"Your Local Armed Merchants" ???


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David
March 7, 2003, 04:17 PM
I was at my local gun shop today, and a thought hit me.

Like most other gun stores, all the clerks were armed.

I don't know if this subject was ever brought up before, however, I was thinking what if the clerks at other types of stores were openly armed -- i.e. the supermarket, the dry cleaner, the baker, the card store, etc.

In other words, why, in general, are gun store clerks the only retail workers to be openly "packing heat"?

Assuming that the armed clerks were properly qualified and trained with their sidearms, would you prefer to shop and to business at stores with armed personnel?

As for me -- Yes.:neener:

I think those places of business would be at a much lower risk of robbery and other types of violent crimes if the clerks were openly armed.

Just my 2 cents...:what:

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Larry Ashcraft
March 7, 2003, 04:28 PM
I was threatened a few years ago by some lunatic before hours at my shop, so I carried a S&W model 36 for a few days.

Even in this generally pro-gun town, it seemed to make my customers uneasy to see their favorite trophy-builder and engraver walking around armed.

Oh, I'm still armed, but the customers can't tell. ;)

tcdrennen
March 7, 2003, 04:43 PM
About 20 years ago, when I used to cash my paycheck weekly at a liquor store that also cashed checks for hundreds of local shipyard workers every week, the store staff were ALL armed with sidearms and one guy sat on a stool in the corner with a loaded 870.

I always felt very comfortable shopping and carrying cash there.:D

bogie
March 7, 2003, 04:55 PM
There's a bar in my neighborhood that does a large check cashing bidness. Word on the street is that the place is connected, so I suppose they're probably not going to have any problems...

jsalcedo
March 7, 2003, 04:57 PM
I'm friends with a bar owner who takes security very seriously.
I've worked a few of his larger events and was shown what he keeps around the bar.

On his person beretta .25 auto (tip up barrel), Taurus PT99

Under the bar .45 auto

In the office Taurus mod 66 .357 nickel.

Of course those are the ones he says we know about.

As a private citizen he has been involved in 3 shootouts.

I'll try to get him over here to THR to tell some stories.

spacemanspiff
March 7, 2003, 05:08 PM
i remember reading somewhere that OSHA demands that employers provide a 'safe' environment for employees, and that firearms on premises violated this requirement. well you have to be a Xpert Member to access OSHA's guidelines and recommendations (costing something like $400) so all i could find in 15 minutes was this pdf file, not from OSHA, but from what looks like a LEA about workplace violence.
http://www.opm.gov/ehs/workplac/pdf/part3_5.pdf

notice page 9 and what it suggests for dealing with hostile/violent customers/co-workers.

JohnBT
March 7, 2003, 06:49 PM
Jeweler recalls day of robbery
BY GORDON HICKEY
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER(Richmond, Virginia)


Gary Baker still keeps a .357-caliber handgun on his desk.

Gary Baker was face to face with a masked man holding a .45-caliber handgun, and for just a split second, he didn't know what to do.

He thought that maybe he was seeing things or that someone was playing some kind of a joke.

Then another masked man closer to the front door of Baker's jewelry store let fly with a blast from a .12-gauge sawed-off shotgun, shattering a display case. Baker opened up.

When the gunfire stopped, two masked robbers lay dead.

Looking back on that event a little more than seven years ago, Baker would change one thing: He'd be quicker on the trigger.

He has had plenty of time to reflect on his actions that day, Dec. 2, 1994. "Mentally, I've always said I won't wait so long to shoot."

Baker is a calm, reasonable, well-spoken and well-armed advocate for every person's right to take up arms in defense of life and property. He keeps a .357-caliber on his desk, but he's no vigilante, is not a member of the National Rifle Association and stopped hunting years ago because he killed a deer and "it was a very sickening feeling."

But he has no remorse for the two men killed in his store. He believes they had it coming.

They were Thomas Jefferson Salter, 56, of Nashville, and William Lawrence Head, 71, of New Orleans.

The shooting began at 10:25 a.m. on Dec. 2, 1994, a Friday. Salter, armed with a .45, jumped onto a counter right in front of Baker's desk. Head, armed with a shotgun, was at the door.

When Salter died, he was a suspect in a string of bank and jewelry store holdups in the Nashville, Tenn., area. He also was wanted by the FBI for the theft of an $850,000 collection of rare stamps in Raleigh, N.C.

Head's criminal career spanned half a century. He was suspected of robbing numerous jewelry stores and banks, committing burglaries and smuggling tons of marijuana in from Mexico.

Since the shootout at his Beverly Hills Jewelers store, Baker has become something of a spokesman for the right to bear arms. He can't understand why some stores and other businesses have a policy against fighting back.

Shortly after the gunfight at Beverly Hills, a woman came into the store and said she knew of a local motel that had a policy against guns.

"I'm not going to do that to my people here," Baker said. "It is their option to defend themselves."

Asked whether he thinks about that day, Baker said, "I think about it every day.

"I thought about it before it happened, and that's why we survived."

A long counter runs almost all the way around the inside of the store. A clerk standing behind that counter is always within reach of a gun. One after another, the butt ends stick out like so many cannons on a galleon.

How many guns? "A lot," Baker said with a smile.

The store is stocked with .38-caliber and .357-caliber handguns, which are easy to maintain and use.

"We constantly review where the guns are. We constantly remind ourselves to stay separate."

He keeps at least one more employee in the store than he needs. "We want to avoid the war if any way possible." But he added, "We want to win."

Beverly Hills isn't only ready for robbers, it's also unusually stacked against burglars. When the employees leave at night, they put boards with nails driven through them on the floor. Trip wires, strobe lights and bells and whistles so loud no one would be able to stand them are designed to keep criminals away.

Baker also has installed a machine that would fill the store with smoke in seconds, smoke so thick a burglar would have trouble finding anything, including his way out.

Baker hasn't lost any sleep over what happened that day in 1994. The men he and his two employees beat in that gunfight were hard-core criminals.

Is he troubled at having killed a human being? "Not in this particular case, no. . . . Society would have been better off if somebody had shot those two guys 20 years ago.

"It was so cut and dried. You fight or die."

Standing Wolf
March 7, 2003, 08:42 PM
There are two groceries in my neighborhood. One has gun magazines in the rack; one doesn't. I patronize the one that does. I'd be glad to patronize any business whose employees are openly armed.

Woodchuck
March 7, 2003, 08:55 PM

David
March 7, 2003, 10:26 PM
Why do you think that openly armed workers are so rare other than in gun shops?

Are they not "PC" or are there other reasons?

:uhoh:

Thanks for your opinions...

Zundfolge
March 8, 2003, 12:39 AM
If there where more businessmen like him there would be less criminals.


I do disagree with one point: "Beverly Hills isn't only ready for robbers, it's also unusually stacked against burglars. When the employees leave at night, they put boards with nails driven through them on the floor. Trip wires, strobe lights and bells and whistles so loud no one would be able to stand them are designed to keep criminals away."

If the place is on fire some night I'd hate to see a fireman injured :(


Why do you think that openly armed workers are so rare other than in gun shops?

Are they not "PC" or are there other reasons?
I think they are afraid it would drive off too many sheep—er—customers :p

.45Ruger
March 9, 2003, 06:38 PM
I work as a manager for a large grocery chain. We sell gun mags and have no policy against either open carry or CCW but there is that lousy line in the employee handbook which bars us frim being armed while on the clock. They even try to extend that rule to our personal vehicles because they are parked in their lot. The easy solution to that one is to park in the lot of the business next store. I think most stores bar employees from being armed for insurance reasons. They have the attitude of give them what they want because it is not your money anyway. Since the company has no regard for my life I have NO regard for their merchandise. I will not chase or even confront shoplifters. I simply don't care anymore.

10-Ring
March 9, 2003, 06:59 PM
Back when I managed a retail shop, there was a period of time when I carried a gun. It was a period of time in which the surrounding shops in he neighborhood were experiencing a large number of robberies & wasn't going to allow my customers, my employees or myself to fall victim to one of those idiots.

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