[Slater]

http://www.colt.com/mil/news.asp

Does anyone recall how this one was resolved?

[Henry Bowman]

I don't have an update, but given that it was filed less than a year ago, I would doubt that there has been any resolution yet. With the exception of the patent infringement claim (which was way down on their list of claims), Colt proving its case or not depends very much on public perception. They took on 2 formidable and well capitalized foes.

I'd say this lawsuit is about as far along as a .50BMG projectile as it passes the 100 yard target stand. It's just getting going.

[whm1974]

silly question but what's the diffence between the M4 and the XM177(comando) besides the longer barrel?

-Bill

[natedog]

silly question but what's the diffence between the M4 and the XM177(comando) besides the longer barrel?


M-4 has safe, semi, and burst firing modes- XM177 has safe, semi, auto
M-4 has an M-16A1 profile barrel under the handguards, but a heavy barrel forward of the front sight, with a cut in the barrel for attaching an M-203 grenade launcher
The M-4 has a newer style telestock, with 4 (now 6 positions) instead of 2
M-4 has fatter, double shielded handguards
M-4 has a flattop reciever (just a few M-4s were made with a carry handle)
A2 flash hider
A2 reinforcements on the receiver, and a raised "fence" around the magazine well


Early XM-177
http://world.guns.ru/assault/car15.jpg

M-4 Carbine
http://www.colt.com/law/images/m4.jpg

[Slater]

Admittedly I know next to nothing about copyright law, but (as I understand it) the designation "M4" was assigned to this weapon by the US Government. Like M1 tank, F-16 fighter plane, or M998 HMMWV. Can a Government-assigned designation really be copyrighted?

[Boats]

As I understand it, the suit is less about the designation "M4" though that is important to Colt, but more about Colt's defense of the design work that went into the cut down M-16 rifle, that its imitators simply copied and capitalized upon. The gov't may have designated it, but all of the hard work was done in Hartford.

[Lone_Gunman]

Too bad Colt won't do everyone a favor, sell whatever copyrights and intellectual data they have left, and just go out of business quietly.

[aroshi]

I'm curious to see if the "M4" designation point will get thrown out like the "MMX" designation did when Intel sued other 3rd party makers for using that acronym.

[Wildalaska]

Too bad Colt won't do everyone a favor, sell whatever copyrights and intellectual data they have left, and just go out of business quietly.

How did Sarah Brady get in here :scrutiny:

WildcantbeleivesomefolksAlaska

[Slater]

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/February2005/10/c3098.html

Heck, Colt just bought the company that makes the Canadian M16 copies.

[Slater]

http://stinet.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/fulcrum_main.pl?database=ft_u2&keyfieldvalue=ADA369360&searchterms=%28DOC_TEXT+CONTAINS+%27m4%27+%7C+%27carbine%27+%29&SQL=SELECT+RELEVANCE%28%272%3A4%27%29+AS+SCORE%2C+TABLENAME%28%29+AS+TABLE_NAME+%2C+ADNUMBER%2C+TITLE%2CPAGES%2CMEDIACODE+FROM+TR_U2+UNION+FT_U2++WHERE+%28DOC_TEXT+CONTAINS+%27m4%27+%7C+%27carbine%27+%29+ORDER+BY+SCORE+DESC%3B&hit=19&max=100&searchid=110823980819999&submitbutton=Citation%2FDocument%28s%29

Evidently there's been problems in the past for Colt and the M4. You can read the entire document to get a feel for what went on (I think this has been posted before). There were recommendations and at least one engineer was censured. The Navy more or less told everyone to shove it ;)

[BlkHawk73]

Colt is just another example of the Amrican way - SUE to get what you THINK you deserve. :neener:

[rock jock]

Colt is using litigation to compensate for their pathetic lack of marketing prowess and elitist attitude.

[Lone_Gunman]

How did Sarah Brady get in here

Actually Sarah would be proud of Colt's new marketing policies regarding semi-autos.

Maybe you should try this Wild:

WildputadancingponyonaturdandiwouldloveitAlaska.

[Wildalaska]

Actually Sarah would be proud of Colt's new marketing policies regarding semi-autos.

And proud of FNs, SIGs and all the other companies that dont make guns for civvies.....


Anyway theres them that gots em, and them that wished they did

WildostiresomeAlaska

[coltcarbine]

Unfortunately Sarah would be proud!! :banghead:

[Lone_Gunman]

Anyway theres them that gots em, and them that wished they did

Yep, I got 'em. The guns are nice, but the company sucks.

I am not real into what Sig makes, Wild, but I am curious... what semi-autos did they used to sell to civilians, but sell no longer?

[Wildalaska]

Ever hear of the 550

WildonlycopsAlaska

[Lone_Gunman]

No, like I said I am not very familiar with Sig rifles. When did they sell the 550 to the public at large? I dont think I have ever seen one on the used market.

[Wildalaska]

prior to the import ban

WildbutheyaintgonnacahngeyourirrationalhatredofafineguncompanyanywayAlaska

[Lone_Gunman]

So the fact that Sig has done it means it is ok for Colt to do it?

Do you agree with either company?

I like Colt's guns, but their politics are bad.

[Warbow]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the 550 isn't sold to the public anymore because of the '89 Import Ban, not because of some decision by SIG that the general public isn't good enough for them. There are a few grandfathered 550s out there, but they cost a ridiculous amount because of their rarity.

[Lone_Gunman]

Well now thats an interesting tidbit conveniently left out of discussion.

Are you saying the US government, and not company politics, is what led to the 550 no longer being available?

[Wildalaska]

Take about 8 parts I think to sell 550s again, and SIG wont do it.

I dont worry about "politics" with gun companies, I only worry about quality

If I worried about any persons politics (other than who I vote for) I would go nuts, with a few egregious examples.

WildlikehboAlaska

[Warbow]

Also, isn't FN going to be selling semi-auto, non-NFA (length wise) versions of the P90 and F2000 in the near future?

[Lone_Gunman]

Maybe FN and Sig aren't good examples. Ruger is probably a better example, they agree with Colt that simple civilians don't need that kind of weapon.

[c_yeager]

Too bad Colt won't do everyone a favor, sell whatever copyrights and intellectual data they have left, and just go out of business quietly.

Yes, if there was no Colt there wouldnt be any weapons worthy of being copied by a dozen large companies in this country, problem solved. :rolleyes:

[Lone_Gunman]

c_yeager:



Many of Colt's most popular firearms were not designed by anyone at Colt. The AR style rifle and 1911 immediately come to mind. In fact, the only Colt-designed firearm that is copied by other manufacturers is the SAA.

The All American, Double Eagle, and whatever Colt called that hideous 22 pistol from a few years back were designed by Colt, and I don't see other manufacturers rushing to copy these gems.

Mostly though, Colt buys someone elses design, does a fair job manufacturing the product, and a totally crappy job marketing and selling it, and thus lets other manufacturers come in and steal their business.

If Colt had been run well and able to keep up with demand, Busmaster, Kimber, and Springfield probably would not exist today.

I don't really take copying Colt firearms as a compliment to Colt. It is more of a reflection of how sorry the company is run. The copiers sprang up to meet a demand that Colt could not or would not fill.

[Wildalaska]

Yep Colt in trouble.....

Old equipment, High wages, no advertising, dont give the people what they want (well at least some folk)...

And there is a waiting list a mile long for their products.....

O thays right, some people are idiots who buy inferior Colts when they can get better Brazilian made Springers...I forgot...

So everything Colt makes is pre sold, while Kimber, Springer Glock and the others have so much excess production capacity and so little demand in comparison to their capacity that they are the ones in trouble...

As to any gun comapny that doesnt gimme what I WANT or in any fashion does something against my politics...I hope they go out of business too...

Hey where did all the gun companies go?

WildthisisisbadascaliberchoicethreadsAlaska

[dcloudy777@aol.com]

I'm with Lone Gunman on this one... what SINCE the 19th century has Colt developed, not just obtained the rights to, that anyone would want to copy?

DanO

[Titus]

And there is a waiting list a mile long for their products....

Just think how great they would be if they could make even fewer guns!

[Lone_Gunman]

I am just waiting on Kimber to start copying the All-American... thats gonna be one sweet piece.