Gunman in the Mall, right now!!!!!


PDA






iamhistory
February 12, 2005, 11:03 PM
Right now as I am typing this, there is a massive LEO response taking place at our local mall and all man and vehicle exits are being blocked. It just went over the scanner that a guy brandishing a handgun just went into the "Finish Line" (like a "Footlocker") and walked around the store. A female clerk saw the guy and called for security. Security (unarmed) called for LEO backup, converged on the store and blocked exits in the store vicinity. I'm wondering what LEO response will be like since there is a local dept. actually based in the mall itself and the State Troopers HQ is about 10 minutes away at a casual driving speed.

The amazing thing is............security hung too far back to await LEO backup and now the manhunt just got bigger b/c the guy got away. They CANNOT find him even with eyewitnesses tracking his movements and feeding info via phone to security.

I'll keep my ears to the ground and see what happens. Any new info. and I'll report a.s.a.p. I'm interested to see how this one turns out. The gunman was not identified so far and they are not reporting what his motive might be.....he apparently was looking for someone but the situation is still playing out.

If you enjoyed reading about "Gunman in the Mall, right now!!!!!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
P95Carry
February 12, 2005, 11:07 PM
''Brandishing'' is enough to get the cavalry out --- report back as and when.

TrybalRage
February 12, 2005, 11:11 PM
Could this just be a case of mistaken threat? i.e. legal open carry?

I only ask because he was "just walking around the store".

taliv
February 12, 2005, 11:14 PM
heh

maybe it's the sleep deprivation, but your post reminded me of that ray stevens song about the streaker

"i was just minding my own business, looking for a size 12 birkenstock, and there he was; waving his bryco at a pair of nike air jordans. Don't look, Ethel!"

iamhistory
February 12, 2005, 11:40 PM
Trybalrage.......no mistaken id here or open carry snafu. He "was just walking around the store" with the pistol in his hand.

MICHAEL T
February 13, 2005, 12:10 AM
Maybe he lost his holster and looking for another one :D

dev_null
February 13, 2005, 12:43 AM
You know, when you say "the Mall" in caps like that, it has a different meaning for those of us in the DC area. :cool:

- 0 -

boofus
February 13, 2005, 12:55 AM
Isn't the mall posted? You know all it takes to make a criminal change his ways is a big sign. :rolleyes:

Edmond
February 13, 2005, 12:59 AM
I don't really understand the concept of unarmed security. I do understand that not every employer wants their employees to work armed for liability purposes but security should be armed.

Walter
February 13, 2005, 01:34 AM
Iamhistory,

I can't help but wonder just where in the country some nut is running around
in a mall brandishing a pistol. Can you give us a location? :confused:

Walter

Alan Fud
February 13, 2005, 02:19 AM
Man walking around in public with gun in hand :confused: can't even begin to imagine what valid excuse he could come up with :rolleyes:

carebear
February 13, 2005, 02:21 AM
He had to put the cruller in the holster or he would eat it before he found his wife.

Happens to me all the time. Except the wife part.

tony4311
February 13, 2005, 05:33 AM
<----also would like to have some clue as to where the location is.

possenti
February 13, 2005, 03:36 PM
Walking around the "Finish Line" shoe store?

The one at my local mall actually has a miniature "running track" on the floor inside the store.

Maybe it's just a starter pistol. :D

possenti
February 13, 2005, 05:57 PM
Similar story on FOX News now!

Is this in the same area? Kingston NY?

Reports of 2 or more shooters...

oscar
February 13, 2005, 06:01 PM
Radio is saying shots fired.

Bart Noir
February 13, 2005, 06:08 PM
There's over 12 hours between the events.

Bart Noir
Waiting for the rest of the story on Fox.

jobu07
February 13, 2005, 06:11 PM
If it is the same shooting that is going on as in NY, there are 8 some people hurt and our malls generally aren't posted. The only place that is illegal to carry are schools and court houses. Anyway, i heard the CLEO saying that the perp's were using "machine pistols" and that bystanders heard possible machine gun fire. If there were 3 men with automatics, some people might be easily confusing it for machine gun fire. But my god, if they do have full auto... That's very scarey. :uhoh:

Third_Rail
February 13, 2005, 06:43 PM
Yeah, they'll miss more. Woo, scary.

I'm more concerned with people who can aim over people who have FA firearms.

carebear
February 13, 2005, 07:04 PM
Third,

The problem is that when they miss their target in a confined, crowded space (shopping mall) the other bullets can tend to hit those not involved (and too slow to duck :rolleyes: ).

Sure the target is usually happy they're on rock-n-roll.

(All this, of course, assumes that they can't hit on full-auto, there are a lot of people who got taught proper trigger control for whom FA is an asset, not necessarily a hindrance. We need to quit assuming incompetence.)

molonlabe
February 13, 2005, 07:11 PM
Here we go. Fox just said it was probably an assault weapon since there were reports of rapid fire. What a bunch of pin heads.

From the lack of people killed I would suspect hanguns. Also they are saying three gunmen involved. I think I need more information though before I shoot my mouth off Fox news.

Cortland
February 13, 2005, 07:16 PM
The police spokesman said it was an "assault type rifle."

Cosmoline
February 13, 2005, 07:29 PM
Looks like you-know-who may finally have his big chance to take one in the back!

carebear
February 13, 2005, 07:31 PM
All those hours of NEF assembly are finally gonna pay off!

armoredman
February 13, 2005, 07:40 PM
Someone else who mistakes an SKS for an "assault rifle". It'll be two guys with stolen Glocks...

bogie
February 13, 2005, 07:45 PM
Any reports on perp/perps? Islamic nutcase?

dev_null
February 13, 2005, 08:16 PM
> Any reports on perp/perps? Islamic nutcase?

Yeah, coz we just have so many shootings by them in our Malls every day. :banghead:

P95Carry
February 13, 2005, 08:22 PM
Let's not have any racial references - it's neither necessary nor useful.

jamz
February 13, 2005, 08:22 PM
All those hours of NEF assembly are finally gonna pay off!

BWAHAHAHAHHAHAA

mete
February 13, 2005, 08:27 PM
It will take a while to sort things out after CNN and the like interview hysterical people and pass on many rumors. At this point ,7:00 pm Kingston NY time , there was ONE shooter [not three or four] with a 'military type' rifle who ran out of ammo and was aprehended by a store employee [Best Buy].One seriously injured who was medivaced. The whole area was in lock down ,everyone searched, and apparently every cop from miles around attended !!

The Reaper
February 13, 2005, 08:30 PM
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=2&u=/ap/mall_shooting

Latest news release.

280PLUS
February 13, 2005, 08:51 PM
Ah, the Hudson Valley Mall. I worked there occasionally in a past life.

What happened, noone there armed and prepared to return fire?

Imagine that...

:barf:

DRZinn
February 13, 2005, 09:28 PM
Fox news, during my workout, was saying two injured, one from a gunshot wound... :scrutiny: Not that low casualties is ever a problem, but what the **** was this guy really doing? Open fire in a crowded place and only wound one person?

molonlabe
February 13, 2005, 09:30 PM
Ulster Town Supervisor Fred Wadnola identified the gunman's weapon as an AK-47 assault rifle.

Are these illigal in NY State? I can't wait to see what it really was.

RavenVT100
February 13, 2005, 09:33 PM
Ar these illigal in NY State. I can't wait to see what it really was.

Well, it's kind of impossible to tell the difference between a real AK-47 and something like a SAR-1 from a great distance. But then again it might not have been anything near an AK-47. For many people, that's the only non-black military rifle they know the name of, so automatically anything that looks military and has wood on it is an AK-47.

My guess? Ruger 10/22 or Marlin 60. These are highly dangerous offensive weapons and need to be added to the new AWB pronto. ;)

carebear
February 13, 2005, 09:34 PM
Fox online said the wounded (shot in the leg) was an Army recruiter who did not appear to be the target per se. Probably just ran to the sound of the guns like he was trained.

The suspect was apparently apprehended by a Best Buy clerk after he ran dry.

Standing Wolf
February 13, 2005, 10:00 PM
When he ran out of ammunition, he was captured by mall employees, police said.

Evil and stupid both: not a highly recommended combination.

4v50 Gary
February 13, 2005, 10:05 PM
Rather humbling to be caught by a Best Buy clerk instead of the SWAT cop. :p Regardless of who caught him, I'm glad he has been stopped and is out of circulation.

Andrew Rothman
February 13, 2005, 10:33 PM
Here's the NY story

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/13/mall.shooting/index.html

Witnesses seize New York mall shooter
At least 2 people reported in hospitals

Sunday, February 13, 2005 Posted: 6:42 PM EST (2342 GMT)


(CNN) -- A gunman is in custody after opening fire Sunday afternoon and injuring at least two people at Hudson Valley Mall in upstate New York, police said.

Police said one person suffered a gunshot wound to the leg and another appeared to suffer a shrapnel or glass wound to the hand.

Beth Engeler, a spokeswoman at Albany Medical Center, said one person was being treated there and that, as of 6 p.m., authorities told her another person was on the way.

Police said the shooting appeared to be the work of a lone, male gunman who was apprehended by witnesses after running out of ammunition for his "assault-type rifle."

Authorities were interviewing witnesses to determine if anyone else was involved, said James Sottile, mayor of the nearby town of Kingston.

The large suburban mall is one of the most popular shopping centers in the area, and was crowded at the time of the shooting, Sottile said.

All the entrances were closed, said freelance reporter Jeanne Lenzer, who was at the mall.

"Police are everywhere," she said. "They're trying to make sure there are not other shooters."

The wounded person was taken by helicopter to Albany Medical Center, about an hour away, Lenzer said police told her.

Jana Decker told CNN she was at the mall with her boyfriend when they heard the shots, which sounded like fireworks.

"A few minutes later, we seen a whole mob of people coming through the mall," she said. "We turned around and ran with them."

The shooter appears to have started at one end of the mall and ended at the other, she said.

"I guess they passed just as we were running out, so I did not get to visually see them, but the shots we heard were very close."

With the mall packed with shoppers on a Sunday afternoon, "people were just tripping over each other trying to get out," she said.

Assistant Fire Chief Wayne Platte told CNN he was inside a candle shop when he saw a crowd of people running down the hall of the mall.

"It looked as though they were moving in to observe a fight, possibly," he said.

"I heard a couple of pops, gunfire," he said, adding that it sounded like automatic weapons fire. At that point, he said, he took cover behind the counter of the shop.

The mall was locked down, and store employees were taken out one at a time and loaded onto buses.

Kingston is about 87 miles north of New York City, and the mall is in a rural area just south of the Catskill Mountains in Ulster County.

Officials said there does not appear to be any link to terrorism.

CNN's Jeanne Meserve contributed to this report.

CAPTAIN MIKE
February 13, 2005, 10:37 PM
Bad Guy is in Custody. Apparently when he ran out of ammunition, he dropped his weapon on the mall floor, raised his hands and -- GET THIS -- he surrendered to a janitor for crying out loud.

280PLUS
February 13, 2005, 10:43 PM
A mall full of people and he hits only 2?

Very strange.

I'm glad he WAS stupid enough to run out of ammo. It could've been much worse.

Maybe he just wanted to shoot up the mall and the wounded got in the way. I also would venture a guess that the recruiter was headed in the direction of the gunfire. Last I heard he was critical.

spacemanspiff
February 13, 2005, 11:02 PM
I don't really understand the concept of unarmed security. I do understand that not every employer wants their employees to work armed for liability purposes but security should be armed.
i disagree. unarmed rent-a-boobs are bad enough. those predisposed to become rent-a-boobs almost always have personality disorders.

i know, some amongst THR are in the employ of 'private security', but to me, the entire concept is an abomination, fueled by the cowardice of the citizen that refuses to take the responsibility of his/her own security into their own hands, but would rather pay someone else to do it for them.

mete
February 13, 2005, 11:12 PM
He only hit one who was not even aimed at .The other injury is non gun related. Apparently still in lock down 7 hours later !!! Ran out of ammo - always carry enough ammo .

Cortland
February 13, 2005, 11:18 PM
Ran out of ammo - always carry enough ammo

Enough for what, exactly? :confused:

Ky Larry
February 13, 2005, 11:18 PM
They should have called Mall Ninja Security, Inc. :rolleyes:

kikilee
February 14, 2005, 12:16 AM
Thank God no one was killed.

MICHAEL T
February 14, 2005, 12:53 AM
I bet hillary has a AWB bill ready to go. This is what they want . These attacks around country so they can say we told you and the new one will last forever not 10 years.

Sergeant Sabre
February 14, 2005, 12:54 AM
So, I guess Mall Ninja was undercover as a Best Buy clerk today?

saltydog
February 14, 2005, 08:25 AM
From all the hipe I hear from "So called Chief of Police's" is how devistating these weapons are so let me try to understand this. A guy uses a "so called Assault Weapon" in a mall and there is no "loss of limbs" or "loss of life?" :rolleyes:

jobu07
February 14, 2005, 08:33 AM
Apparently the one wounded in the leg may lose it. Never a good situation. If anyone remembers, I posted a news story up here late last month about a northern PA gun store being jacked for over a 100 pistols and rifles. I wonder what the chances are of this guy's weapon being among those stolen? If it was a stolen weapon, at least it'l give the legal gun owners a little bit of breathing room.

DRZinn
February 14, 2005, 11:36 AM
I don't thnink it's possible to shoot correctly, even if badly, in that type of situation and miss that much. I think the guy was shooting from the hip. Which would support the idea that it wasn't his gun.

sturmruger
February 14, 2005, 11:45 AM
Was this two seperate instances or is it one and the same? Where do you lice Iamhistory?

GhostRider-Nine
February 14, 2005, 12:21 PM
Let's not have any racial references - it's neither necessary nor useful.

Yes lets never forget that not all muslims are terrorists....but we should also keep in mind that most terrorists are muslims.

Andrew Rothman
February 14, 2005, 12:30 PM
This morning's AP story:
KINGSTON, N.Y. -- As a man opened fire in a crowded shopping mall, wounding two people and sending shoppers scrambling for safety, a mall worker said he made a ``split-second decision'' to follow the gunman.

``People were just running out of the stores, ducking behind anything they could find - screaming, kids were screaming, everybody running,'' Keith Lazarchik told ABC's ``Good Morning America'' today.

``It was basically just a split-second decision,'' Lazarchik said. ``I didn't approach him right away. I just followed him. I was creeping up behind him as he was walking down the mall shooting.''

When the gunman, identified by police as Robert Bonelli, ran out of ammunition and dropped his assault-type rifle, Lazarchik lunged for the gun and two of his co-workers tackled the gunman.

``He was standing there with his hands in the air and we just grabbed him and sat on him until police came,'' said Phil Dudek, a co-worker of Lazarchik's at Dick's Sporting Goods.

...

I would never second-guess this brave man, but, um, doesn't Dick's sell guns?

mete
February 14, 2005, 01:11 PM
He had a fascination with Columbine !! Photos of Columbine were found in his home.

molonlabe
February 14, 2005, 03:26 PM
http://www.midhudsonnews.com/News/Ulster_shooting-update2-14Feb05.htm

So is this the weapon??


http://www.ak-47.net/ak47/hesse47.html

mbs357
February 14, 2005, 03:37 PM
Sounds like a crappy gun. Glad the bad guys have poor hardware.

petrel800
February 14, 2005, 03:49 PM
Any reports on perp/perps? Islamic nutcase?

Let's not have any racial references - it's neither necessary nor useful.

This may be nit picky, but there is nothing racial about this statement. Islamic and muslim are religious terms. Not racial terms.

Be careful with the use of the words race and racist. Quite frankly the misuse of these words leeds to rampent Political Correctness.

P95Carry
February 14, 2005, 03:54 PM
True - there are the two terms. However, tho it may seem rather PC to mention it as I did - the problem arises thru the implied meaning, as many see it... plus when added to ..nutcase'' ... I actually hate PC these days but here I think we have to still be careful.... trying not have a boat rocked! :)

LiquidTension
February 14, 2005, 05:43 PM
Hesse Model 47, 7.62 x 339mm assault rifle

Wow, that projectile must have some massive speed behind it, what with the case being 339mm long and all.

aguyindallas
February 14, 2005, 06:00 PM
Not to take anything away from another gun related whack job tragedy, but seriously think for a second.

If gun laws are so strict in NY, how in the world would something like this happen.

Gun control just doesnt work, or this would not have happened.

carebear
February 14, 2005, 06:03 PM
NY State and NYC are two different critters gun-wise.

This was upstate, not in the city, the Sullivan Act does not apply.

Crazy, however, knows no boundaries.

Cortland
February 14, 2005, 07:47 PM
I would never second-guess this brave man, but, um, doesn't Dick's sell guns?
Dick's sells politically correct guns. No handguns, no "assault type rifles," nothing with a pistol grip, etc. It sounds like nobody there would've had time to ready a weapon as I don't imagine they keep any sitting around loaded.

Dick's also (last I heard) requires you to inform them whenever you bring a gun into the store (includes CCW -- not sure if they allow or disallow once you "inform them."). A representative from Dick's spoke at our local gun club some months ago and explained the policy to us -- we only very narrowly avoided what was quickly turning into a lynch mob.

mete
February 14, 2005, 10:28 PM
Carebear, the Sullivan law is a state law but of course NYC has additional laws. And speaking of laws our Senator Schumer has been very busy today calling for a renewal of the AWB !! But nobody is surprised about that .

BluesBear
February 14, 2005, 10:43 PM
Assisting Ulster Town Police were State Police,Kingston City Police, Ulster County Sheriff's office, New York City En Con Police, the Ulster, Kingston , State Police and New York City DEP emergency response teams along with Dutchess County Sheriff's Office, Federal ATF,Police from New Paltz, Saugerties, Lloyd, Ellenville, Woodstock, Rosendale, Olive, Shandaken and a number of emergency services agencies. DANG!

Did anyone NOT show up?








I heard that Cinnabon had to call in two extra shifts.

shfttrsh
February 14, 2005, 10:49 PM
Spacemanspiff-
As one who spent four summers doing Security at a theme park during college (I have a B.A. in Political Sience), 3.5 years as a Mall Security officer (three as Asst. Chief) after graduation, and have since been employed as a Security Officer at a Nuclear Power Plant for 21 years, where I am required to take a pychological test every few years to insure that I haven't developed any "personality disorders" (and I make more than the Chief of most of the local police depts.) I feel a little offended my your blanket comment. Private Security includes nightwatchman that may or not wake-up to call in a fire, bullies with a badge that should be in therapy, and all the way thru the range of human personality.
I generally do not comment to the Mall Ninja threads because they are humorous, there are people like that out there and I have better things to be concerned about. It is true that people should take responsibility for their own security but in some cases that is not possible, it is also not possible for the police to be everywhere. Some want a increased level of protection and they are willing to pay for it. We provide a service and provide for our families just like everyone else.
Sorry but that was a little stronger than I could take without comment.
WFM

Stand_Watie
February 14, 2005, 11:36 PM
Spacemanspiff-
As one who spent four summers doing Security at a theme park during college (I have a B.A. in Political Sience), 3.5 years as a Mall Security officer (three as Asst. Chief) after graduation, and have since been employed as a Security Officer at a Nuclear Power Plant for 21 years, where I am required to take a pychological test every few years to insure that I haven't developed any "personality disorders" (and I make more than the Chief of most of the local police depts.) I feel a little offended my your blanket comment. Private Security includes nightwatchman that may or not wake-up to call in a fire, bullies with a badge that should be in therapy, and all the way thru the range of human personality

I spent ten years in private security. It attracts enough jokers and idiots that making fun of "rent-a-cops" has a large enough kernel of truth in it that it can be understandable if intended in good good humor. For every joker or idiot though, there is a youngster on their way to a rewarding law enforcement career, a military retiree transitioning to civilian life, a senior citizen supplementing a pension or just a guy like me that is just trying to keep a roof over my families head and food on the table.

By far the biggest contributor to idiots in private security is simply low pay and training. You get what you pay for, and the vast majority of private security companies are following the "lowest bidder" mentality. Guys who don't have a job worth worrying about losing don't worry about losing it. This issue could be entirely alleviated by private security using the same pay schedules and training responsibilities incorporated at your power plant.

i disagree. unarmed rent-a-boobs are bad enough. those predisposed to become rent-a-boobs almost always have personality disorders

I agree with you that this is a dramatic overstatment. I'd say less than 20% of private security officers have personality disorders larger than liking to work a low effort/low pay job.

Brian Dale
February 14, 2005, 11:40 PM
OK, maybe I'm just slow...

Guy starts shooting inside a mall.

Authorities lock everyone inside so that the guy who's shooting can't get away.

This means that the guy then has a maximum of, oh, "only" a couple of thousand people in danger. Locked in the mall with him. Men, women and children. Locked inside, together with the guy who's shooting.

Am I wrong to see this as a BIG problem?

Selfdfenz
February 15, 2005, 12:35 AM
Happy Bob,

My thoughts exactly.

S-

carebear
February 15, 2005, 04:31 AM
mete, thanks for the correction. I thought Sullivan was a local thing to ensure Tweed's dominance in town, didn't realize it was statewide.

280PLUS
February 15, 2005, 08:35 AM
I've coined a phrase that seems to fit the incident and all those like it.

"Fox in the Henhouse Syndrome"

Which is just about what you have when you loose an armed nutjob into a crowded area almost anywhere anytime.

Especially when there is no escape.

One of the cable news medias is saying he fired 50 to 60 rounds.

If I was able to keep my presence of mind and had the opportunity I think Dicks might have had a nice semi auto in a deer caliber I could have "borrowed" just for the moment, of course that would have taken time. Pistol grips don't make them much deadlier. But first I would have had to check the mall map and find Dick's...

:rolleyes:

The guy who was sneaking up behind him had the right idea, now if he'd only had a (insert favorite CCW here).

:banghead:

carnaby
February 15, 2005, 09:42 PM
wow, this thread got hijacked pretty quick.

Any news on the original "guy with gun in shoe store" that started it all?

280PLUS
February 16, 2005, 07:47 AM
"Guy in the shoestore" was the preliminary info which later turned into man shooting up the mall, so the thread followed the info as it became available.

LoadedDrum
February 16, 2005, 08:17 AM
Dick's spoke at our local gun club some months ago and explained the policy to us -- we only very narrowly avoided what was quickly turning into a lynch mob.

If it did, my money would still be on your crew vs. the lynch mob. :)

38SnubFan
February 16, 2005, 09:08 AM
security hung too far back to await LEO backup From the perspective of a mall public safety supervisor and that of my boss (who is also a veteran LEO), the answer to why security hung back so far is two fold:

-You do not want to come up on a scenario where you cannot meet the threat with an equal level of force. You're simply asking to get yourself killed if you do. Then you have an officer down, possibly dead. What good does that do?

-By being unarmed and dealing with a "man with a gun situation," you do not want a huddle of officers "ganging up" on the suspect. If the suspect is a mental case or agitated, too many guys in uniform could be enough to aggrivate him to the point of a shooting spree.


I don't really understand the concept of unarmed security. I do understand that not every employer wants their employees to work armed for liability purposes but security should be armed. I agree that security should be armed, or at least have some type of "use-of-force" option. My boss is currently attempting to seek OC spray and Taser for our mall, albeit it probably wont be anything immediate. Armed mall security has two disadvantages, both to the mall environment and to the mall management that has to pay for it. They are:

-Armed security costs more than unarmed. A LOT MORE!

-Customers seeing a bunch of guys in uniform with guns patrolling the mall sends a signal that the mall isn't a safe place, therefore pushing customers away to a different place to shop.


i disagree. unarmed rent-a-boobs are bad enough. those predisposed to become rent-a-boobs almost always have personality disorders. First off, the name calling isn't necessary. Jeff White (THR Moderator) has made it clear in Strategies & Tactics that flaming someone based on their profession is not to be tolerated. However humorous (and I've laughed at some of the jokes myself), it's wrong. I work hard and take pride in my job, just like you take pride in the job you do. I'm not the "ninja" type and I don't try to act like something I'm not. As far as personality disorders go, I undergo a criminal background check AND a personality profile exam in order to be hired by my company. I'd appreciate it if you do not flame my profession, as I will not flame yours, even if you're nothing more than a burger-flipper at the local fast-food joint.


i know, some amongst THR are in the employ of 'private security', but to me, the entire concept is an abomination, fueled by the cowardice of the citizen that refuses to take the responsibility of his/her own security into their own hands, but would rather pay someone else to do it for them. Some of those "cowards" are the elderly and handicapped who don't have the strength, wits, or other abilities to defend and protect themselves. That's why I do what I do, and I enjoy/take pride in it. Thus, your statement is, in my opinion, an abomination in itself. Do you think I would call a burger-flipper's occupation an abomination? I most certainly will not, as someone's got to make that Wendy's Triple I get the occasional craving for.

Before opening the mouth, one should first be opening the mind.

-38SnubFan

carebear
February 16, 2005, 03:28 PM
Plus, mall security is there, primarily, to keep the place "shoppable", not merely "safe".

Who wants to deal with the chaos that would ensue if those idiot teen hanger-outer's weren't held in check by some sort of authority? (and no, in the real world, that can't be "us" and apparently will never be their "parents")

The not dangerous but annoying psycho bum who walks around panhandling? The wanna-be tough guys intimidating women and decent people but not actually breakling any law or crossing the line to where a response is justified? What about intimidating and apprehending shoplifters, is the 16 yr old girl at Sunglass Hut gonna do that?

If they weren't necessary, be sure that Mall's and other businesses wouldn't pay for them. Security has a job to do, and they put up with more crap on a daily basis without wigging-out and busting skulls than I could take in a week. Give 'em a break.

spacemanspiff
February 16, 2005, 04:26 PM
i apologize, my comment wasnt meant to offend.
my statement was made based on my personal experience in dealing with 'private security'. as you all know, everyone up here in alaska is just a little bit nuttier than in the lower 48, so my statement probably doesnt fit the rest of the nation.

unfortunately the job pool up here doesnt have a springboard into military or law enforcement from the private security arena. many of our malls/theaters that employ private security (both armed and unarmed) have had their employees for several years. they are often the ones with denied applications to the law enforcement world.

it sounds like in the states, the options are much greater, turnover rates are better, and it offers more potential for those dedicated to their work. over the last 2 years there has been more than 10 instances where the private security guard that 'secures' the office building i work at has been left completely unlocked, even after the guard has come by twice in his rounds. entrances are left completely open, elevators not locked down, etc.
it has been so bad that the building manager herself will stop by the building to make sure they are doing their job right.
we have seen the new hires at the range to qualify for carrying their issued hipoint handguns. i have heard one new hire ask when filling out the paperwork prior to qualifying "this question about being convicted of a felony, whats exactly a 'felony'?"

so my experiences have been negative. but even if they were positive, i still am disheartened that the majority of people in this country still want to rely on someone else to protect them.

If you enjoyed reading about "Gunman in the Mall, right now!!!!!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!