]

Always cheaper to rent it than buy it. Looks like suicidal people are becoming thrifty. Not good for us.

[alex-v.]

The guy wanted to buy a handgun from my favorite gun shop and range (no rentals at this place) but he needed a Michigan purchase permit. So, off to the police station and applies for his purchase permit. Days later he buys the handgun of his dreams since he has purchase permit. Instead of going out on the range to do the deed he drives up to the city park, gets out of his car and does it in the parking lot.

His choice of location had something to do with making someone in his life feel bad about his decision to end it all. In this case the police said he was trying to make a point by going to the park.

[brian roberts]

whatever the reasons, good, bad, indifferent, maybe its the ultimate rebellion, maybe "mind control" (that way "a crazed shooter" always seems to show up at the most convenient/inconvenient time when we "need" more gun control)but whatever it is, there's an easier way:5 spoons of salt(mebbe 6 or 7 to be sure)take your nap, no permits, licenses, fees, astonishment,(whatta ya doin' wdat boxa salt, bunky???) mess to clean up(do it in the tub, if you must, please) no questions(does this fit a handgun)no "salt control". the perfect solution for the determined. why don't more use the quiet method??? :rolleyes:

[ScorpioVI]

Had an incident here at my local gun-shop a couple of years back. Not a range, no rentals, just a regular shop. SOB comes in to the store with a 12-gauge shell in his pocket (I assume he bought it at a Walmart or something beforehand), walks over to the unsecured rack of used shotguns in the middle of the floor, chambers the shell and offs himself.

Took them days to clean up the mess.

[feedthehogs]

I don't think I've seen more narrow minded, uncaring, self absorbed and just plain stupid people than some of the posters here.

Killing yourself is a major epidemic around the world. The quotes of "nut jobs", "selfishness", diseased brain matter is just a sign of imaturity.

I dare anyone of you self righteous individuals to spend some time at a mental heath facility if you have the guts to do it.

My aunt hung herself and my mom was locked in a facility for 2 years when I was 13 because their father molested them when they were young. Their other sisters all died young from alcohol and drug abuse from the same problem.
While none used a gun, plenty still do. There are all kinds of reasons one kills themselves. The very few do it to gain attention.

People have some real problems that they just can't handle on their own.

The continued stigma of being called a "nut job" by insensitive, imature, self righteous children such as the ones here are the reason alot of people won't seek help.

It must be nice to be so perfect.

[BluesBear]

feedthehogs

[NHBB]

same thing happened at an indoor range here... and at the worst timing. a local news crew was doing a positive piece on the place, and some kid comes in and offs himself with a rental... the clerks I spoke to said you never could have known, he just seemed pumped to try out a handgun. that news piece didnt come out as nicely after that apparently.... a shame when a few thoughtless mongrels make it harder for the rest of us.

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Always cheaper to rent it than buy it. Looks like suicidal people are becoming thrifty. Case in point:


The final thoughts of a person intent on suicide are obviously God’s Own Mystery.

Case in point: when working the ammo counter at my old indoor range/store, I had a guy come in, rent eye and ear protection, get some target and also rent the Colt Anaconda .44. He then came over to where I was working the ammo counter and asked for “the most powerful hunting ammo” we had. I set him up with a box of Hornady 300grn XTP which we used to keep on hand for the pig hunters in the area. He complained about the price and decided to get a box of Fed red box 240grn instead. Then he promptly went into the men’s room and shot himself in the head.

Now the really strange part is that when you sign in to shoot, we used to keep a tab running, so that if you needed more ammo or targets for the range, we’d just add them to the tab and you’d pay at the end.
So what the heck was the guy complaining about the price for? IT’S NOT LIKE HE WAS GOING TO PAY FOR IT!

Just plain weird.

[pezo]

Maybe the guy just didnt grasp how to sight the weapon in properly?

[Brett Bellmore]

Feedthehogs, I've got a great deal of sympathy for suicides, seeing as, after my divorce, I got drunk in the bath, and took a carving knife to my wrist. Fortunately I didn't get drunk enough, it hurt like hell, and the pain woke me up from my funk long enough to think things through, and decide that I didn't really want to do that to my family, even if my own life was nothing but pain, and I could see no hope for the future.

After that, if I started to get suicidal again, I'd just go punch a brick wall or bite my tongue. Worked like a charm. These days I rely on a food suplement called "SAME", though; Leaves fewer scars, and lasts a lot longer. It's rather amazing, though; I can actually tell when the suplement is wearing off, because this internal monologue starts up, recounting all the ways my life sucks.

Oh, and why didn't I just use a gun? I figured you guys didn't need the headline. :evil:

[M2 Carbine]

"feedthehogs

I don't think I've seen more narrow minded, uncaring, self absorbed and just plain stupid people than some of the posters here.

Killing yourself is a major epidemic around the world. The quotes of "nut jobs", "selfishness", diseased brain matter is just a sign of imaturity.

I dare anyone of you self righteous individuals to spend some time at a mental heath facility if you have the guts to do it.

My aunt hung herself and my mom was locked in a facility for 2 years when I was 13 because their father molested them when they were young. Their other sisters all died young from alcohol and drug abuse from the same problem.
While none used a gun, plenty still do. There are all kinds of reasons one kills themselves. The very few do it to gain attention.

People have some real problems that they just can't handle on their own.

The continued stigma of being called a "nut job" by insensitive, imature, self righteous children such as the ones here are the reason alot of people won't seek help.

It must be nice to be so perfect."
__________________
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Every time one of these suicide related threads runs it's full of ignorant posts by "narrow minded, uncaring, self absorbed and just plain stupid people".

feedthehogs, you are pretty close to what I want to say.

At times I almost, but not quite, wish some of you critics would find yourself close to this problem. Then you might understand how ignorant your self righteous comments are.


BTW, my father shot himself in his home, but I guess that's OK because he didn't interrupt anyone's day of target shooting or hold up rush hour traffic or mess up the sidewalk from jumping off a building. :(

Of course his using a gun does make us gun owners look bad, so I guess I have to apologize to you gun owners for that. :mad:

[Brett Bellmore]

The thing you have to understand when you look at suicides is that, while, sure, there are circumstances under which a sane person might commit suicide, most people who commit suicide AREN'T in such circumstances. They're taking a knife to their wrists, or blowing their brains out, because they're NOT thinking straight.

Take me; A couple dollars a day of a widely available food suplement makes the difference between me being merely somewhat moody, and having to constantly fight off the desire to end it all. That's biochemistry, people.

There ARE, of course, other factors involved. I wasn't the least bit suicidal while I was still married, for instance. But as I look back on my life, I can see that depression had been creeping up on me over a period of a couple of decades, and all falling in love did was lift me out of it for a couple of years, before letting me drop again. Who knows, even if my wife hadn't deserted me, it might have gotten bad enough to give me trouble in another decade or two.

I think at one time we had more social support mechanisms, more involvement with family, to keep people like me going despite bad biochemistry. That, and of course a lot more stigma being attached to killing yourself, so that a fair number of people who were really desperately unhappy, for reasons largely unrelated to their lives being terrible, stuck it out. But they were walking through lives of living hell, as I can testify.

Today, we've taken the props out from under people, and the folks who are ok get by, and the people who aren't ok end it all. But all along they weren't ok.

[KAR120C]

I ran afoul of this rule when I wanted to "try before buy". I don't really mind that they have the rule, just warn me about it before I go out in the rain and fight rush hour traffic for 40 minutest to get there. :banghead:
Before I drove over I had talked to them on the phone at some length, making sure they had the specific gun I wanted to try. They were too stupid/disorganized/thoughtless to tell me on the phone... "by the way you either have to have a carry permit, or come with a friend or we can't rent to you". Even more frustrating was that I'd rented a gun, on my own, at the same place just 2 months earlier. Apparently application of this rule was at the range officers discression. I had also taken my CCW training at this place (but hadn't gotten the permit yet). Still, no dice.
I will never buy anything from this place again (Bills Guns, Robbinsdale MN). Just plain rude and incompetent behavior.

[spacemanspiff]

i dont think it makes a whit of difference where a person chooses to commit suicide.

my dad had two sons from his first marriage. i didnt/dont know them, but about 14 years or so ago, one of my half brothers was living in the village of tatitlek, not long after spending some time in jail for i dont recall what. i did get a chance to visit with him while he was in jail though, and he seemed very happy, was a great guy. he was 5 or 6 years older than me.

anyways, he blew his head off with a shotgun. i heard later that he walked to his kid brothers (from his mothers 2nd or 3rd marriage) room, looked at him for a moment, walked into the next room and pulled the trigger.

i wish i could have gotten the chance to know the guy better. but i dont keep ties with my fathers side of the family.

my views on suicide are radically different than everyone elses. i dont see why someone should be expected to remain in this life if they are miserable. its selfish for people to think that others OWE it to them to stay alive.

then again, my views on death and the soul are also quite different as well.

[R.H. Lee]

It's extremely inconsiderate and selfish to leave a mess for somebody else to clean up. Go out into the wilderness so the buzzards and critters will dispose of your carcass.

[Brett Bellmore]

Look, Spaceman, as a matter of political philosophy I tend to agree with you, but political philosphy is meant for mentally competent people. And as someone who's been there, done that, and got a scar across their wrist, I'm telling you that most people who commit suicide are NOT really mentally competent. They're not killing themselves because their objective circumstances aren't worth enduring, they're killing themselves because their heads are messed up.

And it's damned stupid to kill yourself because you're miserable, when the only reason you're miserable is that your brain isn't producing enough of some chemical, and a couple pills a day would allow you to find joy in living.

The problem, of course, is that if your head is messed up that way, you won't go LOOKING for treatment, because you've got biochemical blinders on, preventing you from seeing any way but down. Heck, *I* only started taking SAME for my arthritis, not to treat depression, and a month later suddenly noticed that I hadn't thought about killing myself in weeks. If not for that accident I'd probably STILL be thinking of carving knives as bath toys.

[spacemanspiff]

well i dont wish to derail this thread, but if someone else wishes to create a seperate thread about the topic of suicide and those with chemical imbalances, i'll speak my mind there.

[Brett Bellmore]

But unless we made it specific to killing yourself with a gun, it wouldn't be gun related, and would be off topic. :neener:

[GEM]

The stigma associated with getting help from mental help professionals is one reason that police and other folks in lethal professions then get into trouble with substance abuse, family difficulties and suicide.

If you hear lectures from high end trainers for civilians and modern police training, competent ones stress the problems and the need to seek professional help. That folks don't do this is in part due to stupid attitudes.

[P95Carry]

if someone else wishes to create a seperate thread about the topic of suicide and those with chemical imbalances, i'll speak my mind there.Please Spiffy no!!! That sorta subject is a possible guarantee for high temperatures ... folks have so many differing views.

Go see The Firing Line (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160972) where a suicide is discussed in some depth. The way some posts go, it ain't pretty!!

OK so - I'm a pessimist! :p

[spacemanspiff]

sheesh, first ya tell me i cant post about religion. then i cant talk about abortion. then i cant talk about idiots. now i cant even talk about medical conditions!

i think since i'm one of the brown skins, you are infringing on my rights to let my native spirit speak. the crafty raven is being stifled!
:neener:

[BluesBear]

I think the reason the Firing Line story turned so bitter was largely due to the fact that the originator of the thread, shall we say, er, um, EMBELLISHED the story just a teensy bit?

Suicide, and death in general, is just one of those topics in life where most people seem to have very strong opinions with very little experience. Which I guess is a good thing. Having experience with suicide is seldom a plesant experience.

I do know that here recently I view it in a much different light.

[Feanaro]

I don't think I've seen more narrow minded, uncaring, self absorbed and just plain stupid people than some of the posters here.

Some people are simply mean spirited against suicides, which I cannot understand. A person's life is their own, they can choose to stop it anytime. Suicide would never be my choice, but some people are not wired to handle certain things. But regardless, killing yourself in front of other people is, well, rude. Like eating with the wrong salad fork at a fancy dinner, but a little more serious. It forces trauma and pain on other people. Though the person might not be thinking clearly, they might be too filled with despair to know or care about such things, that don't make it right.

[Skunkabilly]

I haven't figured it out myself either. Why don't people just use drugs and have a good time instead of making a mess for everyone else??

[cgv69]

This must be a somewhat common problem and not just at ranges with rentals. True story...

Somewhere around 10 years ago, I was taking my wife to the local indoor range (Mark's in Florence for any of you locals who may remember this?) for what was going to be her first time shooting a handgun. When we pulled in, the parking lot was full of police cars but I didn't think much of it as this is where the local cops come for practice\qualifying. When we walked in, we were informed the range was closed. I asked if it was qualification day and was told no. Apparently some guy was in there shooting and decided life just wasn't worth it.

Now this range does not have rentals, (at least not at the time). The other curious thing was they way it was told to me, apparently this guy didn't just walk in and "do the deed" but setup targets and was target shooting for some amount of time first.

Who knows why these people do the things they do but apparently committing suicide at a target range is not that unusual?

[mike1966ga]

I am truly sorry for the ones who have lost someone to suicide, now with that being said, I do not feel pity, sorry for the one who commits it. feedthehogs said go to a mental ward to get to know and understand people who want to commit suicide, I say go to a cancer hospital and see the one who want to live, or visit a family who just lost a child to an accident,
Life is hard, no one said it would be easy but you deal with it or you move on.
I feel nothing for the ones who kill themselves other than disgust :banghead:
you want to suicide, call me and I will give you a bullet, your a waste of skin anyway.

[Kermit911]

:cuss: Very Good Point :cuss:

[GEM]

Mike1966A - if anyone qualifies as a waste of skin - look in the mirror.

:fire:

[P95Carry]

There is something called ''tact'' ... ''sensitivity'' even. We are straying into Low Road territory now and the thread has about run its course IMO.

CLOSED!