[HKcenterMass]

Hey all, Im in the market for a 9mm, I really like the g19, seems like it would be pretty easy to conceal, but I just cant get past not having an external saftey. Does anyone know if there is an after market safety available? I currently have an HK USP 45, and i really like having the safety. I've been told its all about proper handling,and i agree, but i cant help but think that i might accidentally bump that trigger on the draw, or the trigger might get bumped while holstering.

[alamo]

Here is an option. I got one for certain situations, they work.

http://members.aol.com/saftblok/

[10-Ring]

As long as you use a qualit holster & sound gun handling practices, you're fine. If you're confident in carrying & shooting a revolver w/o a safety, the Glock is similar beast.

PS...if you're satisfied & happy w/ your USP 45, get a USPc 9 or 45 for carry.

[SDC]

Cominolli Custom also makes a manual safety for the Glock; you can see one at http://www.cominolli.com/glocksafety.htm .
HTH

[El Tejon]

Do you have similar concerns with a revolver?

Training and the adherence to Rule #3 will solve your concerns.:)

[DonGlock26]

You can put an 8lbs. trigger spring in the pistol. Try www.glockmeister.com. and www.glocktalk.com.

Good Luck,

Don

[GunNut]

If you can deal with a Glock as it is made (no manual safety) then go ahead and get one.

If you want a safety, get a gun with one.

Why screw around and make a reliable gun like a Glock, potentially unrealiable by adding an external safety?

I've got a Glock 27 IWB right now, it has a 3.5# connector (5lb trigger). It's in a Sidearmor IWB and is not going to accidently fire....

Steve

[billcameron]

I would suggest you carry the glock for a time with no round in chamber, but with trigger in forward/fire position. After you have carried that way awhile and trigger has never snapped on empty chamber, you may feel more comfortable with carrying glock with round in chamber. Also you can make trigger heavier. I have a NY1 trigger spring in my glock with standard connector. Or you can leave in standard trigger spring and go to 8 lb connector. Parts are easy to change yourself and cheap. For parts and online instructions try www.topglock.com www.glockmeister.com
And don't forget a good holster that covers trigger. You might want to make your first glock a used one, then if you try it out and don't like it can resell it for around what you paid. Good luck.

[HKcenterMass]

no, i dont feel unafe with my revolver, but it does take a little more travel and pressure to pull that trigger. perhaps i'm worrying too much over the whole thing. I thought about a USP 9mm, but good luck finding a 15 round mag, its 10+1, and thats what i have with my .45.

[jc2]

Do you have similar concerns with a revolver?
No, but a revolver (shooting DA) does not fire with a half inch of trigger pull (of which the first 99% offers basically no resistance) and 5.5 of trigger pressure. A revolver also offers both visual and tactile feedback before it fires.
If you want a safety, get a gun with one.

Why screw around and make a reliable gun like a Glock, potentially unrealiable by adding an external safety?
The Cominolli Safety does make the Glock unreliable, and in fact, does not even violate the warranty. If you want an operator safety for your Glock go ahead and get one. There is evidently enough demand for them to make them profitable--both in the form of the Saf-T-Blok and the Cominolli Safety. In fact, Glock has manufactured weapons with operator safeties for LE contracts.

[RON in PA]

Get a SIG 239, 229 or 228 or a Ruger K95. They are all roughly the same size as a G19 and give you the revolver-like first shot. Carry the G19 like an Israeli, ie, with an empty chamber and load and fire in one motion. Or just learn to live with the Glock as Gaston makes it and learn to use a trigger-covering holster and learn to keep your finger off the trigger.

It's all in your head.

[Tecolote]

Glocks do have an external safety and internal safeties too. If you don't pull the trigger properly they won't fire.

It's worth spending a little time to become familiar with how the safeties work. You can check out diagrams at www.glock.com

[Nero Steptoe]

Per advice from a certain GTer, the problem isn't with Glock modification, it's with behavior modification. The GTer cheerfully recommends Paxil.

[El Tejon]

jc2, if you do not press the trigger, the Glock will not fire, no matter its trigger weight.:)

[Handy]

I would second the vote for a NY1 trigger installation. The NY trigger modestly increases pull weight, makes the sear engagement more positive and eliminates the danger of trigger spring breakage (of which, I've seen several).

It will leave you with a trigger a bit more like a very good revolver, but still have the quick sear reset of the regular gun.

Personally, I don't agree that avoiding NDs is as simple as "don't pull the trigger". 90% of all handgun training IS repetetively pulling the trigger, and that may be a hard habit to avoid under stress.

The G19 is a nice sized and ok priced gun. There aren't many alternatives that have available 15 round mags. P99? Or you could look at a S&W. Some of the chopped 59 series are smaller and not to heavy. Or a High Power Detective with the Fast Fire trigger/safety mod. That gun would behave alot like a Glock with a safety. Both have cheap hi-caps.

[bad_dad_brad]

Often I worry as well about the Glock. But it truly is all in my head. If you do study the safety mechanisms and the ingenious way they work, the only way the gun will fire is if you pull the trigger. It should be holstered however.

There was a story not too long ago about a Sheriff who had an AD when he pulled his keys out of his pocket that caught on to the trigger of a G26. The gun was unholstered. Later the Sheriff wrote himself up as being an idiot. Bet he carries holstered now.

[pogo2]

I always think of the holster as the first line of safety on a Glock. As long as the gun is in a rigid holster covering the trigger guard, it won't fire because the trigger is enclosed. By drawing the gun you remove the "holster" safety manually. It sounds like the Sheriff mentioned who carried a G26 unholstered in his pocket learned this the hard way.

[jc2]

jc2, if you do not press the trigger, the Glock will not fire, no matter its trigger weight.
El Tejon, your point?

A cocked and unlocked with the grip safety inactivated Series 80, 1911 will not fire if you do not press the trigger.

A cocked SA revolver (at least of New Model Ruger persuasion) will not fire if you do not press the trigger.

A cocked DA revolver will not fire if you do not press the trigger.

A cocked Sig Sauer will not fire if you do not press the trigger.

A cocked Beretta 92/96/Cougar will not fire if you do not press the trigger.

The point was there is a significant difference in the trigger pulls, both in terms of travel and weight, between the standard Glock trigger and DA revolver.

By ignoring significant differnces in the resistance and distance, the "it will not fire if you do not press the trigger" is nothing more than a meaningless (and mindless) platitude.

[FPrice]

"Here is an option. I got one for certain situations, they work."

I second your suggestion. I own and use one also. Works for me.

[El Tejon]

jc2, my point is that safety lies between one's ears, not in mechanical gizmos. Just reminding HK of Rule #3 and all.

The Four Rules are not platitudes; they are life.

[jc2]

El Tejon -

Your post (addressed to me, by the way, not HK), which I quoted, was not in reference to one of the "Four Rules." It was in reference to a post I had made comparing the standard Glock trigger with a DA revolver trigger.

The logical (and meaningless) conclusion to be drawn from your platitude ("if you do not press the trigger, it will not fire, no matter its trigger weight") is that there is no difference in the way you treat/handle a cocked SA with 2.5 pound trigger that "breaks like a glass rod" and a DA revolver with a 12 pound trigger.

There is a significant difference between a standard Glock trigger and a DA revolver trigger. To ignore or belittle that difference by quoting a platitude is both meaningless and mindless.

[El Tejon]

jc2, that is the correct conclusion. No matter the trigger weight, Rule 3 applies. The Four Rules are never meaningless.:)

[jc2]

El Tejon -

For example??? -

1. Approach all firearms as though they are always loaded, at all times.
-- Never clean your firearm--it is always loaded.

2. Always point the muzzle in a safe direction.
-- Never use a horizontal or an inverted shoulder holster.
-- Never carry a weapon in holster above the ground floor.

Like anything else, the "Four Rules" require a measure of common sense, and when that is lacking, they are meaningless.

[El Tejon]

jc2, Rule #1 reads, "All guns are always loaded."

If you clean, you should disassembly the weapon so that you do not commit a violation of Rule #2, "do not allow the muzzle to cover anything you do not wish to destroy." Shoulder holsters have a host of problems with safety being a large concern.

Common sense is adherence to the Four Rules. They keep us and others alive.:)

[jc2]

As we can see, there are even different (slightly) versions of the the "Four Rules."

Rule 1 reads, "Approach all firearms as though they are always loaded, at all times," or if you prefer, "All guns are always loaded." You apply a measure of common sense to the interpretation and application of Rule 1 whenever you clean your firearms. If you did not, you would never clean a weapon because Rule 1 states, "All guns are always loaded, period" and you do not clean a loaded weapon.

The "Four Rules" are only meaningful if they are applied with common sense. The "Four Rules," regardless of your preferred version, are just a capable of misinterpretation and misuse as anything else man has ever conceived.

[Tecolote]

Let me know who wins the swordfight.:rolleyes:

[GunNut]

I was kinda thinking these two could get together and have a cock fight....:neener:

Then we'd know if HKcenterMass could get a Glock or HK or ?



HKcenterMass,

You still there? or did this 4 rules of gun safety debate turn you into a anti-gunner?

So what direction are you leaning?

Steve

[ACP]

I carried a Glock 19 for several years in a Blade Tech OWB holster and never gave it a second thought. Wonderful design, and you have three trigger options. I wouldn't carry any gun in a pocket or on the waistband w/o a holster; not so much for safety, but for positioning and getting a full grip on the draw.

Personally I wouldn't add any aftermarket safety. Those PDs that have, or are considering it, are likely being driven by lawyers and insurance companies. Plus, they have varied forces, including some that probably don't like handguns.

I'd get the Glock and a good holster. Your concerns sound like those of some 1911 afficiandos (myself included) who worry about cocked and locked. There are tradeoffs. The Glock is simple to operate, same trigger pull, lightweight, rust resistant.

[El Tejon]

Ahhh, come on, guys. We know how serious the Four Rules are; we read about violations here on THR all the time (often tragic). As a new shooter, HK must know how serious they are. Once he learns this, he will no longer have the concerns he does have.

[Handy]

Why is there always the assumption that if your forebrain knows a rule, your cerebellum is always going to follow it?

[El Tejon]

Handy, no such assumption. That's why we train. To program the default settings of the computer.:)

[Handy]

Like I pointed out earlier, 90% of that training is pulling the trigger, which is muscle memory. The part of the training that keeps your finger off the trigger is largely higher brain decision making. The two are at odds, your finger seeks the trigger, your brain tells it to wait.

That is the true function of a heavier (DA) trigger or a manual safety; something that provides resistance to muscle memory and unconscious reaction so your brain can get back in the game.

The point about the holster as a safety with the Glock is a good one. But what happens if you draw your weapon and must hang on to it for awhile? I think this is the situation where police are most likely to have Glock NDs; running or waiting with pistol in hand.

Not that you'll be convinced, but as a military pilot I've spent hundreds of hours JUST practicing Emergency Procedures. I've seen enough well trained pilots screw up under stress to know that training is only one element in preventing the wrong control input. I am now convinced that everyone could use some backup to keep their reactions from overriding their decisions. We employ many such backups in aviation.

I just don't think the standard Glock trigger provides much backup at all.

[El Tejon]

Handy, when running or waiting or at all other times, Rule #3 is in effect. The Captain always has the Four Rules light on.:)

Po-po were having NDs with revovlers long before the EastEmpire plastice piece came along. They weren't following Rule #3 with M66s either.

You're right though. My understanding is that years back they did teach scans and sweeps with the finger on the trigger (yikes) and maybe an extra few pounds of trigger pull would avert a tragedy. However, I would argue training always beats mechanical gizmos. YMMV.

[Handy]

I'm sorry, it was my understanding that some of the worst ND stats occured after transitioning from revolvers, to Glocks. DC police come to mind.

It's hard to think of directions in a city that a gun could be "safely" pointed.

[BLKLABMAN]

For me the choice is simple. I would go with the H&k, and never have second thoughts.
I have shot and owned both Glocks and H&K's. Both a excellent handguns.
But for me the H&K just feels better, and I'm more accurate with it.

[.45Ruger]

If you really want a gun with an extenal safety that is fine. The trick is buy one make that way. After market parts put on a gun not designed for them just complicate things. Better to find a 9mm you can shoot well that was designed with an external safety.

[HKcenterMass]

HKcenterMass, You still there? or did this 4 rules of gun safety debate turn you into a anti-gunner?

Yes sir, i'm still here. I realllly like that g19, and i agree, safe gun handling is the best safety...but admitidly i've done some pretty numb skull things...not with guns, little things, like being in a daze and blowing through a red light... with guns, i have a heightened sense, more so than anyone i've seen at the range, but i cant help but think of that one in a million opps.