Bad shooters make me feel so good!

I am, at best, an average shot with a handgun (old eyes, skinny arms, shakey). When I go to the outdoor range at the club I belong to, I try to do so when I know the good shooters won't be there, because I feel embarassed.

Because of a number of factors, I've been going to the indoor range at my buddy's gun shop, one factor being that he lets me shoot for free.

Anyway, everytime I go, I see people shooting all over the paper or not hitting it at all. Today I took my Kimber Pro Carry, put a target out at seven yards, and put the shots from two magazines into a 1" to 1 1/2" hole. At 25 yards I'd be delighted, but this was at seven. Ok, it's my usual, I thought to myself.

Two guys from another bay--who had been shooting all over an 11"x17" target at seven yards--came over to ask about the gun, load, etc.

Does anyone else get a morale boost from bad shooters? :D

I like the ego boost, but I've been shocked and sometimes feared for my safety by the poor gun handling skills and the lack of safety more times than I've been complemented.

I'm amazed at the responces I get at the range.

I SUCK But. I can shoot 3" rapid fire groups, and 1 to 1 1/2" slow fire groups at 25 feet with my Sig 239 and my Ruger P95(the Hi-Power is slightly better) But those guns are all more accurate then I am.

I wonder how people can shoot so bad. Then I watch them shoot. I've been amazed they hit the target at all ! Flinching is the most common problem, but there are those that just turn away as the pull the trigger, and those that are pulling the shot. As they pull the trigger the gun is pulling left or right. If I'm next to someone that is having problems I'll offer some help. As we all should, they are a new shooter, and we need them. Most are very receptive to the help and will talk your ear off about their new gun. Some are jerks, we don't need them.

Absolutely. It makes me deeply ashamed, but I do get a boost from seeing just how badly most folks shoot--or rather, what a good shot I must look like to them. Then I come back and look at Stephen Camp's range reports to cut that self-satisfied feeling good and short ;)
cg

I too suck, but when I go to the range I always encounter a large number of people who suck worse, and a real small number of Godlike shooters (you know, the old guys with little H&R .22 revolvers making one 1/4" hole at 50 yards :p ).

I'm still surprised how bad some people shoot. I'm always seeing some guy taking his time and still only putting a couple of rounds out of 10 on the paper of a B24 target at only 7 yards! The first time I shot I could do better then that (at least all my shots go on the paper).


This means that either there are a lot of below average shooters out there, or I'm a natural and should practice more and get real good (I'm going to pretend its the latter ... that way I have an excuse to go to the range more often :) )

Monkey, if you ever feel really bad, just call and WE'LL go shooting together. You'll feel great!:D

Does anyone else get a morale boost from bad shooters?

No.

I used to be a pretty good bullseye shooter. I competed. I was co-captain of a team. We won some matches, lost more than we won, and had lots of fun. We tried hard. Most of us were highly competitive, and all of us were good sports.

I don't still see well, and between arthritis and computer wrist, I'm a lot unsteadier than I used to be. I still compete against myself. It saddens me when I shoot badly, gladdens me when I shoot well.

If someone else is shooting worse than I, it doesn't mean I'm shooting better: merely that he's shooting even worse. When people ask, I offer tips and coaching and encouragement, all of which were given to me free of charge by generous old-timers over the years. When people don't ask, I keep my mouth shut and keep trying for 10s and Xs.

Unfortunately I am usually the guy who is a terrible shot. But I try not to let it bother me. I love shooting, even I suck at it.

I usually pay attention only to my shooting unless it is a competition or wager ( I don't like having to clean up the range If I loose ) or when someone shoots my targets (grrrrrrrr!!!!) I have had people walk up to me to ask what to do to shoot better or compliment me on my scores , I don't mind giving them advice when asked , I found out along time ago when I start bragging my scores go to squat ( over confidence??) :rolleyes:

No, but good shooters make me feel bad. Does that count?

pax

To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first, and call whatever you hit the target. -- Ashleigh Brilliant

I'm nothing special but I feel like an expert when I shoot with my friend. He is without question, the worst shot I have ever seen! He is bad at handguns, rifles and shotguns (the trifecta).:D

He has been shooting for 3 years and he is only getting slightly better, God bless him. I have tried to help him but he won't do what I tell him. He is not a jerk about it, he just can't seem to learn.:uhoh: I told him to get a .22 and shoot it a bunch to get rid of his bad flinch but he won't do it.:rolleyes: He has a CZ-40 and I think the recoil is too much for him. I told him to consider a 9mm but I think he likes that machoness of the "big" .40.:rolleyes:

I was at an indoor range in Millington, TN several years back, putting the ol' S&W 64-1 through its paces. The 2 guys next to me had these huge gun cases out with a display of nice semi-autos and pretty accessories.

I had one round left, so I thought I'd have some fun and try and do a quick head shot, so I put my lonely .357 shell in the cyllinder and I sent the target all the way to the back of the range (25 yds.)

I holstered, then drew and fired.

I pushed the button for the target return...

And it was right between the eyes! I couldn't have done it again in a million years! The guys next to me were very impressed, and asked me to do it again. "Sorry, all out of ammo!"

I watched them for a while and it turned out they had more money than skill (though either they or their gun-dealer had excellent taste!), but they were trying and were methodical about safety. You could see them silently mouthing things like "finger off the trigger" and "squeeze... don't jerk."

And after it was all done, I was just as impressed with them.

I suck and I wish someone was around that I could make feel better with my horrible shooting. That way maybe I could get some tips at how to improve my horrible shooting.

I'm a terrible shot. Like a lot of other people I've got bad vision but adding to the problem is a tremor caused by a benign tumor growing on the nerves to my right arm. But, before the health problems, I was still a bad shot. Putting all my shots in a fist sized group at thirty feet makes me very happy, and it doesn't always happen. That said, it seems shooting is like golf. If you shoot 85 once in your life as a golfer, that is what you'll tell people you "normally" shoot. Doesn't matter that you had the day of your life or that you haven't broken 90 since. You shoot 85 because that's what you shot, once! Most shooters are the same way. They think because of one great group, or day, that they can tell everyone shooting .5 inch groups at 1000 yards with a snubby revolver is normal. Some people are excluded from this, the guys that can really shoot and work at it. Someone already mentioned Mr. Camp, he always posts a target to prove his statements. Sometimes I wish he wouldn't, then I could think he was making it up as well and feel better about myself. :D There are also the people that say up front it was a lucky shot before telling a story about one great moment. They are excluded as well. I'm not trying to upset anyone, it's just the way things are sometimes. Think about it. Everyone has a friend that doesn't shoot as well as they think. But, there's always an excuse for the bad day he's having. If you don't have a friend like that then it's you! :D

I now know my purpose on the range ;)

It wasn't my intent to say that comparing myself to bad shooters is my benchmark. Every trip to the range has a purpose, even though I'm doing it for fun: to get better. And, over the last five years (I was away from handgunning for a long time; rifles, you know) I have gotten much better.

The problem with asking good shooters to help out is that everyone seems to have his own little technique: hold the pistol this way, that way. The best advice I've gotten has been from a certified NRA pistol instructor, and from Massad Ayoob. Both helped my shooting immensely.

As for the guys who were shooting all over the paper: they were having a good time. That's what it's supposed to be about, isn't it?

It really made my day when a bunch of little gang-banger types came up to the range I frequent. They had a couple of 9mm's and a couple had 22's and they threw out a couple of coffee cans and a couple of cardboard boxes to shoot at. They went through about 4 boxes of 9mm and who knows how many 22 shells and they thought that they were prety hot stuff. They hit the coffee cans about 6 times and the boxes about the same, out of about 200 rounds of 9mm. In the mean time my son and I were shooting some 357's at clay targets at 100yrds. and we cleaned off the birds with a couple of cylinders full. These little ganger types were terrrible shots and were just amazed that we could hit clay birds at 100yrds with a handgun. And to top it all off they left their targets and brass laying around when they left. So we picked up their trash and picked up their 9mm emptys. All in all I felt pretty good that these yardbirds couldn't shoot worth crap. :D

Yes, it makes me feel good when something is said about my shooting prowess. I used to be even better about 8 years ago. (Custom Colt, own reloads, etc.) But right now, it seems, when I'm at the range, I'm the best there. Lucky for me, there hasn't been any bullseye shooters show up.:D I generally shoot at 10 yds and can usually keep everything in the 10 ring with an occasional flyer. (foxtrot uniform) I've gotten a lot of compliments lately, but I'm quite sure my 2 main carries will outshoot me, and that's what I would recommend for everyone. Get the best equipment you can afford.

I am thankful that there is no magical accuracy elixer. Anyone who shoots well with a gun has earned it and generally has the dicipline to go along with it. These people are generally safe, polite, and knowledgable.

Ok. My story. I was at the indoor range about a month ago with one other shooter on the 10 yard line. He was shooting a new Springfield 1911 and getting about an 8 inch group. Not terrible. He just needed some work. I was shooting my CZ and doing 1-2 inch groups. He asked what I was shooting. After telling him, he said perhaps he should pick one up so that he can shoot like that. I told him that the Springfield will do that with a little more practice and perhaps some training. He didn't believe me, so I offered to give it a try. He said, "Sure", in a "wait 'till he tries this" tone of voice.

Seven rounds. One hole. And an eighth just off to the side. It took all of my self-control to stay calm and not yell "Woo Hoo!"

I couldn't do that with my CZ. Maybe I should get a Springfield.

if shooters like me are making all ya'll feel so good, maybe you should float a box or two of ammo my way. :D

i have a difficult time keeping the gun steady as i pull the trigger. when i dryfire i can isolate the problem and work on it, but as soon as i get to the range and try to implement the solutions i worked on, all that practice flys out the window.

but i now have a plan. i'll fire a couple magazines worth from a seated position using the table as a rest. that will give an impressive group and i can then claim my subsequent shots taken from a standing position that fly all around the target went through the first groups.

that way all you 'shooters-who-are-better-than-me-but-use-my-ineptitude-to-feel-better-about-themselves' will have to use someone else to boost your egos with. :neener:

Spacemanspiff, have you ever tried dry-firing at the range for a bit before you start actually shooting? I started doing that many sessions back, and it seemed to help.

What would help more is exercise (for me, I mean). Most of the good shots I've seen are stocky guys with strong arms. They don't shake much.

Does anyone else get a morale boost from bad shooters?

As a slight variation on this...I'm not that great of a "shot" myself. I have some really good days at the range, and then I have some "okay" days at the range accuracy-wise.

One my buddies from all the way back in junior high and I used to go shooting...for some reason, I could pick up any gun of his and shoot just phenomenally with it...but only for a few shots, because that's about the time he'd take it back from me and tell me to quit embarrassing him hahaha...did this once with his blackpowder rifle and later with a Chinese AK of his.

Now I have my own AKM-variant rifle...and let's just say I'm very much still learning how to be more accurate with it! :D

Most of the good shots I've seen are stocky guys with strong arms. They don't shake much. They probably don't drink coffee either.:D

what i really need is to unlearn all the bad habits i adopted when i first started shooting. i flinch, my breath control is nonexistant, and if i'm not mashing the trigger i'm pushing the gun forward in anticipation of recoil.
my best shot is usually the first shot out of a magazine. the rest seem to disintegrate before they even hit the paper.

no, i'm not THAT bad of a shot, but i'm really really bad. i need better posture, better breath control, better sight acquiring, and a better trigger finger.

It is an ego boost but I try and helop them out if I can. I figure anyone who enjoys shooting because they are getting better is going to keep shooting and we need all of the gunowners we can get to be involved.

No, but some are cheap entertainment. The ones I enjoy are the MONEY skill folks, they get irked when someone can shoot better. The second is the puff-chest Bf, they are a real tuff guy until someone next to them can shoot. I can shoot. For comparison sake, I am an average IPSC shooter that classifies at around 45-50%. I'm a bad shot by real standards. One day I'll be good, it's only been 3.5 years since I picked up a pistol and taught myself.

To be good, I prefer to shoot around good shooters. If at the end of the day I can pick out something I did correctly better than them, that's my ego boost. When I invariably learn something new from them, that's my reward. I like getting beat in this sense, I've been on squads at matches before where I was probably the slow goat all day on that squad. I get done and I'm halfway or better up in the match standings.

The other problem with bad shooters is I want to help. I watch them and can come up with what's wrong functionally with their gun, stance trigger jerk etc. I usually keep my mouth shut. Occasionally I will get a little flinch (6" low at 25 yds) and will do some dryfire or dime drills in hopes of inspiring a monkey see-do incident. If they ask, I'll say something. Maybe I should carry printed cards that say "Help. I can't shoot" and thehighroad.org on the back. :)

Ego boost not really ,most of the shooters I shoot with at the range are better shots especially the 60 year old lady with the Colt 1911 race gun .:D

Most people just start out with too much gun. There's another thread here called "First Gun" where a newby is asking which handgun he should buy to start out with. There's already a half dozen posts urging him to buy a .357...

Is it any wonder novices shoot so badly?

It's just so difficult to master shooting if you don't start with a .22. You have to master the techniques and to do that you need to put thousands of rounds down range. It just compounds the difficulty by creating a flinch (or going broke on ammo purchases) unless you start with a .22.

Keith

I don't actually have to see some of the other shooters to feel good about myself and just a bit scared too. I look at the holes and strike marks in the cealing of the local indoor range, some not 3 yards from the firing line and am glad I'm not there to see them.:barf:

I'd be an ego booster most days. I feel good if I do minute of pie plate at 10 yards. :D Most of my shots are low left to just left with a pistol, but I "usually" can get a 5 in group up to about 15 yards with my revolver. I keep practicing, but I do better with a long gun. I wonder if site radious has something to do with some of my issues?

M. I.,

I'd guess you're flinching. Pulling low left is caused by a sudden tight "grasp" of the gun as you pull the trigger - an overcompensation for recoil - a "flinch".

Have somebody single load and hand you the gun while you shoot. Tell them that at some point you want them to hand you the gun empty without telling you.
When you dry fire that empty (expecting it to go off), you'll see the barrel jerk low and left.

The way to fix that is to do a lot of dry-firing or better yet, train with a .22 until good shooting is an ingrained muscle memory, and then step up to a larger caliber.

Every shot you take with a flinch ingrains that bad habit in just a little deeper.

Keith

I'm also a flincher myself. It's very very annoying no matter how much I work on it.

Sometimes I find myself dryfiring more than actually shooting when at the range. A good set of muffs have helped, though.

What really boosts my ego is to take someone else's weapon and then outshoot them with it! I just love the dirty looks I get! :D

Yes, bad shooters make me feel good, but if I start to feel too good the range owners 13 year grandson will start shooting.
Dang kid.
:cuss:

thisaway, when i was qualifying for CCW, this guy was complaining to me and the instructor (only two in earshot for him to talk to i guess) that his stock 1911 that was his fathers wasnt very accurate, and he thought he'd do better with a racegun like his buddy has.
his groups werent that bad (they were on paper) so i felt my chest puffing out with pride that out of my 20 shots on the silhouette, ten were in the ten-ring, 8 were in the 9, and two flyers in the 8.
lo and behold the instructor burst my bubble by taking this guys 1911 and with a one handed grip put six rounds into the same hole. not a ragged hole, the same damn hole!
thats about the time i fell to my knees and bowed saying "i'm not worthy! i'm not worthy!"
hehe.

i'm not a great shot by any means, but i can usually keep my shots within about 5 inches at 40 feet (thats all the distance the local indoor gun range has), i've never been complimented on my shooting skills by a stranger but have occasionally had someone poke thier head in my stall and ask what i'm shooting. i probably make more people feel good about their shooting than the other way around. but on occasion, someone on the range is just horrible. but their poor shooting skills are not what i notice most. what usually gets my attention is the fact that they blame their lack of accuracy on everything around them. the target was swinging back and forth, the ammo is terrible, my sights are off, my barrell warps when it heats up, the lighting in here is bad, my gun shoots bad when its dirty and i haven't cleaned it for a while, i'm not used to this gun, etc, etc, etc, ad nausium. i just want to tell them that, hey, its ok if you're not a good shot, i'm not that good a shot either, but thats why we come to the range, to practice and get better. not being a deadeye does not make you less of a man. i can't imagine all the excuses the people that work at the range all day long hear.

Bobby

Bobby,
It's easy to understand, fishermen own guns too, hence the excues.

Easy rule for anyone unless you just won some shooting related world championship. If you are getting all high on your great skills then you aren't challenging yourself. I have trouble doing it, but just tune out the little voice in your head that is worrying about what other people will think and/or hoping they will check you out. All people have at least one ego, opinion, and... Please keep all under control for a more profitable range visit and life in general. ;)